How to Prove Your Lottery IS Fixed?

Reply #49

CurtisC — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 05:51:01 GMT

Speculating on truth: casting aspersions upon the veracity of someone or group who may have provided sufficient reason and cause for doubt.

Without accuracy, truth is meaningless - unless ill-gotten gains derived thru half-truth compensates situational ethics sufficiently... sufficiently enuff that accuracy is a stone in the shoe only for those who still own a piece of conscience.

A moral person has a conscience, and acts upon it.

An immoral person has a conscience and acts on it, selec... [ More ]

Reply #48

four4me — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 01:59:24 GMT

Sprry bout that ---They tape 3 shows a day 18 contestants go on stage.

Reply #47

four4me — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 17:56:29 GMT

I don't want to burst your bubble but you were entered into a game that somewhere either on the ticket, their website, or at the stores that sold the tickets. Said if you were chosen as a finalist that you had to fill out a questionnaire, that you had to be present for the final drawing, that your image or likeness would be represented and that you would be a participant in the final drawings goings on.

In other words all of you that showed up and completed the necessary forms would be a part... [ More ]

Reply #46

zolie57 — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:04:48 GMT

I feel that myself and 76 others were the unfortunate and unwilling victims of this computerized lottery spoken of here. This is they way things appeared to happen to me at he 500 million dollar Grand Finale held in Atlanta Aug 30.

We were 77 winners of a second chance to win 10 million dollars in the Georgia 500 million dollar Grande Finale. The questionable behavior began when a few days before this Grand Finale Event was to take place the Ga. Lottery sent questionaires to all the contestan... [ More ]

Reply #45

CrySis — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:30:58 GMT

I am more inclined to suspect the instant lotteries of being manipulated as opposed to the lottery drawings. Still, even with the regular lottery drawings, you know there is a statistical mathemetician somewhere who is going to figure out some formulaic strategy to get the machine to perform in a certain way.

But back to those instant scratch off lottery tickets. I think those are much more susceptible to human interference. Since at least one person at the top of the distribution chain know... [ More ]

Reply #44

four4me — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 07:16:04 GMT

Some how i new you'd go there next.

All the pick 3 numbers in Maryland have came out straight and boxed many ways for the evening draws/ There are about 6 or 7 numbers that haven't came out straight for the midday draw yet. When i first started tracking the midday no hitters i kept that list in my wallet and when the timing looked right i played a few of them for midday and won.

Each year over the last few years there are a group of pick 3 numbers that come out many different ways, using... [ More ]

Reply #43

pacattack05 — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 05:28:28 GMT

I'm just wondering how you'd react if you somehow obtained inside information of a pretest and saw that a pretest yielded a JP win consisting of the numbers you've been playing for 20 years, but it doesen't count......

Oh well....

Would love to be a fly on that wall.

Reply #42

CurtisC — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 04:52:31 GMT

Yes, thank you Jim, Greg... everyone. Obviously, it will be awhile before I know as much as I think I do. Excellent, informative threads/posts.

Reply #41

four4me — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 03:35:18 GMT

Thanks for stopping by jim695

Yea it's pretty easy to jack computerized drawings and it's a crying shame what they are doing to everyone in Indiana.

Maybe a lawyer from out of state who has license to practice law in Indiana could help.

Reply #40

Greg — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 00:55:25 GMT

Hi Jim, thanks for getting this thread back on its original track from my original post here, and that is not an attack on the other types of posters here!

And thank you for having done all that research. We know that if the pushers of the computerized lottery tell a lie often enough, it becomes truth (when it is still actually lies) in the minds of those touting its supposed cost-effective features.

We been lied to long enough, so ENOUGH!

A player of a computerized lottery willingly b... [ More ]

Reply #39

jim695 — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 00:12:23 GMT

This post is NOT directed at Guru101, nor at any other members. Guru's statement is included here because it makes a valid point, and the comments below are intended to address the topic being discussed.

I could re-hash everything LosingJeff and I have posted on this subject in multiple threads, but I'm not going to do that. I'm reading the same, tired old arguments from people who simply refuse to believe that a state lottery can be rigged to produce a pre-determined outcome. But the lotter... [ More ]

Reply #38

Guru101 — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:42:02 GMT

Sorry bud. It doesn't work that way. It must be proven that wrong doing has occurred by the ones claiming it has, not the other way around.

Reply #37

Surge — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:09:08 GMT

I just read in a post somewhere that computerized is cheaper. Anything for the lottery to save a buck.

Reply #36

four4me — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:22:29 GMT

With or without pre test and security measures as long as theres a chance someone might tamper with the balls they will continue to preform the tests. No matter what there is always someone who thinks he can outwit security measures.

If they roll the equipment out and it fails to function properly because they didn't test the balls and machines before the drawing. Many people will cry the game is rigged. They will want to know why the lottery didn't take steps to insure that the machines and... [ More ]

Reply #35

CurtisC — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:27:38 GMT

Sorry. Forgot to put in: Duplicate balls drawn would get set aside... until one came up not previously selected.

Naw... thinking twice, it's too clumbsy - a lame idea.

It's got me into trouble before, taking the protagonist view that THEY WOULDN'T DARE rig the game. But I also know, human nature being what it is, gotta keep your eyes open.

Take that phrase in my earlier post, the THEORETICAL threshold. I don't have a clue how they put that one together.

Say the theoretical threshold... [ More ]

Reply #34

CurtisC — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 06:48:18 GMT

As an Alternative to the Dreaded Pretest

ForeExample: on a 5/55 1/42 lotto (PowerBall).

Each (1-5) Whiteball would have one drum five Whiteball drums, total turning six (1-55) ballsets in each drum; and the Powerball (I guess) would have one drum with six (1-42) ballsets. So in drum one, six ballsets; drum two, six ballsets; etc

With such configuration, it would seem any real and/or perceived need for pretesting is irrelevant Would not the large quantities of matching balls/ballsets s... [ More ]

Reply #33

four4me — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 05:16:52 GMT

Pac i have nothing against you. I've been playing the lottery before they made it to the state level here in Maryland in 1976. I played with the bookmakers before that.

I used to be a non conformist fought them and society tooth and nail from every aspect that they came at me with. Then one day i woke up and realized if i play by the rules then i just might get ahead in life and not have this continuous battle with them whomever them are. In fact by playing by the rules i found that they... [ More ]

Reply #32

pacattack05 — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 04:43:45 GMT

I ain't writin' nothin' to no ones...

The powers that be, will have their ways and means anyways, no matter what....lol

If you can live with a scam, that's fine.

Reply #31

four4me — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 04:35:09 GMT

Well all i can say to that PAC is when you shake off the cobwebs on Tuesday mass mail all the various state lottery's and file a complaint.

It's a standard industry practice.

All i can say is i hope they don't tell you to dial 1 800 who gives a

Reply #30

pacattack05 — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 03:26:14 GMT

If there is so much damn security, why worry about doing pretests? Just because one incidenct in PA?

So because 2 people got caught in an isolated incident, let's totally screw up the whole lottery for the rest of the people in every state forever.

Dumb....there is another reason. They purposely created that problem in PA so they could manipulate the numbers from that point on. Just like 9-11, 2001.....They created a problem in order to create a police state, and protect us from the Terror... [ More ]

Reply #29

four4me — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 04:47:00 GMT

nobody knows when their gonna buy the farm dude.

A doctor i know orthopedic surgeon was in his hum v with his wife and kids, got crushed by a tractor trailer. killed everybody.

People who work for the lottery are average everyday citizens cant even play the games and for the most part could care less about the people that do.

All the equipment is locked up there are several people who have the key to the vault. security personnel and cameras everywhere. Still it's common practice to do... [ More ]

Reply #28

pacattack05 — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 04:15:13 GMT

If the official was an 18 year old punk who had tatoos and a nose ring, I could see the high risk, but most officials are mature and civil. They'll most likely have no incidents.

I've never heard of rowdy officials who like to mountain climb or go crab fishing in the Bering straits....lol

Reply #27

pacattack05 — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 04:02:40 GMT

come on PAC now if only one person had an entrance code and he/she was in a terrible accident should they suspend the drawings until he/she got out of the hospital

What are the odds of this person in charge becoming incapacitated? Slim to none.

I'd like to see a list of officials from the past who were mowed down by trucks on the highway....lol

Reply #26

four4me — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 03:57:05 GMT

PAC said

If they want to make sure there is no tampering, why don't they have the machines in a big vault? Only one person has the code, and that's it !

In Maryland everything is locked up. They have electronic locks on the door and only personnel with a key card can enter the area.

come on PAC now if only one person had an entrance code and he/she was in a terrible accident should they suspend the drawings until he/she got out of the hospital.

Whatever their reason for having pre te... [ More ]

Reply #25

pacattack05 — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 02:58:41 GMT

If they want to make sure there is no tampering, why don't they have the machines in a big vault? Only one person has the code, and that's it !

It's a scam.

Someone said earlier in this post, that the lottery didn't need to fix it to make money, they make plenty already. You'd be surprised when the number crunchers or better know as bean counters are brown nosing their superiors by squeezing as much money from the public as possible. When the think tanks sit down at a meeting, they have no... [ More ]

Reply #24

KY Floyd — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:59:07 GMT

Ask the lottery about 1, 2, and 3. I don't know what the exact numbers are, but since you're posting you must have a computer. That and a software program are all they need for computerized drawings. My machine was a moderatley high end machine when I got it and it cost a hair over $1000 about 2 years ago. Since the demands of generating random numbers isn't getting any higher there's no reason a $1000 machine shouldn't last for years. You can't even come close to buying one set of balls for tha... [ More ]

Reply #23

BaristaExpress — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:46:26 GMT

And you shouldn't buy it! Here is something from a lottery that does the test more than anyone that I can find that does do the test before the official ball drawing....

Lotto Texas Pre-test Results

A pre-test is an unofficial drawing that tests the machine and the ball set used for a Lotto Texas drawing. Pre-tests ensure that the drawing machine is working well and that balls are drawn in a random way.

The Texas Lottery performs at least six pre-tests before every Lotto Texas draw... [ More ]

Reply #22

four4me — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:00:20 GMT

whatever........... i was on the phone with the people about this very thing today concerning the numbers 099 being drawn in a midday drawing two days in a row.

For the reason i stated in the above post it has been done this way for a long time and is a standard practice in many states.

We may not like the fact that they do pre tests but as long as there's a remote possibility that tampering might have / may have taken place since the last draw was preformed. They will continue this practi... [ More ]

Reply #21

pacattack05 — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:43:37 GMT

Doesen't matter whether it was by construct or deceptive means, it still disrupts the actual flow of the game.

I'd rather chance the remote possibility of tampering,than fouling the whole thing up.

The so called security process is just a guise.

Reply #20

four4me — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:35:47 GMT

Pre test are done as part of the security process x amount of pretests are done then the actual drawing then additional test to confirm that all things were working properly and that the same numbers weren't drawn over and over in order. And that no tampering took place.

It is done for the integrity of the game. These pre test are recorded usually by cam recorder for the auditors as well.

Reply #19

dvdiva — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:34:33 GMT

The biggest problem would be scratch tickets. The most common problem would be selling tickets after the jackpot has been won or being very slow to publish that the winning ticket(s) have been sold. Even in WA state tickets are sold for games where the advertised jackpot has already been won.

Reply #18

pacattack05 — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:32:21 GMT

So are you saying that if a ball is drawn first position during pretest, they throw it out...

Yes, It isn't used. It's just to see if the machine works, which makes no sense. As if by doing pretests, you're somehow thwarting a possiblility for the machine to break down during the next drawing....lol If the machine is gonna break, it'll break. Believe me...I worked on Navy airplanes and they broke down despite all the repairs....lol

or the effect of pretest has some a bearing on t... [ More ]

Reply #17

CurtisC — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:15:45 GMT

...Why do you think in some cases an overdue number in the first position in the p-3 or p-4 dosen't show for very long periods? That overdue number came out during a pretest or also in other pretests, and then here I sit scratching my head wondering why it's taking 2 months for the number 8 to come out in the first position....lol...

I don't know anything about pretests, only that they are done: So are you saying that if a ball is drawn first position during pretest, they throw it out... or... [ More ]

Reply #16

pacattack05 — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 03:11:12 GMT

The real culprit is the ball machine, not computer programs.

With all the pretests, rotating of the tubes, and rotation of sets of tubes, my belief is that in itself ruins any history of a particular tube, because we are not told what the results of the pretests, and the new rotation positions are.

I wish I had saved the article from the N.Y daily news, back when I was living there 10 years ago. There was an item written about the rotations in the N.Y. games. When the official in the news

Reply #15

time*treat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:29:41 GMT

Yeah, I think most lotteries do their 'fixing' via the payout ratios.

Thing is, without paper ballots... er... mechanical drawings, you can't know for sure that what is drawn has no relation to how heavily the non-winning numbers were bet.

Reply #14

CurtisC — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:32:31 GMT

Hi BobP: I took a look: good point... Then when results fail to run even, is there any other possible explaination - other than fraud

Reply #13

CurtisC — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:25:10 GMT

You have a valid point particularly in light of controversy surrounding the advent of computerized voting machines. There will always be good cause for questions.

My friend's wife said that the prevailing belief among the lottery gods is that software is better at random selection that mechanical methods and means that, if you look at data and statistics, software generated numbers flatten the field and make it more difficult for pencil necks to beat the system. I do not know how to prove or... [ More ]

Reply #12

time*treat — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:06:27 GMT

Define fixed .

Reply #11

Greg — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:59:07 GMT

Maybe everybody IS watching everyone, Curtis. But nobody watches what the computer programmer does since he/she is the only one or ones at the state who knows what the software is, its features , and what it is capable of.

I'm not cynical. I'm just prone to using reason to question the existence or so called necessity of software driven number selection.

If it's software driven, it's ultimately selected by a human being.

Just like the players here determine how they want their particula... [ More ]

Reply #10

Greg — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:55:38 GMT

That's a good point, Guru 101. If a lottery does not need to be fixed, why do they go computerized

Reply #9

Greg — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:54:56 GMT

Maybe you can enlighten me on several things, KY Floyd because these are things I do not know:

One, what are all the costs and the amounts of such in a drawing involving the balls as opposed to the computer? Weren't televised drawings the best way to assure ticket buyers or the public that the lotteries were run fairly and squarely?

Two, why not avoid TV advertising costs by making it able to be viewed on the internet if that happens to be such a huge cost?

Three, what percentage are t... [ More ]

Reply #8

BobP — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:24:08 GMT

I don't know if the game is rigged or not and I don't know if the game is computer drawn, but it does seem to me the Ontario Pick-3 does not appear to have the usual rate of boxed repeats you'd expect to find.

https://www.lotterypost.com/lottery-results-history.asp?i=245 p=1

BobP

Reply #7

CurtisC — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:58:01 GMT

You could be right about that: but for, my neighbor s son Sean who works in LV as a Slot maintenance tech: installs new machines, repairs, fixes, tests settings and calibrates software, all that.

The way I understand it just got off the phone with Sean s dad applicable States have gaming laws that require Slot payouts not fall below a regulated threshold percentage in Nevada it s 75% see Minimum Standards for Gaming Devices - Code 14.040 - gamingNV.gov.

Yes, machines can be rigged by the

Reply #6

Badger — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:13:09 GMT

Well said. Just because on any given day we don't get the numbers that a player thinksd should be drawn, doesn't mean that player was correct. That doesn't even happen in the ball drawn games.

If it were all that easy, the lotteries would have to close down because there would be so many winners.

Sometimes it seems that players tend to forget that lotteries exist not to greate winners by the truckload, but to make profit. No profit, no lottery.

Reply #5

LottoL — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:32:43 GMT

....just like casinos, it's not necessary to stack decks and load the wheel - the odds are already with 'em... just a matter of sittin' back, countin' profit dollars.

I was at the MGM casino in Las Vegas a few years back. I happened to be playing their

Cherries Jubilee $1 slot machines at about 1:45pm. (little did I know that they were

going to run a promotion at 2pm to promote their newly installed slot machines).

At this time no one but myself was playing these machines and th... [ More ]

Reply #4

CurtisC — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:37:16 GMT

I am new. The first thing I picked up on LP was a difference in terms: lotto and lottery... and I still get 'em mixed up.

The wife of a kid I grew up with just finished her career in a State lotto/lottery commission admin office. The State began with Power ball, then added P3 later on... I started playing P3 and HotLotto a short time ago and really don't have enough time-in-service to comment in length about fixed games, only opinion.

But in conversation with my old pal and his wife regard... [ More ]

Reply #3

Guru101 — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:20:09 GMT

A lottery doesn't need to be fixed. They already have way more money coming in than what is going back out in the form of payouts.

Reply #2

Coin Toss — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:28:14 GMT

Lotteries don't need to be fixed.

They don't even need the players that believe because they haven't won, it's fixed - but they sure make a lot of money off of them.

Reply #1

KY Floyd — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:51:46 GMT

Therefore, because no rational or valid reasons exist to replace theping pong ball process of selecting numbers, any computerized lotteryis not purely random.

Unlike some, the lotteries are smart enough to understand that saving money on the cost of drawings is a rational and valid reason to replace the more expensive process of drawing balls.

Obviously, the vendor demonstrates to the state how outcomes can be selected

Obviously. The vendor demonstrates to the state that the cost of

How to Prove Your Lottery IS Fixed?

Greg — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 04:30:13 GMT

Instead of trying to prove that your computerized lottery IS fixed, first try to prove it is NOT fixed!

The answer is simple: from what we know today, in 2008 (not 1988) about computers and software, there is no valid way to prove it is NOT fixed.

How do we arrive at this conclusion?

The purpose of software is to control outcomes through inputted and/or selected variables by who operates or controls or directs that software.

If computerized lottery software packages did not have the