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Pre-test draw results, Do we Have the right to know what they were?

Topic closed. 20 replies. Last post 6 years ago by bigato1010.

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cleveland
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October 7, 2005
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Posted: September 6, 2008, 7:35 am - IP Logged

   I know  that  Texas  is courteous  enough  to list on their website  the pre-test  results (  the  pre-game  test draws  they run  privately to make sure they are working properly),  but no other  states  do this.   Don't we have  the right  as  players  to know  what  the  pre-game  test results were each day?  I mean  they  give  us  the  past  winning  numbers  but  they  don't  tell us  the  pre-game  off camera  test  results, which are Just as important for us  systems  players  who like to keep track.  If you don't know what the test results  were, then your  tracking history  is  not  accurate.  If I contact  a state lottery  and request  to be  updated  daily  with  the pre-game test results  would they  email them to me or post them on their website  like Texas does?    It really is insulting  to us, the fact that they  give us  the  past  winning numbers  and think we don't need the pre-game test draw results.   

    four4me's avatar - gate1
    MD
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    Posted: September 6, 2008, 11:37 am - IP Logged

    Tracking history is for all intensive purposes is the actual numbers they drew. Not the pre draws.

    If states were to post the pre draws at what time would you like to see the results. If they are doing the pre draws an hour before the drawing and up to the last few minutes be for the drawing how is knowing the results going to help you determine the outcome of a random drawing. In time enough for you to figure out what digits to play.

    They don't use the same balls for every drawing.

    When you play cards and the dealer shuffles the deck do you get to look at the face cards before he deals the hand. 

    Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                   I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
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      NY
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      Posted: September 6, 2008, 12:51 pm - IP Logged

      You have no right at all to know what the test results are. If they offer to sell you a ticket you have the right to know the rules and the official result.

        Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
        Chief Bottle Washer
        New Jersey
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        Posted: September 6, 2008, 1:46 pm - IP Logged

        Some people may disagree, but I think all lotteries should publish their predraw data, even if it is published after the official drawing.

        The reason is that predraws are conducted in order to determine that the machines are properly drawing random numbered balls from the machine, or in the case of a computerized drawing, that the random number generator's patterns are not too predictable.  (That last part was a little tongue-in-cheek, although technically it is accurate for many state RNGs.)

        If the lottery is using those draws to be sure the machines are working properly, then I think that data should be available to anyone who wants to be sure its truly random.

        After all, it is the players who discovered most drawing errors, bugs, and glitches that have occured through the years.  So who better than the players to review the predraw data?

        Publishing the predraw data, along with which specific machine(s) and ball set(s) are used is the ultimate in transparency, and I believe all lotteries should do it.

         

        Check the State Lottery Report Card
        What grade did your lottery earn?

         

        Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
        Help eliminate computerized drawings!

          MADDOG10's avatar - smoke
          North Jersey
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          Posted: September 6, 2008, 1:51 pm - IP Logged

          You have no right at all to know what the test results are. If they offer to sell you a ticket you have the right to know the rules and the official result.

          Wrong, wrong, wrong......

          Every state  has their own set of rules and regs, and everyone does have the right to know what test results are>!  If you ask for the results from your state and they don't respond pursue it diplomatically with your state represenative. The law that pertains to this is called "The Sunshine Law", which in perspective is the right to know publically . The state lotteries are not above the laws. Period...!

          So mr. kyfloyd, or lottery guru of anyalisis, you need to take the "cork" out of your butt because its effecting your brainwaves as you speak...

           

           

                                                                                                                                                Tongue Out 



                                                                    Your Best Teacher, is Your First Mistake.

            bobby623's avatar - abstract
            San Angelo, Texas
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            Posted: September 6, 2008, 4:19 pm - IP Logged

            I can't give you the links, but I've read numerous posts regarding pretests.

            It seems states will provide the pretest information when someone asks for it. The important thing is for the requestor to be specific. General requests don't provide any satisfaction. The lottery doesn't get involved in guesswork. If a requestor can't specify want he wants, then the lottery probably won't take the time to do the research.

            Years ago, Texas published the pretests for all games. I was on the mailing lists and the data came regularly. I think they decided to post the information online to reduce costs.


            It were me, I would draft a letter where I would give the the game name, from and to dates, day and/or night drawings, main pretest numbers and the alternates. Go to the Texas lottery website and review the data posted.

            Every lottery is required by their laws to test the equipment and to record the information. They probably don't publicize it due to costs.


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              Posted: September 6, 2008, 9:59 pm - IP Logged

              I think KYfloyd is a pre programmed robot or something. Atleast he writes as if he is...lol

              They'll never reveal the pretests because they know the flow of the game will be more noticable. Oh well. It's not like they're making enough money already. I feel so bad for them, they need to make more money.

              God forbid they give the people a fighting chance to keep statistics.

              N.Y. used to publish the pretests, the new positions of the tubes, and the rotation of the sets of tubes, but stopped. I wonder why..... 

              Excuse me while I throw up.....Puke


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                Posted: September 6, 2008, 10:44 pm - IP Logged

                Tracking history is for all intensive purposes is the actual numbers they drew. Not the pre draws.

                If states were to post the pre draws at what time would you like to see the results. If they are doing the pre draws an hour before the drawing and up to the last few minutes be for the drawing how is knowing the results going to help you determine the outcome of a random drawing. In time enough for you to figure out what digits to play.

                They don't use the same balls for every drawing.

                When you play cards and the dealer shuffles the deck do you get to look at the face cards before he deals the hand. 

                Tracking history definitions is debatable. That's your take on what the ideal tracking info may be. Mine includes the "In betweens".

                As far as when I got the pretests, well, I don't care, as long as I have them after the drawing and prepare my findings for the next draw. 

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                  Posted: September 7, 2008, 12:04 am - IP Logged

                  Thang I like about ponies, NASCAR, and scooter flat-trackin’ is the time trials and qualifier runs - everyone gets a fair and open look at wheels and hooves on the track. The information may or may not help betting action on the current race, but sure gives the serious player a view over time— which may influence the way bets go down on the next race or two. How would it be if the gods decided to keep the public away from workouts, pits, and trials

                  It’s about rhythm and tone. Machine dysfunctions or not, knowing pretest results provides additional data that can be analyzed along with actual winning numbers so systems players may better psych the ebb and flow over a range of numbers and/or draws. Ask anyone who has worked a production line: machines take-on a life of their own, sometimes predictably.   

                  The arguments go both ways, that tracking WHNs and any other applicable info/data give an edge on predicting probability; some say it’s a lot of work for nothing; others say the effort pays off. Although I don’t begrudge QP or frivolous cherry-picker winners, I know this much: I celebrate system player/winners above all because I know how much work they put into it.

                  The question is, why not? No skin off official noses — to provide pre-test info — unless they have something to hide.

                  The other question is: Do LotComz hold any bias against system player pencil necks… as if SP/PHs with their software, magic, and hours into crunching numbers pose an unfair advantage — that system players don’t deserve the additional info… as if they (LotComz) prefer dumbed-down customers who rely on QPs and less logical/rational number-pick methods and means?

                  So, why not?

                  Simply publish all information available. The info/data/results are then accessible to public at large; from there, it’s a personal choice on whether you do something with it, or not.   

                    four4me's avatar - gate1
                    MD
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                    Posted: September 7, 2008, 12:08 am - IP Logged

                    Tracking history definitions is debatable. That's your take on what the ideal tracking info may be. Mine includes the "In betweens".

                    As far as when I got the pretests, well, I don't care, as long as I have them after the drawing and prepare my findings for the next draw. 

                    Pac you've made it perfectly clear what you think you need for tracking purposed then i suggest you contact the lottery and ask for that information to be forwarded to you. You might also ask if they would place that info. on their web site for all to view.

                     Click this link and on the front page about halfway down click on the television and they have a Lil video about what goes on before a drawing takes place.

                    http://www.msla.state.md.us/

                     

                    I have Md lotto's complete numbers file about 11,013 evening pick 3 drawings have taken place not including middays or pick 4 drawings, adding pre draws to the file would make it rather difficult to navigate. I suppose for ha ha's i wouldn't mind knowing what the pre draws were just to see if in fact they have an effect on the actual drawing results.

                    I have conducted a test of sorts using bottle caps with magic marker numbers printed on them placed in a bag shook up and drew the numbers many times held an official drawing for the record and then did after draw test. Nothing remotely changed the fact that all the drawings were random. It probably would have been cool if i had the actual machines they use but hey guess what that ain't happening.

                     However to me the actual results are the numbers that count since their the numbers they pay on.

                    My guess is if they showed or recorded the pre draws on lottery websites. Peoples numbers that were actually played bought and paid for would complain that they should have won but if only for the fact they hadn't did the first, second, third pre draw etc.   

                    Big John says. You don't hit the number. The number hits you!!!!

                                   I'm not Big John, I'm Four4me, Big John's a friend.
                      guesser's avatar - Lottery-017.jpg

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                      Posted: September 7, 2008, 2:26 am - IP Logged

                      I think KYfloyd is a pre programmed robot or something. Atleast he writes as if he is...lol

                      They'll never reveal the pretests because they know the flow of the game will be more noticable. Oh well. It's not like they're making enough money already. I feel so bad for them, they need to make more money.

                      God forbid they give the people a fighting chance to keep statistics.

                      N.Y. used to publish the pretests, the new positions of the tubes, and the rotation of the sets of tubes, but stopped. I wonder why..... 

                      Excuse me while I throw up.....Puke

                      Some lotteries publish theirs, and it is useful information, but NOT in terms of actual 'number selection'.

                      So far, I don't think this info has helped anyone WIN the jackpot.

                      As far as 'feeling bad for them', or helping them 'make more money': the option is there for you NOT to play, it's your choice if you choose to donate to the pot or not.

                        MysteryMan424's avatar - batman22
                        Pelham NY
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                        Posted: September 7, 2008, 11:48 am - IP Logged

                        As far as New York is concerned, I think publicizing the pre test data would be a bad idea, because it would add more "smart" money into the pool. As it is now They overbet triples on a daily basis selling them out,and access to pre test data would probably enable them to play heavily on likely six way or double combos, which would mean the 125 , 249, 257, 006, 115, 424, would be selling out on a regular basis, and hampering my ability to cash.

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                          Kentucky
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                          Posted: September 7, 2008, 7:40 pm - IP Logged

                             I know  that  Texas  is courteous  enough  to list on their website  the pre-test  results (  the  pre-game  test draws  they run  privately to make sure they are working properly),  but no other  states  do this.   Don't we have  the right  as  players  to know  what  the  pre-game  test results were each day?  I mean  they  give  us  the  past  winning  numbers  but  they  don't  tell us  the  pre-game  off camera  test  results, which are Just as important for us  systems  players  who like to keep track.  If you don't know what the test results  were, then your  tracking history  is  not  accurate.  If I contact  a state lottery  and request  to be  updated  daily  with  the pre-game test results  would they  email them to me or post them on their website  like Texas does?    It really is insulting  to us, the fact that they  give us  the  past  winning numbers  and think we don't need the pre-game test draw results.   

                          All live ball drawing lotteries probably test the machine mechanics to make sure the balls are being mixed, there is no blockage in the tube, and the valves are working properly.  Ohio's live drawing begins showing three sets of 10 numbered balls in three different containers for Pick-3 and four sets balls for the Pick-4 being mixed. The host will say hello, announces the Pick-3 drawing, all three values are opened at the same time, the camera pans in on the balls, and the host announces the drawn digits in order. They announce the Pick-4, the same process is repeated, do it again for Rolling Cash 5, and Classic Lotto on the nights it's drawn.

                          From my point of view the balls are mixing so fast I can't see the numbers and never see just one ball floating under the tube. You can hear it's a noisy process and the hosts have to speak louder to be heard over the sound of the balls banging against the top, bottom and sides of the containers. Basically the balls that happens to be in the right place when the valves are opened are the drawn numbers. It sure looks like a random drawing to me.

                          "It really is insulting  to us, the fact that they  give us  the  past  winning numbers  and think we don't need the pre-game test draw results."

                          It depends if you believe the drawing process makes a random drawing. The test drawings probably have different timing than the actual drawings but the results are just as random. The only affect previous drawings could have on future drawings is the wear and tear on the balls. If you don't think the drawings are random, I suggest you show your proof to the state lottery director. Better yet, if you believe the drawings are predictable, use that knowledge to win lots of money.

                          I would be less likely to play a straight combination that was drawn in a test draw before the actual drawing because of the percentages. However even the Texas Lottery doesn't publish the test results before the next drawing so that information is useless to me.

                          If the state lottery does record the ball numbered results of the test drawings, that information should be made available to any or all players upon request. If there are many requests, the lottery might start publishing the results monthly, weekly, or even daily.

                          I'm assuming Texas does it because of the statistics professor at San Antonio College.

                          http://www.lotterypost.com/thread.aspx?tp=167779&q=Texas+students&rp=search&get=949724

                          http://sacstat.org/

                            time*treat's avatar - radar

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                            Posted: September 7, 2008, 7:58 pm - IP Logged

                            For the purposes of transparency, I'd say yes.

                            Whether or not it makes a difference in the actual official draw, I think is like the creation vs evolution argument. Most people don't really care, and those few who do have already made up their minds.

                            Anyone refusing to play until the pre-test info is made public?

                            In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
                            Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.

                              Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
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                              Posted: September 7, 2008, 10:42 pm - IP Logged

                              I think pretest results should be public.

                              Gonna win.Big Smile