Beware of sharks swimming in your office lottery pool

Nov 28, 2012, 9:15 am (27 comments)

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LOUISVILLE, Ky. — Linda Sebastian enjoys her job , but she knows exactly what would happen if the members of her office lottery pool hit their numbers and won Wednesday's record $500 million Powerball jackpot.

"My group, we'd wipe our whole floor out," she laughed. "There'd be nobody left in the office."

Even her boss is a member of the pool. "I tease him all the time," she said. "I say, 'I'll meet you at the lottery headquarters.'"

But if you join an office lottery pool, you may want to consult a lawyer first. Some workers who had thought they struck it rich have wound up in bitter litigation over who was really in the pool and who wasn't.

Lawsuits involving lottery pool winnings have been common enough to create a new set of case law, said Russ Weaver, a University of Louisville law professor. A cursory Google search shows some "Lotto lawyers" across the country who specialize in such disputes.

"Be very careful in advance," Weaver advised. "One thing you don't want to do is end up in litigation. Attorneys will eat up quite a bit of your winnings."

Weaver's advice for people who want to join workplace lottery pools: Make photocopies of the group lottery tickets and distribute them to members before the drawing so there's clear proof which tickets belong to the group and which belong to individuals.

Weaver said you need to be able to show, "Did you make the decision before or after the numbers came out?"

Just this March, a judge ordered Americo Lopes of New Jersey to share a $38.5 million jackpot with his lottery pool despite Lopes' claim that he bought the ticket on his own.

And after a March 30 drawing for a nationwide record-breaking $656 million Mega Millions jackpot, a lottery pool scandal erupted when Mirlande Wilson of Maryland came forward to claim the prize. Members of the lottery pool she participated in at a Baltimore McDonald's where she worked said they were entitled to part of the winnings, but Wilson claimed she bought the ticket on her own.

She later said she lost the ticket, and another group came forward with a winning ticket. Wilson's former co-workers sued her in October, claiming she secretly gave the lottery ticket to the second, smaller group so she would not have to split the money with as many people.

Not all winning lottery pools end unhappily.

Bonnie Bullock, for example, was among the "Nukote 22," a group of 22 co-workers who won a $61.5 million Powerball jackpot in September 2007. Even after winning, she said, nobody quit at the Nukote International customer service center in Bardstown, Ky.

"We were such a family," Bullock said. "We had worked together so long and knew each other so well."

The day the group went to claim their winnings, four of them stayed behind to work the phones at the office, including one woman who returned from vacation to help.

Nevertheless, the company's executives rushed to the Bardstown office.

"They thought we were going to leave that day," Bullock said. "They came up from Nashville in carloads. We were customer service — we held the company together. They wanted us to train them in a couple of days. They were shocked we weren't going to leave. I can imagine it was mind-boggling."

The company has since closed the Bardstown office, but the Nukote 22 still play the Powerball and Mega Millions lotteries every week, Bullock said. They even gather for monthly dinners.

Sebastian, who was among those buying lottery tickets Tuesday in downtown Louisville, is hoping for a happy ending too. She said her group normally varies from five to 15 members, but has grown to 20 participants since the Powerball jackpot swelled.

One of her co-workers, Kathy Coombs, said members of the pool talk about two things: "Who's going to stay at work and what we'd do with our money."

Louisville Courier-Journal

Comments

zinniagirl's avatarzinniagirl

Wise advice about the photo copies of ticket numbers before the numbers are drawn for those in groups!

golfer1960's avatargolfer1960

Hey, where is Ridge? Anybody heard from Ridge? Are you out there Ridge? I miss hearing from you brother!

Ridge Runner

gocart1's avatargocart1

Never like lottery pools for that reason...

sully16's avatarsully16

we had a lottery pool at work for about a month, I prefer to go solo.

Cletu$2's avatarCletu$2

Simpler to just avoid pools altogether.

gocart1's avatargocart1

Quote: Originally posted by Cletu$2 on Nov 28, 2012

Simpler to just avoid pools altogether.

I Agree!

savagegoose's avatarsavagegoose

our state has an option to buy  syndicated tickets.   that print out the shares. ie if there where 10 people in the pool there would be 10 tickets, and the price on ea ticket is 1/10th of the full purchase price.

 

and you guessed it, when claiming and you cash the ticket, you get 1/10th the  prizes won by that ticket.  as the pool manager you could end up getting stuck with 3 shares that no one wants to cough  up the cash for untill after the draw.  but if it was a winning set you would have 3x the prizes. so you reall just on sell the shares to interested people.

 

it would be ran by collecting everyones cash, asking who is going to cover the missing people, and getting 2x the money from them. then going store and buying what you can for the amount of shares you need.

 

then if anyone was covered by someone else, handing the 2x tickets to ther coveror, and  clearing yourself of any cash outlay or hassles.

 

 

its not as sociable but hey saves on lawyer fees

megan81's avatarmegan81

I'm in a pool with my father. He laughed at me when I made him sign a contract, and he never reads the emails I send him with the numbers played, date/time/place the tickets were purchased, and copies of the tickets. He will be thanking me when we win!!!

mediabrat's avatarmediabrat

"They thought we were going to leave that day," Bullock said. "They came up from Nashville in carloads. We were customer service — we held the company together. They wanted us to train them in a couple of days. They were shocked we weren't going to leave. I can imagine it was mind-boggling."

The company has since closed the Bardstown office, but the Nukote 22 still play the Powerball and Mega Millions lotteries every week, Bullock said. They even gather for monthly dinners.

Ouch.  That's loyalty for you.  "What's that, you're not going to quit?  Too bad, you're all out of a job anyway!"  Bash  Cussing Face

And obviously they found other people to "hold the company together".  Roll Eyes

Win$500Quick's avatarWin$500Quick

My lottery pool has 1 member. Me!

dallascowboyfan's avatardallascowboyfan

Just when I thought we would never hear about Mirlande Wilson......Bang Head

jeffrey's avatarjeffrey

i was in a lottery pool at work. i don't watch sports and won the football pool. i also won the christmas card game. i was never asked to play these again. i don't  trust those guys for a shop pool. that company closed its doors shortly after i left.Bash

jeffrey's avatarjeffrey

Quote: Originally posted by jeffrey on Nov 28, 2012

i was in a lottery pool at work. i don't watch sports and won the football pool. i also won the christmas card game. i was never asked to play these again. i don't  trust those guys for a shop pool. that company closed its doors shortly after i left.Bash

dear budda, i would like to be able to walk, talk and use my hands. i would like to have my ms cured. oh yeah, budda, make me the jackpot winner of the huge 500 million powerball. thank you budda, your friend jeff.Noel

grengrad's avatargrengrad

The nice thing about a lottery pool is that I get to pick the numbers for 100 tickets for tonight's drawing.

A lot more than I would buy on my own.

I protect myself with a very simple contract that everyone signs. I am sure it is not flawless, but it is enough to establish who was in the pool and who wasn't for a court case.

 

 

The following individuals agree to join a lottery pool for the Powerball drawing on 11/28/12.

Each participant shall have contributed $5 prior to signing this document. Only the participants who have contributed $5 and signed this document shall be eligible to share in the winnings from this drawing.

In the event that prizes are won, with a total equal to or exceeding $1 per person, the lottery pool manager (MY NAME), shall oversee an even division of the prizes amongst the participants.

In the event that prizes are won, with a total not equal to or exceeding $1 per person, the lottery pool manager (MY NAME), shall donate the prizes to the Red Cross.

Under no circumstances will any prizes will be carried over to a future drawing.

This agreement shall not automatically renew and shall expire after the 11/28/12 Powerball drawing.

In the event that the jackpot prize is won, and settlement options are provided (Annuity or Cash), the vote of the majority of the pool members shall decide. 

This is the entire agreement of the parties and there are no agreements express or implied not stated herein. This agreement may only be altered in writing signed by all parties.

 

Dated:   11/28/12

 

Signed by All the Parties

 

Print                                                    Sign                                                     Date

____________________     ____________________     _________

____________________     ____________________     _________

____________________     ____________________     _________

KY Floyd's avatarKY Floyd

Quote: Originally posted by mediabrat on Nov 28, 2012

"They thought we were going to leave that day," Bullock said. "They came up from Nashville in carloads. We were customer service — we held the company together. They wanted us to train them in a couple of days. They were shocked we weren't going to leave. I can imagine it was mind-boggling."

The company has since closed the Bardstown office, but the Nukote 22 still play the Powerball and Mega Millions lotteries every week, Bullock said. They even gather for monthly dinners.

Ouch.  That's loyalty for you.  "What's that, you're not going to quit?  Too bad, you're all out of a job anyway!"  Bash  Cussing Face

And obviously they found other people to "hold the company together".  Roll Eyes

There you go. Another downside to winning the lottery that most people probably never thought about. You don't win enough to retire, so you keep your job. Your employer is afraid you'll quit in a few months or a year, so they take the first chance they get to give your job to somebody else.

Of course it's possible that the company really downsized and had other good reasons to eliminate that office, but I'd guess that worries that they could lose a substantial portion of the staff was a big factor in whatever reorganization they did.

Cletu$2's avatarCletu$2

Quote: Originally posted by golfer1960 on Nov 28, 2012

Hey, where is Ridge? Anybody heard from Ridge? Are you out there Ridge? I miss hearing from you brother!

Ridge Runner

He probably got a bottle of corn and got hisself pickled!

CARBOB

I was in a pool with 9 others at a local pub. We never had a problem, of any kind. We played $50 a draw, mostly lotto, sometimes Mega Money when it was high. We had one 5/6, paid $6000 +. We had one person with everyone's info go to local lottery office. The pool disbanded when Hurricane Charlie blew the bar away.

Guru101's avatarGuru101

Me and 2 coworkers each put $2 towards a $6 Powerball ticket. I bought the ticket yesterday, went home, made 2 copies for my coworkers, and then this morning, gave them their copy of the ticket. On my way home today, I stopped and bought my own $10 ticket. Now lets say that the $10 ticket wins the jackpot, does anyone think they have any reason to suspect foul play on my part after they found out I won? Does anyone think they could concoct some sort of story and form a lawsuit? We have never had a lottery pool at work before.

CARBOB

Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on Nov 28, 2012

Me and 2 coworkers each put $2 towards a $6 Powerball ticket. I bought the ticket yesterday, went home, made 2 copies for my coworkers, and then this morning, gave them their copy of the ticket. On my way home today, I stopped and bought my own $10 ticket. Now lets say that the $10 ticket wins the jackpot, does anyone think they have any reason to suspect foul play on my part after they found out I won? Does anyone think they could concoct some sort of story and form a lawsuit? We have never had a lottery pool at work before.

I'm not an attorney, but I think you are covered, because of the time stamp on the tickets. Don't show them your ticket or a copy of your ticket. They don't know what numbers you played.

Cletu$2's avatarCletu$2

Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on Nov 28, 2012

Me and 2 coworkers each put $2 towards a $6 Powerball ticket. I bought the ticket yesterday, went home, made 2 copies for my coworkers, and then this morning, gave them their copy of the ticket. On my way home today, I stopped and bought my own $10 ticket. Now lets say that the $10 ticket wins the jackpot, does anyone think they have any reason to suspect foul play on my part after they found out I won? Does anyone think they could concoct some sort of story and form a lawsuit? We have never had a lottery pool at work before.

It doesn't matter what anyone here thinks.You are just setting yourself up for a lawsuit.It happens almost everytime that someone joins a pool that doesn't have a contrct spelling out the rules of the pool.H3ll,it happens even if you DO have a contract.Pools are no good,period!This just my opinion,others will tell you otherwise.I suspect they just like to read about the lawsuit,though.

rock_nc's avatarrock_nc

Quote: Originally posted by golfer1960 on Nov 28, 2012

Hey, where is Ridge? Anybody heard from Ridge? Are you out there Ridge? I miss hearing from you brother!

Ridge Runner

yea, where is the ole coot at! where you at ridge runner?

Guru101's avatarGuru101

Quote: Originally posted by CARBOB on Nov 28, 2012

I'm not an attorney, but I think you are covered, because of the time stamp on the tickets. Don't show them your ticket or a copy of your ticket. They don't know what numbers you played.

I don't think they would really have a case because the tickets were purchased on separate days, they were given copies of the pool ticket, and a $10 ticket would bring up the topic of contribution given the fact that there was 3 people.

KY Floyd's avatarKY Floyd

Ever hear the name Merlande Wilson? She's the McDonald's worker who didn't even win and is being sued by her coworkers. You've just done almost exactly what she said did, IIRC. She admitted to being part of the pool, but said the winning ticket was one she bought on her own. At the time her coworkers claimed that when the jackpot was increased they decided to buy more tickets and gave her the money to do it, so they believed the winning ticket she claimed to have belonged to the pool.

Giving somebody copies of tickets that were bought for the pool provides some evidence that those tickets belong to the pool. Not giving somebody copies of tickets doesn't prove anything. A good contract will specify what tickets belong to the  pool and what tickets don't, unless the person who buys the tickets wants to risk sharing a personal prize with the group.

PrisonerSix

I run a pool at my office. There are 13 of us in it total and we each put $4 on payday(every other Friday) in. We buy a mix of Powerball, Lotto, and MegaMillions tickets. My members all pay timely except for one because she got promoted to a job where she travels a lot, so I cover her and she pays me back when she returns to the office. She and I started the pool when we were office mates, then others asked to join and it's up to 13. A few of the members have since retired, but they pay me for several weeks up front and I email them when they owe, and they are good about getting the money to me.

One thing I've always done is copy the tickets and give a copy to each member. I know at least one member was turning around and throwing hers in the trash after I gave it to her. We've since been told to cut down on our paper and copier use, since we now get charged per copy, so I now scan the tickets as a PDF and email them to everyone.

One member did once say I could have won the money and not told them and kept it for myself, which kind of bothered me so I pointed out that since I give them copies of the tickets, I'd a be a fool to try that but she said "nobody looks at them." That member left the pool upon retirement and has since passed on, so I don't have to worry about her anymore.

Our group has never won a big jackpot, the most we've won is around $100 in one set of tickets. When we win smaller amounts, like $1, $2, etc., I roll it back in and buy more tickets but if we win a larger amount like $100, I put it to a vote of the membership what to do with it. Many don't vote and just say they'll go along with everyone else. When Louisiana was conducting its $10/ticket Millionaire Raffle game, our pool won around $10 and I put it to a vote of the members if they wanted to take a shot at a Millionaire Raffle ticket and the majority did.

This article had some good advice for those who want to operate or join a pool, good work Todd.

rdc137

Quote: Originally posted by megan81 on Nov 28, 2012

I'm in a pool with my father. He laughed at me when I made him sign a contract, and he never reads the emails I send him with the numbers played, date/time/place the tickets were purchased, and copies of the tickets. He will be thanking me when we win!!!

Smart woman you are.

jamella724

These people are really funny...but they are just telling the truth with "What if"...

 

Lottery lawyers will surely come and knock on your door to offer their services... Haha...beware of this.

TheOtherOne's avatarTheOtherOne

I buy the tix for my office pool. Same 4 of us have contributed $6 each for powerball since 2009.

After buying them I take a pic of the tix with my iphone and mail it to them, Bcc'ing my personal email. I also sign the back and put their initials for them to sign if and when we win.

That way I have current and historical records of what was purchased for the group.

I also by some of my own that I DO NOT take pics of or send to them ---those are mine. I've thought Of what could happen if mine win and theirs don't but too bad. They buy some of their own too.

I think the line is clearly drawn and they wouldn't have a case if they tried, not that I expect that to happen.

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