IRS scammed with losing lottery tickets

Comment #32

RL-RANDOMLOGIC — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 12:09:52 GMT

Im NOT anti tax or anti government. On the Contrary, im pro Constitutional government.

I guess it depends on which government your referring to. I consider the current US

government anything but Constitutional. Bush said it and Obama is acting on it. The US

Constitution is just a piece of paper.

RL

Comment #31

justxploring — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 04:58:57 GMT

Well, enough about politics. I wish I won enough so I could deduct my losing tickets. And guess what? I won't need to buy any either, since I've got plenty in my shoebox

Comment #30

Krystalm — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:51:07 GMT

wow i can't believe this happened

Comment #29

Murgatroyd — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 00:15:19 GMT

You say:

You totally skip over the liability part and go straight to definitions.

I say:

What exactly is this liability part you refer to? It looks to me like 1(a)-(d) imposes a tax on the taxable income of every individual, and everything beyond that is a matter of definitions (specifically, the definition of taxable income ).

Comment #28

Lottery Playa — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 14:40:24 GMT

You totally skip over the liability part and go straight to definitions. And i know why, because you are not familiar with any of those sections. Understandable, since you spout the same non-sense that most do. And your over simplification is NOT in the law. Trust me, if it were that easy, it would have been written that way. The entire Income Tax is a maze of obfuscation, word smithing and the like. And it's done that way on purpose. I can draw no other conclusion based on how it was written.... [ More ]

Comment #27

Murgatroyd — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 13:58:42 GMT

You say:

Now tell me how you become a taxpayer. And it's not just making money that makes someone a taxpayer for purposes of the income tax

I say:

That definition has nothing to do with making someone a taxpayer. It's about defining what the word taxpayer means for purposes of this law. You become a taxpayer if a tax is imposed on you anywhere in the law. The main reason for this broad, seemingly circular definition is so that if they amend the law to impose a tax on some new type of en... [ More ]

Comment #26

mikeintexas — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 06:14:03 GMT

veganlife125: Also the federal government could charge oil companies so much for every acre that they are drilling in American Oceans. Obviously those acres would be at a higher rate.

Uh, they already do. Just a few weeks ago, the govt. held a lease sale for a huge tract in the Gulf of Mexico and received well over half a billion dollars. There are stipulations/time limits on the leases, they're not held in perpetuity.

While I do agree that the fed. govt. owns way too much property... [ More ]

Comment #25

Lottery Playa — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 05:49:54 GMT

Let's look at what you just said....

You say:

7701(a)(14): The term taxpayer means any person subject to any internal revenue tax

This means that if any tax defined in the tax code applies to you, everything the law says using the word taxpayer applies to you.

I say:

That's correct. Now tell me how you become a taxpayer. And it's not just making money that makes someone a taxpayer for purposes of the income tax

You say:

63 defines taxable income as gross income minus... [ More ]

Comment #24

Murgatroyd — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 02:57:43 GMT

Lottery Playa:

7701(a)(14): The term taxpayer means any person subject to any internal revenue tax

This means that if any tax defined in the tax code applies to you, everything the law says using the word taxpayer applies to you.

63 defines taxable income as gross income minus deductions.

61 defines gross income as generally referring to all income from whatever source derived, including (but not limited to) a long list of sources. Subchapter B, Part III provides a list... [ More ]

Comment #23

Dead_Aim — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 02:29:25 GMT

First of all that wouldn't bother me in the slightest. The IRS is a hornets nest of fraud and I would have absolutely np with anything he did to save a dime or two. It's not like he made money, he could only offset his winnings.

Now with all that said, I have no clue what he did with them. I don't know if he ever had a personal win big enough to need offsetting. He sure didn't tell us if he did, and we sure didn't as a group. For all I know he just used them for second chance drawings. And be... [ More ]

Comment #22

Lottery Playa — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 01:39:27 GMT

I tell you why there would be a lot of opposition. Because the US Constitution requires all Direct Taxes be Apportioned among the several States. If one understands apportionment of direct taxes, then one realizes how labor intensive and troublesome to lay such a tax is for the Federal Govt. The Founders where well aware of the abuse of government and have protected against that invasion with the hurdle of the Constitutional requirement that ALL direct taxes must be apportioned.

And, for the

Comment #21

Lottery Playa — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 01:32:40 GMT

and with all that you just said, you might as well said nothing. I've read the entire case. And those are NOT the assumptions of Dave Champion. If you happened to have read the book Income Tax: Shattering the Myths, you would have known that.

The Government forcing the author telling people not to rely on the content of the book is nothing more than pure political non-sense and theater. I thought you would have realized that as obvious.

Imagine the guy who robs your house tells you not to... [ More ]

Comment #20

Lottery Playa — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 01:15:37 GMT

Coin Toss,

I appreciate your response and I get your point. Realistically, we have this tax, called Income Tax. We have the law which says A and the US Govt doing B or trying it's darnedest to convince the US public that the income tax is a tax upon any Citizen who makes money, period. Now the problem with their assumption is it's NEVER backed up with what the statutes say or they take a general section and mis-represent it's purpose, the Definition of Gross Income comes to mind.

It... [ More ]

Comment #19

Murgatroyd — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 00:42:28 GMT

What it really boils down to is that regardless of any theoretical merit to his claims, in practice the courts have consistently rejected pretty much everything he says, and anyone using his arguments to justify not paying taxes is in for a world of hurt when the IRS notices.

I quote from the summary judgement against him:

Champion s theories concerning the Government s taxing authority are wrong.

And from the notice he is now required by court order to include in every copy... [ More ]

Comment #18

veganlife125 — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 00:12:45 GMT

Another reason we need tax reform. We should go to a 100% property tax paid per acre you own. No way to cheat that. The government knows about every acre of land in America. If you own an acre of land with a house on it by April 15th you owe 4 checks. One to the city, state, county, and the feds. Simple. Nobody could cheat that. Obviously there would be battles to rate property commercial, residential, farm land, or oil land but you couldn't cheat it.

Eliminate deductions, sales taxes, income... [ More ]

Comment #17

Coin Toss — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 00:12:14 GMT

Lottery Playa,

As far as a lottery jackpot goes, good luck collecting the check if you play the no-tax angle ( government you , not just you but anybody).

I know, really silly when other countries don't tax winners anything, but that's other countries.

Have you ever read a book called The April Game by a Diogenes ? Very interesting read. He is a former IRS agent who wrote a book about tax avoidance cases that made him furious- one case was someone living in a mansion filing ass... [ More ]

Comment #16

savagegoose — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 00:08:13 GMT

ahh free markets will find a way

Comment #15

Enigmas — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 21:16:01 GMT

Well the IRS has been defrauding the people since 1913 so...

Comment #14

KY Floyd — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 19:24:01 GMT

If you won would you be curious what everybody's share of the prize is? It works exactly the same way with the losing tickets. Everybody has an interest that's proportional to their interest in the pool.

If you knew the person was planning on using the tickets to commit tax fraud you're at least an accomplice, and possibly a co-conspirator.

Comment #13

Lottery Playa — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 19:23:04 GMT

Know all about it.

Interesting case, because the IRS agents lied about their names and would not reveal their actual identities. Unless of course you believe the US Govt is somehow in the truth telling business.

And Judge Percy Anderson held that to be OK by the way, protecting the Agent's actual identities, which is absolute non-sense. And that's not all either....

The case was about the List of Dave Champion's clients. Because Dave himself was never prosecuted for NOT FILING A TAX RE... [ More ]

Comment #12

Murgatroyd — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 18:56:36 GMT

Before acting on what Dave Champion has written about taxes, I suggest reading up on United States v. David A. Champion.

Comment #11

bigbuckswede — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 16:27:17 GMT

This another good example to allow registered gambling, online or offline with player cards like here in Sweden. When I want to play in store or online I need to validate my bets in some way. I cannot transfer my made bets to another person.

Comment #10

Lottery Playa — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 15:22:19 GMT

Coin Toss,

I know all about Irwin Schiff. Irwin was a fan of filing ZERO income tax returns.

If you have no income tax liability, you have NO REASON to be touching a 1040 form.

Since Irwin was a fan of commiting PERJURY on a Federal Tax form, he got what he got.

On another note, they do treat Irwin, who was NOT violent worse than a rapist. I find that quite odd. Well then, again, it is the US Govt, so I don't find it quite odd.

Best if you actually research what I said inst... [ More ]

Comment #9

Coin Toss — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 15:10:19 GMT

Lottery Playa,

Find out what you can about Irwin Schiff.

The difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion? About 15 to 20 years.

Comment #8

Seattlejohn — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 07:15:08 GMT

You know, if it's a huge amount of money being deducted the IRS really wants to prove they're not deductible, all they need do is determine the time they were bought, make sure it's possible they were bought by one person only (ie - no buying of a bunch of tickets at 8:01am in Detroit, and another bunch at 8:05am in Los Angeles), and then subpoena the video of the places where the tickets were bought, to compare the visual of who bought the tickets to make sure they match (ie - comparing a 7 foo... [ More ]

Comment #7

Lottery Playa — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 03:23:31 GMT

Here's a suggestion. Everyone needs to LEARN that the income tax is an Excise tax and contrary to popular (the earth is flat understanding) income tax has nothing to do with the average guy. A better name for Income Tax would be International Tax on Income (in relation to the source and owner of the monies being transacted)

There's a book I have called Income Tax: Shattering the Myths by Dave Champion. Probably the best book I've ever read on the topic of what, whom, why and how the income t... [ More ]

Comment #6

VenomV12 — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 03:03:01 GMT

There's a guy here in town that plays $3,000 to $4,000 a day on 3 digit and 4 digit lottery tickets. I was always curious how much he wins, how much he loses and how much he is able to write-off? He has to get flagged every year when he files his taxes.

Comment #5

Dead_Aim — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 02:51:30 GMT

I am curious how they would treat a lottery pool? I run one for years. It was nothing for us as a group to have over $100 dollars per drawing (2 drawings a week) when the prizes were high.

At the end of the year, I would have a substantial amount of losing tickets. One year someone asked me if they could have them. I told them yes, they were as much his as anyone else in the group. I only kept them if anyone wanted to check through them again for whatever reason. At the end of the year I gene... [ More ]

Comment #4

Stack47 — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 02:33:38 GMT

Most people don't understand to use the value of the losing tickets, they must give up the standard deductions. And depending on how much they are claiming as losses, the IRS could question where they got the money to buy those tickets.

Comment #3

Dead_Aim — Tue, 07 Apr 2015 00:57:08 GMT

If anyone is doing any scamming, it is the IRS!

Isn't it about time they make another (star trek) instructional video for 60k like they did before?

Or maybe they are just to busy harassing the tea party to do that anymore.

The less you give them, the less they have to piss away on conferences that cost us 49 million dollars in just 3 years.

More power to the ticket sellers in my book.

Comment #2

haymaker — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 22:08:39 GMT

And those race track tix better not have shoeprints on em LOL

Comment #1

noise-gate — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 21:27:05 GMT

Uncle Sam may be Old- but his not Stupid. Just ask Wesley Snipes, Nick Cage, Al Capone.That Old Man is an Enforcer.

IRS scammed with losing lottery tickets

Lottery Post — Mon, 06 Apr 2015 20:54:53 GMT

Here's one way to dodge the taxman buy thousands of losing lottery tickets.

It's true. Gamblers have concocted a scheme to repurpose the dud ducats to offset their winnings. A winner can go online and get $5,000 worth of losing lottery tickets to cover their $5,000 in gambling winnings. The lottery tickets serve as a sort of security blanket if the auditor comes calling.

Ads captured on Craigslist and eBay from Florida to California hawk the tickets so the potential lotto buyer can defraud... [ More ]