Newspaper takes a hard look at the N.J. Lottery

Comment #36

antiwarlover — Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:04:34 GMT

now is the time for lotteries to SERIOUSLY REDUCE SPENDING. NOW IS THE TIME TO PUT MONEY IN THE POCKETS OF THE POOR BEFORE THEY TOTALLY STOP PLAYING. IT IS SORT OF LIKE EATING FOOD WITH NO FIBRE,AFTER AWHILE PEOPLE WILL GET WISE AND START EATING HIGH FIBRE FOODS-- LEAVING POTATO CHIPS (LOTTERIES) in the dust.

Comment #35

demonter — Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:12:10 GMT

REPLY TO CHUCK 32 FROM DEMONTERCHUCK YOU SEEM TO BE CONFUSED REGARDING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE GROSS AMOUNT OF THE ANNUITY VS. THE CASH LUMP SUM.CHECK ANY LOTTERY FAQ SECTION REGARDING THE SETTLEMNT OPTIONS

Comment #34

chuck32 — Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:47:37 GMT

To Demonter from Chuck32 Re: AnnuityWe do disagree on something after all . Of course the financial experts say to take the cash - they get to invest it and make some of their own cash. Actually, I have talked to dozens of experts, though usually those who write columns for newspapers giving financial advice. After they realize how the annuity is paid out (some thought it was just saved until the end of the term) and once they realize that the winner pays out nearly half of the cash amount in... [ More ]

Comment #33

demonter — Wed, 07 Dec 2005 03:25:08 GMT

To Chuck 32 from Demonter Re: AnnuityWhat's the half-life of the annuity value factoring in inflation? We sometimes forget that we would be getting paid in cheaper dollars every year...the half life of the purchasing power being 14-15 years into the cash flow stream. What would a buck be worth in the last few years of a 30 year annuity? Annuities are better during the first decade than during the last. The inflation risk is the biggest risk in accepting a long term payout...who knows what the va... [ More ]

Comment #32

chuck32 — Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:51:47 GMT

Yeah, I don't think that we disagree on much. I did mean to refer to you saying that the annuity was the ripoff, not the lump sum. I type faster than I think. The time value of money only means that a dollar today is equal to more dollars tomorrow due to the interest-earning capability of the cash. The lottery does invest the money, of course, and does payout more dollars in the annuity. The annuity is only a bad deal if you can do better with the investments. For most people, the annuity... [ More ]

Comment #31

demonter — Wed, 07 Dec 2005 01:45:40 GMT

To Chuck 32 from Demonter:The State's percentage is their profit; in the gambling world they refer to the bookmaker's percentage as the vigorish . Raven considers the fact the a government is taking a profit out of the play it is a TAX . According to Webster's Dictionary a tax is an imposed levy...the State's percentage is an imposed levy, therefore Raven refers to it as a TAX. That I call a semantic twist since it has the one essential ingredient common to all taxes-the fact that they are i... [ More ]

Comment #30

chuck32 — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:14:56 GMT

Well, I can't agree that the lottery is a tax - even as a semantic twist. To argue that all taxes are voluntary since you don't have to work, buy things, or own anything is a little absurd. A tax is an involuntary assessment placed on some thing of value - specifically not something that is sold by the government. The portion of the dollar that the state lottery keeps is called profit . Lotteries are indeed pretty unique in that it is a product sold by the government, but it is much more in... [ More ]

Comment #29

demonter — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:03:07 GMT

CHUCK 32:You are right, the Lottery is not a tax. Taxes are not voluntary. Raven and I have a debate going on, I agreed that the State's percentage of the player's pot can be considered a sort of a TAX since it is imposed by them as their profit; you have to pay it if you play...so with a sematic twist, yeah sure they Tax us. Que sera, sera.

Comment #28

demonter — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:55:22 GMT

In response to sirbrad on 12/06/05:The whole win doesn't become a TAX! Just about 36%..the lucky winner gets to keep most of the money. Take the cash option of course, the annuity is a ripoff. Factor in inflation (the time value of money) and the often overlooked fact that if you die anytime after you start getting your annuity, the IRS levies an immediate inheritance TAX of 25% due at once...your heirs are screwed. Get a big life insurance policy for your heirs to cover the tax. It happened to... [ More ]

Comment #27

sirbrad — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:46:20 GMT

If one wins big, it becomes a tax real quick regardless.

Comment #26

demonter — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:54:21 GMT

Respnse to Raven 62 from Demonter:Are you saying that the State's share of the Lottery is a form of Tax ? We are getting very semantical here. The Lottery as a game is a revenue gathering mechanism separate from the imposed system of taxation since, again it is voluntary. However, the state does have a disproportionate share of the overall pot relative to other forms of gambling (ie. Casinos )If it is your position that the State's large share in the Lottery Games is their TAX or as it is sa... [ More ]

Comment #25

Raven62 — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 05:42:55 GMT

In that case all are Voluntary: If you don't have Income you don't have to pay Income Tax, If you don't purchase items that are on the State Sales Tax List you don't pay Sales Tax, If you don't purchase gasoline you don't have to pay Gasoline Tax, If you don't purchase Cigarettes you don't have to pay Cigarette Tax, If you don't own Property you don't have to pay Property Tax, If you don't purchase Lottery Tickets you don't have to pay the Entertainment Tax. As soon as you do any of them the Sta... [ More ]

Comment #24

demonter — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 02:06:37 GMT

Reply To Raven 62 by Demonter:The Lottery is not a Tax...the Lottery is a voluntary game of chance, where most of the revenue is returned to the players in the form of prizes. You are stretching the semantics by calling the lottery an Entertainment Tax ....ALL TAXES ARE MANDATORY BY THE VERY DEFININTION OF TAX.LOTTERY PLAY IS VOLUNTARY...BEING VOLUNTARY IT DISQUALIFIES ITSELF FROM THE STRICT DEFINITION OF TAX. INCOME TAXES, SALES TAXES, TAXES ON CIGARETTES, LIQUOR, HIGHWAY TOLLS...THESE ARE TAXE... [ More ]

Comment #23

Raven62 — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:25:57 GMT

The Lottery is an Entertainment Tax which you pay to the State to be entertained by a Game of Chance.

Comment #22

demonter — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 21:35:12 GMT

Reply to Raven 62 from Demonter: TAX-levy imposed by state on income, property, etc.. Webster's Dictionary. Impose-to force ....Webster's Dictionary. Lotto(lottery) from the French-a game of chance ...Webster's Dictionary.A game of chance that is played VOLUNTARILY is never IMPOSED (forced), therefore Raven 62 it is not a TAX. Simply because 45% of the revenue goes to the States, does not alter the exact defination of a TAX. Unless the levy of revenue is MANDATORY...it can not be called a T... [ More ]

Comment #21

Raven62 — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:46:08 GMT

If a private company was running the Lottery it wouldn't be a Tax, however the State runs the Lottery for the purpose of obtaining State Revenue, so that makes it a Tax.As far as the $100,000,000 prize goes: That's payment for the loss of your privacy and leading other Lottery Players to the Lottery Machines in future Drawings. Marketing101: It pays to advertise. Nothing advertises better than pictures of people receiving BIG Checks (did you notice? they don't use Cash!).

Comment #20

chuck32 — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:06:27 GMT

Beware of anyone who claims that the lottery is a regressive tax . They really don't know what those words mean - they just sound bad. 1. The lottery is not a tax. Stop buying lottery tickets and stop paying your taxes and see what happens.2. At $1 for everyone, the price of a lottery ticket IS regressive (though the term is usually limited to taxes). So is milk, shoes, the price of gas, etc. 3. Are sales higher in poor areas? Probably, but that is because the gas stations and convenie... [ More ]

Comment #19

demonter — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 11:31:34 GMT

If one spreads one's play amongst the various games-I play NJ Cash 5 daily in addition to The Big Ones the chances of winning some money back increase substantially. No big fortune mind you, but a enough cash back to offset the yearly play. Study the odds, play within reason consistently for the best results, being in the game enough to stand a shot at one the the BIG HITS. Most folks I speak wiyth are erratic emotionally driven players...fine, but methofdical steady play with the better odd... [ More ]

Comment #18

sirbrad — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 11:14:29 GMT

I am sure most will consider it a tax, especially when they never win. There is NO payback for the majority...losers. Of course if you are in the lucky minority, then the terms change. Maybe you could call it your daily donations. As I said, a psychological self-imposed tax, with a lot of help from advertisements...

Comment #17

demonter — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 10:44:07 GMT

I repeat: The Lottery is not a Tax.A Tax is mandatory, required, imposed by the governing authorites to raise revenue, failure to pay means a fine/jail.The Lottery is a voluntary game, which suppliments the state government's tax revenue.Just because the Lottery money goes into Satate coffers does not transform the game into a TAX. Taxes are imposed. It ain't a Tax!Finally, what tax PAYS the taxpayers $ 100,000,000.00 prize for paying the tax?or $1,000,000.00 or $1,000.00 Get the distincttion? A... [ More ]

Comment #16

sirbrad — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 06:30:10 GMT

$30 a day?! If I had that kind of money to spend every day on the lottery I would not need it! I would find much more productive ways to put that money to good use. I only spend what I do now because the money I do spend is not enough to amout to much of anything else, even if saved for years. Poor people spend more, because they are sick of just getting by. The lottery is indeed a tax, a pyschological one with strong autosuggestion advertising. They only want you to think it is a choice...

Comment #15

harryb1978 — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 03:23:26 GMT

This is in response to the New Jersey Lottery article posted in The Star-Ledger. I don't think the article properly represented the poor buyers of the Lottery. I live on Social Security and spend $16.00 per month on the Mega Millions game. I have been playing the game since it came to New Jersey. The game brings excitement to me two times a week as I dream about what I would spend the jackpot on. Even when I don't win it's at least a source of entertainment, and most of the time a bigger jakpo... [ More ]

Comment #14

bellyache — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 03:02:36 GMT

It will be interesting to watch the following two articles that will be published tomorrow and Tuesday. A little bird whispered in my ear that a certain popular lottery website may be mentioned.Hmmm...I wonder which site that will be. I bet you will get a few more people joining because of the article

Comment #13

Todd — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 02:54:42 GMT

I look at the issue like this:The people who buy the most tickets are also the ones who win the most. So there is a real upside that a LOT of poor people becoming instant millionaires. In fact, according to the logic outlined in the article, MOST of the new millionaires should be previously-poor people.It is quite natural that rich people will not play the lottery as often as poor people. Especially the jackpot games. It also explains why so many people start buying lottery tickets when Powe... [ More ]

Comment #12

truecritic — Mon, 05 Dec 2005 02:35:40 GMT

Quote from the Star-Ledger:There are more lottery retailers per capita in lower-income areas. Bayonne, where the average income is $58,971, has one outlet for every 750 residents...I agree with the article EXCEPT for the low income part. Wonder what they call people living on Social Security making less than $10,000 per year?Anyone with an income in the range of $50,000 should be living quite well and can afford all the lottery tickets they want

Comment #11

MADDOG10 — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 23:26:26 GMT

bOTTOM LINE> Whether players are poor, or rich, or where they live or how they spend their money is not the Star-ledgers or any other newspapers buisness. It is not mine ,yours or anyone elses either. The newspaper undoubtably does,'nt have anything else to write about.If i ever get the chance to buy the Star-Ledger, I'll make sure I put it down on the floor for my dogs to use. This newspaper needs to get another bone to chew on...

Comment #10

bellyache — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 23:06:50 GMT

I always thought that you had to pay for lottery purchases with cash, until I read where that lady used her dead mother-in-laws credit card to purchase a winning ticket.

Comment #9

bellyache — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 23:05:00 GMT

I think the rich find it entertaining also, but I agree that many more poor people who play are playing for a chance of a better life.

Comment #8

Badger — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 22:12:41 GMT

I don't know about other states, but in Wisconsin you have to pay cash for any lottery purchase. No checks, no credit cards allowed. It is against the law.I doubt the woman, being an insurance agent, is one of the poor people who make 6 or 7 bucks an hour on their main full time jobs. Those people don't usually clear enough money to make bets in the amount she made.Is it a regressive tax? You could say that about almost any tax. The poor have fewer dollars. But yeah, the lottery is a tax...al... [ More ]

Comment #7

Chewie — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 21:37:05 GMT

The poor find the lottery entertaining, it is the chance at the dream. The rrich have Casino's and trips to places the poor can't afford. The end results are the same. People spend more then they can afford on what they want to spend more then they can afford. Toys are toys, it is just a matter of description.

Comment #6

JimmySand9 — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 21:10:02 GMT

Another media elite who's advocating a nanny state.Hey Star-Ledger, welcome to a capitalist society. God forbid the government try to make some money for itself without ransacking others money (taxes).

Comment #5

CASH Only — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:07:26 GMT

Why the newspaper is critical of the New Jersey Lottery I don't know. The NY Lottery is far worse.

Comment #4

demonter — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 16:37:59 GMT

SUBJECT: Lottery as Regressive Taxation vs. Progressive Income TaxFact: Lottery Play is regressive. (Poor play more percentagewise than rich)Fact: Progressive Income Tax- the rich pay a higher percentage than the poor.Fact: Income Taxes are imposed by Sate and Federal law. You MUST PAY, or face fines and imprisonment.Fact: Lottery play is voluntary.Fact: Lotteries are not taxes! They are volunatary mechanisms to raise revenue, hence their overall popularity and success worldwide.

Comment #3

konane — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 16:13:23 GMT

Per law the lottery is played by adults. The amount of dollars being spent are inflated dollars worth less year after year so the increasing numbers of $$$ is a lesser significant point in their weak argument. It is played more in lower income areas because people see it as a viable means of escaping the niche they're in and moving up the socio-economic ladder through a win. It offers both hope and a tangible means of achieving their desires which are in short supply in those areas. Winning th... [ More ]

Comment #2

demonter — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 16:06:57 GMT

This Star-Ledger Investigative Report is a rehashing of the same old stuff. Yes...poor people are more interested in winning money than the rich are. Yes it can be argued that the concept is regressive ...however it is erroneous to refer to the Lottery as a form of regressive taxation. As defined by Webster's Dictionary...A Tax is a levy imposed by the state... That's the catch, the Sate is not imposing the Lottery Games on the poor, middle class or the rich. It is voluntary. The people pa... [ More ]

Comment #1

Raven62 — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:39:52 GMT

Every Lottery State is doing what is portrayed in this article. It is safe to say that what goes on in NJ also goes on in other Lottery States.Marketing 101: Put the Lottery Machines where the Lottery Players are.

Newspaper takes a hard look at the N.J. Lottery

Lottery Post — Sun, 04 Dec 2005 12:24:18 GMT

They call her the Queen of the Lottery.Her realm: the North Broad Foodmart, a convenience store behind a gas station off Route 22 in Hillside.One evening, as the queen, aka Pat Howard, an insurance agent who lives in Newark, waits in line for the green machine, someone asks how much she spends. Maybe $20, $30 a day, she says.At this, the crowded store falls silent. Then, all at once, everyone laughs.After the queen is finished with her order, store manager Rashmi Patel spins a swivel scre... [ More ]