Testing wheel 9,6,5,5

Reply #30

lottoarchitect — Sun, 02 Jan 2005 10:34:45 GMT

So? It doesn't mean anything really. Just replace the numbers23->1, 24->2 etc and you have a new wheel with indexes scattered in the whole range (the wheel remains the same). Still this does not mean anything as a lexicographical order is just an integer representation of a combination.

Reply #29

Hyperdimension — Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:27:36 GMT

Hi, Apapogeas, please read the next article of Ion Saliu http://www.saliu.com/bbs/messages/772.html In the article Saliu used the lexicographic analysis to study the wrwheel (49,6,3,6)=163, and also a wheel index that offers symmetry, to test the performance of both wheels..Regards

Reply #28

lottoarchitect — Fri, 31 Dec 2004 07:39:16 GMT

Hyperdimension, the lexicograph analysis does not offer any information of wheels performance. Each combination assigned a unique number (the Lex) in an ordered sequence.1 2 3 4 5 6 -> 11 2 3 4 5 7 -> 2 etc.

Reply #27

Hyperdimension — Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:33:56 GMT

Hi, The result of the UWR analysis (LottoDesignerXL by Nick Koutras) is next:LD(11,6,5,6)=19-1353 JADE Lottery wheelLD(11,6,5,6)=19-1166 Wheel Generator wheelLow UWR better quality of wheel.The result of Lexicograph analysis (using Saliu and Koutras software) is next:Jade Lotteryn1n2n3n4n5n6 Lex1234710141236793812456858124571064124581168135681116813569111701357911176136781018314578920715671011237234791128223569102952468101135124891011357257810113703478910409356910114234678911451Wheel Generato... [ More ]

Reply #26

lottoarchitect — Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:47:21 GMT

Yes Datenda, this is a small wheel and I used it to understand what JADE wheeler does. This goes worse with CoverMaster with larger wheels though. All my tests so far show a reduction of tickets required and also better hit ratios improved coverage using my program. Just try to generate open cover wheels with CM at about 95% or above and see the differences. My favourite category is 5if6.

Reply #25

Datenda — Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:34:54 GMT

Covermaster can easily create the second wheel.Cheers,Datenda

Reply #24

lottoarchitect — Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:38:11 GMT

I'll do it for this time only, as the wheels I generate intended for use in Lotto Architect and offer optimized characteristics. Do your analysis and post the results. Wheels displayed C(6,11,5,6)=19 (open-cover)JADE Lottery wheel01 02 03 04 07 1001 02 03 06 07 0901 02 04 05 06 0801 02 04 05 07 1001 02 04 05 08 1101 03 05 06 08 1101 03 05 06 09 1101 03 05 07 09 1101 03 06 07 08 1001 04 05 07 08 0901 05 06 07 10 1102 03 04 07 09 1102 03 05 06 09 1002 04 06 08 10 1102 04 08 09 10 1102 05 07 08 10... [ More ]

Reply #23

Hyperdimension — Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:07:15 GMT

Hi, Apapogeas, could you please show the tickets of the 2 wheels C(6,11,5,6)=19 , I want to do a fast analysis with LottodesignerXL (Nick Koutras) and see the UWR (quality of the wheel) of both wheels.Regards

Reply #22

lottoarchitect — Thu, 30 Dec 2004 05:34:00 GMT

JADELottery, it is good to have several approaches to wheel designs. I'd like to ask you what your program tries to improve. I have analysed some wheels generated by your program and I have to say, the coverage in general is low. Lower coverage results in some better hit categories but at the same time, we increase the risk of not hitting as well. I assume your program does not take into account the coverage matter at all. I have generated two versions of the same wheel C(6,11,5,6)=19 (open-cove... [ More ]

Reply #21

Hyperdimension — Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:10:42 GMT

Hi,JADELottery I'm iusing version 1.5.34, thank you for the tip , now I will analyze the JADE LSG wheels..Regards

Reply #20

JADELottery — Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:36:00 GMT

Hyperdimension,What version JADE LSG are you working with? The most current version is 1.5.34; it has a copy funtion for wheels generated and there is a pasted entry method under the Build menu that allows you to paste a system into JADE LSG. Keep in mind that you need to insert your numbers into the wheel to perform a copy of the system. You can copy the base wheel by inserting the numbers using the quick pick button and not changing the largest ball size, then do an insert sequence with the so... [ More ]

Reply #19

Hyperdimension — Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:25:52 GMT

Hi, JADELottery, thank you for the explanation of how Jade Lottery works, I like many properties of the JADE LSG, but the only option that JADE LSG doesn't have is the copy paste function needed for the study of the generated wheels..If you could add this option to your JADE LSG then the study of the wheels will be more interesting..Regards

Reply #18

JADELottery — Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:04:32 GMT

Hyperdimension and apagogeas,JADE LSG works a little differently than CM. CM is a very good wheel generator; great for coverage and optimzation. However, JADE LSG works on a different generation process that deals with probabilty distribution of draw occurrence and symmertic draw occurrence. Also, I tried to make JADE LSG versatile enough to allow a person using JADE LSG to fine tune the lines in a wheel. With CM you are fairly limited to what is produced, however, this should not take away from... [ More ]

Reply #17

lottoarchitect — Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:29:47 GMT

No I don't know it but I've downloaded and tested it a bit. It gives me the impression of linear wheel building which is the fastest possible way to build a wheel but unfortunately it does not provide good results in terms of tickets needed to make a close cover wheel (however it gives equal results for open-cover wheels up to 80% usually). The coverage offered illustrates that too. I don't know if he does that but the speed of the system suggests me this approach. However, I can't understand wh... [ More ]

Reply #16

Hyperdimension — Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:07:45 GMT

Hi, Apapogeas, do you use the Jade Lottery System generator (freeware)?, I,m testing some wheels and comparing with CM and some WRW, the results of the Jade Wheels are interesting, the wheels are created automatically and you see the performance instantly, but you can't optimize as Covermaster, the optimization method of the Jade software is to do the wheel symmetric adding more lines (sometimes 100% more), The Jade system seems to be a good option for wheeling (but it needs the copy paste funct... [ More ]

Reply #15

lottoarchitect — Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:46:36 GMT

I confused too, I thought you asked about the WR chances to be reduced more. Well, in CM, it will produce quite more lines (I don't remember how much it was, I've done this run a long time ago). In general, CM can produce WR results for small ticket wheels and many cases of xifx (this condition is mathematically more easy to construct). In overall, CM cannot be close to WR for larger wheels (e.g. 50-100+ tickets, depends on the case constructed) and particurarly when xify where x<y we have an in... [ More ]

Reply #14

RJOh — Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:09:58 GMT

I asked the question because I was interested in knowing how close CM could come to matching a large WR wheel if allowed to complete its optimizing process.RJOhP.S. I confused the WR 648 wheel (161 lines) with the WR 649 wheel (163 lines

Reply #13

lottoarchitect — Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:05:52 GMT

Current WR for 3if6/49 wheel is 163 lines. The bottom line could be around there. Small differences if we ever break this bound. I can't say really. What's the point of this question anyway

Reply #12

RJOh — Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:56:34 GMT

Apagogeas,What are the smallest number of lines you think it would list to match 3 in a 649 lottery?RJOh

Reply #11

lottoarchitect — Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:47:31 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by RJOh on December 7, 2004 When I've used CM on small wheels of 15 numbers or less, it has alway matched any wheel that I've found. When I tried it on larger wheels, I've never been willing to wait for it to optimize the wheel. One time I waited four hours before shutting it down. Maybe one day when I have 48hrs or so, I will try and see if it can match the WR 649 wheel which gurantees a match 3 in 161 lines.To save you from the time needed for that, it does not match W... [ More ]

Reply #10

RJOh — Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:42:48 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by Datenda on December 7, 2004For the smaller wheels, Covermaster quite often equals world records. For most of the medium and all of the large wheels, the records are not equalled...............DatendaWhen I've used CM on small wheels of 15 numbers or less, it has alway matched any wheel that I've found. When I tried it on larger wheels, I've never been willing to wait for it to optimize the wheel. One time I waited four hours before shutting it down. Maybe one day wh... [ More ]

Reply #9

lottoarchitect — Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:05:23 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by ExpertLotto on December 7, 2004is it a big deal to play a wheel with 33 lines instead of 30? Quite many times I have found wheels that are smaller and offer equal or even better coverage. So what's the point to spend more and gain the same (or less sometimes)? Maybe, the difference is small here but we have only 9 numbers to wheel and the C(6,9,5,5) is a construction hard to improve more. For other categories like C(6,15,4,5), the tickets generated can have a great... [ More ]

Reply #8

ExpertLotto — Tue, 07 Dec 2004 11:19:48 GMT

is it a big deal to play a wheel with 33 lines instead of 30

Reply #7

Datenda — Tue, 07 Dec 2004 07:02:04 GMT

Cya,For the smaller wheels, Covermaster quite often equals world records. For most of the medium and all of the large wheels, the records are not equalled. I think the guys who have the world records for the larger wheels have their own software, which they will never part with.Cheers,Datenda

Reply #6

Hyperdimension — Tue, 07 Dec 2004 02:26:46 GMT

Hi, Detenda, I analyzed your optimized wheel.. The wheel has the same properties as the world record wheel, also it has the same number distribution (20 of each number) and same average wins.. This means Covermaster could generate world record wheels.. What do you think?Cya

Reply #5

Datenda — Mon, 06 Dec 2004 14:58:16 GMT

When making this wheel with Covermaster, I first managed to achieve 32 lines, then I clicked on Reset and pressed Start again - This time I achieved 31 lines. The process was repeated again and I achieved 30 lines. Here are the results:1 4 5 6 7 91 2 3 4 8 91 3 4 6 8 91 3 5 6 8 92 3 5 6 7 91 3 4 6 7 82 3 4 5 7 82 4 5 7 8 93 4 5 6 7 91 2 3 6 7 92 4 5 6 8 91 2 4 5 6 82 4 5 6 7 81 3 5 6 7 82 3 4 5 6 81 2 3 4 5 61 2 3 4 5 91 2 4 6 7 91 2 4 5 7 81 3 4 7 8 91 2 3 4 5 72 3 4 6 7 91 2 5 6 7 91 2 6 7 8 9... [ More ]

Reply #4

RJOh — Sat, 04 Dec 2004 00:54:54 GMT

It has been my experience that CoverMaster will match or come within one line of any W.R. wheel I've ever seen unless you are trying to get better coverage of the lower prizes and it only takes seconds if you're dealing with less the 15 numbers.RJOh

Reply #3

Hyperdimension — Sat, 04 Dec 2004 00:45:27 GMT

Hi, Apagogeas and RJOh thank you for your comments, Well I tested the optimized wheel RJOh shows above and get the next results:Number distribution:W.R.Wheel Covermaster Optimized W. 1 20 1 21 2 20 2 20 3 20 3 22 4 20 4 20 5 20 5 22 6 20 6 21 7 20 7 20 8 20 8 20 9 20 9

Reply #2

RJOh — Fri, 03 Dec 2004 14:27:52 GMT

I used CoverMaster with the optimzer on as it generated the 9,6,5,5 wheel and it produce the following 31 lines. You can check the reports for the break downs.1 2 3 5 6 71 3 5 6 7 81 3 4 5 7 92 3 4 6 7 81 2 3 7 8 92 3 4 5 7 82 3 4 7 8 91 2 3 4 7 82 3 4 5 6 91 3 4 6 8 92 3 5 6 7 92 3 5 6 8 93 5 6 7 8 91 2 6 7 8 92 4 5 7 8 91 3 4 5 8 93 4 5 6 7 91 3 5 6 7 91 4 6 7 8 91 2 3 4 5 91 2 3 5 6 82 4 5 6 7 81 4 5 6 8 91 2 4 6 8 91 2 4 5 7 81 2 4 6 7 91 2 3 4 5 61 2 5 7 8 91 3 4 5 6 71 2 3 5 6 93 4 5 6 8

Reply #1

lottoarchitect — Fri, 03 Dec 2004 13:28:27 GMT

You cannot evaluate which wheel is better that way.A rule of thumb suggests that we try to minimize our costs (reduce total tickets) and retain high hit ratios. Obviously both wheels will offer 100% hit on 5if5 condition but what are the % rates for higher divisions? We expect a 34 ticket wheel will offer a bit higher hit rates but at the same time we increase our overall cost. 99% of the time, this analogy is worse compared to the world record wheel. However, a case that BobP suggests and shoul... [ More ]

Testing wheel 9,6,5,5

Hyperdimension — Fri, 03 Dec 2004 01:19:20 GMT

Comparing wheel 9, 6, 5, 5Both wheels match 5 out of 5 (100%) if 5 of the wheel's 9 numbers are correct. Number distribution W.R.Wheel Covermaster v0.55.2.0 1 20 1 25 2 20 2 25 3 20 3 22 4 20 4 24 5 20 5 22 6 20 6 21 7 20 7 22 8 20