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NYS lotto scratch off dirtly little secrets that they do not want you to know about. READ THIS

Topic closed. 13 replies. Last post 4 years ago by sully16.

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ozone park
United States
Member #57042
December 15, 2007
51 Posts
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Posted: October 24, 2010, 1:32 am - IP Logged
If you play NYS lotto scratch off's, than you need to read this information. If you play other states instant scratch off games you may want to question that states policy, as I have done with NYS lotto.
 
First off, it took me a very long time to get this answer. I had sent numerous letters from my friend and I under the freedom of information act to get my questions answered. I had to finally go on a major letter writing campaign and literally write to every single NYS Assemblyman and Senator to finally have my questions answered. NYS lotto responded by sending a letter to every single Assemblyman and Senator pretty much calling me a pain in the ass but was forced to answer my questions. Here goes:
 
NYS lotto distributes books of scratch off's to any retailer that gets a NYS lotto Lic. to sell Lotto products. Some retailers that have very large volume may get a larger quantity of books and have them displayed. I started to see a lot of retailers closing or selling their business in the last few years. More than usual I have to admit and I wanted to know what happens to the opened books of scratch off's. When I first asked this question to Lotto they answered it by using examples of unopened books of scratch off's. This was not my question but they thought I would go away if they just answered in riddles rather than give me a straight answer.
 
So when I went on my writing campaign I again asked what happens to all the OPENED books of scratch off's that are not sold after the store goes out of business or sells their business, (when a business sells they have to give up their lotto lic and the new owners have to reapply and all these books are destroyed) I was finally told the truth. The unopened books go back to NYS lotto and redistributed to the retailers, at least that is what they told me. But what really concerned me was what happens to the opened books of scratch off's. IF a retailer is very big and for example they have 10 opened books of "Set for Life" in their bins opened and selling they ALL get destroyed.
 
Now this may not be a big issue for some people but here in NY, when retailers open and close or sell every day it starts to add up. Thousands of scratch off tickets are getting destroyed and if they have winning tickets we will never know nor will anyone ever win that prize. If a scratch off has 3 top prizes and the retailer that went out of business or sells, had that ticket in their stock now that winning ticket gets destroyed and there are only 2 top prizes available and if those 2 tops prizes get claimed that game will continue to sell because they are waiting for the final remaining top prize to get claimed but it can't get claimed because it got destroyed and so NYS Lotto gets to sell that game to the public with the idea that there is still 1 more top prize left but that particular top prize was destroyed when the retailer went out of business or sold so it can never be claimed, This is really unfair when you start to think about it.
 
Technically Lotto has to stop selling a game when all top prizes are claimed. But if retailers that go out of business or sell have their opened books destroyed, we the public will keep buying that particular game thinking there is still another prize left, but in reality it was destroyed and we are really buying on false hopes.
 
I asked lotto why this policy is in place. They would not answer my question. I asked why opened books cannot be put back into another retailer or even better why lotto themselves do not sell the opened books of scratch off's that otherwise would not be sold, or put them into their machines, so that we have a fair chance of buying these books, they told me it was too much work. I really believe that this is how NYS makes more money and deceives the public legally and they can keep selling these games until whenever they want to whether there is a top prize available or not, unless all the top prizes are truly claimed. This is really unfair. Especially when someone like me played regularly and loved to play, until I found out recently about this little dirty secret.  
 
In NY, where real estate is climbing to record heights in rents, stores cannot stay in business anymore. So Lotto is making a fortune by being able to destroy thousands of scratch off's a month and they deceive us into thinking there is still a winner left, when in fact, it was destroyed because of this stupid policy.
 
I think that people need to question this policy and ask for changes in the law so that we have a fair advantage in winning. If more people start asking questions they will be forced to admit that this gives an unfair disadvantage to the public and they get to destroy tickets. (For example, there is a store on Liberty Ave in Richmond Hill, that has 10 books opened for the top 5 selling games and than has 3 books opened for the rest of all the scratch off games. That starts to calculate into thousands of books in that one store when he either goes out of business or sells his business.
 
I want to know what other lotto players think about this law and I want to know if there is enough people that do not like this policy for me to go further with this dirty secret. I would like to know if you find this a major hindrance into your buying these scratch off's now that you know this secret. Some games have been going on for very long times with the same amount of top prizes left and I wonder of they got destroyed and just keep selling the game until they sell out all the tickets that were printed. This really does leave a lot of room for corruption not in stealing but in selling a game with the idea that the top prize is out there when in reality it probably got destroyed when a business went out or sold its business.
 
Do you think this is a problem in the system and should it be changed? I want to know what people think. Thank you for your time and I am sorry I went on too long but I wanted to make sure that you understood the problem in the best way I could explain it so that there was no confusion in this whole concept.
 
 
Sam-Ozone Park Queens
    Harve$t Moon's avatar - 5str

    United States
    Member #76986
    July 10, 2009
    6178 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: October 28, 2010, 1:28 am - IP Logged
    If you play NYS lotto scratch off's, than you need to read this information. If you play other states instant scratch off games you may want to question that states policy, as I have done with NYS lotto.
     
    First off, it took me a very long time to get this answer. I had sent numerous letters from my friend and I under the freedom of information act to get my questions answered. I had to finally go on a major letter writing campaign and literally write to every single NYS Assemblyman and Senator to finally have my questions answered. NYS lotto responded by sending a letter to every single Assemblyman and Senator pretty much calling me a pain in the ass but was forced to answer my questions. Here goes:
     
    NYS lotto distributes books of scratch off's to any retailer that gets a NYS lotto Lic. to sell Lotto products. Some retailers that have very large volume may get a larger quantity of books and have them displayed. I started to see a lot of retailers closing or selling their business in the last few years. More than usual I have to admit and I wanted to know what happens to the opened books of scratch off's. When I first asked this question to Lotto they answered it by using examples of unopened books of scratch off's. This was not my question but they thought I would go away if they just answered in riddles rather than give me a straight answer.
     
    So when I went on my writing campaign I again asked what happens to all the OPENED books of scratch off's that are not sold after the store goes out of business or sells their business, (when a business sells they have to give up their lotto lic and the new owners have to reapply and all these books are destroyed) I was finally told the truth. The unopened books go back to NYS lotto and redistributed to the retailers, at least that is what they told me. But what really concerned me was what happens to the opened books of scratch off's. IF a retailer is very big and for example they have 10 opened books of "Set for Life" in their bins opened and selling they ALL get destroyed.
     
    Now this may not be a big issue for some people but here in NY, when retailers open and close or sell every day it starts to add up. Thousands of scratch off tickets are getting destroyed and if they have winning tickets we will never know nor will anyone ever win that prize. If a scratch off has 3 top prizes and the retailer that went out of business or sells, had that ticket in their stock now that winning ticket gets destroyed and there are only 2 top prizes available and if those 2 tops prizes get claimed that game will continue to sell because they are waiting for the final remaining top prize to get claimed but it can't get claimed because it got destroyed and so NYS Lotto gets to sell that game to the public with the idea that there is still 1 more top prize left but that particular top prize was destroyed when the retailer went out of business or sold so it can never be claimed, This is really unfair when you start to think about it.
     
    Technically Lotto has to stop selling a game when all top prizes are claimed. But if retailers that go out of business or sell have their opened books destroyed, we the public will keep buying that particular game thinking there is still another prize left, but in reality it was destroyed and we are really buying on false hopes.
     
    I asked lotto why this policy is in place. They would not answer my question. I asked why opened books cannot be put back into another retailer or even better why lotto themselves do not sell the opened books of scratch off's that otherwise would not be sold, or put them into their machines, so that we have a fair chance of buying these books, they told me it was too much work. I really believe that this is how NYS makes more money and deceives the public legally and they can keep selling these games until whenever they want to whether there is a top prize available or not, unless all the top prizes are truly claimed. This is really unfair. Especially when someone like me played regularly and loved to play, until I found out recently about this little dirty secret.  
     
    In NY, where real estate is climbing to record heights in rents, stores cannot stay in business anymore. So Lotto is making a fortune by being able to destroy thousands of scratch off's a month and they deceive us into thinking there is still a winner left, when in fact, it was destroyed because of this stupid policy.
     
    I think that people need to question this policy and ask for changes in the law so that we have a fair advantage in winning. If more people start asking questions they will be forced to admit that this gives an unfair disadvantage to the public and they get to destroy tickets. (For example, there is a store on Liberty Ave in Richmond Hill, that has 10 books opened for the top 5 selling games and than has 3 books opened for the rest of all the scratch off games. That starts to calculate into thousands of books in that one store when he either goes out of business or sells his business.
     
    I want to know what other lotto players think about this law and I want to know if there is enough people that do not like this policy for me to go further with this dirty secret. I would like to know if you find this a major hindrance into your buying these scratch off's now that you know this secret. Some games have been going on for very long times with the same amount of top prizes left and I wonder of they got destroyed and just keep selling the game until they sell out all the tickets that were printed. This really does leave a lot of room for corruption not in stealing but in selling a game with the idea that the top prize is out there when in reality it probably got destroyed when a business went out or sold its business.
     
    Do you think this is a problem in the system and should it be changed? I want to know what people think. Thank you for your time and I am sorry I went on too long but I wanted to make sure that you understood the problem in the best way I could explain it so that there was no confusion in this whole concept.
     
     
    Sam-Ozone Park Queens

    Thanks for bringing this investigative information out into the light, rgse90

    Your information will have a bearing on how I will buy future instant games!

    Perhaps all instant games could have expirations dates printed on them

    using guidelines for consumer use and protection.  The holiday and special

    events  instant games could have even shorter life consumer use expiration dates.

    This will not eliminate the problems of destroyed top tier prizes, but it may

    put a cap on all states lottery commissions' ability to tap a money well that has no

    bottom.  It is interesting that this money well is tapped in the dark without

    the buyers' awareness.  Cool Cool No No 

      rdgrnr's avatar - walt
      -Ridge Runner- Oracle of the Appalachians
      Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
      United States
      Member #73904
      April 28, 2009
      14903 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: October 28, 2010, 2:00 am - IP Logged

      What a bunch of crooks.

      I'll bet they all do it, especially Tennessee.

      Shows what a waste of time it is to look up how many big winners are left.

      I rarely bought them but now I won't be buying any at all.


                                                   
                           
                                               

       

       

       

       

                                                                                                         

      "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                  --Edmund Burke

       

       

        Nino224's avatar - Lottery-013.jpg
        Miami
        United States
        Member #62793
        July 9, 2008
        669 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: October 28, 2010, 3:04 am - IP Logged
        If you play NYS lotto scratch off's, than you need to read this information. If you play other states instant scratch off games you may want to question that states policy, as I have done with NYS lotto.
         
        First off, it took me a very long time to get this answer. I had sent numerous letters from my friend and I under the freedom of information act to get my questions answered. I had to finally go on a major letter writing campaign and literally write to every single NYS Assemblyman and Senator to finally have my questions answered. NYS lotto responded by sending a letter to every single Assemblyman and Senator pretty much calling me a pain in the ass but was forced to answer my questions. Here goes:
         
        NYS lotto distributes books of scratch off's to any retailer that gets a NYS lotto Lic. to sell Lotto products. Some retailers that have very large volume may get a larger quantity of books and have them displayed. I started to see a lot of retailers closing or selling their business in the last few years. More than usual I have to admit and I wanted to know what happens to the opened books of scratch off's. When I first asked this question to Lotto they answered it by using examples of unopened books of scratch off's. This was not my question but they thought I would go away if they just answered in riddles rather than give me a straight answer.
         
        So when I went on my writing campaign I again asked what happens to all the OPENED books of scratch off's that are not sold after the store goes out of business or sells their business, (when a business sells they have to give up their lotto lic and the new owners have to reapply and all these books are destroyed) I was finally told the truth. The unopened books go back to NYS lotto and redistributed to the retailers, at least that is what they told me. But what really concerned me was what happens to the opened books of scratch off's. IF a retailer is very big and for example they have 10 opened books of "Set for Life" in their bins opened and selling they ALL get destroyed.
         
        Now this may not be a big issue for some people but here in NY, when retailers open and close or sell every day it starts to add up. Thousands of scratch off tickets are getting destroyed and if they have winning tickets we will never know nor will anyone ever win that prize. If a scratch off has 3 top prizes and the retailer that went out of business or sells, had that ticket in their stock now that winning ticket gets destroyed and there are only 2 top prizes available and if those 2 tops prizes get claimed that game will continue to sell because they are waiting for the final remaining top prize to get claimed but it can't get claimed because it got destroyed and so NYS Lotto gets to sell that game to the public with the idea that there is still 1 more top prize left but that particular top prize was destroyed when the retailer went out of business or sold so it can never be claimed, This is really unfair when you start to think about it.
         
        Technically Lotto has to stop selling a game when all top prizes are claimed. But if retailers that go out of business or sell have their opened books destroyed, we the public will keep buying that particular game thinking there is still another prize left, but in reality it was destroyed and we are really buying on false hopes.
         
        I asked lotto why this policy is in place. They would not answer my question. I asked why opened books cannot be put back into another retailer or even better why lotto themselves do not sell the opened books of scratch off's that otherwise would not be sold, or put them into their machines, so that we have a fair chance of buying these books, they told me it was too much work. I really believe that this is how NYS makes more money and deceives the public legally and they can keep selling these games until whenever they want to whether there is a top prize available or not, unless all the top prizes are truly claimed. This is really unfair. Especially when someone like me played regularly and loved to play, until I found out recently about this little dirty secret.  
         
        In NY, where real estate is climbing to record heights in rents, stores cannot stay in business anymore. So Lotto is making a fortune by being able to destroy thousands of scratch off's a month and they deceive us into thinking there is still a winner left, when in fact, it was destroyed because of this stupid policy.
         
        I think that people need to question this policy and ask for changes in the law so that we have a fair advantage in winning. If more people start asking questions they will be forced to admit that this gives an unfair disadvantage to the public and they get to destroy tickets. (For example, there is a store on Liberty Ave in Richmond Hill, that has 10 books opened for the top 5 selling games and than has 3 books opened for the rest of all the scratch off games. That starts to calculate into thousands of books in that one store when he either goes out of business or sells his business.
         
        I want to know what other lotto players think about this law and I want to know if there is enough people that do not like this policy for me to go further with this dirty secret. I would like to know if you find this a major hindrance into your buying these scratch off's now that you know this secret. Some games have been going on for very long times with the same amount of top prizes left and I wonder of they got destroyed and just keep selling the game until they sell out all the tickets that were printed. This really does leave a lot of room for corruption not in stealing but in selling a game with the idea that the top prize is out there when in reality it probably got destroyed when a business went out or sold its business.
         
        Do you think this is a problem in the system and should it be changed? I want to know what people think. Thank you for your time and I am sorry I went on too long but I wanted to make sure that you understood the problem in the best way I could explain it so that there was no confusion in this whole concept.
         
         
        Sam-Ozone Park Queens

        What an excellent inquiry. We need more people like you in all states taking lottery officials to task. NYS Lottery is especially suspect because they're the ones that refused to cooperate with a Dateline investigation into corruption. Why would they be against that???? 

        I'm in FL, but I suppose the same thing applies. I've always been uneasy about scratch-offs, and just recently I stopped playing them altogether.

        We have a new instant online game called Lucky Lines, which I like a lot better than scratchers.

        "...a chance to push everything aside, the circumstances that've controlled our lives, and do it our way now. Good, bad or otherwise. You'll maybe get lost in it, tied up in it a little bit, but if you work your way through that the real you shows up, I think. Maybe what's at your core deep down, maybe that comes out. Maybe that's what it's about." Mike Pace 

          GiveFive's avatar - Lottery-026.jpg
          NY State
          United States
          Member #92611
          June 10, 2010
          2061 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: October 28, 2010, 9:39 am - IP Logged

          Thanks for sharing what you've uncovered.  I rarely buy scratch-off's, so the impact to me is almost nil. I agree that it's unfair and The NYS Lottery needs to do something to fix it. 

          While it certainly is possible for a top prize winner to be destroyed, isnt the likelyhood that it has happened (or will happen) very small?  I guess that depends upon the amount of scratchers that get destroyed, and even though they probably have it, I doubt The NYS Lotto would reveal that information. 

          I wish I had a creative solution I could offer The NYS Lottery but I dont.

            rdgrnr's avatar - walt
            -Ridge Runner- Oracle of the Appalachians
            Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
            United States
            Member #73904
            April 28, 2009
            14903 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: October 28, 2010, 12:52 pm - IP Logged

            I think you should go to the newspapers if you have some documentation. (A letter admitting it perhaps)

            This is big news.

            And let me add one more question. Who is in charge of destroying the tickets and is it supervised and/or filmed? What are the chances that one or a number of employees got the opportunity to scratch some or all of those tickets and cash them in?

            You might have just scratched the surface of some major corruption.

            No wonder they warned their retailers when there was a sting going on. Some of them might know whose closet the skeletons are in.

            Good work and I hope you pursue it further.


                                                         
                                 
                                                     

             

             

             

             

                                                                                                               

            "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                        --Edmund Burke

             

             

              B$Rizzle's avatar - a4leds
              The Ville, FL
              United States
              Member #95881
              August 19, 2010
              1708 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: October 28, 2010, 1:20 pm - IP Logged

              Interesting.....

               

              This is one of the main reasons I only play scratch-off games with most of the top prizes remaining. I never play ones that only have a couple top prizes left. I think everyone should adopt that rule.

              Why play a game if there is only a few winners left? Why not just play the ones with most of the top prizes remaining anyways?  New games come out all of the time giving a fresh start. I changed my strategy and only play one scratcher at a time until a top prize winner hits, then Ill play another game that hasnt had a top prize in a while.

                Set4life's avatar - 2554
                East Hampton, NY
                United States
                Member #41995
                June 25, 2006
                1134 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: October 30, 2010, 7:10 pm - IP Logged

                <snip> that is realli funny... bc today i was wondering about that $20 game "win for life spectacular"  its been around for like 5 years???  and there is still 4 first prizes left, 11 for second .... kinda fishy..

                This post has been automatically changed by the Lottery Post computer system to remove inappropriate content and/or spam.

                     $Group Hug$

                     FOR THE WIN!

                  Nino224's avatar - Lottery-013.jpg
                  Miami
                  United States
                  Member #62793
                  July 9, 2008
                  669 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: October 31, 2010, 1:35 am - IP Logged

                  <snip> that is realli funny... bc today i was wondering about that $20 game "win for life spectacular"  its been around for like 5 years???  and there is still 4 first prizes left, 11 for second .... kinda fishy..

                  This post has been automatically changed by the Lottery Post computer system to remove inappropriate content and/or spam.

                  I smell a huge rat at the NY Lottery.

                  "...a chance to push everything aside, the circumstances that've controlled our lives, and do it our way now. Good, bad or otherwise. You'll maybe get lost in it, tied up in it a little bit, but if you work your way through that the real you shows up, I think. Maybe what's at your core deep down, maybe that comes out. Maybe that's what it's about." Mike Pace 

                    Avatar
                    New Member
                    brooklyn ny
                    United States
                    Member #94940
                    July 30, 2010
                    20 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: November 3, 2010, 3:03 pm - IP Logged

                    <snip> that is realli funny... bc today i was wondering about that $20 game "win for life spectacular"  its been around for like 5 years???  and there is still 4 first prizes left, 11 for second .... kinda fishy..

                    This post has been automatically changed by the Lottery Post computer system to remove inappropriate content and/or spam.

                    WOW! that is intresting because 5 years ago i was underage i thout that this sucker was mabe 2 years old or something like it... it is diffrenet from the other NY srcach offs with the fact that its coated different try it out for your self you'll see what I mean with that.

                     

                    (Just to finish i just bought to day the win for life spectacular and of course i lost $20)

                      Avatar

                      United States
                      Member #61296
                      May 17, 2008
                      187 Posts
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                      Posted: November 26, 2010, 7:58 pm - IP Logged

                      Rgse90 is dead on.. I live on the border of NY, and Ive seen that $20 win for life gm forever now.. And its the kiss of death game, Ive seen guys buy it over and over again and everytime a loser. Its so true about the very high rent, not to mention taxe$ they pay each month for those stores, so they frequently go out of business and there is a ton of turnover in those bodegas.. Now they are destroying potentially winning tickets, or worse, just cashing in on reselling a bunch of old losers is criminal....

                        sully16's avatar - sharan
                        Listens to the wind

                        United States
                        Member #81740
                        October 28, 2009
                        19216 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: November 27, 2010, 8:47 am - IP Logged

                        me and scratchers really don't mix, now I am more convinced to stay away.

                        thanks for the heads up.

                        There's only one US Flag

                          Avatar

                          United States
                          Member #97731
                          September 22, 2010
                          321 Posts
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                          Posted: November 28, 2010, 12:32 am - IP Logged

                          me and scratchers really don't mix, now I am more convinced to stay away.

                          thanks for the heads up.

                          Suit yourself, but I have won hundreds more on scratch-offs than online draw games. You do win a whole lot more. I am the current point in my life where I rarely play jackpot games anymore, only occasionally. I can spend $20 on jackpot games and not win a thing, but that usually never happens with the right scratch-offs. The secret is to know the overall odds, the top prize, and the number of top prizes left. I go for the game with the best odds, and the most money left. If a game has no more top prizes, I will not play it.

                          The new games are good sometimes, but $1 tickets rarely pay off (even though I won $100 on a $1 ticket, but that wa the exception, not the rule, and given 100:0 payout, had that been a $20 ticket, I would have won $2,000). For me, $5 gives me the most bang for my buck. I have won $20 - $25 on scratch offs, a fair number of times. Not too bad when you can make 4 times what you spend sometimes, sometimes even more. Lets assume that an average game that pays decently returns 5 times what you put in. You can reasonably expect that to happen if you play even modestly. So you spend $1 and win $5. Not really worth my time or effort. But $5 to make $25, that is good. You would expect a decent $20 ticket to pay $50 to $100, if you win anything larger than a ticket. Bigger risks usually equal bigger payouts. Finding that happy medium, and not going crazy buying a ton of tickets is the way to win.

                          I like to spend $5 to $20 most of the time. It might be 1 $20 ticket, or 4 $5 tickets, or any combination thereabouts. One really good idea is to buy tickets around town, and that increases your odds dramatically. I am winning almost 1 out of every 2 times I play at a certain store, on a certain ticket, and I am ahead by $60 there. Until something changes, I see no reason to change my strategy.

                            sully16's avatar - sharan
                            Listens to the wind

                            United States
                            Member #81740
                            October 28, 2009
                            19216 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: November 28, 2010, 8:08 am - IP Logged

                            Suit yourself, but I have won hundreds more on scratch-offs than online draw games. You do win a whole lot more. I am the current point in my life where I rarely play jackpot games anymore, only occasionally. I can spend $20 on jackpot games and not win a thing, but that usually never happens with the right scratch-offs. The secret is to know the overall odds, the top prize, and the number of top prizes left. I go for the game with the best odds, and the most money left. If a game has no more top prizes, I will not play it.

                            The new games are good sometimes, but $1 tickets rarely pay off (even though I won $100 on a $1 ticket, but that wa the exception, not the rule, and given 100:0 payout, had that been a $20 ticket, I would have won $2,000). For me, $5 gives me the most bang for my buck. I have won $20 - $25 on scratch offs, a fair number of times. Not too bad when you can make 4 times what you spend sometimes, sometimes even more. Lets assume that an average game that pays decently returns 5 times what you put in. You can reasonably expect that to happen if you play even modestly. So you spend $1 and win $5. Not really worth my time or effort. But $5 to make $25, that is good. You would expect a decent $20 ticket to pay $50 to $100, if you win anything larger than a ticket. Bigger risks usually equal bigger payouts. Finding that happy medium, and not going crazy buying a ton of tickets is the way to win.

                            I like to spend $5 to $20 most of the time. It might be 1 $20 ticket, or 4 $5 tickets, or any combination thereabouts. One really good idea is to buy tickets around town, and that increases your odds dramatically. I am winning almost 1 out of every 2 times I play at a certain store, on a certain ticket, and I am ahead by $60 there. Until something changes, I see no reason to change my strategy.

                            Wtg, Carhauler, I wish you the best. Cheers

                            There's only one US Flag