Drawn from the Future or Pushed from the Past?Prev TopicNext Topic

• Lido Shuffle

  

  United States
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  April 23, 2015
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  May 2, 2015, 4:11 pm

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  When we consider the next numbers in any lottery game, what must our initial axiom be?

  Are the numbers a product of past patterns, or are they destined to be what they will be in the next drawing regardless of the past?

  If they are attracted to the mean, what kind of force is that?

  I don't mean to be so philosophical, but there are lots of ways to analyze the data. What road we take would seem to depend on our initial assumptions, right?

  What are your initial assumptions?

  Lido missed the boat that day he left the shack, but that was all he missed, and he ain't coming back. 
• Igamble

  

  nj
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  August 10, 2013
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  May 2, 2015, 10:42 pm

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  In response to Lido Shuffle

  Quote: Originally posted by Lido Shuffle on May 2, 2015

  When we consider the next numbers in any lottery game, what must our initial axiom be?

  Are the numbers a product of past patterns, or are they destined to be what they will be in the next drawing regardless of the past?

  If they are attracted to the mean, what kind of force is that?

  I don't mean to be so philosophical, but there are lots of ways to analyze the data. What road we take would seem to depend on our initial assumptions, right?

  What are your initial assumptions?

  They follow a specific pattern,the lottery officals do not like that... so they have 4,5 pre draws in some states,non ball machine draws and /or other schems and future changes cos they do not like that natural events  have such a perfect pattern .

  Do not play and revolt as you see this changes implemented in your state draws. Bigger matrix, non mechanical draws- those are signs of screwing up the players !!
• Murgatroyd

  

  Arizona
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  March 24, 2015
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  May 4, 2015, 11:43 pm

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  Initial axiom: the drawings are intended to be truly random, whether or not they turn out to be so in practice.

  If truly random, past drawings have no relevance to the next one. It is possible, but not certain, that analysis of past drawings may reveal that the "random" method is less random than intended, and may reveal ways to increase your chances of winning.

  Attraction to the mean is a purely probabilistic phenomenon, and has no relevance to any single drawing.
• Lido Shuffle

  

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  April 23, 2015
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  May 5, 2015, 11:58 pm

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  Very interesting, Murgatroyd. So, do you believe the lottery is truly random? It seems that if it was, there would be no possible discernible pattern. Is there any one thing you think might be "pattern-like"?

  Lido missed the boat that day he left the shack, but that was all he missed, and he ain't coming back. 
• bobby623

  

  San Angelo, Texas
  United States
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  January 31, 2003
  1,648 Posts
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  May 6, 2015, 4:06 pm

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  In response to Lido Shuffle

  Quote: Originally posted by Lido Shuffle on May 2, 2015

  When we consider the next numbers in any lottery game, what must our initial axiom be?

  Are the numbers a product of past patterns, or are they destined to be what they will be in the next drawing regardless of the past?

  If they are attracted to the mean, what kind of force is that?

  I don't mean to be so philosophical, but there are lots of ways to analyze the data. What road we take would seem to depend on our initial assumptions, right?

  What are your initial assumptions?

  I think most serious lottery gamblers accept the fact that the drawing machines have no memory.
  Therefore, any pattern(s) a player sees in the drawing results is imaginary.
  There seems to be two schools of thought:
  1. The winning combinations are being 'managed' by some unseen force; therefore, any workout attempting to predict
  the next winning combination has to have a mathematical base.
  2. Because the lottery balls are lifeless and are as dumb as dirt, any workout has to be non-mathematical in nature.
  Unfortunately, 99.9 percent of the workouts use a mathematical formula of some sort that is suppose to
  reverse engineer the machines and provide a definite path to happiness.
  About 25 years of mostly unsuccessful workouts pretty well shows that the traditional means of analyzing lottery history
  has failed, at least, as far as is known.
  A review of the non-mathematical workouts provides mixed results, mainly because the folks who designed the
  schemes seem unable to define their work in terms that other folks can understand and replicate.
  So, the answer to your question about 'initial axiom' is that lottery folks, in my opinion, make individual decisions on how to proceed.
  They can copy the strategies they find posted here at LP; they can invest in a commercial lottery product; or, they can sit down and
  design a personal method.
  It's said that there is a sucker born every minute.
  This can be reworded to state that 'there are 10,000 lottery suckers born every second', and there are thousands of 'workout experts' taking
  advantage of the situation by dispensing what can be best described as a 'bunch of garbage' to folks who don't understand what they are up against.
  I have a personal workout that is the result of many years of trial and effort.
  When I play and lose I blame myself.
  Of course, I'm elated when I win because winning a lottery game is perhaps one of the most difficult tasks for any gambler.
  Final word - figure it out yourself and stick with it.
• SergeM

  

  Economy class
  Belgium
  Member #123,694
  February 27, 2012
  4,035 Posts
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  May 7, 2015, 5:43 am

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  In response to Lido Shuffle

  Quote: Originally posted by Lido Shuffle on May 2, 2015

  When we consider the next numbers in any lottery game, what must our initial axiom be?

  Are the numbers a product of past patterns, or are they destined to be what they will be in the next drawing regardless of the past?

  If they are attracted to the mean, what kind of force is that?

  I don't mean to be so philosophical, but there are lots of ways to analyze the data. What road we take would seem to depend on our initial assumptions, right?

  What are your initial assumptions?

  In theory there is a chance that every drawing will be composed by the same numbers.

  What is your algorithm for that?

  
• MillionsWanted

  

  Norway
  Member #9,517
  December 10, 2004
  1,904 Posts
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  May 7, 2015, 4:30 pm

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  In response to bobby623

  Quote: Originally posted by bobby623 on May 6, 2015

  I think most serious lottery gamblers accept the fact that the drawing machines have no memory.
  Therefore, any pattern(s) a player sees in the drawing results is imaginary.
  There seems to be two schools of thought:
  1. The winning combinations are being 'managed' by some unseen force; therefore, any workout attempting to predict
  the next winning combination has to have a mathematical base.
  2. Because the lottery balls are lifeless and are as dumb as dirt, any workout has to be non-mathematical in nature.
  Unfortunately, 99.9 percent of the workouts use a mathematical formula of some sort that is suppose to
  reverse engineer the machines and provide a definite path to happiness.
  About 25 years of mostly unsuccessful workouts pretty well shows that the traditional means of analyzing lottery history
  has failed, at least, as far as is known.
  A review of the non-mathematical workouts provides mixed results, mainly because the folks who designed the
  schemes seem unable to define their work in terms that other folks can understand and replicate.
  So, the answer to your question about 'initial axiom' is that lottery folks, in my opinion, make individual decisions on how to proceed.
  They can copy the strategies they find posted here at LP; they can invest in a commercial lottery product; or, they can sit down and
  design a personal method.
  It's said that there is a sucker born every minute.
  This can be reworded to state that 'there are 10,000 lottery suckers born every second', and there are thousands of 'workout experts' taking
  advantage of the situation by dispensing what can be best described as a 'bunch of garbage' to folks who don't understand what they are up against.
  I have a personal workout that is the result of many years of trial and effort.
  When I play and lose I blame myself.
  Of course, I'm elated when I win because winning a lottery game is perhaps one of the most difficult tasks for any gambler.
  Final word - figure it out yourself and stick with it.

  Of course there is no "memory". But the lottery machine and lottery balls often have patterns in the draws

  A pattern happens because the lottery machine and lottery balls behave like they do because of design and wear and tear.
• Tialuvslotto

  

  Texas
  United States
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  December 31, 2013
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  May 9, 2015, 8:08 am

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  Humans are pattern recognizing machines -- it's what we do.  Do we sometimes get carried away and see patterns that aren't there?  Maybe.  But I think it is more likely that we are just focusing on a pattern that isn't relevant in the current situation.

  Lottery is full of patterns -- each draw is composed of even numbers and odd, high and low, repeats from the last game, sums, etc. And each of these statistics has a distribution.  If the statistic gets too out of whack, it WILL revert to the mean.  Maybe not in the next draw, but you know that it is coming.  For example, if your lottery draws have been composed of all even numbers for 4 draws in a row, you know that some odd numbers are coming up.  Which odd numbers and when they will arrive are more difficult to predict.

  So, my basic assumptions are:

  1.  The current lottery draw is related to past lottery draws by the continuation of a variety of patterns; and

  2.  Statistics will always revert to the mean -- what is scarce now will be plentiful at some future point and vice versa.

  "There is no such thing as luck; only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe."

  ~Robert A. Heinlein
• RJOh

  

  100

  mid-Ohio
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  March 24, 2001
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  May 14, 2015, 7:43 am

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  In response to Tialuvslotto

  Quote: Originally posted by Tialuvslotto on May 9, 2015

  Humans are pattern recognizing machines -- it's what we do.  Do we sometimes get carried away and see patterns that aren't there?  Maybe.  But I think it is more likely that we are just focusing on a pattern that isn't relevant in the current situation.

  Lottery is full of patterns -- each draw is composed of even numbers and odd, high and low, repeats from the last game, sums, etc. And each of these statistics has a distribution.  If the statistic gets too out of whack, it WILL revert to the mean.  Maybe not in the next draw, but you know that it is coming.  For example, if your lottery draws have been composed of all even numbers for 4 draws in a row, you know that some odd numbers are coming up.  Which odd numbers and when they will arrive are more difficult to predict.

  So, my basic assumptions are:

  1.  The current lottery draw is related to past lottery draws by the continuation of a variety of patterns; and

  2.  Statistics will always revert to the mean -- what is scarce now will be plentiful at some future point and vice versa.

  If one thinks he sees patterns it's easy to prove by classifying every drawn combination with the same formula and seeing if any significant groups evolve.  I doubt if any one would want to reveal their findings until after they proved worthless to their efforts of trying to win jackpot.

   * you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones * 

         
  
• Stack47

  

  Kentucky
  United States
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  February 14, 2006
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  May 29, 2015, 10:43 pm

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  In response to RJOh

  Quote: Originally posted by RJOh on May 14, 2015

  If one thinks he sees patterns it's easy to prove by classifying every drawn combination with the same formula and seeing if any significant groups evolve.  I doubt if any one would want to reveal their findings until after they proved worthless to their efforts of trying to win jackpot.

  It depends on how many combos are these patterns. Even if it's a distinct 2 or 3 odd numbers in a 5/39 game, it will take few more patterns just to hopefully get a number of combos to play and to break even.

  Pick-3 and pick-4 games are probably better suited for patterns or finding indicators of when the patterns should appear than the jackpot games. I have no idea what somebody would consider a distinct pattern in the jackpot games.
• JKING

  

  United States
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  July 13, 2004
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  May 30, 2015, 2:49 am

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  Hi,

    What was the data previous to the last draw (assuming you are collecting the right kind of data). The numbers picked in the draw is the answer to that data set. So, it is a matter of weather or not you can reverse engineer the logic. 

     Solutions will be found if you start simple with the best you have that works and then take small steps on expanding, always double checking the performance along the way.

     Just one persons opinion.

  You are a slave to the choices you have made.  jk

  Even a blind squirrel will occasionally find an acorn.

  There is no elevator to success, you will have to take the stairs.
• RJOh

  

  100

  mid-Ohio
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  March 24, 2001
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  May 30, 2015, 2:15 pm

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  In response to Stack47

  Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on May 29, 2015

  It depends on how many combos are these patterns. Even if it's a distinct 2 or 3 odd numbers in a 5/39 game, it will take few more patterns just to hopefully get a number of combos to play and to break even.

  Pick-3 and pick-4 games are probably better suited for patterns or finding indicators of when the patterns should appear than the jackpot games. I have no idea what somebody would consider a distinct pattern in the jackpot games.

  "Pick-3 and pick-4 games are probably better suited for patterns or finding indicators of when the patterns should appear than the jackpot games."

  A lot of pick3/4 players make that argument about every lottery system believing since the odds of winning are better the same must be true for any system working.  I use to get PMs from them all the time suggesting my efforts at winning a jackpot game would be better spent playing pick3/4 games.  I think I finally convinced them I had no interest in winning those games.

   * you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones * 

         
  
• adobea78

  

  United States
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  September 8, 2011
  5,094 Posts
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  May 30, 2015, 11:59 pm

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  In response to Lido Shuffle

  Quote: Originally posted by Lido Shuffle on May 2, 2015

  When we consider the next numbers in any lottery game, what must our initial axiom be?

  Are the numbers a product of past patterns, or are they destined to be what they will be in the next drawing regardless of the past?

  If they are attracted to the mean, what kind of force is that?

  I don't mean to be so philosophical, but there are lots of ways to analyze the data. What road we take would seem to depend on our initial assumptions, right?

  What are your initial assumptions?

  Perception, perception! Do you see with your mind or the eye? Google ' how your eyes trick your mind', and maybe ' the perceived patterns' may be just illusions. Humans need pattern for sense of orientation, hence survival. The posed question is a philosophical one, so must be the axiom. The ideal the some states are 'screwing' wagers with pre-trials is just absurd. If you see patterns everywhere, RNG States should be your friend, since you believe in non-random nature of lottery. Perceptions will change your mindset (good or bad is subjective), so my answer is ' the event is random', with this, I perceive  probability distribution  and inference of a data different.
• SergeM

  

  Economy class
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  February 27, 2012
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  May 31, 2015, 12:40 pm

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  You can calculate the cases with mathematics, but forecasting a combination correctly might be a piece of witchcraft.

  Humans tend to play patterns, but they do not win with them as easily. It is rather like sticking to a bet or systematically playing the same thinking algorithm.

  Humans are not able to recognize small patterns most of the time. They are slower than a computer. They are mostly limited to low and high recognition, or something easy like that. Few of us, like memory world champions, have a good recognition of patterns and sequences as they can recall them easily. I would have to program the computer and run the code on data to read the results.

  
• SergeM

  

  Economy class
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  May 31, 2015, 12:50 pm

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  There is no time like past and future, there always is only now.

  The wideness of different to similar outcomes is what you call random.

  You wrote a question and didn't develop the mathematics, neither the observations.

  Finally, a jackpot payout might be one dollar or less if everybody wins. See Bruce Almighty if you don't get it.