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N.D. Lottery wrestles with credit card buying options
N.D. Lottery wrestles with credit card buying optionsPosted: 12/4/2007 7:10:31 PM  The North Dakota Lottery's recently announced holiday sale of ticket subscriptions highlights a quirk in its operations. Gamblers are barred from using a credit card to buy tickets, but they may use plastic to play one of the lottery's four games dozens of times over an extended period. Credit card sales are limited to subscriptions, said Chuck Keller, the director of North Dakota's lottery. A subscription allows a gambler to buy a chance to play the same lottery number for 13, 26 or 52 straight weeks. The lottery sells subscriptions for all four of its games — Powerball, Hot Lotto, Wild Card 2 and 2 by 2. Subscriptions represent a small percentage of its total sales, and are sold directly by North Dakota's lottery office. Subscriptions are not available through the lottery's statewide network of retailers. Keller said the holiday subscription sale, which was announced a week ago, is part of an effort to step up the lottery's subscription marketing. It provides 10 percent off the price of subscriptions sold until Dec. 31. "We may do it again for special occasions," Keller said. "But this is the first time we have done something like this." For example, the sale cuts the price of a 52-week Powerball subscription, which is normally $104, to $94. Powerball has drawings each Wednesday and Saturday, and a ticket normally costs $1. The discount is larger for subscriptions to more frequently played games. North Dakotans who buy lottery tickets at a service station, grocery store or other retailer may not use a credit card to buy tickets, the lottery's rules say. Merchants may accept checks or debit cards, which take funds directly from the holder's account. Bruce Brooks, of Minot, who is a critic of the lottery, said the state should not allow gambling on credit. "I'm just against the idea of using credit to bet," Brooks said. "That makes the state lottery office kind of like a loan shark, at much reduced rates, of course. There is no obvious control of the use of credit cards for subscriptions." Lottery subscription forms require players to list their birth dates and attest that they are at least 18 years old, which is the minimum age for buying a lottery ticket. Brooks believes subscriptions provide a way for minors to gamble on the sly. "How many kids under whatever age have gotten on (the Internet) with their parents' credit cards and used them to buy things on the Internet that they're not supposed to buy?" Brooks asked. Keller said subscriptions allow North Dakotans who travel during the wintertime to take part in their home state's lottery. It also helps players in rural areas when a ticket seller is not close by, he said. "It is an alternate distribution channel for the lottery," Keller said. "We anticipate our subscription service growing considerably over the next five years." Subscriptions also may lessen a gambler's temptation to buy more tickets if a game's jackpot has grown larger, Keller said. However, a lottery subscriber is not prevented from buying additional tickets at a retailer. The lottery adopted rules to allow credit-card sales of subscriptions in April 2006, while retaining a ban on credit sales for individual tickets. Keller said the change was aimed at making it more convenient for players to buy subscriptions through the lottery's Web site. Normally, a business that takes credit cards must pay a fee to the credit-card company for each sale. The lottery absorbs the fee, which is less than the 5 percent sales commission it would have to pay on each ticket sold by a retailer. The lottery also would not be obliged to pay a bonus to a merchant for a jackpot ticket sold through a subscription. Source: AP
Mid-Atlantic United States Member #22537 September 20, 2005 32 Posts Offline
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| Posted: December 4, 2007, 9:38 pm - IP Logged |
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Why on earth would a Lottery try to compete with their retailers for sales? Also, buying a 52 week subscription for Powerball does not allow for changes to the Powerball Matrix or prize payout for all states, without giving a years notice. What are these yahoos in ND thinking of?
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Nashville, Tn United States Member #39102 May 3, 2006 266 Posts Offline
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| Posted: December 5, 2007, 2:18 am - IP Logged |
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Why on earth would a Lottery try to compete with their retailers for sales? Also, buying a 52 week subscription for Powerball does not allow for changes to the Powerball Matrix or prize payout for all states, without giving a years notice. What are these yahoos in ND thinking of? good point....hadn't thought about that waiting patiently for my jackpot
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Sunny SW Florida United States Member #25708 November 5, 2005 4070 Posts Offline
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| Posted: December 5, 2007, 3:36 am - IP Logged |
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Huh? I disagree with both of you. I doubt if your remark about changes to the matrix is true. They can simply give the player a credit and apply it to the new game. This isn't the same as an advanced play when you go into a retailer and check a box. When you purchase a subscription, you complete a form with your name, address and telephone number. They keep a record of your purchase and notify you of any wins. If you win a small prize of $5 or less, they use the money to extend your subscription. So that's more money for them since they aren't paying it out, but reinvesting it automatically. How would this affect any changes in the matrix? The person buying a subscription isn't buying 104 tickets, he is buying a subscription. If you buy a subscription to a weekly magazine, you pay for 52 weeks and get the magazine every week. You still get the magazine whether or not the publisher changes the name of it, the subject matter or the amount of pages. This is obviously a marketing promotion. Spending the money all at once assures any business a certain amount of available cash. Also, this gives the ND Lottery a lot of money a year in advance of its actual use. If you were a business owner, wouldn't you love it if even a small portion of your customers paid in full an entire year in advance? Why do banks pay higher interest on CDs than on checking & savings accounts? It's because they have your money for that period of time and you can't touch it without a penalty. If you buy a house "pre-construction" you usually get a nice discount because it gives the developer money to invest in more homes and assures him a sale in advanced of the delivered product. After all, any marketing campaign is to attract sales for profit. One type of business I can think of that thrives on advanced sales is a ski resort. Some resorts sell them in the Spring for the following year with substantial discounts. Season passes not only gives them the money to invest while offering a discount, but assures that you will ski at their resort instead of the one down the road. You will also spend your money at local retailers. Even if you decide you hate the cold and move to Florida, they already have your money! Speaking of snow, ND gets a lot of it and very cold weather too. There are also many rural areas & I don't know if I'd want to go out and scrape the snow off my car, shovel the driveway and venture down to the local market, which might be 50 miles away, just to get a lottery ticket at the last minute. This might also be good for someone who enjoys playing, but has a difficult time getting out regularly, like a disabled person. Yes, they are competing with retailers, but not enough to cause a stir since subscriptions are currently available anyway. This is simply a way to promote buying them for gifts or getting a little extr money out of people while they (a) still have some left and (b) are in a spending mood.
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Sunny SW Florida United States Member #25708 November 5, 2005 4070 Posts Offline
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| Posted: December 5, 2007, 6:03 am - IP Logged |
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When I signed on earlier I began responding to the other comments and not sticking to the subject matter which is the use of credit cards for purchasing lottery tickets. To tell you the truth, as much as I'm against it, I think we have every right in the world to be irresponsible and buy anything we want on credit until we're so deep in debt we need to sell blood every week just to make the minimum monthly payment. One benefit I didn't mention in my other post is that subscriptions reduce the chance of an unclaimed jackpot. However, they also track the small wins that aren't always reported. As crazy as it sounds, I won't buy my ticket in advance unless I'm traveling. Maybe it's a silly superstition. I figure it's like saying "I'm not going to hit for a while." If I didn't think "maybe tonight's my night" every time I buy a ticket, I'd probably wouldn't enjoy playing. Okay, it's 6am maybe I can get some sleep.
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Illinois United States Member #30849 January 17, 2006 3491 Posts Offline
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| Posted: December 5, 2007, 11:04 am - IP Logged |
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Re: Snow in North Dakota, think of the movie Fargo, yah? 
I get the daily e-mail list of winners for the Pick 5 game in Illinois (there's a drawing every night) and in three years of getting it I've seen two subscription jackpot winners. The question about the matrix changing brings up a good point- if the ticket was considered still good, the player's chances are reduced even more. I wonder what would happen in such a situation. Of course, from the tone of the article in the OP, it sounds like North Dakota might tell someone trying to get credit for the reamining plays on the ticket because of an expanding matrix, and change the ticket, "No need, your ticket's still good, yah". It's Lotto, not horseshoes or artillery! close doesn't count! I sell everything at a loss but make up for it in volume - Milo Minderbinder, Catch-22
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United States Member #50584 February 26, 2007 601 Posts Offline
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| Posted: December 5, 2007, 1:02 pm - IP Logged |
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Re: Snow in North Dakota, think of the movie Fargo, yah? 
I get the daily e-mail list of winners for the Pick 5 game in Illinois (there's a drawing every night) and in three years of getting it I've seen two subscription jackpot winners. The question about the matrix changing brings up a good point- if the ticket was considered still good, the player's chances are reduced even more. I wonder what would happen in such a situation. Of course, from the tone of the article in the OP, it sounds like North Dakota might tell someone trying to get credit for the reamining plays on the ticket because of an expanding matrix, and change the ticket, "No need, your ticket's still good, yah". When the matrix changes, it's always an expansion, right? So any numbers chosen within the previous matrix would still be good. On their application, you have a choice to pick your own numbers, or do a quick pick. If you pick your own numbers, you most likely stay with them no matter if there's a matrix change (I have stayed with mine thru all the matrix changes in the last 13 years). It says right on the application that a quick pick generates ONE set of numbers for the length of the subscription. So you know right up front before you pay for it that you're stuck with the numbers they choose for 13 to 52 weeks. I don't think that leaves any room for complaining or requesting a new ticket.
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United States Member #50584 February 26, 2007 601 Posts Offline
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| Posted: December 5, 2007, 1:30 pm - IP Logged |
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When I signed on earlier I began responding to the other comments and not sticking to the subject matter which is the use of credit cards for purchasing lottery tickets. To tell you the truth, as much as I'm against it, I think we have every right in the world to be irresponsible and buy anything we want on credit until we're so deep in debt we need to sell blood every week just to make the minimum monthly payment. One benefit I didn't mention in my other post is that subscriptions reduce the chance of an unclaimed jackpot. However, they also track the small wins that aren't always reported. As crazy as it sounds, I won't buy my ticket in advance unless I'm traveling. Maybe it's a silly superstition. I figure it's like saying "I'm not going to hit for a while." If I didn't think "maybe tonight's my night" every time I buy a ticket, I'd probably wouldn't enjoy playing. Okay, it's 6am maybe I can get some sleep. I'm against people running up credit card debt too. I just wanted to make the point that just because someone chooses to charge an item on their credit card doesn't mean they're running up debt. There are millions of us (myself included) who pay off their credit cards every single month. Some people use credit cards for the convenience. I use mine to get the rewards points. I get hundreds of dollars every year from my CC company just for charging everything I can. Of course it wouldn't be worth it if I had to pay interest on what I charge, so I pay off the balance every month. As for allowing lottery tickets to be purchased on credit cards, I don't think it makes a whit of difference if retailers or the lottery commission allow it or not. If someone wants to use their credit card for lottery they can just go to an ATM and get a cash advance against their credit card, or use one of those &*% "convenience" checks credit card companies send every month, and go buy all the lottery they want. That charge goes right on their credit card, and there's nothing the lottery can do about it. If people want to use their credit cards for lottery, they WILL find a way, and if they're the ones running up debt and paying interest every month, those extra fees won't faze them for a second. The only people this rule prevents from buying lottery on credit cards are people who use their credit responsibly and refuse to pay the fees associated with cash advances and convenience checks. If my state offered this subscription, I'd definitely use it. First, because I could get my regular numbers for a full year and wouldn't have to mark my calendar every 5 weeks (which is the max you can buy at a retailer in Idaho) to remember to buy a new ticket. Second, I'd use the subscription because it's an easy way to get those charges on my credit card and get my rewards $$$.
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Sunny SW Florida United States Member #25708 November 5, 2005 4070 Posts Offline
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| Posted: December 5, 2007, 3:22 pm - IP Logged |
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LuckyLilly writes: "I just wanted to make the point that just because someone chooses to charge an item on their credit card doesn't mean they're running up debt." I totally agree, Lilly. I think you misunderstood me. I wrote that comment tongue-in-cheek in response to Mr. Brooks in the article. I was really saying that I don't like people telling me what I can or cannot do with my money, credit card, body... Yes, there are many people who need guidance and protection from their own bad habits, but I don't think it's the state's job to do it. Regarding the rewards, I use my credit card for just about everything including groceries and gas. Since I have 0% interest for 18 months, I don't even pay it off at the end of the month like you do. The only way I would get into trouble is if I didn't pay the minimum due every month or couldn't pay off the balance before the end of the offer. Even if I couldn't, it would be my personal business unless I stop making payments or claim bankruptcy & expect someone else to bail me out. Then we all get hurt. It's not "debt" to me unless it becomes a burden to me or someone else. I also don't think people who use credit cards and pay interest are necessarily irresponsible. I'm sure there are many families who need to rely on them for emergencies, especially when they lose a job or get sick.
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Sunny SW Florida United States Member #25708 November 5, 2005 4070 Posts Offline
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| Posted: December 5, 2007, 5:54 pm - IP Logged |
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(no I haven't been on LP all day. LOL...working from home and just got back on) Coin Toss writes: "The question about the matrix changing brings up a good point- if the ticket was considered still good, the player's chances are reduced even more. I wonder what would happen in such a situation." Coin Toss, can you tell me why you think your chances are worse? I realize the odds change when even 1 number is added, but I kept my 6 numbers when FL changed from a 6/49 game to a 6/53 game and don't remember any announcements about advanced plays being invalid. It was a long time ago, so maybe someone else knows. Just by adding those few numbers the odds were increased quite a bit. However, why doesn't 1-2-3-4-5-6 have just as much chance coming up when there are 49 numbers as when there are 53? I know that on occasion the winning combination will contain 50, 51, 52 or 53, but I just checked the 27 drawings from 9/1 to 12/1 and there were 6 times that a combination contained one of those numbers. So I do agree it has some effect, but someone who buys a subscription for 3, 6 or 12 months might want to continue playing his own numbers. As Lilly wrote "you most likely stay with them no matter if there's a matrix change" If a person is more of a systems player or uses strategies based on previous drawings, etc., then he won't want to buy a subscription anyway. Another thing - this promotion was for buying Christmas presents. So if you buy someone a ticket, isn't it usually a quick pick? If you know those person's numbers, they're still getting 104 free chances, and they can always buy more. Oy! Here we go again!
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