N.C. Powerball lottery winners worry what their preacher will think

Sep 5, 2006, 12:03 pm (119 comments)

Powerball

Can winning nearly a million dollars in the lottery be a bad thing? Strangely, for Donald and Danette Sigmon the answer is apparently, "yes."

On July 26, Donald won $800,000 in the Powerball Lottery after accurately choosing five winning numbers. The Sigmons went to Raleigh to claim their prize. Ever since, they have worried over the fact that playing the lottery might have shamed them.

They say they have been shunned and ridiculed — and aren't entirely proud of having played. They're so uncomfortable that Donald has written an open letter to the community about the morality of winning the North Carolina Educational Lottery.

The Sigmons, members of a local Baptist church, were apprehensive at first. She's the child of a Baptist minister, and he is a Baptist after a childhood as a Catholic.

Donald says he had bought the Powerball ticket on a whim. He'd been dealing with the death of his mother earlier this year and said he had some numbers in mind, numbers he chose for personal reasons. He bought the PowerPlay option, which would multiply his winnings by four.

Then he and Danette went to the Outer Banks for a vacation. Only after they returned did they discover that Donald held a ticket worth $200,000. With the multiplier, he had $800,000.

"I didn't think he'd won because he didn't match the last number" or the Powerball number, Danette said.

Although he hadn't hit the jackpot, he had won.

And in the ensuing five weeks, they say, they've been strained by the way some people treat them differently.

"I have learned many things about the beliefs people have towards playing and winning the lottery," Donald wrote. "Is it right or wrong to play the lottery if you are a Christian or attend church? If you feel in your heart that the right thing to do, when winning the lottery, is to tithe the 10 percent of the winnings to a charity or church ... will the church accept it?" he asks.

They gave money to charity and to their church, but the church returned it.

"We understand why the money was returned; we just do not understand the criticism and shunning of our fellow Christian brothers and sisters," Donald wrote.

I "did not intend to win," he said. "But I did. Since that time, my family and I have been congratulated and ridiculed at the same time. The people in our community who know (us) were happy for us because they know how much it will help us financially, now and in the future. On the other hand, the people who should know my family best have ridiculed and shunned us due to this."

Danette, a part-time school bus driver, said the ride to Raleigh to claim their winnings "was the longest ride I've ever taken." After they made it through the maze of paperwork, they were given a check and looked for the first branch they could find of their bank.

That branch was too busy, they were told, as they wanted to deal directly with a banker. So they asked directions to the next branch. There, they were ushered in but greeted with wariness.

"She said they get lots of fake lottery checks," Danette said. "She said she'd never had a winning check come in."

After collecting, they came home and avoided publicity. But still, the state had announced their winnings, so it was in the paper.

Danette says she was unsettled from the get-go.

"I worried, 'What will my preacher think?' she recalls. "Will I be shunned?"

She said she's never played the lottery herself, and she has words of advice for those who do. When buying a ticket, think hard about it: "You don't think, 'What if I win?'" she said.

Donald, who works for Gilbert Engineering installing utilities, said "some people were for us; some were against us," when word got out about the money.

And what did they do with the winnings? They say they paid the taxes, which were substantial; paid off the mortgage on their West Iredell home; shared some with family; invested some for the children's college; and gave some away.

"We've done good things with this money," Danette said, but winning has been "good and bad."

"It changes your life," she said. "I'm so glad he didn't win the big one" worth tens of millions of dollars, she added.

Because they'd been on the financial brink, they appreciate having money in the bank. But still, they feel they are subject to stares in places they should be treated as friends.

Much of the reaction "has broken my heart," Danette said. "But what are we going to do, sit on this pile of money" and do nothing?

They both intend to continue working, because the amount they won isn't enough to get silly about.

So are they happy?

"I could be," Danette said with a laugh. But she would appreciate being able to let the worry go so she could sleep.

What? A lottery winner losing sleep worrying?

"This has not made us happy," they both said, because winning means "you're struggling with right and wrong."

"I'm happy we are able to pay things off, help our family and help charity," she said.

"But we want it to end," he interjected.

But will their acquaintances forgive them for gambling? Danette thinks many will but said: "I'm not going to beg them."

"You would have to be a strong person to not want that money," she said, sitting at her kitchen table with Donald, but "I don't know if it's a curse or a blessing."

Record & Landmark

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DoubleDown

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Sigmon,

You have nothing to be ashamed of.

Tell those people that "shun" you to kiss your __.

It is a combination of ignorance and jealousy that makes the idiots treat you the way that they do. Go on with your lives and fuggetabout it.

Sincerely,

DD 

stephi's avatarstephi

It's too bad they worry so much about what other people think about them. I believe in Lord Jesus Christ and his word also and I don't find one iota in the bible where it says that putting money on games is evil. The lottery is a tax game; it has always been used as a tax. Of course you will always have people that want to make you feel very very guilty. I think many of them are simply jealous. And the stares he gets? I'm sure if he gave those folks a big chunk of his money they wouldn't be staring at him so. Just my two cents.

chuck32

"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s . . . "  Romans 13

 and

"The lot is cast into the lap"  Proverb 16:23

Clairvoyance's avatarClairvoyance

But its OK to go to a church sponsored picnic that has bingo? Same thing, you pick a board with numbers on and wait for them to be drawn and when you have all the numbers on your board then BINGO and you WIN MONEY! How many people do you know that will sit and play bingo for hours for the heck of it? None, they are all there to win money prizes! Christians are not supposed to be drunkards either but how many church picnics do you see selling beer at beer booths for profits? Many of them do!!!!!!! But I guess that is OK?

The people that are shunning you are called Hypocrites! And that is exactly what they are so next time you see them at a church picnic playing bingo and drinking beer shun them sinners too!!!!! LOL! You can’t get a speck out of your brothers eye when you have one in your own!

Enjoy your blessing because that is what it was!

RJOh's avatarRJOh

People who don't want to win some money don't buy a PowerBall lottery ticket and those who buy a ticket that don't expect to win anyting don't pay extra for the PowerPlay.  People who do things that they are ashamed of avoid talking about them in public.

liberal47's avatarliberal47

I think it says alot about North Carolina, and why it took so long to establish a lottery in that state. It's hard to control the sheep in a flock if they start doing things that are going to make them pull the wool out of their eyes. I think the congregation is doing just that for these lucky people.

ochoop17

Sometime i think the wrong people hit the powerball games. Because, if it was me who hit that powerball game, i wouldn't give a *@!&^# what they say.

speedracer

I wonder if they went through this when they bought Insurance?  Did the "Flock" have problems with them gambling with that?  Or what kind of Insurance they bought?  I wonder if the "Flock" has problems with them having a 401k that is growing from the Stock Market. I wonder if the "Flock" has 401k's growing in the Stock Market.  OMG!  Could the "Flock" be "Gambling"?  SOMEBODY TELL GOD!!!!!!  The World is going to HELL!  Oh wait a minute, it's already there. Big Grin

Bradly_60's avatarBradly_60

That does show how narrow minded North Carolinans are.  This always has eerked me.  You can definetly tell that NC is a red state.  Glad I don't live there.

Brad

konane's avatarkonane
"Money changes everything" .....  reveals true essence of people who would be jealous if that family won $1,000. 
Jealousy is all about control.
Congratulations to the winners!!  Big Grin Angel
Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Bradly_60 on Sep 5, 2006

That does show how narrow minded North Carolinans are.  This always has eerked me.  You can definetly tell that NC is a red state.  Glad I don't live there.

Brad

I obviously completely disagree with the anti-gambling croud, but I would not be so judgmental to deem all North Carolinians as "close-minded," as you do.

I think a large segment of the population in N.C. despises gambling, which is their right.  I don't think some of the comments about BINGO mentioned above apply to such people, because I don't think BINGO is used as a fundraiser in Born Again ministries.  Someone can certainly correct me on this if I'm wrong.

I guess it's not in my personality to give a hoot about what someone else thinks, so it's hard to sympathize with the "shameful winners" described in the story.  I do feel bad for them, in that they do not have the ability to enjoy their new-found wealth, and are dragged down by feelings of guilt.

By the way, regarding the "red state" comment mentioned by Brad, I would rather live in a red state any day of the week.  And this comes from someone living in a blue state (me).  If I'm lucky, someday I'll move to a red state, and it may even be one of the eight without a lottery. Big Grin

Tenaj's avatarTenaj

Quote: Originally posted by Bradly_60 on Sep 5, 2006

That does show how narrow minded North Carolinans are.  This always has eerked me.  You can definetly tell that NC is a red state.  Glad I don't live there.

Brad

MadThat does show how narrow minded North Carolinans are.  WHAT A BLANKET STATEMENT! - Does that statement cover me too?   I am a native North Carolinian and I'm not narrow minded and I don't know what you mean about being a "red" state.  We are communists too?

Yes, this is the Bible Belt and many people have been brow beaten with religion....all in the presence of bigotry.  But that doesn't make all of us stupid.  Intelligence is an individual thing.   

I'm glad you don't live here either, Bradley_60.    God know we don't need another stupid person.  Oh, did I say God.

Everyone who lives is Michigan are super intelligent and great people, except Bradly_60.  He is stupid.  You can paint him "red."

There are too many wonderful Michigan people on LP for me to be ignorant enough to insult the entire state.

PrisonerSix

A very valid point about gambling and BINGO.  I think the reason many churches here were opposed to a lottery was for that very reason, it was competition against BINGO.  My parents used to help out with BINGO for the Catholic school my brother attended and they raked in alot of money from it.  Since lottery, video poker, and casinos came to Louisiana, BINGO revenues have been in decline and that will probably start happening in NC.  The church doesn't like the competition.

I remember a story from several years ago about a Louisiana priest who actually refused to have BINGO for his church becuase he saw alot of people cashing Social Security and even Public Assistance(aka Welfare) checks to play BINGO.  He caught alot of flack from the upper ranks of the area Catholic Church for it.  The Catholic church wanted gambling but didn't want anyone else to have it since it cut in on their revenue.

I also agree with the shunning, those people are hypocrites pure and simple.  For all anyone knows, some of them are probably closet lottery players themselves and may have even gone to Vegas or some other place with casinos and gambled.  I tend to think people who engage in this sort of shunning or persecution of "sinners" probably have or are doing all the things they are telling the rest of us not to do and a few other things we haven't heard of or knew were physically possible<grin>.

My message to these people is enjoy your winnings and live a good life.  

Bradly_60's avatarBradly_60

Sorry about my post earlier I guess I did come across as blunt.  But it does seem like everyone is on the same page as to how we feel about this subject.

Brad

Rick G's avatarRick G

Quote: Originally posted by DoubleDown on Sep 5, 2006

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Sigmon,

You have nothing to be ashamed of.

Tell those people that "shun" you to kiss your __.

It is a combination of ignorance and jealousy that makes the idiots treat you the way that they do. Go on with your lives and fuggetabout it.

Sincerely,

DD 

D.D. is absolutely correct.  Your community's mindset is obviously located in the lowest part of the intestine.  Take an enema and get out of there...fast. The brain is about 3 feet due north and your neighbors don't have a compass.  Sad thing is, they'll have a GPS honed onto your wallet when it suits them.

Shame on them.  "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods".   Must be a verse missing from their bible.

Get on with your life and leave the toilet paper in the toilet.

Congrats on your win! 

mangeydog

And yet you don't seem to have a problem with being judgemental towards democrats and liberals do you Todd? I am really surprised at seeing such hypocrisy from a conservative.

JAP69's avatarJAP69

Do all those do goodies harrass the lottery players in the stores when they are buying tickets?

How did they get lottery sales in that town any how.

The anti lottery people of N.C. knew what they were talking about when they said N.C. should not have a lottery.

Now look at what has happen.

rdc137

This sounds like the reactions the PA Amish give to members of their community who do anything "modern". I've heard of one Amish family who was shunned by the community for buying an electric water pump to wash things on their farm, but not to use for drinking water.

 Closed minded societies are a scary thing. I have found in my travels that the bible belt is such a society. It is a blanket description, but the blanket definitely has some moth holes in it, so to speak. I speak from experiences I've had in Southern Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Southwest Virginia.

justxploring's avatarjustxploring

Quote: Originally posted by mangeydog on Sep 5, 2006

And yet you don't seem to have a problem with being judgemental towards democrats and liberals do you Todd? I am really surprised at seeing such hypocrisy from a conservative.

Yay!!  Hurray!  I was so excited when I read this post that I dropped my Hillary For President button!

murdoog


I have a different take on this from nearly everyone. Aside from the incident of the church returning their donation, this article is rather short on specifics. We see that they have been "shunned" and "ridiculed" with no mention of how they were shunned and ridiculed.

 I might be playing armchair psychiatrist here, but maybe they feel guilty about playing and winning (from what I hear, this is common among lottery winners, even if it's not justified) and are reading too much into the way others are interacting with them.

Rick G's avatarRick G

Quote: Originally posted by rdc137 on Sep 5, 2006

This sounds like the reactions the PA Amish give to members of their community who do anything "modern". I've heard of one Amish family who was shunned by the community for buying an electric water pump to wash things on their farm, but not to use for drinking water.

 Closed minded societies are a scary thing. I have found in my travels that the bible belt is such a society. It is a blanket description, but the blanket definitely has some moth holes in it, so to speak. I speak from experiences I've had in Southern Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Southwest Virginia.

Before my wife and I were married we were driving through Oklahoma and wanted to rent a motel room for the night but were refused because we weren't married.  We drove out of the state through the night and never crossed its border again.

When those motel owners are standing before St. Peter, I hope he tells them "There is no room in the inn".

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by mangeydog on Sep 5, 2006

And yet you don't seem to have a problem with being judgemental towards democrats and liberals do you Todd? I am really surprised at seeing such hypocrisy from a conservative.

Mangeydog, I just tell the facts, and the facts burn like hot acid when applied to those who embody the facts that I describe.  To say that my reporting of the facts is being "judgmental" is incorrect, and I will not take the bait you are offering.

If you would like to point out where I have ever failed to describe the facts surrounding any allegation about liberals and/or Democrats, I would appreciate it.

JE, I actually hope that Hillary Clinton wins the Democrat primary and becomes the candidate, because that means that the other side will win.  I think Hillary realizes that, which is why her staff is "leaking" rumors that she may not run for prez, and will just seek the Senate leadership.  One loss on Hillary's record will tarnish her forever, and she knows it.

Most people are not swayed by the arguments of the other side, and I do not expect you or other liberals to be swayed by the reasoned arguments that I put forth.  (I try to keep political statements in my blog, but occasionally have to respond in the public forums when other people do not employ the same good faith that I do.)

However, if I can help one person to think logically instead of emotionally, and help one person to think on their own, rather than following the talking points of whatever political party they align with, then I feel it is worth it.

By the way mangeydog, I sincerely appreciate that you have labeled me as "conservative", rather than "Republican".  In all honesty, the label I would attach to myself is "traditionalist", as I favor the philosophies that this country was founded on:  freedom in all things that do not cause harm to others or impede others' freedoms, equality of all people, and freedom from oppressive government.  The term "conservative" fits me pretty well most of the time, and Republican tends to also, but not all the time.  So I guess that's the "label pecking order" for me, just in case you care.

Tenaj's avatarTenaj

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Sep 5, 2006

Mangeydog, I just tell the facts, and the facts burn like hot acid when applied to those who embody the facts that I describe.  To say that my reporting of the facts is being "judgmental" is incorrect, and I will not take the bait you are offering.

If you would like to point out where I have ever failed to describe the facts surrounding any allegation about liberals and/or Democrats, I would appreciate it.

JE, I actually hope that Hillary Clinton wins the Democrat primary and becomes the candidate, because that means that the other side will win.  I think Hillary realizes that, which is why her staff is "leaking" rumors that she may not run for prez, and will just seek the Senate leadership.  One loss on Hillary's record will tarnish her forever, and she knows it.

Most people are not swayed by the arguments of the other side, and I do not expect you or other liberals to be swayed by the reasoned arguments that I put forth.  (I try to keep political statements in my blog, but occasionally have to respond in the public forums when other people do not employ the same good faith that I do.)

However, if I can help one person to think logically instead of emotionally, and help one person to think on their own, rather than following the talking points of whatever political party they align with, then I feel it is worth it.

By the way mangeydog, I sincerely appreciate that you have labeled me as "conservative", rather than "Republican".  In all honesty, the label I would attach to myself is "traditionalist", as I favor the philosophies that this country was founded on:  freedom in all things that do not cause harm to others or impede others' freedoms, equality of all people, and freedom from oppressive government.  The term "conservative" fits me pretty well most of the time, and Republican tends to also, but not all the time.  So I guess that's the "label pecking order" for me, just in case you care.

Thud

Let our country's history be the facts.

LckyLary

I am a Christian. People are wary because there may have been cases where someone won big and sounded all holy and then their life was torn asunder between their own behavior and those around them. Maybe not the case with these people but we tend to remember the negative stories because the positive stories are rarely reported.

I don't have the Bible memorized. If someone knows could you tell me on what page does it say "Thou Shalt Not Gamble"? Wouldn't the stock market be a form of gambling? For that matter, the risks that one takes on a daily basis in order to survive? If the Lord wants me to be rich it will happen by some means, whether by a clever algorithm in the Lottery or some other way.

psykomo's avatarpsykomo

Quote: Originally posted by RJOh on Sep 5, 2006

People who don't want to win some money don't buy a PowerBall lottery ticket and those who buy a ticket that don't expect to win anyting don't pay extra for the PowerPlay.  People who do things that they are ashamed of avoid talking about them in public.


Thank$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.............RJOh!!!!

Have you ever.........ever??????????????????????.............WON???

Won??? anything of VALUE??????

"DEATH" in a family......

can DO some......strange

""""THING$$""""

PSYKOMO   

dphillips's avatardphillips

I concur with your excellent diagnosis.  To sum it up, misery loves company! 

 

Blue

psykomo's avatarpsykomo

Quote: Originally posted by mangeydog on Sep 5, 2006

And yet you don't seem to have a problem with being judgemental towards democrats and liberals do you Todd? I am really surprised at seeing such hypocrisy from a conservative.


MANGEYA$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.........psykomo

agree$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$......."WITCH"

you..............................................MANGEY

"YOU" are the Jacka$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

to....."LEAD" the TROOPS from Bagdad to IOWA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when "YOU" give...........................................................................

YOUR "BASTARD" friends (PERMISSION) to cut OFF HEADS<<<<<

DON'T ask HELP from the.............................................................

"National Guard"

US FlagUS FlagUS FlagUS FlagParty

PSYKOMO. 

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Tenaj on Sep 5, 2006

Thud

Let our country's history be the facts.

I'm glad we agree.

Tenaj's avatarTenaj

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Sep 5, 2006

I'm glad we agree.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly.

psykomo's avatarpsykomo

Quote: Originally posted by Tenaj on Sep 5, 2006

I disagree with you wholeheartedly.


RantNo Pity!....ButHead & BeviS:

then..................ButHead holes the

HEAD & BeviS..

whack's................it "OFF"

then, you & Bevis suck all the BLOOD out of the HEAD you

were HOLD'G ....................................GOOD STUFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!

DON'T CALL<<<<<<<<<<YOU KNOW WHO..............

if IT's YOUR......................................................."HEAD"!!

      "Go"

National Guard!!!!

PSYKOMO 

 

 

wreakshavok777's avatarwreakshavok777

Here is what to do to solve this problem...When you drive to church this sunday in your new H2 hummer hold your head up and when the collection plate comes around peel off about 10k and drop it in and watch the mood of the church change!Big Grin

emilyg's avataremilyg

congratulations!!!  change churches.

charh20's avatarcharh20

LOL emilyg,,,,,,,,,,

I think that your responce is the best one so far. I agree completely......

Coin Toss's avatarCoin Toss

Quote: Originally posted by wreakshavok777 on Sep 5, 2006

Here is what to do to solve this problem...When you drive to church this sunday in your new H2 hummer hold your head up and when the collection plate comes around peel off about 10k and drop it in and watch the mood of the church change!Big Grin


This is a story I wrote for a writing course, fits here:

 



     Pastor John Ezra was a third generation preacher. In Kentucky, as in most of the South and bordering states, the clergy preached fire and brimstone sermons. In a tobacco and distillery economy some subjects were taboo. This was a given. Because of this, most preachers had something besides tobacco or drinking that they got very passionate about. Pastor John Ezra was no different, with him his passionate sermons were on gambling.

     The church he pastored was facing some difficulties. Membership had dropped off, families have moved away. The area was experiencing a decline in population. One of the regulars in his church was Tommy Finley. Tommy was there almost every Sunday and enjoyed the fire and brimstone sermons, seeing some valid points in them -despite Tommy’s love of playing the lotto most every week.  Tommy had been involved with race horses and casinos in the past and knew a little more about gambling than the average person.

     Pastor Jon and Tommy had met for lunch and were discussing a tobacco mart down the road. In Kentucky tobaccos stores are a very bi business, as even with the latest tax increases the tax per pack and per carton still made Kentucky cigarettes less expensive than the cost in surrounding states. These stores sold discount cigarettes and other tobacco products, discount liquor, and lottery tickets. This was on top of the other knick- knacks common to convenience stores along highways.

     “You gotta love it”, Tommy said as he looked at the Pastor.
      “What’s that”, asked Pastor John?
     “Well, just look around you. We see cigarettes, liquor, flyers for horse farms that raise race horses, lottery tickets, and look on the window. Flyers for upcoming events at two Baptist churches.”
 
  




     “You don’t see that as kind of ironic, or see the humor in it?”, asked Tommy.
     “Gladly take in tobacco money or liquor money from your congregation and preach against the lottery?”
     “It’s gambling”, said Pastor John.
      Tommy said, “Look, I’m not talking about casinos and enticing people to play their whole paycheck on video poker, trying to win an $1100.00 Royal Flush. Unlikely that would change anyone’s life - but the casino owners. As they make more and more. I’m talking about working stiffs playing a buck or two on a lottery ticket because it gives them just a little bit of hope. You see this everyday I casinos, when people walk out, most of them look angry. Of course they do, most of them lost. When people leave a lotto place, especially when there’s a huge jackpot, they walk out with hope on their face.”
     “It’s still gambling, “ Pastor John said.
     “I’m not saying it isn’t,” remarked Tommy. “I’m saying far better to risk a dollar or two trying to change your life than risking paycheck after paycheck to get even. Read a lottery ticket, the remark about proceeds from the lottery benefit all Kentuckians. Proceeds from the casinos go to the casino corporations, most out of state. Big difference.”   
     Pastor John said, “So you’re opposed to casinos but pro-lottery.”
     “Not exactly”, said Tommy. “I’m just saying casinos promise a bunch of spin off business. Then after they’re up and operating, they open their own restaurants which takes away from the businesses in town, to the point they eventually close.”
     “The thing is”, said Tommy, “if three people from your church were to come in here right now, and one buys cigarettes, one buys a bottle of booze, and one buys a lottery ticket, you’d preach to the one with a lottery ticket and say hello to the other two.”
     “Well yeah”, said Pastor John.






     They had finished lunch and Tommy said he wanted to get one more cup of coffee and make some phone calls. Pastor John said he had a few stops to make and went out to his car and left.
Tommy got another coffee and grabbed a newspaper, noticing that the Powerball jackpot was
$75,000,000. He remembered the old adage about how even a blind hog could find an acorn eery now and then and decided to spend a couple of dollars to” benefit all Kentuckians.”

     Powerball is played by picking five out of 53 numbers in the top box of a powerball slip, and 1 number of 42 on the bottom. Hitting the five of five on the top portion wins $100,000. Adding the winning powerball number to those five takes the prize up by millions, literally.

     Tommy chose five numbers, and the powerball number. He repeated one of the first five as the powerball number, just on a hunch. He thought about how much he’d give to Pastor John and his church if he won, but to do that the media would make a big affair out of it. Not only that, the taxes would really be sticky. He couldn’t give that much away anonymously.  Tommy came up with a better idea. H gave the clerk three dollars and said, “Can you play this same ticket three times?”.  The clerk said, “Sure” as she knew people always played tickets for other people, especially of they were out of state people. As she handed him the tickets and said, “Good luck” he gave one back to her and said, “This is for you, I want someone rooting for those numbers”. Tommy thought 75 million for one person was a bit much, splitting it would be better.
She thanked him and he left, taking the other two tickets.

     The Saturday night of the drawing, Tommy watched it on TV and one by one the numbers were selected. 7 - 24 - 27- 29 - 41 and the powerball, 24. Tommy checked his tickets. (So did the store clerk at her home!) Then he checked and rechecked.




     Tommy didn’t  sleep much that night, neither did that store clerk!  He made it a point to get to Pastor John’s church on time, sat there and listened to sermon on the lottery. He kind of had hunch that’s what it would be on, as Pastor John often used those lunches as ideas for the next Sunday’s sermon.
     When it came time for the offering basket to be passed around and it came to Tommy, he took out a $20 bill and wrapped it around the other winning lottery ticket and dropped them in the basket....




 


    
      

    

    

 

Rick G's avatarRick G

Quote: Originally posted by psykomo on Sep 5, 2006


MANGEYA$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.........psykomo

agree$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$......."WITCH"

you..............................................MANGEY

"YOU" are the Jacka$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

to....."LEAD" the TROOPS from Bagdad to IOWA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when "YOU" give...........................................................................

YOUR "BASTARD" friends (PERMISSION) to cut OFF HEADS<<<<<

DON'T ask HELP from the.............................................................

"National Guard"

US FlagUS FlagUS FlagUS FlagParty

PSYKOMO. 

OK, I have to comment here.  You brought it up so I'm going to talk about it. 

First of all, if you have something to communicate, communicate it. 

It sounds like you're saying Baghdad was going to march to Iowa and behead us if we didn't go make war on them first.  If I'm wrong, then make a sensible post so I can understand what you are saying.

Baghdad did not bomb the WTC.  Osama Bin Laden did.  He freely admitted to it before we started a war in Iraq.  Osama Bin Laden is still a free man 5 years later.  Osama Bin Laden and his cronies will be the ones beheading in Iowa not Baghdad.  And you are right, we won't be asking the National Guard to help us because they're in Iraq right now, aren't they?

Get the flags out of your eyes and ask yourself, "Why is the man who attacked our country and murdered 3,000 innocent citizens in a half hour's time still a free man?"

150,000 soldiers with accompanying American warfare technology combing Afghanistan and Pakistan would have had him and his major cohorts captured in 6 months.  That is the way to prosecute a crime.

He would have been convicted and sentenced to death.  Iraq would not be in a civil war because Saddam would still be there to stop it.  Iran wouldn't be waving its nuclear arms because historically Iraq and Iran have countered each other's power in the region, leaving no one single superpower.

Right now we're screwed and haven't accomplished a single thing.  And you think you're safer in Iowa?

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Tenaj on Sep 5, 2006

I disagree with you wholeheartedly.

Aw, too bad, I'm brokenhearted. Roll Eyes

wizeguy's avatarwizeguy

Nice story, Coin Toss. Big Smile

 I'm a transplant anyways so not much to hold me here. I will immediately move away from here to a state with more favorable taxes. I will tell no one at the new locale about the win. My new church gets my tithes and if someone puts it together it's from a lottery win and they decide to return the money then so be it. It would prob take me a good 6 months to settle on a new church so maybe memories will dim. I'll just add that 10% to the other additional 10% (if it's tax favorable) I'd earmark for charities, etc. I believe in sharing the wealth. Thumbs Up

whitmansm2's avatarwhitmansm2

Quote: Originally posted by Coin Toss on Sep 5, 2006


This is a story I wrote for a writing course, fits here:

 



     Pastor John Ezra was a third generation preacher. In Kentucky, as in most of the South and bordering states, the clergy preached fire and brimstone sermons. In a tobacco and distillery economy some subjects were taboo. This was a given. Because of this, most preachers had something besides tobacco or drinking that they got very passionate about. Pastor John Ezra was no different, with him his passionate sermons were on gambling.

     The church he pastored was facing some difficulties. Membership had dropped off, families have moved away. The area was experiencing a decline in population. One of the regulars in his church was Tommy Finley. Tommy was there almost every Sunday and enjoyed the fire and brimstone sermons, seeing some valid points in them -despite Tommy’s love of playing the lotto most every week.  Tommy had been involved with race horses and casinos in the past and knew a little more about gambling than the average person.

     Pastor Jon and Tommy had met for lunch and were discussing a tobacco mart down the road. In Kentucky tobaccos stores are a very bi business, as even with the latest tax increases the tax per pack and per carton still made Kentucky cigarettes less expensive than the cost in surrounding states. These stores sold discount cigarettes and other tobacco products, discount liquor, and lottery tickets. This was on top of the other knick- knacks common to convenience stores along highways.

     “You gotta love it”, Tommy said as he looked at the Pastor.
      “What’s that”, asked Pastor John?
     “Well, just look around you. We see cigarettes, liquor, flyers for horse farms that raise race horses, lottery tickets, and look on the window. Flyers for upcoming events at two Baptist churches.”
 
  




     “You don’t see that as kind of ironic, or see the humor in it?”, asked Tommy.
     “Gladly take in tobacco money or liquor money from your congregation and preach against the lottery?”
     “It’s gambling”, said Pastor John.
      Tommy said, “Look, I’m not talking about casinos and enticing people to play their whole paycheck on video poker, trying to win an $1100.00 Royal Flush. Unlikely that would change anyone’s life - but the casino owners. As they make more and more. I’m talking about working stiffs playing a buck or two on a lottery ticket because it gives them just a little bit of hope. You see this everyday I casinos, when people walk out, most of them look angry. Of course they do, most of them lost. When people leave a lotto place, especially when there’s a huge jackpot, they walk out with hope on their face.”
     “It’s still gambling, “ Pastor John said.
     “I’m not saying it isn’t,” remarked Tommy. “I’m saying far better to risk a dollar or two trying to change your life than risking paycheck after paycheck to get even. Read a lottery ticket, the remark about proceeds from the lottery benefit all Kentuckians. Proceeds from the casinos go to the casino corporations, most out of state. Big difference.”   
     Pastor John said, “So you’re opposed to casinos but pro-lottery.”
     “Not exactly”, said Tommy. “I’m just saying casinos promise a bunch of spin off business. Then after they’re up and operating, they open their own restaurants which takes away from the businesses in town, to the point they eventually close.”
     “The thing is”, said Tommy, “if three people from your church were to come in here right now, and one buys cigarettes, one buys a bottle of booze, and one buys a lottery ticket, you’d preach to the one with a lottery ticket and say hello to the other two.”
     “Well yeah”, said Pastor John.






     They had finished lunch and Tommy said he wanted to get one more cup of coffee and make some phone calls. Pastor John said he had a few stops to make and went out to his car and left.
Tommy got another coffee and grabbed a newspaper, noticing that the Powerball jackpot was
$75,000,000. He remembered the old adage about how even a blind hog could find an acorn eery now and then and decided to spend a couple of dollars to” benefit all Kentuckians.”

     Powerball is played by picking five out of 53 numbers in the top box of a powerball slip, and 1 number of 42 on the bottom. Hitting the five of five on the top portion wins $100,000. Adding the winning powerball number to those five takes the prize up by millions, literally.

     Tommy chose five numbers, and the powerball number. He repeated one of the first five as the powerball number, just on a hunch. He thought about how much he’d give to Pastor John and his church if he won, but to do that the media would make a big affair out of it. Not only that, the taxes would really be sticky. He couldn’t give that much away anonymously.  Tommy came up with a better idea. H gave the clerk three dollars and said, “Can you play this same ticket three times?”.  The clerk said, “Sure” as she knew people always played tickets for other people, especially of they were out of state people. As she handed him the tickets and said, “Good luck” he gave one back to her and said, “This is for you, I want someone rooting for those numbers”. Tommy thought 75 million for one person was a bit much, splitting it would be better.
She thanked him and he left, taking the other two tickets.

     The Saturday night of the drawing, Tommy watched it on TV and one by one the numbers were selected. 7 - 24 - 27- 29 - 41 and the powerball, 24. Tommy checked his tickets. (So did the store clerk at her home!) Then he checked and rechecked.




     Tommy didn’t  sleep much that night, neither did that store clerk!  He made it a point to get to Pastor John’s church on time, sat there and listened to sermon on the lottery. He kind of had hunch that’s what it would be on, as Pastor John often used those lunches as ideas for the next Sunday’s sermon.
     When it came time for the offering basket to be passed around and it came to Tommy, he took out a $20 bill and wrapped it around the other winning lottery ticket and dropped them in the basket....




 


    
      

    

    

 

What a great story!  And it proves a point...The preacher is going to be changing his sermon's pretty damn quick!

 

I've been reading the comments, and I'd like to throw in my 2 cents here.  I believe in God.  I'm a Christian.  I will NOT be ashamed when I win.  Why?  Because I truely believe that a sin is something that comes between you and God.  No matter WHAT it is.  If you take that money and you break it off with your family, or you do stupid things like JW did....then it's a sin.  If I'm so obcessed with...say Chocolate...and I can't seem to make it to church or to read my bible because of my sticky hands....then my obcession with Chocolate is now a sin.  MY GOODNESS!  CHOCOLATE A SIN?  Yes...only if it comes between you and God.  If you ask God to help you with your finances but you're blowing your paycheck on Gambling...its a sin. 

Think of it this way....You are taking that lottery ticket....or chocolate...or whatever and you are putting it up on  a pedestal....you're making it a God.  God said you can't have any other Gods before Him.....I don't think he meant JUST buddha or Alah.

I'm rambling now.....sorry.  lol

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Rick G on Sep 5, 2006

OK, I have to comment here.  You brought it up so I'm going to talk about it. 

First of all, if you have something to communicate, communicate it. 

It sounds like you're saying Baghdad was going to march to Iowa and behead us if we didn't go make war on them first.  If I'm wrong, then make a sensible post so I can understand what you are saying.

Baghdad did not bomb the WTC.  Osama Bin Laden did.  He freely admitted to it before we started a war in Iraq.  Osama Bin Laden is still a free man 5 years later.  Osama Bin Laden and his cronies will be the ones beheading in Iowa not Baghdad.  And you are right, we won't be asking the National Guard to help us because they're in Iraq right now, aren't they?

Get the flags out of your eyes and ask yourself, "Why is the man who attacked our country and murdered 3,000 innocent citizens in a half hour's time still a free man?"

150,000 soldiers with accompanying American warfare technology combing Afghanistan and Pakistan would have had him and his major cohorts captured in 6 months.  That is the way to prosecute a crime.

He would have been convicted and sentenced to death.  Iraq would not be in a civil war because Saddam would still be there to stop it.  Iran wouldn't be waving its nuclear arms because historically Iraq and Iran have countered each other's power in the region, leaving no one single superpower.

Right now we're screwed and haven't accomplished a single thing.  And you think you're safer in Iowa?

I don't see it that way. 

If you asked, "And you think you're safer in New Jersey?" my answer would a resounding "yes".

I live a lot closer to Ground Zero than you, Rick, and I was supposed to be in the WTC in the Marsh & McLennan floors at the exact time the planes hit.  The only reason I'm not dead today is that another consultant took my place.  They are dead, and I'm alive.

I don't think of this as some kind of theory to discuss, it is a real war against those a-holes who attacked this country.

And don't fool yourself: we ARE fighting the exact people would be be attacking our country today.  Instead of helping their fellow fascists in Iraq, they would be blowing up planes or buildings, or maybe smuggling chemical weapons into cities.

You can't argue with success of the Bush administration:  zero attacks on our homeland since 9/11.  You can say whatever you want, but all the fighting is being done in the terrorists homeland.

Spain train stations have been blown up, UK busses have been blown up, Jordanian hotels have been blown up, and a dozen other things, but exactly how many things have been blown up in your town, Rick?

I simply don't care who YOU think attacked us.  All I know is that Bush has kept us safe.  And yes, Iraq was a center of state-sponsored terrorism, and a threat to the whole world.  The thousands of Arab language documents that have now been translated have proven that the terrorist ties were all there, and quite real.  How many news stories have you heard on CBS News about that?

Osama Bin Laden is neutralized, just as good as dead.  Al Zarqwari is dead.  A recent report showed that something like 80% of the Al Queda leadership is dead or captured.  They are not gone, but severely crippled.

Of course, the New York Times and Katie Couric would never tell you that, but a lot of people in America believe their hogwash anyway.

Everyone thinks they know better, and lots of people listen to the lame-o liberals who talk tough, but cower in the corner when they actually have to do something.  I scoff at the notion of listening to Nancy Pelosi for leading troops into battle.  Or any of those liberal mealy-mouths.

You people can bash our President all day long, but I am proud to have him as my president.

wizardsheep

Quote: Originally posted by Coin Toss on Sep 5, 2006


This is a story I wrote for a writing course, fits here:

 



     Pastor John Ezra was a third generation preacher. In Kentucky, as in most of the South and bordering states, the clergy preached fire and brimstone sermons. In a tobacco and distillery economy some subjects were taboo. This was a given. Because of this, most preachers had something besides tobacco or drinking that they got very passionate about. Pastor John Ezra was no different, with him his passionate sermons were on gambling.

     The church he pastored was facing some difficulties. Membership had dropped off, families have moved away. The area was experiencing a decline in population. One of the regulars in his church was Tommy Finley. Tommy was there almost every Sunday and enjoyed the fire and brimstone sermons, seeing some valid points in them -despite Tommy’s love of playing the lotto most every week.  Tommy had been involved with race horses and casinos in the past and knew a little more about gambling than the average person.

     Pastor Jon and Tommy had met for lunch and were discussing a tobacco mart down the road. In Kentucky tobaccos stores are a very bi business, as even with the latest tax increases the tax per pack and per carton still made Kentucky cigarettes less expensive than the cost in surrounding states. These stores sold discount cigarettes and other tobacco products, discount liquor, and lottery tickets. This was on top of the other knick- knacks common to convenience stores along highways.

     “You gotta love it”, Tommy said as he looked at the Pastor.
      “What’s that”, asked Pastor John?
     “Well, just look around you. We see cigarettes, liquor, flyers for horse farms that raise race horses, lottery tickets, and look on the window. Flyers for upcoming events at two Baptist churches.”
 
  




     “You don’t see that as kind of ironic, or see the humor in it?”, asked Tommy.
     “Gladly take in tobacco money or liquor money from your congregation and preach against the lottery?”
     “It’s gambling”, said Pastor John.
      Tommy said, “Look, I’m not talking about casinos and enticing people to play their whole paycheck on video poker, trying to win an $1100.00 Royal Flush. Unlikely that would change anyone’s life - but the casino owners. As they make more and more. I’m talking about working stiffs playing a buck or two on a lottery ticket because it gives them just a little bit of hope. You see this everyday I casinos, when people walk out, most of them look angry. Of course they do, most of them lost. When people leave a lotto place, especially when there’s a huge jackpot, they walk out with hope on their face.”
     “It’s still gambling, “ Pastor John said.
     “I’m not saying it isn’t,” remarked Tommy. “I’m saying far better to risk a dollar or two trying to change your life than risking paycheck after paycheck to get even. Read a lottery ticket, the remark about proceeds from the lottery benefit all Kentuckians. Proceeds from the casinos go to the casino corporations, most out of state. Big difference.”   
     Pastor John said, “So you’re opposed to casinos but pro-lottery.”
     “Not exactly”, said Tommy. “I’m just saying casinos promise a bunch of spin off business. Then after they’re up and operating, they open their own restaurants which takes away from the businesses in town, to the point they eventually close.”
     “The thing is”, said Tommy, “if three people from your church were to come in here right now, and one buys cigarettes, one buys a bottle of booze, and one buys a lottery ticket, you’d preach to the one with a lottery ticket and say hello to the other two.”
     “Well yeah”, said Pastor John.






     They had finished lunch and Tommy said he wanted to get one more cup of coffee and make some phone calls. Pastor John said he had a few stops to make and went out to his car and left.
Tommy got another coffee and grabbed a newspaper, noticing that the Powerball jackpot was
$75,000,000. He remembered the old adage about how even a blind hog could find an acorn eery now and then and decided to spend a couple of dollars to” benefit all Kentuckians.”

     Powerball is played by picking five out of 53 numbers in the top box of a powerball slip, and 1 number of 42 on the bottom. Hitting the five of five on the top portion wins $100,000. Adding the winning powerball number to those five takes the prize up by millions, literally.

     Tommy chose five numbers, and the powerball number. He repeated one of the first five as the powerball number, just on a hunch. He thought about how much he’d give to Pastor John and his church if he won, but to do that the media would make a big affair out of it. Not only that, the taxes would really be sticky. He couldn’t give that much away anonymously.  Tommy came up with a better idea. H gave the clerk three dollars and said, “Can you play this same ticket three times?”.  The clerk said, “Sure” as she knew people always played tickets for other people, especially of they were out of state people. As she handed him the tickets and said, “Good luck” he gave one back to her and said, “This is for you, I want someone rooting for those numbers”. Tommy thought 75 million for one person was a bit much, splitting it would be better.
She thanked him and he left, taking the other two tickets.

     The Saturday night of the drawing, Tommy watched it on TV and one by one the numbers were selected. 7 - 24 - 27- 29 - 41 and the powerball, 24. Tommy checked his tickets. (So did the store clerk at her home!) Then he checked and rechecked.




     Tommy didn’t  sleep much that night, neither did that store clerk!  He made it a point to get to Pastor John’s church on time, sat there and listened to sermon on the lottery. He kind of had hunch that’s what it would be on, as Pastor John often used those lunches as ideas for the next Sunday’s sermon.
     When it came time for the offering basket to be passed around and it came to Tommy, he took out a $20 bill and wrapped it around the other winning lottery ticket and dropped them in the basket....




 


    
      

    

    

 

And you can bet the Pastor wouldn't turn down that lottery ticket and he can always justify it by the fact that he didn't buy the ticket but was given it.  I've yet to see any Scripture that tells us we can't spend a buck on a lottery ticket and that a church should turn down donations given to them because it came from gambling.  Do they turn down money from casino owners?  Liquor store owners?  Bar owners?  Very hypocritical behavior of these Christians to treat this couple so badly.

Bryan's avatarBryan

As it was said earlier by Stephi, there is nothing in the bible that forbids gambling, but it does warn of some of the sins that can accompany the act of gambling, like greed and such. It also says things like drink wine, but do not get drunk. The point being, if these people played on a whim, like it sounds in the story, then what is the problem? The only one with the problem here is the pastor of the church. Unless these people lied about how involved they were in the lottery and it caused them to have things like greed in their lives and now they are having to lie about it to save face they have absolutely no reason to feel guilty. none at all.

Like advice by others, give your 10% to another church who will be blessed by the offering. And stop feeling guilty...

Just another view,

Bryan  :)

justxploring's avatarjustxploring

Quote: Originally posted by emilyg on Sep 5, 2006

congratulations!!!  change churches.

A true cat - comes right to the point.  

 

Todd, think I'll stick to talking about the lottery, not politics. However,  I do agree with you that Hillary Clinton won't win. I read your blog from time to time, and you can't possibly say you aren't judgmental.  You tore my head off once when I criticized George Bush, Our Savior's self-appointed personal messenger. I don't think I've heard more lies from an administration since the Nixon years. By the way, the station you say is the "only" news to watch is probably the most biased and unreliable channel in television history.  I'll be watching the local news and change to MSNBC and CNN and listen to Public Broadcasting and Fox is the only station with "exclusive stories" that must have happened when the rest of the world was sleeping.  There's a difference between making a point and making one up. You also wrote above that you like to be referred to as a "Conservative" not a "Republican." Yet, in many of your comments you write "Democrats & Liberals" as if the 2 terms are synonymous.  I am not a Liberal, yet I've always been a Democrat. This is your board, so write what you think, think what you feel, feel what you want. It doesn't make it so.

Psykomo - I respect the military, every branch including the National Guard. When did it become un-American for a citizen in the United States to disagree with foreign policy? When did it become a sin to oppose violence? Many people who pray to God everyday and night, who are much more passionate about their faith than I could ever be, are pacifists who oppose the war in Iraq. Many of them are U.S. soldiers. Take for example IVAW (Iraq Veterans Against the War)  Suddenly, someone who has lost an eye or maybe a limb fighting for our country is un-American?  Maybe Max Cleland, a former Senator and a Democrat who lost both his legs and one arm in Viet Nam and who supported John Kerry also hates America, because he speaks the Truth. If it wasn't so comical it would be pathetic how the Republicans slander Democrat war heroes while they have a leader who didn't even show up for duty because he was one of the privileged brats who used his family connections to avoid a tour of duty. So what has Mr. Bush sacrificed? Well, he has given up a few golfing days but that's the price you pay for being the Chief.

dvdiva's avatardvdiva

Being an athiest I wouldn't be in this delima. I doubted they cared that much either since they cashed the ticket.

As far as the rest of the politics on this discussion I'd say Kerry only would know how to defame people serving just like he did in Vietnam. Going into Iraq was a very serious mistake but the people we are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are truely evil and insane. Any culture that dresses it's children up with fake bombs (or real ones in some cases), has actual slaves in 2006 and stones to death gays deserves to be wiped off the face of the earth. Cultural diversity does not include having your throat cut because you are too afraid to stand up for what's right. 

Todd's avatarTodd

I appreciate your comments JE, but I think you read in my blog what you are expecting or want to read.  I am very careful in my selection of words.  I have not said the liberals and Democrats are the same thing, although they are very often aligned.  There are actually some good Democrats out there.

Good meaning if you put them in power I would not fear for my safety.

You sound like many people I have heard speak about Fox News as "biased", and I'm sorry to say that you are gravely mistaken.  You ignore all the facts with that statement -- from people on the inside who have come clean -- but my guess is that you are more interested in holding to certain "truths" than in opening your mind to alternative viewpoints.

I used to think a lot more like you do, so I have traveled down a long path to arrive where I am in life.  (Calling it a road to enlightenment sounds pretentious, so I won't call it that.)  Whatever paths you choose in life, I wish you the best.

Todd's avatarTodd

And JE, your example using the maimed Democrat Senator is fairly meaningless in the scheme of things.  You can selectively pick out people who go against the grain in any situation, yes, even including the military.

To say that your example proves anything is ludicrous.  Let's see what happens if you bring your world views into any gathering a service men or women, and see what kind of reception you get.  I don't think your posterboy Democrats will be very popular.

emilyg's avataremilyg

Americans killed on 9-11 -  2,819

Americans killed in Iraq    -  2,652 and counting

 

are we safer???  Hezbollah has survived, Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons, Taliban and al Qaeda are on the march in Afghanistan and terror cells are all over Western Europe and elsewhere.

othertrucker's avatarothertrucker

FIND A NEW CHURCH!

hsvscubaski

And we can't take military action against Iran because of the damaged caused to our country by the bleeding heart liberals like John Kerry and John Murtha.

 

Nuc em till they glow and shot them in the dark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by emilyg on Sep 6, 2006

Americans killed on 9-11 -  2,819

Americans killed in Iraq    -  2,652 and counting

 

are we safer???  Hezbollah has survived, Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons, Taliban and al Qaeda are on the march in Afghanistan and terror cells are all over Western Europe and elsewhere.

Yes, and imagine is John Kerry or Al Gore were president.  It's bad enough that all these terror groups grew to enormous strength under Bill Clinton for eight years, now they are like roaches trying to stamp them out.

Emily, how about you show the number of Americans killed in car crashes every year too?  Or maybe the number of murders in America each year?  I'm really not sure what the purpose of your numbers are.  They certainly don't have any bearing on this.  (I especially like your morbid "and counting".)

In WWII, why don't you compare the number of people killed in Pearl Harbor to the number who died fighting in Europe?  Because that's what your little comparison amounts to.

A much better comparison is:

Americans killed by terrorists in the USA on 9-11 - 2,819

Americans killed by terrorists in the USA since 9-11 - 0 ... and holding

hsvscubaski

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Sep 6, 2006

Yes, and imagine is John Kerry or Al Gore were president.  It's bad enough that all these terror groups grew to enormous strength under Bill Clinton for eight years, now they are like roaches trying to stamp them out.

Emily, how about you show the number of Americans killed in car crashes every year too?  Or maybe the number of murders in America each year?  I'm really not sure what the purpose of your numbers are.  They certainly don't have any bearing on this.  (I especially like your morbid "and counting".)

In WWII, why don't you compare the number of people killed in Pearl Harbor to the number who died fighting in Europe?  Because that's what your little comparison amounts to.

A much better comparison is:

Americans killed by terrorists in the USA on 9-11 - 2,819

Americans killed by terrorists in the USA since 9-11 - 0 ... and holding

Also there have not been any attacks like the USS Cole or Marine Corp Barracks overseas

truecritic's avatartruecritic

A) Iraq War and 911 are 2 different things.   I don't believe a direct relationship, regardless what some news stations might say.  Yes, go kill Osama and gang.  No, the war should have never been started. 

B) If George Bush wants the war so badly, put him on the front lines and let him at it.  Let him stay the course and finish the job and bring our soldiers home!

C) Saddam had people killed that he felt were enemies.  George Bush declares a war to kill people he feels are enemies.  George is OK otherwise - but certainly guilty of this.

D) Iraq is a sovereign Country - should of just let Saddam run it.  Too bad we didn't like the way he did it.  The average Iraqi is either dead or worse off if still alive.  We have made a shambles of their Country.  We have dead soldiers.  And we have less money.  At the rate of $271 Million per day, I'd rather the Government gave every adult here $1 million dollars everyday.  Why would anyone in their right mind want to spend the money over there?  Why would I want to suffer even more than I already was - now prices are climbing higher due to the war.   It was hard enough to exist before.  I am suffering for Iraqis I don't know or will never meet.  We all are - the national debt is higher than I care to count.  Stupid. 

E) The U.S. could still have zero terrorist attacks after 911 without any connection to the Iraq war.  All the same measures could have been put in place.  Not only that but we would have a few more soldiers that would be alive and useful in defending our borders.

Franklassgirl30's avatarFranklassgirl30

Congrats on your winnings!!!  I am a North Carolina resident also, and I can't wait until it's my turn to win.  Enjoy your winnings, and to heck with what other people say and think!!! Thumbs Up

keta11

Truecritic,

I could not agree with you more.

If anyone tells you their proximity to the WTC makes them right about the Republican's foreign policy, laugh in their face. Ask him why Bush's job approvel rating in NYC and NJ suburbs is at 25%. The Republicans dont win in NY/ NJ where the most lives were lost 9-11 because thinking people there know they are wrong in their policies.

Invading and occupying Iraq at an estimated cost of $1-2 trillion when it is all over is the most foolish policy for fighting terrorism. Do you know how many people in different Arab countries are looking at the killing going on in Iraq and are deciding to retaliate later on??

That money could be better spent building roads, schools etc here ast home.

There have not been any terrorist attacks for 5 years, so what?? 9-11 happened on Bush's watch! There were no terrorist attacks on the homeland between 1993 and 2001---> Clinton kept us safe for 8 years, longer than Bush's 5 years!! Will you give him that???

Look at the daily terrorist attacks going on in Iraq now and the lives and treasure being lost over there.

It is ridiculous that people are still impressed by the mess the Republicans have made of our foreign and domestic policy in the last 6 years.  Everywhere you turn in the world there is crises that the current Administration is incompetent to solve. They are good at propagandizing the American people and winning elections but cant't govern. Republicans are no more patriotic than any Democrat!!

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by keta11 on Sep 6, 2006

Truecritic,

I could not agree with you more.

If anyone tells you their proximity to the WTC makes them right about the Republican's foreign policy, laugh in their face. Ask him why Bush's job approvel rating in NYC and NJ suburbs is at 25%. The Republicans dont win in NY/ NJ where the most lives were lost 9-11 because thinking people there know they are wrong in their policies.

Invading and occupying Iraq at an estimated cost of $1-2 trillion when it is all over is the most foolish policy for fighting terrorism. Do you know how many people in different Arab countries are looking at the killing going on in Iraq and are deciding to retaliate later on??

That money could be better spent building roads, schools etc here ast home.

There have not been any terrorist attacks for 5 years, so what?? 9-11 happened on Bush's watch! There were no terrorist attacks on the homeland between 1993 and 2001---> Clinton kept us safe for 8 years, longer than Bush's 5 years!! Will you give him that???

Look at the daily terrorist attacks going on in Iraq now and the lives and treasure being lost over there.

It is ridiculous that people are still impressed by the mess the Republicans have made of our foreign and domestic policy in the last 6 years.  Everywhere you turn in the world there is crises that the current Administration is incompetent to solve. They are good at propagandizing the American people and winning elections but cant't govern. Republicans are no more patriotic than any Democrat!!

So, you want to say, "If anyone tells you their proximity to the WTC makes them right about the Republican's foreign policy..."?

I assume I am the "anyone" you're referring to, since nobody else has mentioned their proximity to the WTC.

I don't care what wacky fairy tales you want to believe in, that's your business, but your backhanded, idiotic insult to me will not be forgotten.

You and I have a very different idea of what patriotism means.  Now go burn your flag.

keta11

Go burn a flag? Are you one of those Sean Hannity/ WABC 770 ditto-heads???

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by keta11 on Sep 6, 2006

Go burn a flag? Are you one of those Sean Hannity/ WABC 770 ditto-heads???

Ditto-heads?  Are you a reader of the New York Times?

keta11

Yeah, I read the Times and the Washington Post, The New Republic, The Nation etc. They are fair and even leaning right these days. I do not watch Fox News and I have broken a few TV and radio sets because Dumbya came on... 

What else do you want to know? Liberals are just as American as far right-wing people. You guys do not own this country.

Anyway lets leave it there. I do not want you to ban me from your website because we disagree politically. 

Tenaj's avatarTenaj

Yes NodYou know guys, a political view is a personal thing.  We all believe according to where we are at the time.....our experiences, our intelligences, our way of being, our bank accounts,.....our life and most times the color of our skin.  When someone states their political view to me, I always try to understand why they personally think that way, where they get their information, what's floating around in the papers, CNN and what techniques are used by our leaders and the media to sway the thinking of gullible people and the arrogant, educated, money in their pockets wannebees, who are just as gullible as the uneducated but don't know it.  When a person is so fervent about their political views that they can not tolerant the views of others is just what the politicians want.  A smoke screen.  It makes us blind to the real issues and their corruption.

Regardless of how we got there, we need to respect others political views or don't state them at all.  Politicians sometimes use our own hatreds of other people and fear to put them in office.  I was called "a bleeding heart liberal" because I said that we should be careful about calling illegal immigrants "wetbacks" and other derogatory names.

I got personally attacked in my blog because I posted historical facts unfavorably to the founding fathers.  Go figure.  But a person like me normally will feel that way about the founding fathers, and the person who attacked me would normally feel the way they do about the founding fathers.    

But it's politics, that's all.   It's corruption and we should look at it as being just that and try to eliminate as much of it as we can.  But how can we see the corruption if we fight among ourselves?

We need to start recognizing the corruption of our leaders and pay attention to those who bring it forward for all to see and demand honesty and integrity rather than defending it.  Our country is in the state it is in because of corrupt leaders since the beginning. 

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by keta11 on Sep 6, 2006

Yeah, I read the Times and the Washington Post, The New Republic, The Nation etc. They are fair and even leaning right these days. I do not watch Fox News and I have broken a few TV and radio sets because Dumbya came on... 

What else do you want to know? Liberals are just as American as far right-wing people. You guys do not own this country.

Anyway lets leave it there. I do not want you to ban me from your website because we disagree politically. 

Ha, ha, ha!!  Thanks for the good laugh today! ROFL

Calling the New York Times "fair and even leaning right" was just the bomb!

Yes, liberals may be Americans, but being liberal does not make one patriotic.

The definition of patriotic is "Devoted love, support, and defense of one's country."  (Look it up in the dictionary if those words don't ring a bell.)

Protesting everything and calling the President a liar does not count as any of those things.

Once liberals start doing things that defend this country, I'll start calling them patriotic.  I know that's a pretty general statement, and not ALL liberals fit that statement, so my deepest apologies to those liberals who are clearly patriotic.  I just wish there were more of them.

What else do you want to know?  I know that we conservatives are nothing but anti-environment, greedy, war-loving, business-oriented jerks, but hopefully you'll allow us to pay for your next anti-religion dung artwork display to make up for it.

Todd's avatarTodd

Yes Tenaj, every time you post lies about the founding fathers I will hold you to it.  I hope you'll stop lying about them and spewing your propaganda.

Tenaj's avatarTenaj

Quote: Originally posted by keta11 on Sep 6, 2006

Truecritic,

I could not agree with you more.

If anyone tells you their proximity to the WTC makes them right about the Republican's foreign policy, laugh in their face. Ask him why Bush's job approvel rating in NYC and NJ suburbs is at 25%. The Republicans dont win in NY/ NJ where the most lives were lost 9-11 because thinking people there know they are wrong in their policies.

Invading and occupying Iraq at an estimated cost of $1-2 trillion when it is all over is the most foolish policy for fighting terrorism. Do you know how many people in different Arab countries are looking at the killing going on in Iraq and are deciding to retaliate later on??

That money could be better spent building roads, schools etc here ast home.

There have not been any terrorist attacks for 5 years, so what?? 9-11 happened on Bush's watch! There were no terrorist attacks on the homeland between 1993 and 2001---> Clinton kept us safe for 8 years, longer than Bush's 5 years!! Will you give him that???

Look at the daily terrorist attacks going on in Iraq now and the lives and treasure being lost over there.

It is ridiculous that people are still impressed by the mess the Republicans have made of our foreign and domestic policy in the last 6 years.  Everywhere you turn in the world there is crises that the current Administration is incompetent to solve. They are good at propagandizing the American people and winning elections but cant't govern. Republicans are no more patriotic than any Democrat!!

I agree.

hsvscubaski

Quote: Originally posted by keta11 on Sep 6, 2006

Yeah, I read the Times and the Washington Post, The New Republic, The Nation etc. They are fair and even leaning right these days. I do not watch Fox News and I have broken a few TV and radio sets because Dumbya came on... 

What else do you want to know? Liberals are just as American as far right-wing people. You guys do not own this country.

Anyway lets leave it there. I do not want you to ban me from your website because we disagree politically. 

Keta11 and Tenaj

You both have your heads so far up you can see the sunshine through your belely button if you think Sadam wasn't supporting terrorists.  He may not have directly provided assistance to the 9-11 bombers but if we hadn't taken him out there would have been an attack that he directly had a hand in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your views did exist in lesser numbers during WW II but America was more patriotic and committed to doing the right thing than today.

 

Nuc em till they glow and shot them in the dark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

keta11

I guess you didn't call Clinton a liar when he was in office for much less grievious faults. I doubt it by the way you deride Gore, Kerry and other Democrats.

For me, being patriotic does not mean supporting the Republican Party  and my country, right or wrong. Thank God I know and I am confident that I do not need to be Republican or Conservative to be a patriotic American.

Hitler stormed accross Europe for 4 years with all those patriotic Germans rooting the Nazi charade on, look the ruin he brought to his country.

hsvscubaski

Quote: Originally posted by keta11 on Sep 6, 2006

Yeah, I read the Times and the Washington Post, The New Republic, The Nation etc. They are fair and even leaning right these days. I do not watch Fox News and I have broken a few TV and radio sets because Dumbya came on... 

What else do you want to know? Liberals are just as American as far right-wing people. You guys do not own this country.

Anyway lets leave it there. I do not want you to ban me from your website because we disagree politically. 

Fox News programs are fair and balanced!!!!!!!!!! There opinion programs are not all that way.  O'Reilly is definetely to the right.  Hannity and Colmes present a balanced view point both from a host stand point as well as the guests they have on.  I dare you to say that H&C does not present both sides of the issues.

keta11

And you know he was gonna have a hand in some attack in the future how? You see what I am saying - Not supporting the war in Iraq does not make one unpatriotic!!! That war is just a waste of money and will contribute to more hatred and terrorism. Money that should be could be used to in your neighborhood. Attacking a weak country that didn't do anything to you just because you can does not solve the problem.

keta11

Do you call Dog and Pony shows like Beltway Boys, WSJ Editorial fair and balanced? Hannity & Colmes is the type of show where they do a show around a topic like "George W. Bush: Great President or Greatest President?" for one hour with Alan Colmes taking the Great side.

I am done with politics here, I do not wanna offend people. 

Tenaj's avatarTenaj

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Sep 6, 2006

Yes Tenaj, every time you post lies about the founding fathers I will hold you to it.  I hope you'll stop lying about them and spewing your propaganda.

What?Hold me to it? Hold the facts to it! PROVE they were lies! And I hope you'll stop lying about them and spewing your progaganda as well.   

Granted there are some lies in our history books (considering who wrote them), mostly ommissions but for the most part it is all we have of our history being that we weren't there.

weshar75's avatarweshar75

I want to extend my congrats to the Sigmon's For winning.  I hope they do not lose too much sleep over winning because I do not think that the world is full of perfect people.  So I hope that they enjoy this win because it does not come around too often in life.-weshar75

konane's avatarkonane

Todd, as always you have the final say about whether a post should be in a blog, but since the subject of Iraq and our involvement in it is at hand here is a link to a library of pre-war documents belonging to Saddam which have been recently translated.

Upper case is how they were listed, so begging everyone's forgiveness for that they can be found at the link provided below.  Lots of reading, I haven't read all of them.


"TRANSLATED PRE-WAR IRAQ DOCUMENTS:

I. SADDAM TERRORIST REGIME: TRANSLATED DOCUMENTS SHOWING WITHOUT A SHADOW OF DOUBT THAT SADDAM REGIME IS A TERRORIST REGIME

II. SADDAM REGIME WMD PROGRAMS: TRANSLATED DOCUMENTS THAT SHOW SADDAM REGIME CONTINUOUS WORK ON WMD PROGRAMS AND ACTIVITIES, POTENTIAL STOCKS OF CHEMICALS WEAPONS (CALLED SPECIAL AMMUNITION), AND DECEPTION OF THE U.N INSPECTORS ABOUT HIS WMD PROGRAMS AND ACTIVITIES.

 III. MISCELLANEOUS DOCUMENTS TRANSLATIONS "

http://www.freerepublic.com/~jveritas/

hsvscubaski

Quote: Originally posted by Tenaj on Sep 6, 2006

What?Hold me to it? Hold the facts to it! PROVE they were lies! And I hope you'll stop lying about them and spewing your progaganda as well.   

Granted there are some lies in our history books (considering who wrote them), mostly ommissions but for the most part it is all we have of our history being that we weren't there.


Lies?  They found Chemical Weapons!! The responce   They are old and ineffective.  Would you volunteer to go into a romm and let me punch a hole in them?

THEY DID FIND WMDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also as I said earlier Sudam was using the Oil for Food money to support Terrorists and would have attacked us on our land.  That was reason enought to take him out

 

 

Nuc em till they glow and shot them in the dark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

keta11

Freerepublic????

If those documents proved anything, I bet you the administartion would be doing their darndest to promote them to the public/electorate. They will not be reposing at Freerepublic. 

keta11

Might does not make right.

Keep that attitude up when a country with superior arms from outer space discovers us and a few months before an election decides, their President decides he likes being a War President, does not like the President of the USA BLAH, BLAH and tables a resolution before their Assembly to to go "take him out" and come and bombs us with shock & awe. See how you like it.

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by keta11 on Sep 6, 2006

I guess you didn't call Clinton a liar when he was in office for much less grievious faults. I doubt it by the way you deride Gore, Kerry and other Democrats.

For me, being patriotic does not mean supporting the Republican Party  and my country, right or wrong. Thank God I know and I am confident that I do not need to be Republican or Conservative to be a patriotic American.

Hitler stormed accross Europe for 4 years with all those patriotic Germans rooting the Nazi charade on, look the ruin he brought to his country.

Clinton WAS a liar!  Another big laugher from you!!! LOL

And you really need some history lessons, because you have NO CLUE what you're talking about as far as Nazis are concerned.  You sound VERY YOUNG.

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Tenaj on Sep 6, 2006

What?Hold me to it? Hold the facts to it! PROVE they were lies! And I hope you'll stop lying about them and spewing your progaganda as well.   

Granted there are some lies in our history books (considering who wrote them), mostly ommissions but for the most part it is all we have of our history being that we weren't there.

Boy Tenaj, you really cut me to the quick! LOL

You know as much about history as keta11.

keta11

If you call 37 young, I am a young. You are going to give a Civil War/ WW1/ WW2 buff/ hobbyist history lesson. How presumptous of you?

Rick G's avatarRick G

Quote: Originally posted by hsvscubaski on Sep 6, 2006

And we can't take military action against Iran because of the damaged caused to our country by the bleeding heart liberals like John Kerry and John Murtha.

 

Nuc em till they glow and shot them in the dark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

John Kerry is responsible for Iran and its nuclear ambitions?

"Nuc em till they glow and shot (sic) em in the dark!!!!!!!"   ?????

 

This mindset is the problem, not the solution.

konane's avatarkonane

Quote: Originally posted by keta11 on Sep 6, 2006

Freerepublic????

If those documents proved anything, I bet you the administartion would be doing their darndest to promote them to the public/electorate. They will not be reposing at Freerepublic. 

Guffaw all you want to .... Israeli Intelligence which is the best in the world and expert on Middle East terrorism tracked the flow of WMD's out of Iraq into Syria and the Bekka Valley, Lebanon prior to the US going in to topple Saddam.  Rest assured our intelligence is watching this area like a hawk biding time.  Too many substantiating reports in that direction.  Also in my blog I've posted articles about insecticides having been found in non-agricultural areas .... insecticides being pre-cursors to nerve gas.  No WMD's .... yes they've been found and documents translated to anyone who has a mind open enough to accept truth.  They're archived at FreeRepublic at the link provided.



"UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after

 

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Friday, June 11, 2004
"The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council on new findings that could help trace the whereabouts of Saddam's missile and WMD program.

The briefing contained satellite photographs that demonstrated the speed with which Saddam dismantled his missile and WMD sites before and during the war. Council members were shown photographs of a ballistic missile site outside Baghdad in May 2003, and then saw a satellite image of the same location in February 2004, in which facilities had disappeared.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UNMOVIC acting executive chairman Demetrius Perricos told the council on June 9 that "the only controls at the borders are for the weight of the scrap metal, and to check whether there are any explosive or radioactive materials within the scrap," Middle East Newsline reported.
"It's being exported," Perricos said after the briefing. "It's being traded out. And there is a large variety of scrap metal from very new to very old, and slowly, it seems the country is depleted of metal."

"The removal of these materials from Iraq raises concerns with regard to proliferation risks," Perricos told the council. Perricos also reported that inspectors found Iraqi WMD and missile components shipped abroad that still contained UN inspection tags.

He said the Iraqi facilities were dismantled and sent both to Europe and around the Middle East. at the rate of about 1,000 tons of metal a month. Destionations included Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tuesday, August 26, 2003 : Report: U.S suspects Iraqi WMD in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Baghdad missile site contained a range of WMD and dual-use components, UN officials said. They included missile components, reactor vessel and fermenters - the latter required for the production of chemical and biological warheads.
"It raises the question of what happened to the dual-use equipment, where is it now and what is it being used for," Ewen Buchanan, Perricos's spokesman, said. "You can make all kinds of pharmaceutical and medicinal products with a fermenter. You can also use it to breed anthrax."

The UNMOVIC report said Iraqi missiles were dismantled and exported to such countries as Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey. In the Dutch city of Rotterdam, an SA-2 surface-to-air missile, one of at least 12, was discovered in a junk yard, replete with UN tags. In Jordan, UN inspectors found 20 SA-2 engines as well as components for solid-fuel for missiles.

"The problem for us is that we don't know what may have passed through these yards and other yards elsewhere," Buchanan said. "We can't really assess the significance and don't know the full extent of activity that could be going on there or with others of Iraq's neighbors."

UN inspectors have assessed that the SA-2 and the short-range Al Samoud surface-to-surface missile were shipped abroad by agents of the Saddam regime. Buchanan said UNMOVIC plans to inspect other sites, including in Turkey.

In April, International Atomic Energy Agency director-general Mohammed El Baradei said material from Iraqi nuclear facilities were being smuggled out of the country. "

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html  

Todd's avatarTodd

Awesome job Konane!

Your blog is one of the most informative I've read.  It certainly puts mine to shame!  Thanks for sifting through the mass of information out there and posting such relevant information.

konane's avatarkonane

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Sep 6, 2006

Awesome job Konane!

Your blog is one of the most informative I've read.  It certainly puts mine to shame!  Thanks for sifting through the mass of information out there and posting such relevant information.

Sincere thanks for allowing my blog!  Actually it's been a good thing .... both my reading and typing speed have dramatically increased, along with ability to gain a clear picture of what's going on below the radar.  Big Grin

Tenaj's avatarTenaj

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Sep 6, 2006

Boy Tenaj, you really cut me to the quick! LOL

You know as much about history as keta11.

No, I'm not a history expert, but I know enough to know that "freedom and equality for all"  have not happened in this country and probably never will.  

I have seen it not happen in my lifetime, and not from history books.  And I don't have to tell you what movements they were.  You went to school.

DoubleDown

Quote: Originally posted by Tenaj on Sep 6, 2006

No, I'm not a history expert, but I know enough to know that "freedom and equality for all"  have not happened in this country and probably never will.  

I have seen it not happen in my lifetime, and not from history books.  And I don't have to tell you what movements they were.  You went to school.

Tenaj, everyone.... We cannot change what did or didn't happen in the past, so lets please stop living in it.

Let's live for today and plan for tomorrow...ok ?

Speaking of tomorrow, It will be my honor and privilige to see our Commander -in- Chief as he makes an appearance in Savannah .

As a proud parent of a United States Navy Petty Officer, I stand beside my son and my country and my President 100%.

Looking forward to seeing President Bush tomorrow...

DD   Patriot

Rick G's avatarRick G

Quote: Originally posted by DoubleDown on Sep 6, 2006

Tenaj, everyone.... We cannot change what did or didn't happen in the past, so lets please stop living in it.

Let's live for today and plan for tomorrow...ok ?

Speaking of tomorrow, It will be my honor and privilige to see our Commander -in- Chief as he makes an appearance in Savannah .

As a proud parent of a United States Navy Petty Officer, I stand beside my son and my country and my President 100%.

Looking forward to seeing President Bush tomorrow...

DD   Patriot

DD,

I stand beside your son and our country 100% as well.  Have a good day tomorrow.

DoubleDown

Quote: Originally posted by Rick G on Sep 6, 2006

DD,

I stand beside your son and our country 100% as well.  Have a good day tomorrow.

Thanks Rick....Thumbs Up

 

You too !!!

Tenaj's avatarTenaj

Quote: Originally posted by DoubleDown on Sep 6, 2006

Tenaj, everyone.... We cannot change what did or didn't happen in the past, so lets please stop living in it.

Let's live for today and plan for tomorrow...ok ?

Speaking of tomorrow, It will be my honor and privilige to see our Commander -in- Chief as he makes an appearance in Savannah .

As a proud parent of a United States Navy Petty Officer, I stand beside my son and my country and my President 100%.

Looking forward to seeing President Bush tomorrow...

DD   Patriot

As long as certain people sing "carry me back to old Viginny" I'm going right back there with them to shack them back in reality.    Otherwise, I could care less.  Don't start nothin, it won't be nothin.

DoubleDown

Quote: Originally posted by Tenaj on Sep 6, 2006

As long as certain people sing "carry me back to old Viginny" I'm going right back there with them to shack them back in reality.    Otherwise, I could care less.  Don't start nothin, it won't be nothin.

I don't know anyone singing that or any other song, but what I do know is we have people fighting to defend our freedom to sit here and communicate freely with each other and we should all be thankful and supportive and not spend time in the past tense.

You can "shack" ( I think you meant shake) people all you want to but they are molded into what they are and you can't change them.

 

Peace...

DD 

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Tenaj on Sep 6, 2006

No, I'm not a history expert, but I know enough to know that "freedom and equality for all"  have not happened in this country and probably never will.  

I have seen it not happen in my lifetime, and not from history books.  And I don't have to tell you what movements they were.  You went to school.

Oh, please, I can hear the violins playing right now. No Pity!

Let's everyone sing a chorus together, as we have a resounding pity party for Janet.  She is not free or equal, and she really needs our sympathy.

Puke

You wouldn't know "freedom and equality for all" if it stood on your nose, because that enormous chip on your shoulder is all you can think about.

Tenaj's avatarTenaj

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on Sep 6, 2006

Oh, please, I can hear the violins playing right now. No Pity!

Let's everyone sing a chorus together, as we have a resounding pity party for Janet.  She is not free or equal, and she really needs our sympathy.

Puke

You wouldn't know "freedom and equality for all" if it stood on your nose, because that enormous chip on your shoulder is all you can think about.

Big SmileIf your groupies sing a chorus it probably will be off key, with the wrong melody and they would definitely get the words wrong.

Rick G's avatarRick G

Has this discussion taken a couple of 360's or what?

"Let us end this prayer with the famous words of our brother, Rodney...

'Can't we all just get along?' 

...oh yeah, and please pass the basket, winning lottery tickets are welcome too."

Hallelujah to ya! 

rwsmes's avatarrwsmes

Just give the money back and you will have a clear conscience once again.  Better yet give it to me and I will pray for you...........

hsvscubaski

Quote: Originally posted by Rick G on Sep 6, 2006

John Kerry is responsible for Iran and its nuclear ambitions?

"Nuc em till they glow and shot (sic) em in the dark!!!!!!!"   ?????

 

This mindset is the problem, not the solution.


Yes Kerry and his ilk are resposible.  If we had am united front we could take Iran out. The bleeding heart libs have cut the gvmt off at the knees.  In my mind it is treason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Nuc em till they glow and shoot  em in the dark!!!!!!!"

Rick G's avatarRick G

Quote: Originally posted by hsvscubaski on Sep 7, 2006


Yes Kerry and his ilk are resposible.  If we had am united front we could take Iran out. The bleeding heart libs have cut the gvmt off at the knees.  In my mind it is treason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Nuc em till they glow and shoot  em in the dark!!!!!!!"

You're starting to scare me.  Your cabin isn't near any nuclear missle silos, is it?

justxploring's avatarjustxploring

Quote: Originally posted by Rick G on Sep 6, 2006

DD,

I stand beside your son and our country 100% as well.  Have a good day tomorrow.

So do I DD.  I love the United States of America. God Bless your son!  I respect and pray for the soldiers who defend us.  Again, I guess I'm just pounding my head against a brick wall when I repeat that disagreeing with foreign policy or the actions of an administration has nothing to do with being a proud American or supporting the troops. 

I lost someone dear to me in Viet Nam. Although I can't imagine losing a child, Cindy Sheehan said  "I’m just a broken-hearted mother” and certainly wasn't a bleeding heart Liberal or any of the things people here call members who believe in bringing the troops home. But that is exactly what the Religious Right has programmed people to do. This "new" Christianity isn't about love, God and following the peaceful teachings of Christ. It's about political control, money, oil, power, and promoting violence & senseless killing as some kind of ticket to Heaven.

BTW, I don't know if anyone ever posted it before, but there's a cool site called www.letssaythanks.com that is legitimate, not a scam.  Xerox started it a few months ago and will send a free card to the troops.  Just go to it, pick out a design and they'll print and send it for you.  No matter how we feel about the war, we all really need to express our gratitude. It only takes a minute.

Rick G's avatarRick G

Quote: Originally posted by justxploring on Sep 7, 2006

So do I DD.  I love the United States of America. God Bless your son!  I respect and pray for the soldiers who defend us.  Again, I guess I'm just pounding my head against a brick wall when I repeat that disagreeing with foreign policy or the actions of an administration has nothing to do with being a proud American or supporting the troops. 

I lost someone dear to me in Viet Nam. Although I can't imagine losing a child, Cindy Sheehan said  "I’m just a broken-hearted mother” and certainly wasn't a bleeding heart Liberal or any of the things people here call members who believe in bringing the troops home. But that is exactly what the Religious Right has programmed people to do. This "new" Christianity isn't about love, God and following the peaceful teachings of Christ. It's about political control, money, oil, power, and promoting violence & senseless killing as some kind of ticket to Heaven.

BTW, I don't know if anyone ever posted it before, but there's a cool site called www.letssaythanks.com that is legitimate, not a scam.  Xerox started it a few months ago and will send a free card to the troops.  Just go to it, pick out a design and they'll print and send it for you.  No matter how we feel about the war, we all really need to express our gratitude. It only takes a minute.

Nice post Justx.  Regardless of how we feel about this war and how it came about, each and every one of us appreciates the men and women risking their lives daily there.  We can argue all day long about everything else, but these Americans are the real deal and deserve our utmost respect for the sacrifices they have made.

Viet Nam vets deserved the same respect.  One day I'll get off on that tangent but this isn't the time.

To paraphrase Senior, It's not our troops, it's the war, stupid! 

bigdog

The other day, i heard a man chew out his friend because he would not take a stand against abortion . Under the man's arm was a twelve pack of beer. after hearing what he had to say to his friend, i spoke up.

 " When you are done with the morals of abortion, you should take up the morals of alchol.  I have seen the effects of alchol, families being destroyed and children being abused" My sister being beaten by her drunk husband . At the time., Serving MY COUNTRY , iwasn't home to kick his ass. Please excuse!

His remark was "We not going that far"

So as i see it, some people pick and choose what they believe in and others say " Congradulations"

Big Dog says " Congradulations and God Bless " My  sunday school teacher who happen to be be the preachers wife  told our class one sunday " The only sin is when you over indulge in anything, Amen"

"Go in peace and Congradulations"

BigDog......................

LOTTOMIKE's avatarLOTTOMIKE

isn't it funny how we go to church in the first place as a way to feel like we belong to a group of people who will always be there for us no matter what as long as we are good people.i could understand if the person was busted for drugs,stealing or if someone was physically harmed.but to be worried about being casted out over a lottery ticket is really a crying shame.a lil 'ol one dollar lottery ticket.no different that much from bingo.a game of chance.to think that a preacher or people with the church would turn their back on someone or call them a sinner over a lottery ticket is really going overboard.this kind of thinking is what keeps a lot of places from ever advancing.i absolutely refuse to go to a church where i'm judged.i would like to feel comfortable and i'm sure this person does too..........

konane's avatarkonane

Quote: Originally posted by LOTTOMIKE on Sep 7, 2006

isn't it funny how we go to church in the first place as a way to feel like we belong to a group of people who will always be there for us no matter what as long as we are good people.i could understand if the person was busted for drugs,stealing or if someone was physically harmed.but to be worried about being casted out over a lottery ticket is really a crying shame.a lil 'ol one dollar lottery ticket.no different that much from bingo.a game of chance.to think that a preacher or people with the church would turn their back on someone or call them a sinner over a lottery ticket is really going overboard.this kind of thinking is what keeps a lot of places from ever advancing.i absolutely refuse to go to a church where i'm judged.i would like to feel comfortable and i'm sure this person does too..........

If each member of the congregation suddenly had the same amount of money that the winners received ..... it would be a whole different story than the one printed. 
emilyg's avataremilyg

Quote: Originally posted by Rick G on Sep 7, 2006

Nice post Justx.  Regardless of how we feel about this war and how it came about, each and every one of us appreciates the men and women risking their lives daily there.  We can argue all day long about everything else, but these Americans are the real deal and deserve our utmost respect for the sacrifices they have made.

Viet Nam vets deserved the same respect.  One day I'll get off on that tangent but this isn't the time.

To paraphrase Senior, It's not our troops, it's the war, stupid! 

Exactly  justx and rick

Bradly_60's avatarBradly_60

Seriously what the hell happened to his post.  It was supposed to be on people buying lottery tickets, winning, and having to be looked down upon for it.  How did it get this far?  Crazy.....haha

Brad

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Bradly_60 on Sep 5, 2006

That does show how narrow minded North Carolinans are.  This always has eerked me.  You can definetly tell that NC is a red state.  Glad I don't live there.

Brad

Brad, FYI, this is where the thread got off track.  It happened on the first page.

delS

WOW!  This story has hit a nerve.  I would venture to believe, a lot of Christians, myself included have posted some comments based on the hypocrisy of thos who have responded to this couple. 

I wish I would win and my church gave the money back.  I'd cancel my membership in a New York minute.  

I could care less wether I won a jackpot or not, I don't live my life based on what the hell people think about my actions. 

NCPicks

If I tried to donate lottery winnings to a church and it was rejected,I'm sure I could find another deserving charity that would accept my money.There are lots of organizations that won't put some false morality in the way of helping the unfortunate.Cancer research or organization like that would be glad to recieve more funding.If your church says no,leave them to themselves.

anniep2

Good Grief!!!!! What the........?? My precious Christian Granny - 94 years old (God rest her soul) was the most righteous person I ever knew and she supported the Lottery coming to NC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what folks.... she was a Baptist!!!!! The hupla is something about the folks drawing lots for Jesus' clothing when He was on the cross. For heaven's sake! We're still drawing lots, and buying insurance, betting them we won't die or get hurt, or get our homes blown away in a tornado. Oh yea, and the 401K thing and the stock market, betting it won't crash! And we're buying lottery tickets, betting we just might win something. For whatever reason, the Baptists have decided that  was a sin.......Well, I've read the Bible, and guess what........there's no mention of it being a sin, it just states that's what they did.   It's really embarrasing that these lucky Christian  people live within 20 miles of me. They shouldn't be eat up with guilt! They should be thanking God for the wonderful blessing! And the folks that are shunning them should probably get their Bibles out and actually read them if they're so righteous and show the winners exactly where it says this is sinful! And then they should go straight to them and ask for forgiveness for their own sin of acting like buttheads!

Good grief!

Clairvoyance's avatarClairvoyance

keta11 Quote: There have not been any terrorist attacks for 5 years, so what?? 9-11 happened on Bush's watch! There were no terrorist attacks on the homeland between 1993 and 2001---> Clinton kept us safe for 8 years, longer than Bush's 5 years!! Will you give him that???

This one really made me laugh!!!! If Clinton wouldn’t of been so busy smoking cigars, messing with interns and staining red dresses and had not disarmed the USA military in the first place the 9-11 attack would not of happened. Bush had to come in and clean up his disgraceful mess! Clinton kept us safe hahahhahahahahha! No he disarmed the military to about nothing that is what he did. Funny all I seem to remember from the Clinton years is cigars, interns, and a stained dress. Oh and also that oral sex is not really Sex! Hmmmmmmmm! Funny how folks forget all the bold faced lies he told right on camera to the world! I’m not a big fan of his!

Kidzmom's avatarKidzmom

Wow!!

I think these guys need to change churches.. My grandmama always said the biggest devils were in the church....Jealousy and Envy and god knows what else has reared it's nasty head.   People have church BINGO all the time.. This is a form of gambling.....duhhhhhhhhhhhhh....  Now you are suppose to give back 10% of your earned income in tithes on a monthly basis.....What ditch did these church people come out of... They gave back that money?!?   Something is not right here.

SIGMON  FAMILY--GET YOU ANOTHER CHURCH AND ANOTHER TOWN FOR THAT MATTER......

Kidzmom's avatarKidzmom

Quote: Originally posted by Bradly_60 on Sep 5, 2006

That does show how narrow minded North Carolinans are.  This always has eerked me.  You can definetly tell that NC is a red state.  Glad I don't live there.

Brad

How dare you group all North Carolinans in one group and say we are narrow minded?  You don't know me from adam and frankly with your narrow minded assumption of the people in North Carolina we are glad you don't live here also!    As for this being a red state....maybe you are related to the politicians here.... ( mmmmmmmm I made that statement without knowing you)

Absence of thought was at work when you wrote that statement!

justxploring's avatarjustxploring

Quote: Originally posted by Clairvoyance on Sep 7, 2006

keta11 Quote: There have not been any terrorist attacks for 5 years, so what?? 9-11 happened on Bush's watch! There were no terrorist attacks on the homeland between 1993 and 2001---> Clinton kept us safe for 8 years, longer than Bush's 5 years!! Will you give him that???

This one really made me laugh!!!! If Clinton wouldn’t of been so busy smoking cigars, messing with interns and staining red dresses and had not disarmed the USA military in the first place the 9-11 attack would not of happened. Bush had to come in and clean up his disgraceful mess! Clinton kept us safe hahahhahahahahha! No he disarmed the military to about nothing that is what he did. Funny all I seem to remember from the Clinton years is cigars, interns, and a stained dress. Oh and also that oral sex is not really Sex! Hmmmmmmmm! Funny how folks forget all the bold faced lies he told right on camera to the world! I’m not a big fan of his!

Clairvoyance, you really need to get your facts straight. I'm not pointing my finger at George W. Bush.  But you really should do your homework before you make comments like that.

When Bush was elected, the Clinton Administration set up a series of briefings to assist with the transition in the White House from Clinton to Bush. In fact, Clinton's Nat'l Security Adviser, Sandy Berger, prepared 10 briefings for Condolezza Rice who was to be his successor.  One of the major concerns was the rise of al-Qaeda. Remember - there was a previous bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993.  In addition, Richard Clarke laid out a broad anti-terrorist plan specifically naming al-Qaeda as a major threat and, as a result, Ms Rice asked him to stay on as head of counterterrorism. She remarked how impressed she was with his expertise on the subject of al-Qaeda and terrorist threats. (this is all documented)

But Clarke said that the Bush team didn't seem to take the threat seriously and had their own interests, commenting that White House officials "were tepid in their response" when he urged them months before Sept. 11 to meet to discuss what he saw as a severe threat from al Qaeda. Even a Republican Senator, Richard Shelby, who was on the Intelligence Committee, said there was advanced warning that attacks were imminent and that the White House should have revealed the warning to the American people earlier.  Yet even after 9/11, Bush continued to look for a link between Iraq and the WTC attacks, despite being told there didn't seem to be one. Please keep in mind that on 9/11 Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were enemies. But somehow Bush & his people were able to convince Americans that these 2 men not only plotted together, but were the same person!  One day I remember asking a friend "since when did Baghdad move to Afghanistan?

Another commission led by former senators Gary Hart and Warren Rudman had issued several reports on national security warning that "mass-casualty terrorism directed against the U.S. homeland was of serious and growing concern'' and to establish a strong Homeland Security Agency and tighten our Borders.

Clinton, Clarke, Berger along with many others warned of these attacks. Could they have been prevented?  I have no idea.  We shouldn't be pointing fingers now at who could have done what then, we need to concentrate our energy on what we can do now

justxploring's avatarjustxploring

Sorry, my post above belongs on a blog, but I'm only replying to other posts.  I never know how long my comment will be until I click on "reply." (feel lucky - I'm going to bed!)

anniep2

I guess 911 and Bush and Clinton have something to do with the folks from Burlington NC being shunned by their church members.........but then again, I'm kinda slow.........I'm from NC

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Clairvoyance on Sep 7, 2006

keta11 Quote: There have not been any terrorist attacks for 5 years, so what?? 9-11 happened on Bush's watch! There were no terrorist attacks on the homeland between 1993 and 2001---> Clinton kept us safe for 8 years, longer than Bush's 5 years!! Will you give him that???

This one really made me laugh!!!! If Clinton wouldn’t of been so busy smoking cigars, messing with interns and staining red dresses and had not disarmed the USA military in the first place the 9-11 attack would not of happened. Bush had to come in and clean up his disgraceful mess! Clinton kept us safe hahahhahahahahha! No he disarmed the military to about nothing that is what he did. Funny all I seem to remember from the Clinton years is cigars, interns, and a stained dress. Oh and also that oral sex is not really Sex! Hmmmmmmmm! Funny how folks forget all the bold faced lies he told right on camera to the world! I’m not a big fan of his!

Nice post Clairvoyance!  Everything you're saying is what actually happened.  I remember all too well being lied to by President Bill Clinton, looking the nation in the face.  He will never be trusted again.

konane's avatarkonane

Quote: Originally posted by justxploring on Sep 8, 2006

Clairvoyance, you really need to get your facts straight. I'm not pointing my finger at George W. Bush.  But you really should do your homework before you make comments like that.

When Bush was elected, the Clinton Administration set up a series of briefings to assist with the transition in the White House from Clinton to Bush. In fact, Clinton's Nat'l Security Adviser, Sandy Berger, prepared 10 briefings for Condolezza Rice who was to be his successor.  One of the major concerns was the rise of al-Qaeda. Remember - there was a previous bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993.  In addition, Richard Clarke laid out a broad anti-terrorist plan specifically naming al-Qaeda as a major threat and, as a result, Ms Rice asked him to stay on as head of counterterrorism. She remarked how impressed she was with his expertise on the subject of al-Qaeda and terrorist threats. (this is all documented)

But Clarke said that the Bush team didn't seem to take the threat seriously and had their own interests, commenting that White House officials "were tepid in their response" when he urged them months before Sept. 11 to meet to discuss what he saw as a severe threat from al Qaeda. Even a Republican Senator, Richard Shelby, who was on the Intelligence Committee, said there was advanced warning that attacks were imminent and that the White House should have revealed the warning to the American people earlier.  Yet even after 9/11, Bush continued to look for a link between Iraq and the WTC attacks, despite being told there didn't seem to be one. Please keep in mind that on 9/11 Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were enemies. But somehow Bush & his people were able to convince Americans that these 2 men not only plotted together, but were the same person!  One day I remember asking a friend "since when did Baghdad move to Afghanistan?

Another commission led by former senators Gary Hart and Warren Rudman had issued several reports on national security warning that "mass-casualty terrorism directed against the U.S. homeland was of serious and growing concern'' and to establish a strong Homeland Security Agency and tighten our Borders.

Clinton, Clarke, Berger along with many others warned of these attacks. Could they have been prevented?  I have no idea.  We shouldn't be pointing fingers now at who could have done what then, we need to concentrate our energy on what we can do now

You need to be refreshed on a little history timeline. 


Events leading up to 9-11    https://blogs.lotterypost.com/konane/2006/09/events-leading-up-to-9-11.htm


Also Clinton, not GW, turned down bin Laden when Mansour Ijaz was approached by the Sudan to act as an intermediary with the US State Department to offer bin Laden to Clinton. 

Clinton was holding it when it broke. 


 Clinton audio soundfile    http://www.newsmax.com/clinton2.mp3

hsvscubaski

Quote: Originally posted by justxploring on Sep 8, 2006

Clairvoyance, you really need to get your facts straight. I'm not pointing my finger at George W. Bush.  But you really should do your homework before you make comments like that.

When Bush was elected, the Clinton Administration set up a series of briefings to assist with the transition in the White House from Clinton to Bush. In fact, Clinton's Nat'l Security Adviser, Sandy Berger, prepared 10 briefings for Condolezza Rice who was to be his successor.  One of the major concerns was the rise of al-Qaeda. Remember - there was a previous bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993.  In addition, Richard Clarke laid out a broad anti-terrorist plan specifically naming al-Qaeda as a major threat and, as a result, Ms Rice asked him to stay on as head of counterterrorism. She remarked how impressed she was with his expertise on the subject of al-Qaeda and terrorist threats. (this is all documented)

But Clarke said that the Bush team didn't seem to take the threat seriously and had their own interests, commenting that White House officials "were tepid in their response" when he urged them months before Sept. 11 to meet to discuss what he saw as a severe threat from al Qaeda. Even a Republican Senator, Richard Shelby, who was on the Intelligence Committee, said there was advanced warning that attacks were imminent and that the White House should have revealed the warning to the American people earlier.  Yet even after 9/11, Bush continued to look for a link between Iraq and the WTC attacks, despite being told there didn't seem to be one. Please keep in mind that on 9/11 Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were enemies. But somehow Bush & his people were able to convince Americans that these 2 men not only plotted together, but were the same person!  One day I remember asking a friend "since when did Baghdad move to Afghanistan?

Another commission led by former senators Gary Hart and Warren Rudman had issued several reports on national security warning that "mass-casualty terrorism directed against the U.S. homeland was of serious and growing concern'' and to establish a strong Homeland Security Agency and tighten our Borders.

Clinton, Clarke, Berger along with many others warned of these attacks. Could they have been prevented?  I have no idea.  We shouldn't be pointing fingers now at who could have done what then, we need to concentrate our energy on what we can do now

Right on Clairvoyance!!!!! Clinton was offered Bin Landen on a platter.  He didn't have time because he was playing golf. (Fiddling while Rome burnt?) The advisors justxploring refers to were the one's advising Clinton and the things they have alledged against the Bush administration were self serving as they had books coming out.

Tenaj's avatarTenaj

TwitchWow, George W's 25% popularity comprises of this forum. 

truecritic's avatartruecritic

Quote: Originally posted by Tenaj on Sep 8, 2006

TwitchWow, George W's 25% popularity comprises of this forum. 

Strange!

Who would of thunk it?

Thinking of...

Todd's avatarTodd

Quote: Originally posted by Tenaj on Sep 8, 2006

TwitchWow, George W's 25% popularity comprises of this forum. 

Dear Janet,

As with your other rants posts, you're wrong with this one too.

Let me correct your sentence:

Wow, George W's 25% popularity comprises of this forum currently has a 47% Favorable rating on Zogby, which continues to rise as his Unfavorable rating is steadily decreasing.

You seem to have trouble with the facts, so I just thought I'd help you out.

Todd's avatarTodd

Dear Janet,

Your little caricature cartoon belongs in your blog, so I delete it.

whitmansm2's avatarwhitmansm2
Many will  recall that on July 8, 1947, witnesses claim an unidentified
 object with five  aliens aboard crashed on a sheep and cattle ranch just
 outside Roswell, New  Mexico.  This is a well known incident that many
 say has long been covered up by the US Air Force and the federal
 government.
 However,  you may NOT know that in the Month of March 1948, exactly nine
 months after  that historic day, Albert Arnold Gore, Jr.; Hillary Rodham;
 John F. Kerry;  William Jefferson Clinton; Howard Dean; Nancy Pelosi;
 Dianne Feinstein;  Charles E. Schumer; and Barbara Boxer were born.
 That piece of  information has now cleared up a lot of  things.

 

Poke

ok...just trying to lighten the mood here.  I believe for the most part, that history is written by the winners, so it's not always clear what really happened.  (I'm talking about the PAST here)  I also believe that paying your tithes and a church not accepting it, is not only stupid, but that's between them and God.

Good luck everyone tonight!  May we all have an opportunity to get our tithes rejected!  LMAO

 

Todd's avatarTodd

Well, I guess that'll about do it.  Thanks all for the very interesting comments.  Anyone working through this whole thread has a lot to digest.

mr twentyone

TO MR AND MRS DONALD AND DANETTE SIGMON, i say to you ,enjoy your self, live your life to the fullest one day at a time and enjoy your new found luck, it came to you when you really needed it so use it wisely, if you gave to the church and they returned it say thanks and walk away,they always return but with out the crowd , and  those who subb you ,if it was them who had won your town might have been posting a missing persons report as im sure they would have been gone ,and where ? on to a better life. so enjoy your life just dont return to where you were before you got your winnings, and now you know who your real friends are, so dont worry be happy, hey im in the bahamas ,i  have  sun,sand and sea and i still wish i was lucky as you , so be happy,party like its your x-dayBanana

mr twentyone

its a blessing  and you have time to worry about people, listen if you paid  $30 , in tides for ten years do you think god is angry with you ,i dont think so , so now you want to donate some funds to your church and they returned it ,tell them thanks as you accept your returned money and continue to pay your $30  and watch how quick the chatter changes to , is that all they can pay, with all that money they have, hey forget them now you really know who your friends are ,just put some away for when you need to retire ,vacation, medical plans, but above all be happy, dont worry, remember big minds talk about ideas , small minds talk about people, look how important you are ,go on have fun, strut you stuff , its your time so enjoy  ,need a vacation try nassau bahamas at xmas and enjoy our parades at xmas and new years , you have time to worry about  what they think,Party 

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