Lottery petition attacks computerized drawings

Comment #46

CASH Only — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:52:52 GMT

Interesting opinion.

Comment #45

Lee — Mon, 27 Sep 2004 01:37:07 GMT

Hello ToddI don't know they say lottery ball games are rigged, the computerized draws are rigged. I think I favor the computer draws even if they may be manipulated JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser for you to post a message in the forum!easier. The Texas Pick 3 ball draws are becoming discourging for a lot of players they are manipulated by rotation or changing the the set of balls and machines to the max . I hope there sales goes down. I'm playing less!! Thanks for the... [ More ]

Comment #44

CASH Only — Tue, 07 Sep 2004 20:27:39 GMT

Don't forget the Megaplier petition too! www.megaplier.com

Comment #43

Clipper — Sat, 04 Sep 2004 00:29:24 GMT

We have Cash Option in Texas

Comment #42

CASH Only — Fri, 03 Sep 2004 20:00:48 GMT

If only lottery players made such a fuss over annuity-only prizes.

Comment #41

MADDOG10 — Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:47:17 GMT

I'VE BEEN AN AVID LOTTERY PLAYER FOR MANY YEARS, AND I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY ANY STATE RUN LOTTERY WOULD WANT TO COMPRIMIZE THEIR OWN INTEGRITY AS WELL AS RUNNING THE RISK OF LOSING REVENUE FROM THEIR OWN PLAYERS, FOR THE SAKE OF CUTTING COST!!!! I GUESS NO ONE HAS ENOUGH INTESTINAL FORTITUDE TO STAND UP AND SAY WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE NOT ONLY ARE THEY RISKING BEING HACKED INTO, BUT THEY'RE RISKING CUTTING STATE RUN PROGRAMS, WHICH ARE PROBABLY FUNDED IN PART BY THE LOTTERY! DON'T... [ More ]

Comment #40

fja — Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:06:32 GMT

I will sign the petition, and continue to play till the lottery goes to computers then I will bow out of the game. Regardless of the arguments, my opinion is that you can't call it a random lottery game , when it is a played with a programmable computer . and as far as hacking goes, even the military and the government have had problems with there hack proof security systems in the past......and I dont see the lottery spending more money on securing the devices than them....

Comment #39

pegleg — Tue, 31 Aug 2004 01:53:09 GMT

Doc

Comment #38

billycanwin — Tue, 31 Aug 2004 01:12:20 GMT

Are the balls directed by computer NOW????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????Those strange coincidental numbers that make you go Hmmmmm.... may not be so coincidental.....Food for thought...

Comment #37

Todd — Tue, 31 Aug 2004 01:08:27 GMT

paintbrush,Systematic corruption of even smaller prize games like Pick 3 can result in millions of dollars (collectively) being taken from player's pockets in order to go to the government. Jim has some great empirical evidence of this from Indiana.

Comment #36

paintbrush — Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:55:18 GMT

Helloo cash only Am leaving for new york saturday,Where's the best pizza in manhattan?? Thanks chris

Comment #35

paintbrush — Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:39:59 GMT

hello jim695 If you know this from fact not he said she said.I see your pointon the big ticket games with millions in the pot I don't have a problemwith ball only.At 41 million to 1 odds am not going to win anyway,I havebeen playing the same set of pick 6 numbers for almost 20 years..if they comethey come..I am more concerned with the smaller games pick 5 and 3jackpot are smaller and less likely to be comprised.I have been workingon this method for 6 years now and it only works since the... [ More ]

Comment #34

CASH Only — Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:29:10 GMT

Games like Quick Draw would have to be eliminated, or the lottery would have to constantly reload the ball machine.

Comment #33

jim695 — Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:13:06 GMT

Even if an RNG is used in a totally honest game, the mere fact that the machine can be compromised in so many different, undetectable and unauditable ways is unacceptable. The Hoosier Lottery, according to their CPA/CISA, downloaded their RNG from Lottery.com. Our Lottery Director, John Ross, told one of our state representatives that their own programmers wrote the code. One of them is obviously lying but, either way, how can we play with any degree of confidence, knowing that only one of the... [ More ]

Comment #32

paintbrush — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:23:36 GMT

Doc The lottery acts as a broker,they get a set amount of moneyfrom every dollar bet.Calif takes not more than 16 percent if you lookat section 8880.4.Doesn't matter if there is 1 or 1000 winners to themthey still get there cut and thats all.there's sections that state they can'tuse the money for anything else but education and expenses.So what good is it for themto know what numbers people are playing or not.They have 3 STAND ALONEcomputers not hooked up to any data lines in a safe. Und... [ More ]

Comment #31

DoctorEw220 — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:39:37 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by paintbrush on August 30, 2004can't believe todd you started this petition balls have no patternsor bais were as the computer does produce patterns..like here in calif3 and 1 are sticking together..also 0 and 7 this is heavy in our!! favoror course the pick 5 and 6 games are 570,000 to 41 million in oneodds ..we'll never going to hit those games..but are daily gameswe're some of us make good money are going to lose!!!!when youbring back complete random drawings...Is th... [ More ]

Comment #30

Todd — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:49:32 GMT

What a nice thought. ( stupid move )I guess you're not going to sign the petition.

Comment #29

paintbrush — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:03:11 GMT

can't believe todd you started this petition balls have no patternsor bais were as the computer does produce patterns..like here in calif3 and 1 are sticking together..also 0 and 7 this is heavy in our!! favoror course the pick 5 and 6 games are 570,000 to 41 million in oneodds ..we'll never going to hit those games..but are daily gameswe're some of us make good money are going to lose!!!!when youbring back complete random drawings...Is this lottery games justa hobby for you????if you were playi... [ More ]

Comment #28

Todd — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:59:23 GMT

four4me,For regular PCs, that's really not possible, because modern modems rely on your computer's CPU and memory to do anything. If the power's off, there will be no problems.Even if they could get in somehow, the lack of power would make the hard drive and memory inaccessible, so they could see or do nothing.You don't need to unplug your modem anymore.The only exception I know of is that some servers have a special card inside them that is connected to the network, and allows someone to logon... [ More ]

Comment #27

four4me — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:38:28 GMT

I don't know if this is possible or not. A few years ago I had a friend tell me this. He said a hacker who has the right codes can hack into a computer even when the power is off not disconnected from the power cord just turned off. He said that they connect through the modem and turn the computer on steal what information their after and shut the computer down. I never hear anyone else tell me this little tidbit but I suppose it's possible. Who knows. Ever since he told me that I usually unplug... [ More ]

Comment #26

Todd — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:23:52 GMT

bobby623,Yes, you're right. That's one of a thousand different scenarios where the computers could be compromised. And that's the point. Why even go through this mess, introducing all kinds of risk and ill feelings, when the cost savings is insignificant or non-existant

Comment #25

bobby623 — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:20:19 GMT

I've read all the comments and have not found a single comment referring to wireless internet. If someone can sit the coliseum in Italy and check their email with a wireless computer, what would stop a lottery official from accessing a remote lottery computer and doing all sorts of mischief to increase lottery profits?Just a thought.

Comment #24

tg636 — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:04:48 GMT

This is similar to electronic voting machines fraud. Theoretically both lotteries and electronic voting can be done in a solid way to prdvent fraud, hacking and other unfair criminal activities, but in both cases the stakes are so high for those wanting power and money that you have to assume if there is a flaw or weakness or programmer's backdoor that can be exploited to tip the scales it will be done and the public will be screwed. Those who program the computers really don't have a strong in... [ More ]

Comment #23

Clipper — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 06:13:56 GMT

Tood = I havnt read the petition so my thinking of inside job came naturally as I didnt see any reason that a Lottery Commision would/should have their computer hooked up in such a way that it could be hacked from outside sources. One would think that such people would consider the possibilities of such if the computer wasnt isolated and take precautions to prdvent such occurences which I feel is a very reasonable assumption.I believe I did say that I absolutely feel the people have a right t... [ More ]

Comment #22

Todd — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 02:44:41 GMT

You sound upset. Let's not keep going in this negative direction. Let's rally around the need to eliminate computerized drawings in every state, and prdvent your state from going to computerized drawings (if it has not already).Sign the petition

Comment #21

smd173 — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 02:41:01 GMT

I am the one who put together all the wording that appears on this site. Not Jim. If you have some criticisms of the wording, please direct them at me.I never had a problem with the wording of what you wrote Todd. So I don't even know why you brought that up.I happen to agree with Jim that you should not attack something as weak , unless you state good reasons for doing so.It was my OPINION that your argument for banning RNG's based on hacking was weak. My reason WAS stated. I said because I... [ More ]

Comment #20

dragon — Mon, 30 Aug 2004 00:05:20 GMT

Regarding hacking or meddling:I don't think the problem is that somebody will get in over the Internet and mess with the way the computer selects numbers. However, I could today get a job with the company that makes the computers, and I could make sure that on any future date, years out, say December 28, 2009, a specific set of numbers is drawn. Then I have 5 years to find myself a trusted buddy who will play those numbers for me, and we're off to the Bahamas.It's not easy to do that, but given... [ More ]

Comment #19

Todd — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:09:06 GMT

smd173,I am the one who put together all the wording that appears on this site. Not Jim. If you have some criticisms of the wording, please direct them at me.I happen to agree with Jim that you should not attack something as weak , unless you state good reasons for doing so.This is a very important topic, and I would ask that if you're going to throw out blanket statements, that you PM me with them instead of muddying the waters.

Comment #18

smd173 — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:53:08 GMT

Jim,I don't want an apology from you.I just want you to realize that you could have made your point to me in a much more proactive way. All you had to do was say, smd, I did the research and found out x, y, and z in Indiana and you are off base with your comments. And that would have made your point. Instead, you launch into a tirade like I personally attacked you. That was never my intention. I'm sure your petition will not be crippled by me not signing it. However, I would have signed it. S... [ More ]

Comment #17

four4me — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:20:47 GMT

The vast majority of number players probably doesn't know the difference about ball machines or RNG's that make the games happen. More likely it's the diehard player that knows the rng's are a scam. You have to persuade the casual players to sign the petition as well. And your absolutely right about contacting the governor or the attorney general it is these people who ask their various departments heads to find cost cutting ways of saving the state money. When one states goes RNG's then it may... [ More ]

Comment #16

jim695 — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 20:47:19 GMT

smd173:You don't appreciate my sarcasm, but you should appreciate it, because the rules dictate that I cannot use my Navy vocabulary on this forum to give you the dressing down you had coming. If you didn't want, or didn't expect me to defend myself, you had no business climbing into the ring. Ignorance has a price, my friend, and you just made a down payment. You're a Top 100 Poster, and to calim that you were not aware of what LosingJeff and I have presented on this forum over the past fourtee... [ More ]

Comment #15

jim695 — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 20:00:17 GMT

BobP makes an excellent point.The problem with the Dollar Diet is that you will never be able to get enough people to pull together to make a difference. While the majority might believe in the cause, or at least its principles, they would rather let others put forth the actual effort to change things. A good example of this would be the dismal voter turnout we see in every election in this country. The non-voters complain about the state of the nation as much, or more, than the voters do, and... [ More ]

Comment #14

ayenowitall — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 19:56:45 GMT

I hope that we'll all be able to reconcile our differences in order to pull together on this very important campaign. Let's try to look at the big picture. This issue is far more important than any debate on board. We need unity.

Comment #13

Todd — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 19:47:40 GMT

smd183 Clipper,Before taking things so lightly, you should really try to understand that with billions of dollars at stake, people are apt to do things that they wouldn't otherwise. You should listen to what BobP said: hacking is very feasible. And if you think the LOTTERY is renowned for their superior IT expertise, you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm sure they're more than capable of handling what programming tasks are needed, but they are not going to be industry leaders in technology... [ More ]

Comment #12

smd173 — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 19:14:30 GMT

Jim,Your sarcastic reply is not appreciated and I can guarantee you that if you take that kind of attitude with you as you try to get the RNG abolished in Indiana, you'll have the reverse effect.I was not aware of what evidence you and LosingJeff had accumlated. So all you had to do was present it, or direct me to where you had presented it previously.I live in PA which uses the RNG for their Mid Day drawings. Because of your wonderful attitude, I will not sign your petition or help you in any w... [ More ]

Comment #11

Rick G — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 18:58:32 GMT

Bob,Excellent point....write to your lottery directors and tell them you will no longer play the game if it becomes computerized.I will be doing this as soon as I get off L.P. and would seriously urge others to follow this sage advice. When the lottery director's job is at stake, state lottery revenues will be the ultimate determinators whether that director keeps their job and whether the state continues to get 50% of the revenues we are contributing to.Thanks Bob. I hope everyone on these fo... [ More ]

Comment #10

BobP — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 18:41:17 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by psykomo on August 29, 2004Why not ask everyone to go on a $$Dollar Diet$$? If.... players elect to get lean maby some of the states will get the message. Players can put money aside for the games at some later date if the states, agree with players. Courts will take years and money to get anywhere near a solution. Otherwise, the states and lottery management have the right to present and change the games as they see fit. REMEMBER, it's YOH honey, Do whah you WANNA... [ More ]

Comment #9

psykomo — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:59:09 GMT

Why not ask everyone to go on a $$Dollar Diet$$? If.... players elect to get lean maby some of the states will get the message. Players can put money aside for the games at some later date if the states, agree with players. Courts will take years and money to get anywhere near a solution. Otherwise, the states and lottery management have the right to present and change the games as they see fit. REMEMBER, it's YOH honey, Do whah you WANNA DO!GOOD fat LUCK...................................... [ More ]

Comment #8

jim695 — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:43:25 GMT

A computer can be hacked into and the program can be changed to produce any sequence of numbers that the hacker desires. If the hacker is clever enough they may be able to cover their tracks for some time, in the meantime taking the lottery -- and all of the other players -- for an expensive ride.Smd173 wrote:I don't see why any state lottery would have the RNG hooked up to any kind of network that would put it at risk for being hacked. So this is a weak argument.The argument is weak because yo... [ More ]

Comment #7

BobP — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:07:41 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by smd173 on August 29, 2004 A computer can be hacked into and the program can be changed to produce any sequence of numbers that the hacker desires. If the hacker is clever enough they may be able to cover their tracks for some time, in the meantime taking the lottery -- and all of the other players -- for an expensive ride.I don't see why any state lottery would have the RNG hooked up to any kind of network that would put it at risk for being hacked. So this is a wea... [ More ]

Comment #6

DoctorEw220 — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:50:05 GMT

there's a thread that i started that has all of the states that use RNGs for their drawings.

Comment #5

hosni — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:47:05 GMT

Does anyone have a list of the computer drawing States? Here in California, the Daily game (Mid Eve) and Fantasy-5 uses computers for their numbers, but CASL+ still uses balls. I think LA was the first State to use computers. From what I understand, PA uses a computer for Midday draw, and MO has gone to computers. Any other States

Comment #4

Clipper — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:38:04 GMT

I have to agree with smd on the hacking argument because I cant fathom any lottery commission having the computer that generates numbers hooked up to the internet. Any hacking would have to come from an employee.....or.... inside job from somebody not authorized to use the lottery computer.I do feel the public should be allowed to have a public viewing of the numbers when they are drawn though although I havent found computerized drawings having any impact on the Pick 3 game which I trac... [ More ]

Comment #3

smd173 — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:53:22 GMT

A computer can be hacked into and the program can be changed to produce any sequence of numbers that the hacker desires. If the hacker is clever enough they may be able to cover their tracks for some time, in the meantime taking the lottery -- and all of the other players -- for an expensive ride.I don't see why any state lottery would have the RNG hooked up to any kind of network that would put it at risk for being hacked. So this is a weak argument. Some or all of the savings by moving to co... [ More ]

Comment #2

four4me — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:02:25 GMT

Well, Jim I'm glad that you are doing this. Like I said I believe this is the only way to get the ball rolling. Also you might want to get some friends to print up some petition papers to pass around and get personalized signatures also. maybe you can find some s who will help out in the different states that use this system also to get additional signatures. The more signatures you get will help in your efforts to get the decision to switch back to ball operated games.

Comment #1

Lotteryfool — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:41:13 GMT

Keep the balls bouncing

Lottery petition attacks computerized drawings

Lottery Post — Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:24:48 GMT

A popular lottery Internet Web site is opposing a controversial industry trend head-on, in an attempt to eliminate computer-generated drawings from all US lottery games.Among the 41 states and the District of Columbia offering lottery games to the public, there are approximately 175 different lottery games. In almost every one of those games the player selects three or more numbers, and those numbers are compared against numbers randomly selected by the state lottery to determine who is the win... [ More ]