Texas Lottery confirms that Quick Picks are not generated by "central computer"

Reply #44

Think — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 02:38:00 GMT

Nobody says you have to use the lottery terminals for your rng quick picks.

Find an RNG quick picker that you like and fill out the bet slips with those numbers.

Problem solved.

Reply #43

RJOh — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:58:24 GMT

Every lottery terminal prints tickets for all the games a state has including its multi-state games. In Ohio that covers more than 20 different games. With over 2000 terminals printing out tickets with 5-10 combinations for those games at the same time, do you really think one computer could communicate with them all in the time it takes to print a ticket

Reply #42

Todd — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:50:04 GMT

They are generated independently, that the whole point.

Frankly from what I can see, you will never be satisfied, and will never address any point that I have written.

Maybe you can enlighten us all on your source of information that the lottery sends daily firmware updates .

Do you even know what a firmware update is? Doesn't sound like it, and it doesn't sound like you understand how a lottery machine works.

Lack of understanding breeds uncertainty and doubt. I started this thread... [ More ]

Reply #41

pick4hawk — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:32:07 GMT

Is it very easy to create a pool of numbers least likely to occur?

Then to restrict the rng to derive sets of numbers from that pool.

Ask your self if it is feasible. If they have the opportunity or allowed it --would they use it?

Most states have added new games during the year. The terminals must be updated for the new games to print the tickets.

Wouldn't that be a clue, that the machine has to way handshaking or two way comunication.

I want the machine to have only one way c... [ More ]

Reply #40

pick4hawk — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:39:01 GMT

if the lottery has nothing to hide then they should release a schmatic and the truth of there update procedure. If the state is really on the up and up.

If the terminals are proven to be influenced by an outside daily frimware update-- why trust them.

I would like to see tickets generated totally indepentantly. No outside influence possible.

Honesty is the best policy. As I do not live in texas, I have not seen the inside or worked on their

equipment. All states are not the same. I

Reply #39

Todd — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:21:03 GMT

You obviously haven't read my posts.

I took great care to lay everything out fully, so that not only would the concepts be clear, but also the way I came to know about these things.

In more than one post I wrote about my knowledge of the lottery machines, and where it comes from.

If you read my posts, you would not be asking that question.

Someone who truly wants to learn about a subject will not skip around to the parts they believe and ignore what they disagree with; they will lear... [ More ]

Reply #38

KY Floyd — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:16:37 GMT

I once knew a guy who had worked at Publisher's Clearing House, and he was sure you couldn't win if you didn't order a magazne, because the first thing they do when entries come in is sort them into order and no-order piles. Um, sparky, do you suppose that would make it easier to process the orders?

If your friend isn't thoroughly famliar with the RNG code, what he knows is meaningless. Even if he's familiar with the code, what he thinks may not make any sense.

Still, for the sake of the a... [ More ]

Reply #37

Think — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:58:28 GMT

Knowing the guts of the terminals, has your friend ever won anything big on an ez pick?

Does your friend play ez picks

Reply #36

pick4hawk — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:45:17 GMT

okay believe whatever you wish. However if you new a friend who knows the guts of the terminals- who would you believe

Reply #35

Guru101 — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:25:52 GMT

Thank you Todd. I was too lazy to post the technical mumbo jumbo as my IT instructor calls it.

Reply #34

Todd — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:30:45 GMT

OK, this is getting a bit far-fetched.

At the very least, when someone uses a RNG, they use the computer's built-in system tick clock as the new RNG seed value before each use of the RNG.

The article I posted in the other thread stated that state lotteries use a much more dynamic and unpredictable seed value than that, however.

Frankly, the concept of the lottery using a RNG seed value to manipulate ticket combinations is not a viable theory, because it would not work. You are giving t... [ More ]

Reply #33

pick4hawk — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:35:27 GMT

who cares what the INITIAL seed is?

You see, if the initialization is not totally random--then how can you say all things are possible to occur upon output. The inital seed is very important and should be able to be anything betwwen zero and 1, or between whatever int limit.

yes there is a fine line between what is random and is not. Otherwise there would be no need to use statistical tests to prove randomness.

Simple rngs have very easy pattern --they are not using an LCG generator sor... [ More ]

Reply #32

Guru101 — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:33:02 GMT

Dude, who cares what the INITIAL seed is? The initial seed can be anything you want and the rng will create pretty good random numbers. The problem is when you use the same seed over and over again; and the only thing that's gonna do, is make the same numbers come up over and over again, so the clerk would probably stop selling tickets because they think the machine is messed up. Also, there is no fine line between what is truely random and what is not; only DEGREES of randomness. The most simpl... [ More ]

Reply #31

pick4hawk — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:08:58 GMT

in a word that still does not answer my question.

can the state influence the intial seed via firmware update. the terminals are connected to phone line .

can they set or stack the deck to choose poor numbers.

just because they might use time between different activititys like key strokes either binary or integer to set begining seed this does not make the rng truly random.

time only only goes forward.

Reply #30

Think — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 02:51:03 GMT

I posted this before but here it is again-

http://www.lottery.state.mn.us/qanda.html#18

Q: How are quick-pick tickets generated for games like Powerball? Is it in the local store terminal or a host computer? How many host computers are there?

A: The quick-pick algorithm resides in the store's terminal. Each time it is seeded with several randomizer keys based on time and previous terminal activity.

Reply #29

pick4hawk — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:35:24 GMT

I looked at the thread and it does not acknowledge whether the state has the capablity to control or influence initial seeds of their quick pick machine terminal. If they were totally indepenent rng they should use thermal noise to set initial seeds. Not timer or clock. Time register same seed if drawn at the exact same time and second of the day. Time only goes forward, it does not jump around to intialize a begining.

Reply #28

Todd — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:34:25 GMT

I posted about the seed value in the other thread:

https://www.lotterypost.com/thread/182652/1134225

Reply #27

Todd — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:34:01 GMT

Thank you, this is what I was trying to say. You said it much clearer than I.

Reply #26

pick4hawk — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 05:06:27 GMT

so they confirmed each terminal has a separate rng.

but do they control what seeds are allowed to be used to began their so called random rng routine?

every night the terminal machines go down between certain hours do they up date there firmware?

I dont believe the quick pick terminal uses a true random generator(binary). Maybe they can control initial seed via limits.

Reply #25

Dead_Aim — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 04:54:35 GMT

I realize that, but does the drawing computer have any wireless abilities or flash drive access? Do we know the answers to that?

Are the two computers even in the same building? Does anyone know the answer to that one? These are things to consider.

Reply #24

Guru101 — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 04:42:08 GMT

with the computer drawngames there is nothing to say within the 15 minute terminal shutdownand the actual drawing the central computer doesn't analyzes all thetickets bought for that particular drawing and produce a combo that wasnot purchased at all or has one of the lowest payouts available to bedrawn.

The central computer and the draw computer are not the same machine. The draw computer cannot analyze what has been sold.

Reply #23

Dead_Aim — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 03:28:36 GMT

I think I understand what LottoL is saying but it would be difficult with the ball drawn games.

Forget the RNG tickets being printed, they don't have to be manipulated in any way, but once they are purchased the info is sent to the central computer saying this combo was purchased in this place at this time. The lottery uses this for security reasons to protect themselves from someone making a fake ticket or saying they lost their ticket. The lottery can simply ask when did you buy the ticket,... [ More ]

Reply #22

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Reply #21

LottoL — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:58:04 GMT

I think I'm going to bail out of this discusion.

- BTW, I never did suggest that MM was run by the Texas Lottery.

Best Of Luck,

LottoL

Reply #20

Todd — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:07:34 GMT

The problem I am having with your statements is that you are being vague about where you believe there is manipulation.

When we are talking about rigging a drawing , that specifically refers to altering the lottery drawing machine -- or the balls that get drawn from it -- in order to make certain numbers come out.

Now, if you are saying that Texas is controlling the outcome, that is the only way I know to do that, because if the drawing in NOT rigged -- it is entirely random -- then ANY CO... [ More ]

Reply #19

LottoL — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:44:07 GMT

I guess that's one way of looking at it. But I don't think it's as simple as that.

Here's Why.

Since Texas joined MM (if I added correctly), there have been 44 jackpot winners:

2008 - 12 (partial year)

2007 - 12

2006 - 15

2005 - 05 (partial year)

If the system is programmed to allow say 12 - 15 jackpots a year, then thats all that will be won

and the lottery software on the central computing system may probably be programmed to

control that scenario.

My Example... [ More ]

Reply #18

Guru101 — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:15:43 GMT

If you pick some numbers, then decide not to play them, and they come out the winning numbers, then you didn't win because you didn't play. Had you played them, you would have won. It's as simple as that.

Reply #17

LottoL — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:21:04 GMT

I'm not saying that the drawings are rigged, all I'm

saying is that the outcome (or parts of the outcome)

can possibly be known/changed before the drawing

occurrs, which is the ultimate random generator.

I know people will say thats a rigged draw, but I don't

think so.

To give an example of my thinking, say you picked the

1 22 52 53 56-45 in the last MM draw. Would those

same numbers have been selected had you picked them?

My guess would be probably not. The selecte... [ More ]

Reply #16

rcbbuckeye — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:58:53 GMT

I can't speak about other states, but I do believe that Texas is one of the most open states when it comes to the lottery. The website has tons of info on it, as well as transcripts from the monthly meetings. Do they have occasional problems? Sure. Name me any government agency that doesn't.

The fact of the matter is that the lottery (at least in TX) is in existence to make money for public education, and they make that pretty clear. I just can't see the sense in lotteries rigging things beca... [ More ]

Reply #15

Guru101 — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:53:04 GMT

A case where a drawing has been EXPLICITLY rigged is not very likely to happen. I remember when the Hoosier Lotto got really high last year people kept saying The Hoosier Lottery makes it keep rolling over and The Hoosier Lottery rigs their drawings to pay out less . I'm going to say the same thing now as I did then; in order for anyone to guarantee either of those would happen, the computer used for the drawing would need to be PURPOSELY programmed to access a list of all the combinations alrea... [ More ]

Reply #14

Captain Lotto — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:30:52 GMT

Most state lotteries are state agencies with strict oversight. They are responsible to the elected officials and citizens of their state. Except a few states with quasi-corporate structures, they don't get to keep the profits they generate, and most don't even reward workers with bonuses for good performance, which is how the real business world works.

The only incentive would be to return more money to the state, which is hardly a good motivator to turn people into cheats. And to boot, awar... [ More ]

Reply #13

Todd — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:13:26 GMT

The lottery machines are most certainly programmable. If they weren't .... well, then they would not exist, because as I mentioned in the other thread, they are computers themselves.

See, the problem I have with this scenario is that your supposition is exactly why the Texas Lottery runs reports on the distribution of numbers generated as Quick Picks.

On one hand you're saying that the existence of such reports are bad, but on the other hand you're saying that you're concerned about the RN... [ More ]

Reply #12

Todd — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:03:46 GMT

No, I don't remember the Hoosier lotto. Can you refresh my memory

Reply #11

spy153 — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:07:39 GMT

This is what I was driving at. You nailed it LottoL!

I don't care about the Rng's. They are only a means to an end.

Ball drawings can be manipulated as well, too. Remember the Hoosier lotto? And I hate to be sinister here, but the world isn't exactly filled with saints these days.

I guess it just boils down to this, either you believe they are rigged or not. It's certainly possible. All things are possible. So I do. But I don't think they are going to pick who the winner is. I do think... [ More ]

Reply #10

LottoL — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:34:20 GMT

The question is: Are the lottery terminals programmable? I would imagine they are.

So if that's the case, I would imagine the vendor software group can send instructions

of any kind to any terminal anytime from the central computer with or without the

knowledge of retailers, lotto commissions, vendor depot personnel, etc. if they so choose.

Reply #9

Todd — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:18:04 GMT

As I stated in the other thread, I know my information from speaking with people who have built the GTECH lottery terminals. I know how they work.

The RNG in the machine is not connected to a central computer. A RNG a small piece of program code that is part of practically every programming language in existence. Even JavaScript in your web browser has a RNG built into it.

A RNG simply produces a fractional number between 0 and 1 (for example, 0.37625346499). To get a random lottery number... [ More ]

Reply #8

Todd — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:06:25 GMT

The greatest number of winners will always be where the greatest number of tickets are sold.

If 1000 tickets are sold in county A and 500 tickets are sold in county B , then county A should statistically have twice as many winners as county B .

If you see a rural area with as many winners as a downtown city, then you know something is strange, because they sell a ton more tickets in cities.

Reply #7

spy153 — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:35:10 GMT

I figured as much. I was just reading the other thread Todd was talking about. I hadn't read it before I posted. Guess I should have.

But some of my points are still valid.

Reply #6

Captain Lotto — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:33:08 GMT

They know where the winners are because G-Tech tracks every ticket that is sold. Once the winning combination is selected, they then check that against the list of tickets sold and can determine if there was a winner.

Reply #5

spy153 — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:09:08 GMT

You're not kidding when you say it is a short note. They couldn't give us any more detail and assurance than that? I know your goal was simplicity, here, but don't you think some of us are a little more curious than that?

I am one of the die-hard theorists who argue there is a central computer which is manipulating the numbers. I know they don't want everyone to know that....I'm not stupid. It's not something they are going to broadcast for the simple reason that people wouldn't want to play... [ More ]

Reply #4

Bagent — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:24:27 GMT

Thanks for this info Todd. I have always had a question about quick picks since that is mostly the tickets that I buy. If all the terminals have a RNG, why is it that when I track the winners on a map, it seems that only certain areas of the country have winners? Seeing the winners being geographically clustered makes me think that even RNGs have to been tied in with a central computer that is ruling where the winners are located. My area of the country has very few large or JP winners at all.

Reply #3

Todd — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 02:47:41 GMT

The other one you're trying to think of is GTECH, which I think is what Texas uses.

GTECH is the largest lottery equipment and services company in the world, and has the largest US market share.

In 2006, GTECH was bought by Lottomatica Group, an Italian company, but GTECH has maintained its corporate identity as well as its headquarters in Providence, R.I.

Reply #2

Shawn67 — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:27:38 GMT

Thanks for the information Todd. It's always good to have confirmation like that. I've already had this discussion with an Oklahoma lottery official, and was told that all of the terminals they use (Scientific Games) have individual random number generators. SGI administers the lottery in at least half of the states that have the lottery. There is one other major company that has terminals in the other states, the name of which escapes me, but I am sure their terminals are set up similarly or el... [ More ]

Reply #1

charmed7 — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:33:28 GMT

thanks for 411

Texas Lottery confirms that Quick Picks are not generated by "central computer"

Todd — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:13:48 GMT

There was another thread in which the subject of Quick Picks was being discussed, and that it was strongly asserted that a central computer generates the random ticket numbers.

The theory of a central computer generating the random numbers is an important element of critics' theories that the lottery controls the outcome of the games.

After all, if the Quick Picks (which account for some 70% of all sales) were not generated or manipulated by a central computer, then how in the world could... [ More ]