Mass. Lottery knew about exploited game's flaws for years, IG says

Comment #28

mcginnin56 — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 00:04:00 GMT

If any idiots could have done this to exploit Cash Winfall of most of its jackpot, why weren't they???

The only guys taking advantage of this were the M.I.T, B.U. N.E. University students, professors and scientists.

If these idiots from school could get away with it, why couldn't the likes of someone like yourself, or other similar type people?

The average joe's could have pooed their money just like the schools did, but this never happened.

Comment #27

qutgnt — Sun, 05 Aug 2012 20:11:20 GMT

There are groups out there that play pick 5 games over the country when the jackpot reaches certain levels that make the return on dollar invested positive. Usually when a jackpot is $575k or more on a 575757 to one odds game is the wagering of large amounts in the tens of thousands are justified. You are going to get back a minimum of 20% of your money bet hitting two and three out of five. You might have dry spells for a long time but over time and with big pockets you will come out a winner.

Comment #26

KY Floyd — Sun, 05 Aug 2012 06:21:03 GMT

Any average player was aware of this inherent game feature. The trick of course was all about timing your plays for when the roll down took place.

IOW, it was easy to figure out. All you had to do was actually pay attention. Those math wizards at MIT didn't do anything but some simple statistical analysis. The relevant difference between them and the average person is that the average person wouldn't have done it. Being smarter and better at math was irrelevant in this situation.

Any idio... [ More ]

Comment #25

RJOh — Sat, 04 Aug 2012 16:35:24 GMT

After the Australia investment group tried to buy all the possible combinations for the Virgina lottery in the nineties and won its jackpot which was greater than the cost of buying the tickets, states were put on alert that there were those with unlimited funds willing to spend them if they could gain an profitable advantage in any game. Most states changed their playing rules to limit the amounts groups or players could easily spend between drawings. Looks like Massachusetts had those rules bu... [ More ]

Comment #24

Stack47 — Thu, 02 Aug 2012 17:30:53 GMT

The lottery officals never considered someone would buy 80% of the tickets and the rest is basic math.

The only thing unique is a small group came up with the $600,000 to make the bet and that's probably because credible math professors convinced them a profit could be made. I doubt the average lottery player who reached the same conclusion would get the same credibility to get the necessary funding.

Even though the same conclusion about the game was reach by LP members years ago, it woul... [ More ]

Comment #23

mcginnin56 — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:01:47 GMT

Sadly I guess, many of us are still behind the curve. One day, perhaps many years from now.......we will at least catch up to the curve.........

But never quite get ahead of it.

Perhaps that is the real meaning of success in America, live rich, like rock stars crash and burn, then die broke. The end.

Comment #22

RL-RANDOMLOGIC — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:39:09 GMT

mcginnin56

I guess I am just way ahead of the curve, I did not see anything that led me to think that anyone

with the money could have came up with the same methods. I read something similar to this type

of play many years ago. I don't see anything here that even points to the need for any advanced

fields of study. The lottery officals never considered someone would buy 80% of the tickets and the

rest is basic math.

The whole purpose of my post was that things must be getting... [ More ]

Comment #21

maringoman — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 20:39:12 GMT

Megabucks Doubler is ok. I only do season tickets for that. Mass Cash burns a hole in my pockets but I want it thatway for now

Comment #20

mcginnin56 — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 19:40:55 GMT

Obviously this game was designed and set up for periodic roll downs, and this was the major draw to the game. Any average player was aware

of this inherent game feature. The trick of course was all about timing your plays for when the roll down took place. Prior to the math and science

wizards, and M.I.T. undergrads analyzing and determining that large scale betting was in their favor, this was not common knowledge at the time.

A third group of scientists, from B.U. N.E. Universit... [ More ]

Comment #19

RL-RANDOMLOGIC — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 18:17:31 GMT

Respectfully, I have to disagree. Playing any game in which the JP prize is rolled down to the lower

prizes once a certain level has been reached does not take any extra smarts. This is the way the

game was designed to attract more players. If my game rolled down and the prize for a 4of5 jumped

by a factor of ten or more times it's normal payout I would have to be seriously retarded not to jump in

on those drawings. Someone with enough cash could jump in big time and by covering the... [ More ]

Comment #18

mcginnin56 — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:07:31 GMT

Good title

Comment #17

NightStalker — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:26:46 GMT

Looks like there will be another MIT movie like 21 except this one will be called WinFall .

Comment #16

mcginnin56 — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:31:26 GMT

Respectfully, I would say that aside from some here at LP, insiders in the Mass. lottery, and those few who were very mathematically inclined to

spot this games vulnerabilities; Advanced brain power was required, in addition to bank rolling this scheme.

Hindsight is always 20/20, and looking back now, it seems obvious to spot this abnormality. But back in the day, the wool was pulled over most

peoples eyes. If it was that obvious, and no brain power was required, there would have

Comment #15

RL-RANDOMLOGIC — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 07:50:19 GMT

This statement bothers me the most.

a handful of math and science wizards, including Massachusetts Institute of Technology undergraduates

This is not the first time something like this has happened. All that is needed is the money to buy the tickets.

No advanced brain power required.

RL

Comment #14

mediabrat — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 01:52:37 GMT

I agree that it would not be a surprise if some lottery officials were on the take. It sounds far too convenient that they were only in it for the profits of the game and not for personal gain. At the very least, there were probably performance bonuses at stake that they were all too happy to let these players achieve for them.

One thing that bothers me about this -- other than the obvious flaws that have already been discussed -- is the per-store ticket limit that has been implemented. I'm s... [ More ]

Comment #13

Bingo Long — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 01:04:34 GMT

Also, stay the heck away from the Texas lottery. Something's off about it. Though, like anything else lottery related, if you read LP enough, you already knew that.

Comment #12

Bingo Long — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 00:55:08 GMT

I was one of the people who figured this system out. I'm not as active on the LP forums as I once was, but I used to be a semi-regular. I know there are other LP regulars who also figured it out. If you read all of the forums all the time, you would have come across people discussing this strategy (though not in explicit detail) years ago.

First off, I'd like to address the comment, all the illegal activities they and others were doing in order to win. No one did anything illegal. Read the or... [ More ]

Comment #11

ttech10 — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 00:16:13 GMT

spending $40 million on tickets over a seven-year period and winning an estimated $48 million.

It says they won $48 million, so does that mean they only profited $8 million? Does anyone know how many were in the group? I guess it would be worth it for the almost sure money they were getting, but it seems like they would be getting a lot more than they were, figuring all the illegal activities they and others were doing in order to win.

It would make more sense to me if they profited t... [ More ]

Comment #10

RJOh — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:57:34 GMT

It's hard for me to believe that the average lottery player who understood how the game worked wasn't aware that someone willing to spend a large sum of money had a better chance of winning a second tier prize or was almost guaranteed to win one if they were willing to spend above a certain amount.

Comment #9

Astekblue — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 22:20:10 GMT

Amen To That

Comment #8

mcginnin56 — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 22:05:04 GMT

I grab three Mass Cash two Megabucks Doubler QP's every Friday when I cross into your state. I've had good luck on both, hit 4 out of 5 on Mass

Cash once, tons of 3 out of 5. Same with Megabucks Doubler. And these tickets still only cost $1 to play.

Comment #7

GYM RICE — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 22:02:57 GMT

This is where the FED's should step in and go through with a fine tooth comb what the lottery knew for years. Look at the bank accounts of all the employee's who worked for the lottery etc. Instead, their too busy looking for steroids in baseball...

Comment #6

eddessaknight — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 21:23:30 GMT

10/4 Ridge

All big money games of chance speculation, including the stock exchange, attract the attention of manipulators from outside inside with many who find the advantage edge - get away with it!!

EddessaKnight

Comment #5

maringoman — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:35:11 GMT

The only local lottery game worth playing for small time gamblers is Mass Cash (pick 5). $100,000 for picking 5 of 35 numbers is good odds. My numbers though have never showed up. Loyalty to lotto numbers can be an expensive exercise.

Comment #4

Stack47 — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:21:28 GMT

It's obvious lottery agents were involved ( Everything is very organized and runs smoothly, wrote Marino, who mentioned that the owners of both stores were part of the Michigan betting club.) and the officials knew that something was going on when a store averaging $10,000 in sales had over $600,000 in sales when the roll down started.

Especially when they knew exactly what was going on for years and even seemed to cooperate on not informing the public when a rolldown was happening.

That... [ More ]

Comment #3

Stack47 — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:23:16 GMT

Local media reported last summer that a few gamblers with an extraordinary knowledge of math and probability had found a quirk in Cash WinFall shortly after it was introduced in 2004, allowing them to make an almost guaranteed profit as long as they purchased enough tickets at the right time.

There are hundreds of posters on LP that believe they found quirks in almost every lottery game including scratch-offs. All the lotteries are keeping at least a 40% of there total ticket sales so while

Comment #2

rdgrnr — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 15:03:17 GMT

It seems very doubtful to me that no lottery officials were in on the take on this one.

Especially when they knew exactly what was going on for years and even seemed to cooperate on not informing the public when a rolldown was happening.

Too coincidental, too convenient.

Comment #1

mcginnin56 — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:54:33 GMT

Can't wait for the next Mass. exploitable game!!! All the lottery officials care about, are keeping their weekly sales of tickets in the black.

It's like a game of musical chairs, just wait a little time until some new lottery official comes along, with less than honorable scruples. Then history will

repeat itself all over again. The politics of greed and corruption will never change, just whoever happens to be in charge at the time.

Mass. Lottery knew about exploited game's flaws for years, IG says

Lottery Post — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:43:36 GMT

Massachusetts State Lottery officials knew for years that a small group of gambling syndicates had virtually taken over a game called Cash WinFall winning most of the prizes during high payoff periods but did nothing about it until the local media began investigating, according to state Inspector General Gregory W. Sullivan.

Sullivan's report details the way a handful of math and science wizards, including Massachusetts Institute of Technology undergraduates looking for an interesting school... [ More ]