Tenn. Lottery players complaining over switch from numbered balls

Aug 8, 2007, 3:44 pm (50 comments)

Tennessee Lottery

Thanks to the Tennessee Lottery's unilateral decision to abandon traditional lottery drawings using numbered balls to pick the winning numbers on television, many players have decided to stop playing.

The Tennessee Lottery now has computers generate random numbers instead of the player-preferred televised drawings.

Lottery officials say the new system is as secure as the old one. Many players don't like the change, though.

"I don't trust the computerized drawings," said Nashville resident Richard Brymer, 51. "Possibly someone could do something to compromise the computerized drawings.

Brymer said he quit playing state lottery games when he found out about the lottery commission's decision to switch to computerized drawings. He continues playing Powerball because it still uses live drawings.

"I'd rather see the drawings live because of the excitement of the live drawings," he said.

The lottery began using computers to generate random numbers on July 28 for all of its lottery games, including Cash 3, Cash 4 and Lotto 5.

Lottery spokeswoman Kym Gerlock said the lottery changed the drawings to keep up with changing technology and industry trends. Twelve other state lotteries use computerized drawings, she said.

Gerlock says the lottery has received some complaints about the new system, though lottery officials hope players will eventually accept the new technology.

She said two computers at the lottery's headquarters act as random number generators, and the computers are videotaped and overseen by security.

"The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance," she said. "There's no reason to doubt these drawings or question the integrity of how we do the drawings."

AP

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KyMystikal's avatarKyMystikal

More people need to boycott the lottery. I also don't see what taping a computer picking the numbers is really doing???? I'm like Richard, I only play Powerball in TN because it is live and no tax in TN.

tnlotto1's avatartnlotto1

word is finally getting around this state so the players can wake up and realize whats happening and ask the lottery to change back to true drawings.

qutgnt

I love how a having a tv show and having balls is such a drag on the lotteries profits. Poor Lottery with its 50% payouts and the tax it keeps on the winnings.

DoubleDown

"There's no reason to doubt these drawings or question the integrity of how we do the drawings."

 

She should have added : " And anyone that questions us can just kiss our you know whats..."

Bradly_60's avatarBradly_60

I know everyone doesn't like computerized drawings...well it seems that way anyway.

But one thought, balls can just as easily be manipulated as a computer.  Different weights, different sizes, doesn't anyone remember the PA story of the 80's I believe.  I do think there is way to much emphasis on this non-computerized drawing kick. 

Someone should do a statistical analysis on drawings that are made by computers and ones that are done with balls.  I bet there won't be a difference and if there is then I would be a believer against computer drawings as well.

Brad 

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Bradly_60 on Aug 8, 2007

I know everyone doesn't like computerized drawings...well it seems that way anyway.

But one thought, balls can just as easily be manipulated as a computer.  Different weights, different sizes, doesn't anyone remember the PA story of the 80's I believe.  I do think there is way to much emphasis on this non-computerized drawing kick. 

Someone should do a statistical analysis on drawings that are made by computers and ones that are done with balls.  I bet there won't be a difference and if there is then I would be a believer against computer drawings as well.

Brad 

No.  Traditional drawings cannot be just as easily -- or as thoroughly -- manipulated as computerized drawings can.

If you read my postings (or a dozen other peoples') on this subject over the past month you would understand.

You can't SEE what is happening in a computer.  There are infinite more ways that a computer could screw up the drawing.

Let's take, for example, a drawing screw-up.  Everyone has seen a YouTube or Google video of lottery balls falling all over the floor when a drawing gets screwed up.   The lottery folks get red-faced in embarrassment, and the drawing needs to be reset.  But at least everyone can clearly see that an error has happened, and people are forgiving of these things, because it's only natural that things occasionally break.

However, computers are a different story.  How exactly can anyone even SEE that the drawing was screwed up, when it all takes place in a computer?  The fact is that nobody can see it, and it is well-documented here on Lottery Post how buggy drawings have gone on for MONTHS before anyone noticed.  And even then it was caught by a PLAYER, not by the lottery.

Fans of the lottery -- people who enjoy playing the games every day -- don't want computerized drawings.  Period.  They want real lottery drawings.

Rick G's avatarRick G

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Aug 8, 2007

No.  Traditional drawings cannot be just as easily -- or as thoroughly -- manipulated as computerized drawings can.

If you read my postings (or a dozen other peoples') on this subject over the past month you would understand.

You can't SEE what is happening in a computer.  There are infinite more ways that a computer could screw up the drawing.

Let's take, for example, a drawing screw-up.  Everyone has seen a YouTube or Google video of lottery balls falling all over the floor when a drawing gets screwed up.   The lottery folks get red-faced in embarrassment, and the drawing needs to be reset.  But at least everyone can clearly see that an error has happened, and people are forgiving of these things, because it's only natural that things occasionally break.

However, computers are a different story.  How exactly can anyone even SEE that the drawing was screwed up, when it all takes place in a computer?  The fact is that nobody can see it, and it is well-documented here on Lottery Post how buggy drawings have gone on for MONTHS before anyone noticed.  And even then it was caught by a PLAYER, not by the lottery.

Fans of the lottery -- people who enjoy playing the games every day -- don't want computerized drawings.  Period.  They want real lottery drawings.

A-Men!

Kudos to the TN players for boycotting the drawings.  The only way they'll listen is when it affects profits.

Don't give in, don't buy.

Uncle Jim

BOYCOTT!  BOYCOTT!  BOYCOTT!

What's most amazing to me is how the Lottery's in general don't care what their players want or don't want.  They hope that after the initial flood of bad opinion people will come to accept their decision to go RNG.

I think you guys and gals in Tennessee should mount a serious grass roots campaign against the RNG and adopt Rick G's slogan until they give in:

Dont' give in, don't buy!

Jim 

jarasan's avatarjarasan

I have another acronym for RNG "Really Not a Game".

 

 Burn baby burn.

MADDOG10's avatarMADDOG10

AMEN Tennessee, keep the presure on DO NOT buy lottery tickets. It's hitting them where it hurts the most, their pockets - not yours.

Kudos to all of you..............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  KEEP BOYCOTTING.

What difference doe's it make if you videotape a computerized drawing, it can still be fixed before the taping. Don't fall for their line of crap...!

DoubleDown

RNG = Really No Good

LOTTOMIKE's avatarLOTTOMIKE

my girlfriend who knows nothing period about the lottery asked me if i saw the new tennessee lottery drawings on the new station they moved the draws to.i asked why and she said the drawing looked really 'fake'.now thats bad coming from someone who knows nothing about the lottery.tennessee is really screwing up.

GASMETERGUY

Quote: Originally posted by Bradly_60 on Aug 8, 2007

I know everyone doesn't like computerized drawings...well it seems that way anyway.

But one thought, balls can just as easily be manipulated as a computer.  Different weights, different sizes, doesn't anyone remember the PA story of the 80's I believe.  I do think there is way to much emphasis on this non-computerized drawing kick. 

Someone should do a statistical analysis on drawings that are made by computers and ones that are done with balls.  I bet there won't be a difference and if there is then I would be a believer against computer drawings as well.

Brad 

Bradly

     I accept as a fact that there exists a big difference between ball drawn and computer picked.

     I have been tracking several states which have either one or the other and I can see from my data, my patterns, that RNG is much more random than ball drawn.  While my "proof" will not measure up to the "smoking gun" concept, what I see has me completely convinced a difference exists. 

     I am not attempting to convince anyone else, tho.  What anyone chooses to believe is their business.  I just hate the fact I have to go back to day one with the Tennessee Lotto.  If Kentucky had a P5 game, I would play up there for while.  Instead, I am switching to Powerball.

spy153's avatarspy153

Quote: Originally posted by jarasan on Aug 8, 2007

I have another acronym for RNG "Really Not a Game".

 

 Burn baby burn.

Green laugh

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by GASMETERGUY on Aug 9, 2007

Bradly

     I accept as a fact that there exists a big difference between ball drawn and computer picked.

     I have been tracking several states which have either one or the other and I can see from my data, my patterns, that RNG is much more random than ball drawn.  While my "proof" will not measure up to the "smoking gun" concept, what I see has me completely convinced a difference exists. 

     I am not attempting to convince anyone else, tho.  What anyone chooses to believe is their business.  I just hate the fact I have to go back to day one with the Tennessee Lotto.  If Kentucky had a P5 game, I would play up there for while.  Instead, I am switching to Powerball.

Excellent post.

How about looking at the differences from a different angle though?

Perhaps it is the ball drawings that are more random, with natural patterns that are the beauty of randomness in nature.  Perhaps it is the computer that is falsely eliminating any type of natural patterns.  Or for very poor RNGs, it has a bad sequence of numbers.

That's right, low-end RNGs, which have been used at some state lotteries (that's a fact), consist of a finite number of number sequences that appear to be random, but as you now know, are not really random.

ToadSchmode's avatarToadSchmode

Since Tenn went "RNG" (2 weeks ago)  there has been "NO DOUBLES" drawn in any of the Pick 3 or pick 4 draws. This is random????  It's very rare for a pick 4 game to go even 5 days without a double in it. Wonder how long it'll take'em to realize it?

tnlotto1's avatartnlotto1

Quote: Originally posted by ToadSchmode on Aug 11, 2007

Since Tenn went "RNG" (2 weeks ago)  there has been "NO DOUBLES" drawn in any of the Pick 3 or pick 4 draws. This is random????  It's very rare for a pick 4 game to go even 5 days without a double in it. Wonder how long it'll take'em to realize it?

actually someone else told me that and they were trying to win it before the lottery realized it and changed it so doubles will start showing up. when they read your post they will find a way to get the computer to change it up and toss in some doubles so no one will have a chance to predict it and win.

ToadSchmode's avatarToadSchmode

Quote: Originally posted by tnlotto1 on Aug 11, 2007

actually someone else told me that and they were trying to win it before the lottery realized it and changed it so doubles will start showing up. when they read your post they will find a way to get the computer to change it up and toss in some doubles so no one will have a chance to predict it and win.

 "when they read your post they will find a way to get the computer to change it up"   if you really believe what you said, that alone should be enough to tell you and your someone else, it's not random, and is, human controlled or influenced. This just adds to the reasons not to play RNG draws.  But if you or your someone else must play, don't try to push blame on a "post" as to why you lose. Your playing a stacked game.

KyMystikal's avatarKyMystikal

Quote: Originally posted by ToadSchmode on Aug 12, 2007

 "when they read your post they will find a way to get the computer to change it up"   if you really believe what you said, that alone should be enough to tell you and your someone else, it's not random, and is, human controlled or influenced. This just adds to the reasons not to play RNG draws.  But if you or your someone else must play, don't try to push blame on a "post" as to why you lose. Your playing a stacked game.

doesn't look like they read the posts here. I have sent them a email asking if they were having a computer problem and if that was the reason no double has fell in any draw since they went to RNG.

KyMystikal's avatarKyMystikal

Quote: Originally posted by KyMystikal on Aug 15, 2007

doesn't look like they read the posts here. I have sent them a email asking if they were having a computer problem and if that was the reason no double has fell in any draw since they went to RNG.

By the way, here is a copy of the email I sent them. I hope I get a reply since I never got a reply back when they first announced that they were changing the lottery format. If I get a reply I will post it.

 

 

I would like to know if there is a problem with the computer that draws the lottery numbers? Every since you(Tennessee Lottery) have switched the way the numbers are chosen there hasn't been a double digit come out in ANY draw. I know that the drawings are supposed to be random but it is highly unlikely that no double would fall in any draw in 18 days.

bond10

What other states have computerized drawings.

onenumber's avataronenumber

If you click on RESULTS -- then State Lottery Report Card you will see the states with computerized drawings.

tnlotto1's avatartnlotto1

Quote: Originally posted by ToadSchmode on Aug 12, 2007

 "when they read your post they will find a way to get the computer to change it up"   if you really believe what you said, that alone should be enough to tell you and your someone else, it's not random, and is, human controlled or influenced. This just adds to the reasons not to play RNG draws.  But if you or your someone else must play, don't try to push blame on a "post" as to why you lose. Your playing a stacked game.

i wasnt blaming your post for anyone losing the lottery toadschmode i was agreeing with you that rng is not random and i thought they would show how fixed it is by having some doubles suddenly drop out of nowhere but i guess they still havent fallen. if you go back over my other posts from the past you will see im against rng and i never wanted tennessee to get it.

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by KyMystikal on Aug 15, 2007

By the way, here is a copy of the email I sent them. I hope I get a reply since I never got a reply back when they first announced that they were changing the lottery format. If I get a reply I will post it.

 

 

I would like to know if there is a problem with the computer that draws the lottery numbers? Every since you(Tennessee Lottery) have switched the way the numbers are chosen there hasn't been a double digit come out in ANY draw. I know that the drawings are supposed to be random but it is highly unlikely that no double would fall in any draw in 18 days.

"it is highly unlikely that no double would fall in any draw in 18 days."

Aw so that's what they meant about "an exciting new way to draw". Has anybody in Tennessee wrote a letter to the editor of a newspaper explaining the integrity of the draws might be questioned because player can't see the live mechanics of their draw?

After 18 draws without a double, a follow-up "I told you so" letter to the editor could have been written. And when the doubles start showing a "I rest my case" letter could be sent.

States have always used RNGs to distribute QPs but that has no affect on numbers being drawn from a keno/bingo ball style of machine. All the state lotteries know exactly what's being bet on any combination and that should be reason enough to have live ball machine drawings. It's not about having to see the live draw everyday, just knowing draw is above reproach.

We're always reading or hearing about players being underpaid by clerks or how certain areas of some states have more jackpot winners than others. Why a state lottery would want to switch to a drawing style that invites more questions about cheating is beyond me.

BaristaExpress's avatarBaristaExpress

Hey people, wake-up and smell the MONEY! Yes, I said Money! The states that have RNG drawings are able to keep more of the money from all the suckers that play their RNG games! Yes, I said suckers. Face it people, if you have less winners in the state run RNG games, the state KEEPS more of the money bet in those games! RNG lottery machines were invented for the sole purpose of generating more revenue for the state run lotteries!

If at all possible those of you who used to play the pick3 and pick4 ball drawn games and won on some what of a regular cycle, I'm glad for you. But now your state went to a RNG machine, stop playing the pick3 and 4 games and tell everyone you know not to play and watch the state see it's revenue decline. No one likes to play a game that doesn't pay back the player to some degree (some wins are better than no wins for long stretches).

KyMystikal's avatarKyMystikal

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Aug 15, 2007

"it is highly unlikely that no double would fall in any draw in 18 days."

Aw so that's what they meant about "an exciting new way to draw". Has anybody in Tennessee wrote a letter to the editor of a newspaper explaining the integrity of the draws might be questioned because player can't see the live mechanics of their draw?

After 18 draws without a double, a follow-up "I told you so" letter to the editor could have been written. And when the doubles start showing a "I rest my case" letter could be sent.

States have always used RNGs to distribute QPs but that has no affect on numbers being drawn from a keno/bingo ball style of machine. All the state lotteries know exactly what's being bet on any combination and that should be reason enough to have live ball machine drawings. It's not about having to see the live draw everyday, just knowing draw is above reproach.

We're always reading or hearing about players being underpaid by clerks or how certain areas of some states have more jackpot winners than others. Why a state lottery would want to switch to a drawing style that invites more questions about cheating is beyond me.

Here is the TN lottery's response to my email.

 

Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.
The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.
For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.
We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn.

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by KyMystikal on Aug 16, 2007

Here is the TN lottery's response to my email.

 

Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.
The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.
For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.
We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn.

"The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings."

The best way of insuring integrity is to have a live draw the players can see. They are asking the players to rely on the integrity of an unknown computer programmer.

"The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state. "

It's not the integrity of the games that is in question; it's the integrity of the way the numbers are drawn. Their goal is to maximize dollars and they don't want the players to see the drawings. That sounds more like an extreme measure to throw integrity out the window.

"We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn."

They said "security and integrity of our games is of the utmost importance" yet they waited until players questioned the integrity before their security staff got involved. They could have had the janitor or anybody run test draws and get the same results.

They should put "play at own risk" on each lottery terminal.

BaristaExpress's avatarBaristaExpress

The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.

There you have it in a nut shell! Less winners, less to payout, More for the State!

Looks like the Almighty buck wins hands down! But really think about it, does the money really go to the Education Fund or is it being diverted to some other program or someones pocket? Most states cover education through property taxes and a few other taxes, but has the property taxes in Tenn gone down any or have they gone up ever so slightly as not to set of any bells or whistles? And if the lowering of the property taxes hasn't happen, I think the people of Tenn need to call for an audit of the state education fund and the lottery to find out where the money has really gone too!

Just6ntlc

I just don't like games being computerized.

tnlotto1's avatartnlotto1

Quote: Originally posted by BaristaExpress on Aug 16, 2007

The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.

There you have it in a nut shell! Less winners, less to payout, More for the State!

Looks like the Almighty buck wins hands down! But really think about it, does the money really go to the Education Fund or is it being diverted to some other program or someones pocket? Most states cover education through property taxes and a few other taxes, but has the property taxes in Tenn gone down any or have they gone up ever so slightly as not to set of any bells or whistles? And if the lowering of the property taxes hasn't happen, I think the people of Tenn need to call for an audit of the state education fund and the lottery to find out where the money has really gone too!

the state raised the gpa required to get the lottery scholarship because they were giving away so much money because so many people qualified at first. i dont know where the extra money they saved when they raised the gpa's goes now but im sure rebecca paul will never tell us players

noahproblem

"We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn."

KyMystikal, tell them (politely, of course) to put this in their pipe and smoke it - as of this afternoon (8/16) there have been 36 consecutive computerized pick 4 drawings with no multiple digits (38 total counting the last 2 ball draws on 7/27).  According to my calculations the odds on this happening are approx. 51 1/2 billion to one!

There are 5040 out of 10000 4-digit combos with no repeats, giving a .5040 chance of 1 drawing with no repeats (IOW, just slightly better than a coin flip).  Raise that to the 36th power and you get 0.00000000001938649565, or 1 chance in  51,582,298,218.11.

 The odds will approximately double with each successive drawing that does not contain a multiple.

 I've heard that Tennessee's a nice place to visit (I've never been there myself), but I sure wouldn't bet my money there.

ToadSchmode's avatarToadSchmode

Quote: Originally posted by tnlotto1 on Aug 15, 2007

i wasnt blaming your post for anyone losing the lottery toadschmode i was agreeing with you that rng is not random and i thought they would show how fixed it is by having some doubles suddenly drop out of nowhere but i guess they still havent fallen. if you go back over my other posts from the past you will see im against rng and i never wanted tennessee to get it.

Sorry must have read it wrong! I was only trying to alert Tenn players what was happening so they don't waste they're time and money. I really don't believe they read the post's here and then go tweak the computer. But i do believe that RNG draws are set up for max profit with  min payout. And with the total "BS" going on with Tenn draws right now shows that a RNG system can be flawed or fixed. I don't think there's ever been, in any state, this many draws in a pick 3 & 4 without a double digit. And i know that they know they have a serious problem right now and i'm sure they're scrambling to correct it, and in the process trying to pacify the players that all is well when it isn't.

four4me

I'm not even from Tennessee and I'm flipping mad. They haven't drawn a double number since they started using the RNG system in either pick 3 or 4 games.

They are ripping off the people of Tennessee every day i have sent several emails to them explaining about rng systems and i keep getting replies that they are aware of it but that they have checked the rng system and it's working fine. It's like they refuse to believe that it's impossible for them to be wrong.

They insist that their equipment is working perfectly. They have so far refuse to answer my last email. Which had links to other states who use rng's and for them to check the numbers history of both games in 3 different states so they can see for themselves that rng do produce doubles on average of 33% of the time.

Well Tennesseans you need to call the attorney general and complain about this happening.

Call the news media call someone but don't bother to call the Tennessee lottery cause they don't care.  

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by four4me on Aug 17, 2007

I'm not even from Tennessee and I'm flipping mad. They haven't drawn a double number since they started using the RNG system in either pick 3 or 4 games.

They are ripping off the people of Tennessee every day i have sent several emails to them explaining about rng systems and i keep getting replies that they are aware of it but that they have checked the rng system and it's working fine. It's like they refuse to believe that it's impossible for them to be wrong.

They insist that their equipment is working perfectly. They have so far refuse to answer my last email. Which had links to other states who use rng's and for them to check the numbers history of both games in 3 different states so they can see for themselves that rng do produce doubles on average of 33% of the time.

Well Tennesseans you need to call the attorney general and complain about this happening.

Call the news media call someone but don't bother to call the Tennessee lottery cause they don't care.  

I'm not from Tennessee either, but I'm sending the results of this "exciting new way to draw" to my state's lottery commission so they can see how quickly they could lose their credibility and invite charges of fraud, founded or not by switching to a RNG drawing. Copies will be sent to my state representative and senator too.

JimmySand9

Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Aug 20, 2007

I'm not from Tennessee either, but I'm sending the results of this "exciting new way to draw" to my state's lottery commission so they can see how quickly they could lose their credibility and invite charges of fraud, founded or not by switching to a RNG drawing. Copies will be sent to my state representative and senator too.

Sorry, this won't hold up in court. No judge, lottery director, representative, senator, or governor cares about whether or not doubles have been drawn. The only people who care are people like you, the ones who track this stuff and try to predict numbers. The kind of people, like I have said, the lottery doesn't want playing. They don't want people who are looking for an edge, because someday, they just might find it, if they haven't already. 

In layman's terms : you're gonna need a better argument than "there aren't no doubles in the pick 4". 

four4me

Well Tenn lotto still continues to state that drawing from other states have no bearing on drawings from Tennessee. Regardless of number histories of other states. They continue to state that the software is working properly. And that double numbers have show in random tests conducted by them. Regardless i stated well there not showing in actual drawings and that what counts. I can see pure numbers being draw a few days in a row but it's been almost a month and still no double numbers.

I cant believe that they haven't figured out their software has a flaw.

And i can only guess when they do and if they do they will play it off as a fluke. Hundred possibly thousand of people play double numbers every day and they are being ripped off big time.


But for now at least maybe some can take advantage of this happening by playing only straight numbers and no doubles. powertrails is perfect pen and pencil method for this sort of thing.

Thanks to BobP

http://www.lotto-logix.com/txthouse/pwrtrails.html

four4me

Quote: Originally posted by JimmySand9 on Aug 20, 2007

Sorry, this won't hold up in court. No judge, lottery director, representative, senator, or governor cares about whether or not doubles have been drawn. The only people who care are people like you, the ones who track this stuff and try to predict numbers. The kind of people, like I have said, the lottery doesn't want playing. They don't want people who are looking for an edge, because someday, they just might find it, if they haven't already. 

In layman's terms : you're gonna need a better argument than "there aren't no doubles in the pick 4". 

Jimmy no state in the USA has had nearly a weeks worth of numbers that didn't contain a double let alone a month's worth. Tennessee lottery software for pick 3-4 is corrupted or has a program error.

 

Drawing DatePick 3Pick 4
MiddayEveningMiddayEvening
Sun, Aug 19, 20078-1-39-0-5-6
Sat, Aug 18, 20076-0-24-3-63-4-9-22-8-7-3
Fri, Aug 17, 20073-7-55-1-29-5-8-74-2-5-6
Thu, Aug 16, 20079-1-21-7-52-1-8-01-2-9-5
Wed, Aug 15, 20070-1-72-9-43-2-1-69-2-4-6
Tue, Aug 14, 20078-1-28-0-23-1-8-01-3-2-6
Mon, Aug 13, 20070-2-15-3-69-2-8-63-5-0-9
Sun, Aug 12, 20076-3-73-8-9-0
Sat, Aug 11, 20079-3-85-9-84-8-2-53-1-9-7
Fri, Aug 10, 20075-3-60-8-51-4-8-61-7-8-9
Thu, Aug 9, 20070-2-85-1-30-8-9-45-8-7-6
Wed, Aug 8, 20079-1-37-0-64-7-9-05-0-8-2
Tue, Aug 7, 20071-2-98-6-79-4-5-24-5-6-8
Mon, Aug 6, 20077-8-05-0-27-0-3-17-1-3-6
Sun, Aug 5, 20076-3-86-7-3-5
Sat, Aug 4, 20077-4-64-6-82-8-6-53-2-5-8
Fri, Aug 3, 20079-5-34-0-66-5-1-42-6-9-4
Thu, Aug 2, 20070-3-66-1-87-6-9-85-8-0-2
Wed, Aug 1, 20075-7-68-2-42-1-9-00-1-3-7
Tue, Jul 31, 20075-4-17-6-03-2-0-98-4-1-7
Mon, Jul 30, 20074-3-82-1-93-0-1-85-7-1-3
Sun, Jul 29, 20075-4-90-9-5-6
Sat, Jul 28, 20075-7-89-0-31-5-2-81-8-5-7
computerhead723's avatarcomputerhead723

Tenns. players   may  have   a  big  fight  on  their  hands  since  all  lotteries  are  Big  Busn..   :

even if  50%   of  regular lottery  players  stopped   playing   and   only   100  people  played  a  dollar  at  each  lottery   terminal  accross   the   state.....  and  the   lottery   paid  out   a  meir $$100,000   per   draw   but   grossed  $$-12million   per  day  profit .....  thats   still   worth   it  to   run   a  busn ;

Computers   are   servents   of  people   and   PROGRAMED , thats   software  which  do   as   the   owners   want  , just   think of  the   datta   it   records  ...betting   habits  and  wages  per Bet ; which   areas  sell  the   most   tickets  ect...ect...

The   solution   is  boycots  and   Politics....fire   some   senators   and   State  Congresspersons  ...

four4me

Quote: Originally posted by computerhead723 on Aug 20, 2007

Tenns. players   may  have   a  big  fight  on  their  hands  since  all  lotteries  are  Big  Busn..   :

even if  50%   of  regular lottery  players  stopped   playing   and   only   100  people  played  a  dollar  at  each  lottery   terminal  accross   the   state.....  and  the   lottery   paid  out   a  meir $$100,000   per   draw   but   grossed  $$-12million   per  day  profit .....  thats   still   worth   it  to   run   a  busn ;

Computers   are   servents   of  people   and   PROGRAMED , thats   software  which  do   as   the   owners   want  , just   think of  the   datta   it   records  ...betting   habits  and  wages  per Bet ; which   areas  sell  the   most   tickets  ect...ect...

The   solution   is  boycots  and   Politics....fire   some   senators   and   State  Congresspersons  ...

Rebecca Paul has been a lottery director for 2 states she should know whether the drawings software is corrupted or not she knows what the statistics show for lottery drawings and should well know that numbers however random contain doubles 33% of the time since doubles are 33% of the pool of numbers.

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by JimmySand9 on Aug 20, 2007

Sorry, this won't hold up in court. No judge, lottery director, representative, senator, or governor cares about whether or not doubles have been drawn. The only people who care are people like you, the ones who track this stuff and try to predict numbers. The kind of people, like I have said, the lottery doesn't want playing. They don't want people who are looking for an edge, because someday, they just might find it, if they haven't already. 

In layman's terms : you're gonna need a better argument than "there aren't no doubles in the pick 4". 

"The lottery (Tennessee Lottery) claims computerized drawings are "exciting", although player polls suggest that any excitement from lottery drawings comes as the result of seeing real lottery balls being mixed in a spinning drum and drawn one at a time — both of which are missing from computerized drawings. "

Because of the Ohio Lottery, state representatives and state senators had an additional $646 million to put into the state's educational fund in 2006. I seriously doubt they would risk losing even a few million dollars a year because of a hair brained idea by a Governor appointed state lottery commission.

"Thanks to the Tennessee Lottery's unilateral decision to abandon traditional lottery drawings using numbered balls to pick the winning numbers on television, many players have decided to stop playing."

The Ohio Lottery has a tradition of listing to the players.

June 18, 2007 press release:

"CLEVELAND… Cash Explosion Double Play is coming back by popular demand on Saturday, Oct. 6, as The Ohio State Lottery’s “new” TV game show. The instant game Cash Explosion, which provides cash prizes and opportunities to be a show contestant, goes on sale Friday, July 27. The final Make Me Famous, Make Me Rich TV show will air Saturday, Sept. 29."

August 14, 2007 press release:

"CLEVELAND… The Cash Explosion instant game has been flying off the shelves as fans of the instant ticket and companion TV show began making their ticket purchases July 27. Cash Explosion instant game sales were $590,450 for the week ending Aug. 11, making it the week’s highest selling $1 game. The game went on sale statewide July 27."

The Tennessee Lottery obviously has a different priority. 

"The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state."

The Ohio Lottery is maximizing dollars for education by listening to the players and Ohio players have confidence in live ball machine drawings whether they watch it or not. I don't know that the meager ticket sales of the new twice-a-day keno style Ten-OH game are because the drawings are computerized and not shown live but that is something the commission will have to evaluate.

"In layman's terms : you're gonna need a better argument than "there aren't no doubles in the pick 4.

Tennessee went to the "exciting" computerized drawings "despite numerous player polls showing mistrust and discontent with the faux drawings".  If anything the fact there has been no doubles in about 40 Pick-3 and Pick-4 drawings using the computer justifies player mistrust. The lottery isn't intentionally cheating but you might have hard time convincing people playing doubles.

I'm not sending the drawing results to the lottery commission, just showing what could result when a state lottery commission stops listening to their players.

 

 

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by four4me on Aug 20, 2007

Jimmy no state in the USA has had nearly a weeks worth of numbers that didn't contain a double let alone a month's worth. Tennessee lottery software for pick 3-4 is corrupted or has a program error.

 

Drawing DatePick 3Pick 4
MiddayEveningMiddayEvening
Sun, Aug 19, 20078-1-39-0-5-6
Sat, Aug 18, 20076-0-24-3-63-4-9-22-8-7-3
Fri, Aug 17, 20073-7-55-1-29-5-8-74-2-5-6
Thu, Aug 16, 20079-1-21-7-52-1-8-01-2-9-5
Wed, Aug 15, 20070-1-72-9-43-2-1-69-2-4-6
Tue, Aug 14, 20078-1-28-0-23-1-8-01-3-2-6
Mon, Aug 13, 20070-2-15-3-69-2-8-63-5-0-9
Sun, Aug 12, 20076-3-73-8-9-0
Sat, Aug 11, 20079-3-85-9-84-8-2-53-1-9-7
Fri, Aug 10, 20075-3-60-8-51-4-8-61-7-8-9
Thu, Aug 9, 20070-2-85-1-30-8-9-45-8-7-6
Wed, Aug 8, 20079-1-37-0-64-7-9-05-0-8-2
Tue, Aug 7, 20071-2-98-6-79-4-5-24-5-6-8
Mon, Aug 6, 20077-8-05-0-27-0-3-17-1-3-6
Sun, Aug 5, 20076-3-86-7-3-5
Sat, Aug 4, 20077-4-64-6-82-8-6-53-2-5-8
Fri, Aug 3, 20079-5-34-0-66-5-1-42-6-9-4
Thu, Aug 2, 20070-3-66-1-87-6-9-85-8-0-2
Wed, Aug 1, 20075-7-68-2-42-1-9-00-1-3-7
Tue, Jul 31, 20075-4-17-6-03-2-0-98-4-1-7
Mon, Jul 30, 20074-3-82-1-93-0-1-85-7-1-3
Sun, Jul 29, 20075-4-90-9-5-6
Sat, Jul 28, 20075-7-89-0-31-5-2-81-8-5-7

This is an incredible sequence of numbers!  For both the Pick 3 and Pick 4 to have no doubles for this length of time is impossible, if you look at the odds.  I completely agree that something very wrong is happening here.

Tennessee lottery players, you have my sympathies.  Your lottery appears to be screwed up. 

Tennessee Lottery:  What a bright decision to look a gift horse in the mouth, and to throw away real drawings for this nonsense. 

Those who want to try this out at home:  Go to the Lottery Post Quick Pick Generator and generate a set of 46 Pick 3 numbers, and 46 Pick 4 numbers.  See how many doubles you get.  Run it a few times and see if you ever get no doubles.

I personally believe the Tennessee Lottery has made a false statement when they said, "For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected."  When there are no doubles ever drawn, that means every drawing, depending on the first and second numbers selected, there are a whole series of numbers that are impossible to be drawn.  Thus, each number would not have the same chance of being drawn.

I wonder when they will flip the switch to start allowing doubles to appear.

four4me

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Aug 20, 2007

This is an incredible sequence of numbers!  For both the Pick 3 and Pick 4 to have no doubles for this length of time is impossible, if you look at the odds.  I completely agree that something very wrong is happening here.

Tennessee lottery players, you have my sympathies.  Your lottery appears to be screwed up. 

Tennessee Lottery:  What a bright decision to look a gift horse in the mouth, and to throw away real drawings for this nonsense. 

Those who want to try this out at home:  Go to the Lottery Post Quick Pick Generator and generate a set of 46 Pick 3 numbers, and 46 Pick 4 numbers.  See how many doubles you get.  Run it a few times and see if you ever get no doubles.

I personally believe the Tennessee Lottery has made a false statement when they said, "For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected."  When there are no doubles ever drawn, that means every drawing, depending on the first and second numbers selected, there are a whole series of numbers that are impossible to be drawn.  Thus, each number would not have the same chance of being drawn.

I wonder when they will flip the switch to start allowing doubles to appear.

i totally agree something is definitely wrong. i used your quick pick generator  and asked it just to pick 1 ticket then another and another just to see how many times i might get a double and they were back to back and about every other out of 10 tries i got 5 doubles.

here's what might be happening in Tennessee they say they have tested the RNG software program and it is working fine.  Without actually knowing what hey have done. They might have asked it to run a group of numbers or they might do a 1 at a time. When it comes to the actual drawing after the pre tests the numbers prior to the actual drawing might have had doubles in them and during the actual draw the rng selected  no doubles. But for this to continuously happen repeatedly for 40 some draws in both pick 3 and 4 which might be two separate machines is definitely malfunctioning.

What kills me the most is anyone working the machine should have noticed this and told someone and investigated the problem and not shrug it off as some kind of fluke.

Anyone who has been working for the lottery should know the odds of what has happened are beyond the scope of random.

I knew something was wrong in the first 5 draws when no numbers came out double and i don't work for the lottery.    

In emails back and fourth to them (Tenn lottery) i sent them some stats from two other states that have RNG software and haven't got a return email from them. The states i sent info fro were Delaware and New Mexico the same amount of drawing just so they could see that other RNG software produces doubles approximately 33% of the time.

As of today they have still not drawn a double number and i don't know if they ever will.

If i lived there i would be calling someone. Complaining and trying to get someone to investigate. I don't know who audits their lottery but they must be clueless also.

four4me

well what do you know Tennessee finally drew a double digit in pick 4 after nearly 40 draws without one.

 

CASH 48/20/2007Evening6691$19,600.00

 

 

pick 3 still remains doubless

DoubleDown

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Aug 20, 2007

This is an incredible sequence of numbers!  For both the Pick 3 and Pick 4 to have no doubles for this length of time is impossible, if you look at the odds.  I completely agree that something very wrong is happening here.

Tennessee lottery players, you have my sympathies.  Your lottery appears to be screwed up. 

Tennessee Lottery:  What a bright decision to look a gift horse in the mouth, and to throw away real drawings for this nonsense. 

Those who want to try this out at home:  Go to the Lottery Post Quick Pick Generator and generate a set of 46 Pick 3 numbers, and 46 Pick 4 numbers.  See how many doubles you get.  Run it a few times and see if you ever get no doubles.

I personally believe the Tennessee Lottery has made a false statement when they said, "For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected."  When there are no doubles ever drawn, that means every drawing, depending on the first and second numbers selected, there are a whole series of numbers that are impossible to be drawn.  Thus, each number would not have the same chance of being drawn.

I wonder when they will flip the switch to start allowing doubles to appear.

Todd, Thanks for changing Tennessee's report card to an F .

Do you have an F+ category ?

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