can someone here post me an example of a fake RNG lottery drawing?

Reply #37

time*treat — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 03:32:50 GMT

To say that both types can be manipulated is true. But it is easier to hide with a non-physical system.

Understand, there is more than one type of manipulation.

Players lose. Low quantity of winners drawn. This is what people are concerned about, because it is much harder to detect than....Lottery loses. A specific group of players win by causing a certain set of numbers to fall, or appearing to have played whatever the winning set of numbers is.

The topic was about the first kind of

Reply #36

KY Floyd — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 05:15:07 GMT

The only ticket info that is available to the lottery is what's in their database. Just because a ticket is printed an hour after the drawing doesn't guarantee that it won't match the corresponding record in the datebase. The point is that the people who insist the RNG program could be manipulated have absolutely no way of knowing whether or not the results of a ball drawing have been manipulated. All it would take would be a massive conspiracy with several conspirators who all keep the secret a... [ More ]

Reply #35

time*treat — Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:16:40 GMT

Thanks jim bob. The age old question of who protects us from our protectors remains...

Reply #34

BobP — Sun, 29 Jul 2007 06:30:05 GMT

Here in Florida our city was using fake code enforcement fines to extort property owners into selling out to developers. I tried reporting this through the Attorney General's web site, no meaningful reply. I tried reporting this to my County Commissioner, she sent my mail to the city I was reporting. I tried bringing my evidence to the state's attorney for Sourth Florida and was told to report the problem to the local police, said if they refused to look into it, get back to them. I decided... [ More ]

Reply #33

JAP69 — Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:40:00 GMT

Did they rig the draw today.

The payout in the 3 and 4 game was up to par or a little over.

Makes you wonder if they rigged the quick pick printouts to match was was going to be drawn to make it look good.

They did not want to get a lot of flak for a lousy payout.

One other thing.

They say that there are no connections to any outside source to mess with the computers.

DUHHHHHH It is plugged into a wall outlet for electrical power.

Connect the outside computer to program in... [ More ]

Reply #32

KyMystikal — Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:55:46 GMT

RNG TN, as far as I'm concerned it RIP TN lottery.

Reply #31

Littleoldlady — Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:58:30 GMT

Very interesting thread

Reply #30

Littleoldlady — Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:58:16 GMT

Very interesting thread

Reply #29

time*treat — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:15:43 GMT

KY Floyd asked When somebody comes forard to claim a $50 million MM or PB jackpot how do oyu know the ticket wasn't printed after the drawing?

When a ticket is bought (I'll use PB as example), several numbers are printed on it (not just your 'bets'), plus a bar code. These numbers represent the store location, time purchased and original bet numbers amount, etc. Also on the back of the ticket is another number (large red number string) that is the section of the roll of paper from which t... [ More ]

Reply #28

Guru101 — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 18:32:25 GMT

I just wanted to point it out because some people seem to be making consiracy theories out of even the simplest method of trying to rig the lottery. Some people are thinking it's so easy to rig the lottery that just any lottery employee is allowed to walk into the room where the drawing computers are kept, access those computers themself, and leave the room without being detected at all. Although I'm not going to rule it out absolutely 100% because I don't work for the lottery and I don't know h... [ More ]

Reply #27

Todd — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:17:56 GMT

I don't think you should use my code as an example of how somebody would rig the drawing. It is merely a demonstration of how a blatant code change inside the computer is invisible to those who press the button to generate the fake results. The silly cartoon can make the balls bounce around on the screen, but it has nothing to do with the actual randomness of the program.

Obviously, someone going through the trouble of rigging a drawing is going to be writing some clever code that would sur... [ More ]

Reply #26

Guru101 — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:48:41 GMT

It is possible to affect a program's process of randomly choosing numbers. You don't need to even modify the process itself. If someone is able to get a copy of the lottery program to learn how it works, they could write an external program running in the background to monitor running all processes, and when the lottery program comes up, their program could patch certain parts of the lottery program's memory to somehow affect the process in which numbers are chosen. That's just one example. Howe... [ More ]

Reply #25

DoubleDown — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:37:22 GMT

Reminds me of the programmer that worked for the Nevada gaming commission. He wrote a program that would increase credits on a slot machine after a certain coin - in sequence was used.

Ironically, his job with the commission was to examine the RNG chips in slot machines to determine randomness and repair them when they were out of whack...

He did this to cheat the system and in fact he got away with it ( for a while ) using an accomplice. Greed got the best of him and the casinos caugh... [ More ]

Reply #24

KY Floyd — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:28:47 GMT

You're 100% right that the true process should be open to inspection. When you confidently watch the balls mixing in the machine how do you know that they're really the same size and weight, and that nobody has tampered with something in an effort to skew the likely outcome? When somebody comes forard to claim a $50 million MM or PB jackpot how do oyu know the ticket wasn't printed after the drawing? Is it possible to write a program that superficially resembles an RNG but can return a result... [ More ]

Reply #23

Guru101 — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:57:32 GMT

I completely agree with you. The people playing these games don't know what's going on inside the lottery. The public should be able to see the true process in which the numbers are chosen.

Reply #22

Amazing Grace — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:43:51 GMT

Sun, Dec 18, 2005KansasPick 35-0-9

Sat, Dec 17, 2005KansasPick 35-0-9

Fri, Dec 16, 2005KansasPick 35-0-9

Reply #21

time*treat — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:37:52 GMT

I think people would understand this issue better if it were phrased in things more familiar, like:

voting machines with no paper trail (message: trust us. We'll count the votes for you)those stupid commercials where the person paying *gasp* cash is made to feel bad because the cashier doesn't know how to have time to make proper change (message: trust this impatient idiot with your debit card)numerous people who have had their credit ruined because someone bought/stole their identifiers,... [ More ]

Reply #20

Todd — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:14:22 GMT

I've changed your program a little. Let's see if you catch the change.

// BOF

#include <iostream>

#include <iomanip>

#include <fstream>

#include <ctime>

using namespace std;

int Num1 = 0;

int Num2 = 0;

int Num3 = 0;

int Num4 = 0;

int Num5 = 0;

void PickNumbers();

void SortNumbers();

int main()

{

ofstream outFile( QuickPicks.txt , ios::app);

if(outFile.fail())

{

cerr << outFile error << endl;

exit(1);

}

int count = 0;

srand(time(0));

for... [ More ]

Reply #19

KyMystikal — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:19:25 GMT

If they're gonna go through the trouble of trying to make it look like balls being drawn, why not use the real thing

Reply #18

jim695 — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 04:24:47 GMT

Sure, treat; I'd be happy to elaborate.

I think it was in 2004 when LosingJeff and I went to Indianapolis to give our evidence file to the FBI. The meeting got off to a bad start when they refused to let us see an agent, and told us to go home and contact our attorney general. We told them we weren't leaving until we spoke with an agent. They threatened us with arrest if we didn't leave immediately. Then, they had us escorted to the lobby, where we were warned not to come back. I'm the typ... [ More ]

Reply #17

LOTTOMIKE — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:22:05 GMT

just watched that minnesota drawing,thanks for the link.i can't believe the public would be gullible enough to fall for that.

Reply #16

Guru101 — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:21:53 GMT

This is a very basic Pick 5/36 C++ program:

// BOF

#include <iostream>

#include <iomanip>

#include <fstream>

#include <ctime>

using namespace std;

int Num1 = 0;

int Num2 = 0;

int Num3 = 0;

int Num4 = 0;

int Num5 = 0;

void PickNumbers();

void SortNumbers();

int main()

{

ofstream outFile( QuickPicks.txt , ios::app);

if(outFile.fail())

{

cerr << outFile error << endl;

exit(1);

}

int count = 0;

srand(time(0));

for(;;)

{

cout << How many Quick Pi... [ More ]

Reply #15

lottobrain — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:53:41 GMT

Todd, Delaware has a similar sick animated drawing with floating balls in the machines. I have visited the drawings on several occasions. My last trip there about 3 months ago, I suggested to them that the actual drawing was the auditor selecting the numbers by pushing the button on the RNG computer and that was what should be made into a video for anyone to log onto their site and view. Also that there should be some kind of oraganized method in doing the RNG drawing, and not a variety of b... [ More ]

Reply #14

LOTTOMIKE — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:17:19 GMT

psykomo be careful because those computerized jaws are getting awful close to the georgia state line.if it can happen in tennessee it could very well spread.i look for kentucky or some other southern state to be next....

Reply #13

psykomo — Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:03:31 GMT

The Lottery Director commission board have

caught on to the FACT that it does not matter which>>>>>>>>

accounting or security firm THEY use to produce the RNG draws

to VERIFY how HONEST (or dishonest) their DRAWS may BE ?????

NO BODY can prove a darn<< thing???????????????????????

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

ain't that a sham

scheme and a REAL>>>>>MONEY MAKING MACHINE $$$$$$$

RNG<RNG<RNG

viva>viva>VIVA

no ID no ID viva

LOL.......sucker... [ More ]

Reply #12

psykomo — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:41:21 GMT

EVER ????? SEEN ?????

UFO

Reply #11

Uncle Jim — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:18:02 GMT

I no longer involve myself in anything having to do with reforming the Hoosier Lottery. It's pointless. So instead I simply refuse to play any Hoosier Lottery games. I still play Powerball in Indiana because I don't think their shennagins reach into Powerball. But anything else (IMHO) is simply a donation to the state's Graft and Corruption Fund.

The Hooseir Lottery's official explanation of why they don't broadcast drawings (as given to me by Esther Q. Schneider) is that it costs too m... [ More ]

Reply #10

dld1961 — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:13:10 GMT

Ever seen a virtual dealer at any casinos? Same theory more or less. DLD

Reply #9

Todd — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:03:14 GMT

No, no, no. There have been several computerized mishaps. You should run some searches on the news forum for stories about computerized drawings. You will find many examples.

The problems are real. Computerized drawings are not just as good as the ball machines .

Reply #8

time*treat — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:53:32 GMT

Could you elaborate on this? How can they threaten you for someone else's activity

Reply #7

KY Floyd — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:46:53 GMT

So far, it would seem the answer is no. Maybe that's because, at least in theory, RNG's are just as good as the ball machines.

The only mishap I can remember was a few years ago (somewhere near Wisconsin or Minnesota, I think), when faulty hardware resulted in the same number being repeated for 3 days. I'm sure there have been a few other issues, but for the most part people are simply afraid of problems that exist in their own minds rather than reality.

Reply #6

jim695 — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:12:39 GMT

Indiana did the same thing. In fact, the Hoosier Lottery spent so much money on their animation program, most players didn't know about the RNG for at least two years after they began using it! Their public announcement about the new drawing method was buried on their web site, so the public had no opportunity to react to the RNG idea. They no longer air live drawings.

Soon after LosingJeff and I met with Hoosier Lottery officials, Kevin Leininger wrote his first article about our invest... [ More ]

Reply #5

Todd — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:09:24 GMT

Or Grumpy, Sleepy and Bashful.

Reply #4

DoubleDown — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:00:32 GMT

That is sickening.

They might as well use Woody Woodpecker.

I suppose the accounting firm listed at the bottom of the cartoon is supposed to make the players feel better about it ?

Might as well use the accounting firm of Dewey Cheatham and Howe.

Reply #3

Raven62 — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:51:26 GMT

It's kind of of interesting that they show a Simulation of a Mechanical Ball Machine

Reply #2

Todd — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:37:56 GMT

Actually, this is quite a good question. You will be sickened by this, but you need to see it.

Here is yesterday's Minnesota drawing:

http://www.mnlottery.com/drawshow/tue256wm.html

(It takes a minute to get started, just be patient.)

Welcome to the world of computerized drawings, where a cartoon gives you the winning numbers.

Reply #1

Raven62 — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:50:27 GMT

Fake: A fraud or sham; not genuine; to pretend or feign!

Random: Lack of definite aim or intention; without plan or order; haphazardly!

Number: One of the set of positive integers; a quantity or place in a sequence!

Generator: To produce; beget; bring into being; originate by some process

can someone here post me an example of a fake RNG lottery drawing?

LOTTOMIKE — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:11:44 GMT

can someone here post me an example of a fake RNG lottery drawing?

i need to see the nonsense that tennessee is fixing to pull.