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Information Theory and Lotto

Topic closed. 61 replies. Last post 4 years ago by GASMETERGUY.

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NASHVILLE, TENN
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February 20, 2006
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Posted: December 31, 2009, 12:55 pm - IP Logged

            Recently I read about a mathematician who wondered if one could determine the shape of a drum by listening only to the sound the drum made when struck. As it turned out, he could. And he did. Not only did he determine the shape of the drum but the volume as well. That was a striking bit of work. This accomplishment was based on Information Theory. There was information buried within the sound of the drum that allowed him to determine the shape and volume of the drum.

 

Is there information buried within five numbers drawn from a pool of 39? Let’s find out.

 

Here are five numbers taken from the Georgia Pick 5 game for December 30,2009

 

                                                 6-8-9-20-27

 

What possible information can we extract from them?

 

1)                  These five numbers will add to a sum. In this instance the sum is 70

2)                  The sum will be either odd or even

3)                  The lowest number happens to be an even number

4)                  The highest number happens to be an odd number

5)                  The difference between the lowest and highest number is 21

6)                  The “difference number” will be either odd or even

7)                  The gaps between the numbers is 2,1,11,and 7

8)                  The gaps sum to 21

9)                  The “gaps sum” will be either odd or even

 


Anyone care to add to this list?

    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
    Chief Bottle Washer
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    Posted: December 31, 2009, 4:09 pm - IP Logged

    <Moved to Mathematics forum>

    Please post in the appropriate forum ... thank you.

      Coin Toss's avatar - shape barbed.jpg
      Zeta Reticuli Star System
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      Posted: December 31, 2009, 6:59 pm - IP Logged

      gasmeterguy,

      You're looking for consistency in something that is designed not to be consistent.

      We can take that drawing,  6-8-9-20-27, and do this

      Calls 6 X

      X + 2 +1 +11 + 7.

      You might see that pattern again the next day or you might not see it for a very long time.

      The thing is, even if you did see it, you'd have to have the right number for the first number or the pattern would be worthless to you.

      If a lottery game  was too show consistency, it would become unavailable.

      Those who run the lotteries love it when players look for consistency in something that's designed not to have any.

      Lep

      There is one and only one 'proven' system, and that is to book the action. No matter the game, let the players pick their own losers.

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        CA
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        Posted: December 31, 2009, 7:51 pm - IP Logged

        Anyone else watch the show Numb3rs? This thread reminds me of the show. Lol.

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          Posted: December 31, 2009, 10:12 pm - IP Logged

                      Recently I read about a mathematician who wondered if one could determine the shape of a drum by listening only to the sound the drum made when struck. As it turned out, he could. And he did. Not only did he determine the shape of the drum but the volume as well. That was a striking bit of work. This accomplishment was based on Information Theory. There was information buried within the sound of the drum that allowed him to determine the shape and volume of the drum.

           

          Is there information buried within five numbers drawn from a pool of 39? Let’s find out.

           

          Here are five numbers taken from the Georgia Pick 5 game for December 30,2009

           

                                                           6-8-9-20-27

           

          What possible information can we extract from them?

           

          1)                  These five numbers will add to a sum. In this instance the sum is 70

          2)                  The sum will be either odd or even

          3)                  The lowest number happens to be an even number

          4)                  The highest number happens to be an odd number

          5)                  The difference between the lowest and highest number is 21

          6)                  The “difference number” will be either odd or even

          7)                  The gaps between the numbers is 2,1,11,and 7

          8)                  The gaps sum to 21

          9)                  The “gaps sum” will be either odd or even

           


          Anyone care to add to this list?

          Hi,

            You could also say what ranges the numbers fall in (ie. 1-10, 11-20...etc)

            You could also say how many number were divisable by 2,3,4,5...etc.

            The problem lies in projecting with a sample of only one pick.

            A comparison of elements is required to determine trends, individual number attributes, and draw conclusions.

            If your looking to solve the puzzle, I suggest for the missing pieces. *S

          You are a slave to the choices you have made.  jk

          Even a blind squirrel will occasioanlly find an acorn.

            RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
            mid-Ohio
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            Posted: December 31, 2009, 11:14 pm - IP Logged

                        Recently I read about a mathematician who wondered if one could determine the shape of a drum by listening only to the sound the drum made when struck. As it turned out, he could. And he did. Not only did he determine the shape of the drum but the volume as well. That was a striking bit of work. This accomplishment was based on Information Theory. There was information buried within the sound of the drum that allowed him to determine the shape and volume of the drum.

             

            Is there information buried within five numbers drawn from a pool of 39? Let’s find out.

             

            Here are five numbers taken from the Georgia Pick 5 game for December 30,2009

             

                                                             6-8-9-20-27

             

            What possible information can we extract from them?

             

            1)                  These five numbers will add to a sum. In this instance the sum is 70

            2)                  The sum will be either odd or even

            3)                  The lowest number happens to be an even number

            4)                  The highest number happens to be an odd number

            5)                  The difference between the lowest and highest number is 21

            6)                  The “difference number” will be either odd or even

            7)                  The gaps between the numbers is 2,1,11,and 7

            8)                  The gaps sum to 21

            9)                  The “gaps sum” will be either odd or even

             


            Anyone care to add to this list?

            What you have described could also be done by a member of a band or orchestra after listening to its performance.  They could tell you if the sounds were made by the wind, brass, drum or string sections and the instruments used to make them.  If they were from the wind section they could tell you if it was a piccolo, a flute, a clarinet or a saxophone.  If it was a saxophone, they probably could tell you if it was a small soprano sax, a mid-size alto sax or a bigger baritone sax.  They could tell you this because after playing and listening to the many instruments over time they would associate types of sound and their ranges to a particular instrument and its size but I doubt if they could do that if they had never heard those instruments.

            Same way with lottery numbers, I doubt if an significants could be given to any number in a groups unless one had watched them over time and recorded certain events happening when ever certain numbers were drawn.  You just can't arbitrarily assign a particular significant to numbers, lots of groups of five numbers  add up to 70, have both odd or even numbers and have a range of 21.

            I've look at the last 472 MegaMillions drawings and when I compare each group of 5 numbers to the other 471 groups, I find that 80% of them have never matched four but have matched three 0-3 times, matched two 20-32 times, been drawn a total 195-229 times, had sums of 95-190 and a range of 27-53.  Does any of this information have any significants?  I don't know, but the 10 lines I plan to play for the New Year drawings will be within those parameters.

            Good luck if you play.

            * you don't need more tickets, just the right ticket * 
            * your best chance at winning a lottery jackpot is to buy a ticket * 
                 Wink 

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              NY
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              Posted: December 31, 2009, 11:25 pm - IP Logged

              "Recently I read about a mathematician who wondered if one coulddetermine the shape of a drum by listening only to the sound the drummade when struck. As it turned out, he could."

              After listening to somebody play a drum for a minute or an hour, can he tell us which of the other 175 million drums will be played next?

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                Posted: January 1, 2010, 10:14 am - IP Logged

                            Recently I read about a mathematician who wondered if one could determine the shape of a drum by listening only to the sound the drum made when struck. As it turned out, he could. And he did. Not only did he determine the shape of the drum but the volume as well. That was a striking bit of work. This accomplishment was based on Information Theory. There was information buried within the sound of the drum that allowed him to determine the shape and volume of the drum.

                 

                Is there information buried within five numbers drawn from a pool of 39? Let’s find out.

                 

                Here are five numbers taken from the Georgia Pick 5 game for December 30,2009

                 

                                                                 6-8-9-20-27

                 

                What possible information can we extract from them?

                 

                1)                  These five numbers will add to a sum. In this instance the sum is 70

                2)                  The sum will be either odd or even

                3)                  The lowest number happens to be an even number

                4)                  The highest number happens to be an odd number

                5)                  The difference between the lowest and highest number is 21

                6)                  The “difference number” will be either odd or even

                7)                  The gaps between the numbers is 2,1,11,and 7

                8)                  The gaps sum to 21

                9)                  The “gaps sum” will be either odd or even

                 


                Anyone care to add to this list?

                There's a distinct difference between the sound of a drum and lottery numbers.   There's a direct causality between the shape of the drums and the sounds that they would produce hence the information in the sound of the drum is relevant however with the lottery numbers, the draw is by definition random with the only relevant information being that there are five numbers drawn.    There is also the constraints that the second number drawn is exclusive of the first, the third number drawn is exclusive of the first two etc. but the numbers are sorted before being presented and recorded so the order of the draw has been obscured.   Even with computerized draws, where the numbers are related by a pseudo-random number generator, the causal relationship between the RNG and the numbers has been lost due to the sorting plus it's likely that instead of constraining each subsequent draw, they may have simply filtered each draw with the constraints such that should a number drawn match a previous number in the same draw then it's just redrawn but the fact that it was redrawn isn't recorded.   As to information that might be useful:

                There are five numbers

                There are five four number combinations in the set of five drawn

                There are ten three number combinations in the set of five drawn

                There are ten two number combinations in the set of five drawn

                There are five one number combinations in the set of five drawn

                 

                The information that you've postulated such as the sums only indicate the number of separate numbers drawn as that affects the probability distribution of the sum i.e.: the sum of two numbers drawn results in a probability distribution shaped like a triangle, of three numbers the distribution looks like a bell curve, as there are more numbers, the curve gets tighter hence less standard deviation in the sum.   The gaps are pretty meaningless as again the numbers were sorted

                Not all information is relevant and looking for patterns in information that you know is irrelevant is a fools errand, try to theorize causality before including information in whatever "system" you are working on, otherwise you're just looking at the pretty static.   You may not be able to identify all the information that is relevant but you should be able to exclude much that isn't.

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                  Posted: January 1, 2010, 10:29 am - IP Logged

                  Hi,

                    You could also say what ranges the numbers fall in (ie. 1-10, 11-20...etc)

                    You could also say how many number were divisable by 2,3,4,5...etc.

                    The problem lies in projecting with a sample of only one pick.

                    A comparison of elements is required to determine trends, individual number attributes, and draw conclusions.

                    If your looking to solve the puzzle, I suggest for the missing pieces. *S

                  The constraints on the number ranges are obfuscated by the fact that the numbers are not in draw order but sorted.   In draw order, the possible values for each number is simply exclusive of the others.    Once sorted, the ranges are actually a probability distribution where the first number presented can range from 1 to 35 and the shape of that distribution will be skewed left.    The second number presented will be a distribution over the range 2 to 36, where the distribution is not as skewed left as the first number presented.   The third number presented will be a distribution over the range 3 to 37 and be symmetrical.   The fourth number will be a distribution over the range 4 to 38 with a distribution skewed somewhat to the right, the fifth number will be a distribution over the range 5 to 39 with a heavy skew right just as the first number presented was skewed heavily to the left.   You could take the mean and standard deviations of these numbers to set expected ranges for them but all that tells you is that the numbers were sorted.    Hence although looking at the presented numbers in ranges may lead you to believe that you are onto something systematic, it isn't, you're just relating a pattern to the fact that it's been sorted.

                  There's information and then there's interpretation of that information, with something like lottery numbers, it's all too easy to be interpreting patterns that are actually not related to any causal factors at all.

                    RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                    mid-Ohio
                    United States
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                    Posted: January 2, 2010, 11:10 am - IP Logged

                    What you have described could also be done by a member of a band or orchestra after listening to its performance.  They could tell you if the sounds were made by the wind, brass, drum or string sections and the instruments used to make them.  If they were from the wind section they could tell you if it was a piccolo, a flute, a clarinet or a saxophone.  If it was a saxophone, they probably could tell you if it was a small soprano sax, a mid-size alto sax or a bigger baritone sax.  They could tell you this because after playing and listening to the many instruments over time they would associate types of sound and their ranges to a particular instrument and its size but I doubt if they could do that if they had never heard those instruments.

                    Same way with lottery numbers, I doubt if an significants could be given to any number in a groups unless one had watched them over time and recorded certain events happening when ever certain numbers were drawn.  You just can't arbitrarily assign a particular significant to numbers, lots of groups of five numbers  add up to 70, have both odd or even numbers and have a range of 21.

                    I've look at the last 472 MegaMillions drawings and when I compare each group of 5 numbers to the other 471 groups, I find that 80% of them have never matched four but have matched three 0-3 times, matched two 20-32 times, been drawn a total 195-229 times, had sums of 95-190 and a range of 27-53.  Does any of this information have any significants?  I don't know, but the 10 lines I plan to play for the New Year drawings will be within those parameters.

                    Good luck if you play.

                     06 08 27 40 41    21  SUM=122 RANGE=36  NUMBER DRAWN 194 TIMES IN PAST 472 DRAWINGS
                    ----------------------
                     10 24 28 33 40    05
                     02 08 30 41 52    01
                     17 32 39 43 55    25
                     12 20 21 38 46    12
                     11 16 34 44 53    08
                     13 29 31 35 56    28
                     04 22 37 48 49    39
                     03 07 23 26 50    42
                     14 18 36 45 47    38
                     18 21 33 39 49    22

                               MATCHES

                          MATCH  0 = 301   
                           MATCH  1 = 150   
                           MATCH  2 = 19     
                           MATCH  3 = 2     
                           MATCH  4 = 0     
                           MATCH  5 = 0     

                         472 DRAWS CHECKED

                    All that information didn't help much.

                    * you don't need more tickets, just the right ticket * 
                    * your best chance at winning a lottery jackpot is to buy a ticket * 
                         Wink 

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                      Posted: January 2, 2010, 11:25 am - IP Logged

                      Wish I would've gotten on this site earlier...Mega # were 6-8-27-40-41/<Mega#21  Could've use the monies.  Keep your strategies coming Please.

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                        Posted: January 2, 2010, 3:25 pm - IP Logged

                        The best way to win lottery is to be found when you understand what is random and how to balance numbers in perfect order.

                        Any attempt for 6 winning numbers in smaller pools wouldnt help much.

                        Go to wiki and search...possibility,randomness,matrix.Then try to understand the perfect design of the wheels,their weakness and advahtages.

                        Pick up one good wheel and study it.Predict and test for the future drawings,keep perfecting your strategies,and in the end you may find somethig interesting.Its the great combnation of the wisedom and sensiveness.Its like you are falling in love with numbers than hating them.

                        Hans

                        Welcome to Cannes!

                        The most precious thing is Free.

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                          Posted: January 6, 2010, 11:56 am - IP Logged

                          I agree that: The best way to win the lottery is to be found when you understand what is random and how to balance numbers in perfect order.

                          HAWK

                          *We may see something that isn’t there because of what we expect to see

                          Or conversely, we may not see something because we don’t expect to see it.*

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                            NASHVILLE, TENN
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                            Posted: January 6, 2010, 4:38 pm - IP Logged

                            gasmeterguy,

                            You're looking for consistency in something that is designed not to be consistent.

                            We can take that drawing,  6-8-9-20-27, and do this

                            Calls 6 X

                            X + 2 +1 +11 + 7.

                            You might see that pattern again the next day or you might not see it for a very long time.

                            The thing is, even if you did see it, you'd have to have the right number for the first number or the pattern would be worthless to you.

                            If a lottery game  was too show consistency, it would become unavailable.

                            You are absolutely right.  We might never see that pattern again in our lifetime yet we might see it again the next draw.

                            So what does that tell us?  Answer: we need more information but don't discard this bit of information./\

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                              Honduras
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                              Posted: January 6, 2010, 11:33 pm - IP Logged

                              Anyone else watch the show Numb3rs? This thread reminds me of the show. Lol.

                              i do watch the show numbe3rs but it comes out on different times on my tv that i dont know when is going on and since i am so involved on the lotto sometimes forget when they show it...It would had been nice had they shown that show everyday at a particular time...

                              is very interesting....

                              The Forex trades: 1.6 Trillion dollars EVERY day, that´s more than the GDP of the Carribbean Central America, COMBINED. Enough to feed every crook out there for centuries...To all Geniuses & Powers Countries of the World the Planet needs breakthroughs in all Medicine, Veterinary, Biology related fields, Psychology, Population Psychology/Sociology..They need to genetically ingeneer new plants species/types to give more variety of plants and thus have more resources for combating diseases¨