Wisconsin Lottery switches to computers to select winning numbers

Comment #41

CASH Only — Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:22:25 GMT

We see the future...

Comment #40

four4me — Tue, 30 Nov 2004 05:22:53 GMT

no way no how would i play a pick 5/6/ Rng game. Bad enought they do it with pick 3 and 4 in many places now.

Comment #39

CASH Only — Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:57:50 GMT

Me too about Hot Lotto, even if it switches to RNG draws.

Comment #38

four4me — Fri, 19 Nov 2004 06:39:38 GMT

OK hears my take on RNG's. Say you have an RNG system in place. You have a central computer that spits out tickets random and people's choices. The data is stored on the central computer of all the numbers selected that day for pick 3, 4, and 5, drawings. The draw time is approximately 30 minutes after the cut off point. Now you have 30 minutes to doctor the rng to pay out a percentage of the take. The rng generator can receive a code or accept a program that will deselect any given amount of nu... [ More ]

Comment #37

Jumikee — Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:56:00 GMT

I mean really.....IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK???? Just to be able to see the daily numbers drawn on tv after Wheel of Fortune every night? I don't think this is too much to expect. The state expects me to spend money on their lottery (thats almost impossible to win) and now wants to give us all the shaft again. I cant believe the state doesn't think it has to show the drawings on tv anymore! If people don't have the guts to boycott the lottery then every state will be using electronic draw... [ More ]

Comment #36

Jumikee — Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:39:34 GMT

I'm just waiting for Ohio to switch to an RNG....when they do, I'm done for good! I'm so fed up with losing the Pick 3/4 lottery that I have just about had enough! I can't even break even as it is, so if they move to RNG, I swear to god I will quit! Some people are addicted so bad that they will keep playing and this is what the lottery officials are counting on. Poor gambling addicts who can't stop playing. I would NEVER consider playing anymore if I cant even view the drawings on tv.... [ More ]

Comment #35

BobP — Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:52:15 GMT

For me I prefer the lottery to work they way it is supposed to with live hosts drawing balls. If the game doesn't make enough money to do it right then find another game, don't cheap'n it with a secret draw behind computer graphics.I'd like to think the game is predictable to some extent and play as if it were. I would play differently or not at all if a computer drew the numbers. The various lotteries need to understand the needs of their players and consider some groups such as lottery softw... [ More ]

Comment #34

Todd — Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:54:37 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by chuck32 on November 13, 2004....I will bring up the comments here next time I get together with the directors and the talk turns to RNG's, but there many factors, and surveys of larger numbers of voices, that will be involved with the decision.There are many people here who will be greatly appreciative of that - thanks!By the way, you also have a number of Hot Lotto supporters here (including me), who would like to see that game expand to other jurisdictions.

Comment #33

urbossmanpimpin — Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:17:56 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by Rick G on November 13, 2004Imagine if you went to a casino and every slot machine was just an LED readout of a random number instead of 7's, bars, cherries etc. on reels. Or if you went to a racetrack with no horses, just the announcer telling you the winner. Or if you sat down at a blackjack table without cards or dealer, a roulette table with no wheel or ball, but just LED readouts that say you win or you lose . The gambler wants the full entertainment of the... [ More ]

Comment #32

smd173 — Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:22:37 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by chuck32 on November 13, 2004Triples and Quads not imaginative? The most popular lotto numbers for nearly every state are 1-2-3-4-5-6. Sometimes 5-10-15-20-25-30 comes close; then lines on the playslip (diagonals, etc.); followed by whatever numbers a popular lottery column might be predicting. They do have the same chance as any other number, of course, just a lot of sharing going on.Very true. Here is the PA Cash 5 from earlier this year:Fri, February 6, 2004Cash

Comment #31

chuck32 — Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:51:29 GMT

Todd,I was having a little fun with the comment about fraud and mechanicals. Of course, RNG's haven't been around long enough to get much history and they are happening at a time when the drawing process has become extremely controlled. It certainly is people who commit the fraud - and the reason that the process, rather than the method, is the key to having a fair drawing. I agree that there is just something about a mechanical drawing - kind of like watching the needle drop on a spinning LP... [ More ]

Comment #30

Todd — Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:18:30 GMT

Chuck,You're correct about the slot machines. Even the ones that have spinning wheels are actually precisely controlled by computer.The listening to lottery players topic is always an interesting one, because I always wonder what players they're listening to. For example, the state of Pennsylvania recently came up with the much-maligned Match 6 game - based on player input . I personally don't think any normal lottery player could possibly conceive of that mess. I think they heard we wan... [ More ]

Comment #29

chuck32 — Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:31:50 GMT

Of course, most slots these days are RNG's with a pretty graphics engine. Not sure how many true mechanical reels are out there anymore. I'm meeting with the major slots vendors next week and will try to remember to ask. Most lottery RNG's are also capable of high-end graphic output. Oddly, many output computer-generated ball drawing machines, for those few people who still whatch lottery drawings on TV.Triples and Quads not imaginative? The most popular lotto numbers for nearly every state... [ More ]

Comment #28

Rick G — Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:40:27 GMT

Imagine if you went to a casino and every slot machine was just an LED readout of a random number instead of 7's, bars, cherries etc. on reels. Or if you went to a racetrack with no horses, just the announcer telling you the winner. Or if you sat down at a blackjack table without cards or dealer, a roulette table with no wheel or ball, but just LED readouts that say you win or you lose . The gambler wants the full entertainment of the act, not just the final result. They want balls jumpi... [ More ]

Comment #27

bobby jones — Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:22:20 GMT

this is kind of scary for illinois also.i mean that wisconsin is right around the corner from illinois.if they were to do that here i would stop playing all together.illinois is corrupt enough can u imagine mayor daley and his friends running the lottery this way.look we are the people and we have the power to stop any corporation.all we have to do as people is not to by there products.everyone in wisconsin or at least 50 percent of the people there should stop playing the lottery just for one d... [ More ]

Comment #26

dvdiva — Sat, 13 Nov 2004 04:44:55 GMT

Lotteries don't care what their customers want. Hence no televized drawings. They will only care when the first scandal happens that the numbers weren't random and someone cheated. The extreme negative effect that would have on their bottom line would force them to go back to televized ball drawings. Short of that I think all drawings will be out of the public eye and computerized soon.

Comment #25

lottoscorp — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:55:34 GMT

Chuck32, I stand corrected. But I do not believe Connecticut had that Sales Stop feature back then. I wouldn't be surprised if they were using that feature in their on-line system now. Like increasing numbers, (balls) I can see Powerball or USAMega doing it, they are a Multi-State Lottery. I cannot see the States doing it. They don't really need to do it. Now there, the size of a playing-population comes into play as an issue. Truth, I suspect the public is becoming too smart with the technolo... [ More ]

Comment #24

DoctorEw220 — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:30:11 GMT

yes. before PA finaly drew a triple and a quad in their mid-day drawing, there was a lot of speculaton as to whether or not their mid-day drawings were rigged. with computerized drawings, integrity and fairness of the drawings will come into question, especially when there have been states that have released their results too soon, and take a long time from the cutoff to draw the numbers. i should hope that powerball or mega millions never sinks low enough to go to an RNG. the MUSL already does

Comment #23

lottoscorp — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 23:29:14 GMT

Interesting. PegLeg I guess it is hard to bring my next point across without stepping on some toes but, A power strategy one that embraces the direct dynamics of the drawings is what we should be looking at. Chuck32 I thank you for your Pa displays of quads but, I am left with the impression, most people play triples quads (Those less knowledgeable.) because they either have an attraction for them or the numbers are easier, to select.Ah Yes, Mr. LANTERN. It doesn't matter how the numbers are d... [ More ]

Comment #22

Todd — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:17:30 GMT

Lantern, I disagree. It DOES matter how the numbers are drawn.

Comment #21

LANTERN — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:34:31 GMT

I tell everybody everywhere right now that it does not whatsoever matters what system(s) the state lotteries use for their draws, 100% sure that it does not matter at all, if the state lotteries have been, are or will, FIX their draws, they would, regardless of any drawing method(s) used, in spite of you, me (I) and or everybody else anywhere, I am of course not saying at all, that the lottery draws have been, are and or will be FIXED , just that if they were to be, they would be regardless... [ More ]

Comment #20

jim695 — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:07:42 GMT

In a Pick-4 game drawn with ping-pong balls, I know for a fact that my overall odds of winning are 1 in 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 = 10,000. In a Pick-3 game using the same method, I can see that my odds are 1 in 10 X 10 X 10 = 1,000.Looking at a computerized random number generator, how would I do the math? People of Wisconsin, keep a very close eye on your upcoming payouts, especially in your daily games. Now that your state has decided that the integrity of the game isn't worth the comparitively few... [ More ]

Comment #19

chuck32 — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:56:12 GMT

I think a player can know with confidence (as opposed to knowing absolutely) by understanding the process. Though not exactly the same, both mechanical and RNG's have similar issues. Most players can feel comfortable knowing that the RNG is designed and built by one company, then torn apart and reviewed by highly skilled independent testing firms and is then evaluated again by the lottery and/or audit firm. All components are examined to ensure that no wireless capability exists.RNG drawing... [ More ]

Comment #18

JADELottery — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:44:36 GMT

Ms. Fluff and Mr. Confusion have taken up residence here at 888 Lottery Post Way. They have been throwing some well funded parties and creating alot of noise. Their objective is to upset and create doubt in the minds of the other residence. However, there are other tenants living here that see through their plan, Ms. Truth and Mr. Fact. Although there may be no eviction by managment, there will be a 'virtual' eviction in the minds of the other residence.

Comment #17

bobby623 — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:29:34 GMT

My objection to computer drawings is the possibility that the computers will have a network card buried in the software. Using wireless technology, the computer could, during the 30 minutes between the time sales are halted and the drawing, scan a nearby lottery computer and come up with winning numbers that would minimize lottery losses.Despite multiple shielding, almost all electronic devices have unwanted and sometimes compromising radiation, even when the device is operated within a screen r... [ More ]

Comment #16

pegleg — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:46:35 GMT

Lottoscorp: As far as Wisconsin is concerned, weather you are for or against computerized drawings, the very idea of keeping the drawing out of the publics view, should warrant a boycott of the games by the public. A one week boycott should get the message across. Think of your money not spent on the lottery as a saving for Christmas presents for the family.pegleg

Comment #15

lottoscorp — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:51:35 GMT

I'll bring it up again. Approximately 1987-1989 The Connecticut Lottery ran into a little trouble with their Pick3 drawing. Appearantly, everyone in the State and surrounding States played 555 or 513 on a May 5th or on a Friday the 13th. (Criscross) and Connecticut had to borrow an additional $80 Million+ Dollars to compensate those winners. I clearly remember the Director of the Lottery (About that time.) Stating: That will never happen again in a Hartford Current Newspaper. I knew then tha... [ More ]

Comment #14

DoctorEw220 — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:17:02 GMT

Quoting Badger: Ever notice when you put the words The IRS together, it spells THEIRS ? No I have not, but it is pretty funny though.

Comment #13

Badger — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:20:40 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by JADELottery on November 12, 2004I've heard it said by someone before that the balls have no memory and you can't predicted what will occur. Now that computers are picking the numbers, they do now.If there are any lottery program developers out there reading in on this, you need to revise your probability theory, statistical analysis, and calculated predictions. Computers can only simulate real world conditions; for this, there is a possibility that trends that once ex... [ More ]

Comment #12

JADELottery — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:20:05 GMT

I've heard it said by someone before that the balls have no memory and you can't predicted what will occur. Now that computers are picking the numbers, they do now.If there are any lottery program developers out there reading in on this, you need to revise your probability theory, statistical analysis, and calculated predictions. Computers can only simulate real world conditions; for this, there is a possibility that trends that once exsisted in the natural world may now be enhanced by the narro... [ More ]

Comment #11

chuck32 — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:21:01 GMT

Giving a human response (rather than the corporate response) can sometimes get you into trouble - though not as much as I might have thought. I can think of only a few times that players ended up threatening me or sending a note of complaint to a governor somewhere. And I did get several hate mails (from all over the world) following my recent criticsim of the moralists in Idaho who are teaching children about the sin of the lottery. But, generally, people do respond better to a real respon... [ More ]

Comment #10

Todd — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 04:16:31 GMT

By the way, Chuck, good to have you on board. Too many in the industry treat the players in a very disconnected manner, and you are always very open and communicative - and sensitive to the feelings of the players. I'm sure others here would agree.I'm sure this issue will not go away for a long time - if ever. There will always be players who do not like computerized drawings. There is also a large block of players who don't care either way.I guess my main sticking points boil down to:I perc... [ More ]

Comment #9

chuck32 — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 03:03:23 GMT

I do agree that any computer system can be compromised (as can a mechanical system). It is a constant battle to study what has gone wrong and what might go wrong so that we can stay ahead of the bad guys. You are quite right that humans are a big problem. Even with our RNG, if the independent auditor, the lottery person (or persons for many states) and someone at the control ageny (in WI's case, the Department of Revenue) conspire together, they can put out a press release with any numbers as... [ More ]

Comment #8

Badger — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:55:15 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by lottoscorp on November 11, 2004I just have 3 questions:If these machines are stand-alone machines;(1). Are they tied to the online system (For reading all combo's played throughout the State of Wisconsin) via Satlink?(2). Will there be a televised display where the generated action can be viewed by the public?(3). Would the public have access to the original documents and agreements in principle, as to a standard binding policy of drawing operations for the Directo... [ More ]

Comment #7

Todd — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:18:10 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by chuck32 on November 11, 2004Pooh! I know that there are some who suggest that RNGS are not as secure, but RNG's are actually much more secure. Mechanical drawing machines have certainly been compromised and it takes a lot less skill to get that done. Our group builds RNG's for lotteries - though we do it at cost and so promoting it to make a profit is truly not an issue here.Our machines are TRUE RNG's, using unpredictable quantum decay to create the seed. The mac... [ More ]

Comment #6

MADDOG10 — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:17:35 GMT

this is really a sad day for all the lottery players in wisconsin, for all lottery players everywhere

Comment #5

chuck32 — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:55:56 GMT

Pooh! I know that there are some who suggest that RNGS are not as secure, but RNG's are actually much more secure. Mechanical drawing machines have certainly been compromised and it takes a lot less skill to get that done. Our group builds RNG's for lotteries - though we do it at cost and so promoting it to make a profit is truly not an issue here.Our machines are TRUE RNG's, using unpredictable quantum decay to create the seed. The machines are locked up tight with no operator access to the... [ More ]

Comment #4

fast eddie — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:18:08 GMT

RNG = FIX

Comment #3

Badger — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:14:01 GMT

It really is bad ! Frankly, now I wonder what is the point in trying to use any kind of method at all for my state now? If the RNGs are truly random, there will be no patterns to find. So there is nothing left but quickpicks if you want to play. I mean,. why waste valuable time and energy on it if there is nothing but truly random picks?I should have figured. Wisconsin is the 3rd highest taxed state in the USA, and the state govt is the stingiest and tightest when it comes to letting the people

Comment #2

lottoscorp — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:13:26 GMT

I just have 3 questions:If these machines are stand-alone machines;(1). Are they tied to the online system (For reading all combo's played throughout the State of Wisconsin) via Satlink?(2). Will there be a televised display where the generated action can be viewed by the public?(3). Would the public have access to the original documents and agreements in principle, as to a standard binding policy of drawing operations for the Director of Wisconsin's Lottery?These people are doing whatever th... [ More ]

Comment #1

LosingJeff — Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:40:03 GMT

Just another sad story---especially for the ppl of Wisconsin.

Wisconsin Lottery switches to computers to select winning numbers

Lottery Post — Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:57:57 GMT

Editor: The following is the full-text of a Press Release issued by the Wisconsin Lottery. It is important for Lottery Players to understand the emerging trend of computerized lottery drawings -- whether you are for or against them. More information about the subject can be found in the Lottery Post Petition for True Lottery Drawings.The Wisconsin Lottery is now one of more than a dozen U.S. lotteries to use random number generating computers to select the winning numbers for its nightly on-li... [ More ]