Proposed Buffett Rule and How It Would Apply to Some Lottery Winners Who Invest

Reply #122

haymaker — Mon, 09 Apr 2012 01:32:03 GMT

returned, did you go back to importchips, or will you wait for another day ?

I tried to talk to em, but i think he has convinced himself.

Reply #121

rdgrnr — Mon, 09 Apr 2012 01:25:16 GMT

I'm a Bud Man too, brother!

Salute

Reply #120

haymaker — Mon, 09 Apr 2012 01:20:25 GMT

yo ridge, importchips also made me want a drink, but i was a work when talking to him, so had to drink water.

got the bud now .

Reply #119

rdgrnr — Mon, 09 Apr 2012 01:02:37 GMT

Whoa, lotta ground to cover there so I should probably blog it.

But later, cuz importchips drove me to drink earlier. Heavily.

I agree with a lot of it though.

Though I have a major problem with Ron Paul thinking Iran having the bomb is nothing to be concerned about.

Reply #118

Boney526 — Sun, 08 Apr 2012 18:46:17 GMT

Non-interventionalism isn't necessarily Libertarian in nature, just that Ron Paul, the de Facto leader of the movement is a non-interventionalist, so the movements are associated.

Just ask Barry Goldwater.

But the Non-Interventionalist platform held by Paul has become so twisted to the point where Conservatives think he wants to do away with America's ability to defend themselves. No, he just wants declarations of war by CONGRESS (like the Constitution says) and a more defensive,... [ More ]

Reply #117

tntea — Sun, 08 Apr 2012 16:29:30 GMT

I am all for everyone paying their fair taxes. What gets my goat is knowing people who didn't work a lick in 2011. (Lived off welfare, food stamps, etc.) Then allowed another to claim their children to receive $9 grand in taxes.

The Fraud... just kills me.

When I get up every morning to go to work.. She lays in bed.

When I organize my day to get my work done, she plans what tv shows she will watch..

When I write my check to pay my taxes, she checks her box to see if she received them... [ More ]

Reply #116

rdgrnr — Sun, 08 Apr 2012 15:49:15 GMT

I am Libertarian in most of my beliefs.

Except that I believe in a defense strategy incorporating a military able to defend our interests worldwide with the capability to crush any and all opposition.

No nation building and no quarter. Overwhelm, crush and withdraw.

Reply #115

Boney526 — Sun, 08 Apr 2012 15:02:53 GMT

You sound like you should be a Libertarian.

Then again, Classical Liberalism is the only moral system of governance, while new age Progressive Liberalism is just statism.

What I like about Buffett's proposed rule (from what I heard) is that it is flattens out the tax rates. However, what I do not like at all about it is that it's flattening them UPWARDS for the top income earners. To me, the only moral income tax is no income tax. But for purposes of compromise, I'd compromis... [ More ]

Reply #114

jrosina — Sun, 08 Apr 2012 05:45:11 GMT

Yep! this is your rosie, lol...lol...

Reply #113

rdgrnr — Sun, 08 Apr 2012 04:52:01 GMT

Roger that, Rosie

Reply #112

jrosina — Wed, 14 Mar 2012 01:15:33 GMT

rd, The rich pay more taxes than the average worker, and thats a fact

leave things as they are

Reply #111

rdgrnr — Mon, 12 Mar 2012 22:43:25 GMT

Roger that, Kumo.

And hey, I say if we're gonna have a Buffett rule, let's not have a Warren Buffett rule.

Let's have a Jimmy Buffett Rule! Margaritas for everybody all the time!

Nibblin' on sponge cake

Watchin' the sun bake

All of those tourists covered with oil

Strummin' my six-string

On my front porch swing

Smell those shrimp; they're beginning to boil.

Wastin' away again in Margaritaville

Searching for my lost shaker of salt

Some people claim that the... [ More ]

Reply #110

GYM RICE — Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:35:04 GMT

A country of 300 million and counting with no safety nets? I don't know about anyone else, but no thank you...The middle class would get destroyed. You'd need a cop on every other street corner. It would be the wild wild west all over again with prisons being built in every city.

Reply #109

rdgrnr — Mon, 12 Mar 2012 18:34:24 GMT

You're welcome.

Reply #108

Kumo — Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:20:35 GMT

My apologies for the very late reply to my topic, a few things came up... Got my LP account banned for posting some links to funny youtube vids in my blog. Thank you Todd or to the person who restored it, I promise that it won't happen again.

I honestly think the Buffet Rule is a joke and more taxes is not the answer to solve our budget problems. We are already spending rediculous amounts of money on things that can be accomplished for far cheaper. The 1% already pay a huge sum of our taxe... [ More ]

Reply #107

gogidolim — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 01:08:40 GMT

Maybe I should have said the same thing. Those folks did give me a few things to think about, too.

Reply #106

mediabrat — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 00:30:52 GMT

Thank you all for your honest, thoughtful opinions. And thank you for not descending into the ugly partisan bickering that has plagued many of the other political threads.

I may or may not have more to add later. But for now, thank you. You have given me a few things to think about.

Reply #105

haymaker — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:56:18 GMT

well thanks, Piaceri, its great to be assoc. w/ that group,incl, you.

Reply #104

Piaceri — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:46:16 GMT

LOL, my fave posters with more common sense than all the liberals in DC combined... oh heck, thow in all the liberals on the west coast with the DC liberals and they still don't have more common sense than Ridge, Sully, CDanaT, and Haymaker...

Reply #103

haymaker — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:44:16 GMT

hay, barkeep, take that outta here,

Reply #102

CDanaT — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:41:06 GMT

Kudos to Sully, Ridge Hay........Great input folks... Now we have given our humble opinions based on personal knowledge and beliefs and facts...I do believe its time for anyone of us to win a jackpot..........God bless the USA and our troops

Reply #101

sully16 — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:32:30 GMT

So very true.

Big WTG, Ridge, CDanaT and Haymaker. Well said Gentlemen.

Reply #100

haymaker — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:29:44 GMT

Sully16,

thats priceless,

Abe Lincoln: we are the world's last best hope

translation:when we are done, the worlds done,

what other country cares about the rest of the world

Reply #99

rdgrnr — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:24:14 GMT

I agree, CD.

I wonder why Warren waited all this time (just before his dirt-nap) to want to give the government a lot more of his (and our) money?

Why didn't he want to give it away when he was younger and had all that ungodly fortune just sitting in vaults collecting dust?

Greed, that's why.

Greed motivated him then.

Guilt motivates him now.

Not our problem.

When I win the JP, I don't want to give Obama more of it to fritter away just cuz Buffet thought it would be a good i... [ More ]

Reply #98

gogidolim — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:20:02 GMT

Heck, I personally know so many dirt poor liberals out there

Reply #97

sully16 — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:11:21 GMT

Freedom isn't Free, The cost of losing our Freedom, devastating.

Reply #96

CDanaT — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:07:20 GMT

Media, it goes like this.The following is done IMHO...Coming from a law enforcement background all my life and a member of the lower-middle class. It goes to a belief in being self relient and responsible for ones actions. Having personal integrity with morals and understanding the true meaning of friendship. See, I was raised where your word is your bond and when you tell a neighbor or a friend that you will be there or help them do something then YOU SHOW UP DO IT ON TIME, giving it your best

Reply #95

rdgrnr — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:00:39 GMT

The United States is a Republic - but, how long do we have? About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: 'A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselve... [ More ]

Reply #94

rdgrnr — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 02:36:55 GMT

I'm guessing you're pretty young, mediabrat.

You've fallen into the trap. You took the bait.

We'll make all of our lives better and we'll make those guys over there pay for it!

No.

It's a classic lie and it just doesn't work.

It destroys.

Reply #93

rdgrnr — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 02:23:07 GMT

Excellently articulated.

Reply #92

sully16 — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 01:14:24 GMT

Media, you've been duped by the media, the richest men in this country who continue to get richer,

Warren Buffet, and Bill Gates are both Liberal Democrats, The amount of money you have, does not dictate a political party, Most Conservative Republicans are in fact small business owners.

Pick any CEO, Out of the wall street line up and chances are you'll find a liberal Democrat, pick any mega rich movie star, George Clooney, and friends and you will find they are in fact Liberal Democrats.... [ More ]

Reply #91

mediabrat — Mon, 05 Mar 2012 00:04:39 GMT

I honestly do not understand what motivates middle- and lower-class folks to become Republicans. You DO realize that none of us here are rich enough to matter to the GOP, right? Not a single Republican presidential candidate or governor or senator or congressman cares about you and me. The rank and file are merely cannon fodder meant to enrich the wealthy.

I highly doubt anyone here is rich enough to be affected by the Buffett Rule. Warren Buffett does NOT want to raise YOUR taxes. He DOES wa... [ More ]

Reply #90

rdgrnr — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:15:24 GMT

When we have smaller, de-centralized government and less taxes, it will be much easier for everybody to earn their fair share.

This nation wasn't founded on the concept of a huge federal bureaucracy telling us what to do in every aspect of our lives and demanding more and more taxes to spend foolishly on things like studies on how men in Zimbabwe wash their genitalia or why Chinese hookers drink so much.

The federal government is there to serve us and obey the Constitution which strictly l... [ More ]

Reply #89

time*treat — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:13:24 GMT

What's your source on the claim that Andrew Jackson was murdered

Reply #88

TheGameGrl — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:01:24 GMT

THe last line sums up the entire theory behind a socialist/commune society. Funny how one actually agrees with something when trying to refute the very concept.

True fact: Buffet is a natural leader for financials. Unlike Donald Trump who uses Bankruptcy to his advantage.

True fact: The Rich remain such because of the tax system.

Argue politics all you want...I for one tire of the ignorance spewed based solely on look what they did to us .

Picking the lesser of two evils to argue a p... [ More ]

Reply #87

THRIFTY — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 16:09:32 GMT

This country is more communist than Russia and China my friend. We do not own anything here. The Federal Reserve owns the world through debt.

President Andrew Jackson has been the only US president that was able to pay the national debt by printing his own money and distributing it to the central banks. Abraham Lincoln did the same thing to carry the civil war. They were both murdered by the money changers ( The federal Reserve ).

You can't bring change without offering everybody a f... [ More ]

Reply #86

rdgrnr — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 16:03:14 GMT

I'm all for change when it's for the better.

Obama's change is all for the worst. He doesn't know what the hell he's doing. He wants to follow Russia's lead? Uh... no thanks.

And he's gonna be gone in January anyway.

I just wish we could get Buffet to go away now.

Or maybe you could call him and let him know that he can give all the money he wants to the government without having a press conference about it or demanding that everybody else do what he wants to do.... [ More ]

Reply #85

THRIFTY — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 15:46:07 GMT

The USA President Barack Hussein Obama II and Warren Buffet want to change the US Tax Code to a Flat Tax Rate like Russia did.

A simpler, more streamlined tax code adopted in 2001 reduced the tax burden on people and dramatically increased state revenue.Russia has a flat tax rate of 13 percent. This ranks it as the country with the second most attractive personal tax system for single managers in the world after the United Arab Emirates.According to Bloomberg, Russia is considered well ahe... [ More ]

Reply #84

rdgrnr — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 15:30:49 GMT

Warren Buffet is really getting to be annoying. Who cares what he says or what he wants?

Somebody should hang a drool cup under his mouth and sit him in the corner.

He keeps whining that he wants to pay more taxes.

Who the hell is stopping him

Reply #83

THRIFTY — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 15:14:42 GMT

THE PROPOSED BUFFET RULE IS A CALL TO CHANGE THE CURRENT TAX CODE TO A FLAT TAX FOR EVERYBODY LIKE THEY DID IN RUSSIA.

A simpler, more streamlined tax code adopted in 2001 reduced the tax burden on people and dramatically increased state revenue.Russia has a flat tax rate of 13 percent. This ranks it as the country with the second most attractive personal tax system for single managers in the world after the United Arab Emirates.According to Bloomberg, Russia is considered well ahead of mo... [ More ]

Reply #82

Brcebrce — Sat, 03 Mar 2012 01:58:26 GMT

This thread got way off track for a while. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

Reply #81

Stack47 — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 03:27:51 GMT

I find it ironic that pay their fair share doesn't apply when members complain when PB and MM jackpots are won in states that contributed more to the jackpots.

https://www.lotterypost.com/thread/242934

Reply #80

Boney526 — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 22:13:51 GMT

I'd also like to point out that you probably know more about what some good investments are, I've done little (I've made like 4 predictions over my life, all turned out to be true, but they were mostly fairly obvious and I had no money to invest with anyway. Specifically that AIG would be bailed out, that Gold and Silver would go up long term, and two specific instances of what Silver would rise and fall to). I'd just like to share a little piece of math from learning to count cards -

Wh... [ More ]

Reply #79

Boney526 — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 03:36:51 GMT

Like I said, though, you can only figure these things after the fact. I'd also rather underestimate the EV of an investment than overestimate it, b/c when using the Kelly Criterion, betting under Kelly reduces Risk faster than it reduces expected bankroll growth. Betting over Kelly actually raises risk and lowers bankroll growth, (not to mention Risk or Ruin shoots way up), because the huge banroll fluctuations will end up making your bankroll far too inconsistent.

Most good investments... [ More ]

Reply #78

Babel — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 21:39:31 GMT

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on what a good investment is because to me 1-5% is chump change. Anything under 3.5% or so means your worth is going down due to inflation. The kind of people that would be impacted by the Buffett Rule are not interested in gains under the rate of inflation. Warren Buffett's lifetime yearly average is 19%. Historically the average annual return of the S P 500 is over 10%. Mitt Romney earned $43.6 million total over the last 2 years on a net worth of $15... [ More ]

Reply #77

mcginnin56 — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:21:49 GMT

Reply #76

JAP69 — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:17:49 GMT

One thing with taxes is if I won 50 million dollars I do not get to deduct the cost of living increase from my income. If you get 1 1/2 % interest and pay taxes on that and the cost of living increase for the year is 1 1/2% I would be losing money after paying taxes.

Reply #75

haymaker — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:55:12 GMT

i chose neither,long term should get a break.

it will help pensions and retirement plans,

and help stabilize the economy.

Reply #74

JAP69 — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:43:26 GMT

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/FairTax.HTM

An excerpt;

We have 181,000 returns with over a million dollars in AGI for a total of 535 billion dollars. That's an average of just under $3 million each. So millionaires earn about 100 times as much as people in the $30,000 range but pay 300 times as much tax, or three times higher taxes in proportion to their income.

Reply #73

Bigheadnick — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:29:09 GMT

And just like the freak nor easter we had here in Oct or the 65 degree day we had in dec. Freak whether systems and patterns will always occur but the simple fact is the surface temp of the planet as a whole has been rising. The past 2 years are the warmest on record. co2 is an insulator and you just admitted I'm right about humans producing great quantities of it and these amounts are increasing. By the time this problem gets to the point of no argument, it will be too late for us to do anythin... [ More ]

Reply #72

Bigheadnick — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:09:37 GMT

I'm well aware government ineptitude when it comes to many things, but in this case there has to be an authority to implement a plan. Whether they screw that up too is anyones guess. The thing is, who else is has the authority regulate emissions? Who else has the authority to protect forest's? Who else has the resourses to fund alternative technologies? no 1. Leaving environmental responsibility and solutions in the hands of the private sector is foolish. The private sector's only goal is to mak... [ More ]

Reply #71

time*treat — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 00:00:11 GMT

Well, I won't scream. You seem to be right.

I'll just point out that for all our greenhouse gas production, it didn't do any good to the 600+ people who have frozen to death so far this year, in Europe. Lots of good the average global temperature rise did for them.

Reply #70

Boney526 — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:46:42 GMT

You may very well be right. I don't really know much about it, all I know is that IF it is a problem, like most scientists say, I still don't want government involvement, because that would slow down progress.

Reply #69

Bigheadnick — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:22:58 GMT

I tried to get away from this subject and back into the original discussion but you guys are forcing my hand. Human activity dwarfs volcanic activity in terms of co2. But I can't link any sources due to new member policy. Humans produce more co2 in 3 days than all volcanic activity produces in one year. Combine that with deforestation and Ozone depletion and we have a very big problem. If you want google co2 released by volcanoes compared to humans. all the sources you need. But i'm sure you guy... [ More ]

Reply #68

Boney526 — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:03:44 GMT

Also, like I said, a good investment turned into a bad one (b/c of Risk) as a result of Taxation.

I would consider an EV of 1 percent to be good, espeically if it has a low Standard Deviation. I could take an even money bet that has a 1% advantage, and turn myself into a millionaire, with little Risk of Ruin.

You should never assume that you, or anybody else, knows which investments are better, and which types of investments we should encourage people to take.

Reply #67

Boney526 — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:00:42 GMT

Not necessarily. IMO, we shouldn't encourage or discourage any behavior with the tax code, or any other legislation. Most investments don't have a much higher EV than a few percent. Most people just want to ignore the potential of loss, and/or don't do the math necessary to determine a proper amount to invest. Every investment has risk, even treasury bonds.

An expected value of 101-105% per year, is probably the norm for most good investments, because you have to figure, then CAN lose mone... [ More ]

Reply #66

Babel — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 22:52:57 GMT

I'm not sure I'd clasify a 1% expected return and any chance at all of capital loss to be a good investment. Heck you could put the money into treasuries, get a better return, and have essentially no risk on your capital. The scenario you propose wouldn't even keep up with the historic rate of inflation. I suppose I'll agree that a marginal investment might not be worth it due to taxes but do we want to incentivise marginal investing through the tax code

Reply #65

time*treat — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 22:13:10 GMT

A single volcanic eruption can easily unto a decade worth of CO2 CH4 reduction, but if I win tonight's jackpot I'll plant a tree or two somewhere.

Reply #64

Boney526 — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:59:51 GMT

That doesn't prove or disprove anything, except that they were wrong 40 years ago. The Koch brothers funded a study to disprove global warming/climate change, and couldn't. They ended up reconfirming what has been said. Now, don't get me wrong, these hyper-environmentalists are just nutjobs hell bent on controlling the economy through environmental protection .

Global temperatures have risen, though. That doesn't mean all the snow stopped. We may have seen bad snow storms, but we've also... [ More ]

Reply #63

time*treat — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:52:59 GMT

40 years ago, they were screaming about a coming Ice Age, on the cover of Time Magazine.

The've mostly stopped calling it Global Warming because the massive snowstorms that happen every year were dampening the credibility of that brand name.

Reply #62

Boney526 — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:46:46 GMT

Although I think the unequal rate is unfair , as well. It'd be better to simply not tax income at all.

Reply #61

Boney526 — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:41:29 GMT

That's not true, some investments that would be good investments become bad investments with high enough taxes. It's only a good investment if you expect it to return more than 100 percent of your money. So say that with no taxes, you expect an investment to return 101% of what you put in, per year with a standard deviation of 2.5%. The Kelly Criterion (for optimal growth) will tell you to invest (1% of your bankroll divided by 2.5 squared) With a high enough tax rate, this investment is a bad o... [ More ]

Reply #60

Babel — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 18:24:43 GMT

Bah, that was in reply to NightStalker.

Reply #59

Babel — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 18:22:14 GMT

Uh, no. You get people to invest their money by approaching people that have money to invest with a good investment. Investment didn't crater when Reagan tied cap gains to the ordinary income tax rate and it didn't soar when Clinton put the special tax rate on long term gains back. Everyone wants the lowest taxes possible, investors and working stiffs alike, people would also like to loose weight by eating ice cream.

A good investment remains a good investment, regardless of the tax rate, and... [ More ]

Reply #58

Bigheadnick — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 16:45:13 GMT

I still say remove all income taxes period, whether it be money earned through lottery, labor, business profit or stocks. A flat sales tax would balance everything accross the board. I say this full aware that I am poor and my tax burden would likely rise as a percentage of my income. The rich would likely remain the same and the middle class would get a much needed break. The current system as it is is destroying the middle class. I have been in the middle class when work was good and my living... [ More ]

Reply #57

tiggs95 — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 16:38:52 GMT

Everybody pay 15% tax rate...Problem solved by yours truely tiggs...

Reply #56

NightStalker — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 16:06:32 GMT

But that's how you get people to invest their money is by taxing it less. Because people who are investing want the highest rate of return and the lowest taxes on their capital gains. If you continually raise the capital gains taxes, those people will find a different way for their money to work for them.

What I really don't like is the estate tax. Its a tax on money that has already been taxed at least one time.

Reply #55

NightStalker — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 16:05:31 GMT

The government needs to get out of a lot of things. We could have alternatives. The US is the Saudia Arabia of natural gas, but the government has put so many restrictions on fracking, which has been done safely for decades, that it makes it cost prohibitive to do. We could have cars running on compressed natural gas.

The government doesn't like coal fire electric plants or nuclear power plants, but wants us to drive electric cars.

What about hydrogen? Honda built a hydrogen powe... [ More ]

Reply #54

Boney526 — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:06:44 GMT

Honestly, Global Warming is (according to almost all of scientists) is a real threat. The question, IMO, is whether we want to pu the government in charge of preventing it. Of course we don't, they screw everything up.

Best option - get the government out of oil subsidies, along with (stopping) Green Energy subsidies. If they stop subsidizing both sides, then Green Companies will have to compete by making better products instead of competing for Tax Payers money, and maybe we'd have some... [ More ]

Reply #53

Babel — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 04:05:09 GMT

I would do it like Ronald Reagan did and tax cap gains under the same scale as ordinary income. It's simply unfair, whatever the tax scale is, for investment income to be given such a tax preference over income earned through labor.

Reply #52

mcginnin56 — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 22:56:16 GMT

That's quite alright............your passion for politics deserves a AAA+.

Commendable that we have such informed, well educated LP members looking out for us

Reply #51

Bigheadnick — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 22:47:21 GMT

Yeah we've completely gone off topic on this one I guess the part about the flat tax would apply. My apologies for dragging out the off topic discussion. When I see certain statements, I can't resist stating my opinions. I'm extremely passionate in all my beliefs.

Reply #50

mcginnin56 — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 22:25:18 GMT

Ahhhhh................any more input on how this would apply to some lottery winners who invest, to Proposed Buffet Rule? (Original Forum Topic).

Reply #49

Bigheadnick — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 22:13:48 GMT

I want to make this clear: I don't align myself with either left or right. I believe both parties have drifted away from their respective ideologies. I believe both parties have successfuly convinced they're constituants that thay are the good guys and the other side is evil and that there is no middle ground nor a third option. That you are either with us or against us . The truth is there is there is good and bad in both parties and just to show you just how hard it is for me to vote for eithe... [ More ]

Reply #48

rdgrnr — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 20:51:29 GMT

I think you might be overlooking the most important thing to the left - their agenda. It comes before everything and anything. It comes waaaay before truth.

The left are people who want a nanny-state directing every moment of their lives. They want government to control everything and they will stop at nothing to achieve that. They have this one-dimensional, single focus and they want to see it come to fruition now.

If you believe liberal scientists don't apply their own personal bias and... [ More ]

Reply #47

Bigheadnick — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 20:19:34 GMT

I guess we disagree on the definition of concensus then. Concesus by definition is the prevailing thought, opinion or agreement about something. Prevailing thought and concensus can defined as the overwhelming majority opinion. Estimates put this at somewhere between 90-97% of the worldwide scientific community. And even if we assume that percentage is far less as I assume you do. Say it's 50%, Isn't that enough to make it a legitimate threat. Something to be taken seriously and not written off... [ More ]

Reply #46

NightStalker — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 19:26:35 GMT

It is still not a consensus. There were over 650 dissenting climatology scientists at the UN Global Conference on Global Warming. http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs ContentRecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

Since 1998 the avg temp has actually been falling. My point is, is that it is not a consensus.

It is about control. Why would President Empty Suit deny jobs to workers in the Gulf Coast? Jobs that would be created by the Keystone Pipeline

Reply #45

Bigheadnick — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:32:49 GMT

Dana, I could't even read your post, I started to and all that bright bold blue gave me a tension headache.

Reply #44

Bigheadnick — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:31:11 GMT

Of course you're going to cherry pick that example, FROM A RIGHT WING FORUM!!. A selection of 31,000, 3,000 of which aren't even scientists rather doctors and 13,000 of them only have BA's compared to the vast majority of the scientific community. You believe what you want to believe. You want to belive that we're fine, that we can do whatever we want on this planet and no consequences shall arise. How can you be so blind? It is crap like that that leaves me tempted to vote for the libs. You can... [ More ]

Reply #43

CDanaT — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:54:13 GMT

Hey BHnick, I have to respectfully disagree on having BIGGER government authority like the EPA.....They are definitely going to try and outlaw,regulate and rule any activity you do. From noise,to breathing and emitting CO2..pretty soon you will be having to wear gas masks and body suits because you create global warming with body heat from sweating or carbon dioxide from breathing......Remember, its not just about protecting the environment, its also about power and control... Its just like mone... [ More ]

Reply #42

NightStalker — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:44:49 GMT

It is NOT a world wide consensus that global temps are rising. There are hundreds of results on google just searching scientists against global warming and several articles about the thousands of scientists against it.

Here is a link to one article that has 31,000 scientists that reject global warming.

http://www.wnd.com/2008/05/64734/

The global warming hoax is about control. In the 70's these scientists claimed there would be a new ice age by the year 2000. We see how that worked... [ More ]

Reply #41

Bigheadnick — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 06:41:22 GMT

Completely disagree with you on this one. If anything environmental protection should be a bigger global authority. I'm not a democrat, I'm an independant. My political beliefs are like a left,right,left,right checklist. So it's not coming from a loony lefty. The future of our habitat is more important than anything. It is a world wide concensus that global temps are rising at an increasing rate. This isn't lefty propoganda, this is fact. Backed by the entire scientific community. What good is e... [ More ]

Reply #40

rdgrnr — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 04:29:33 GMT

Agreed.

The EPA has become the political arm of the ultra-leftwing, extreme lunatic fringe wack-jobs of the democrat party.

Nobody wants dirty air or dirty water but we don't need these Democrats Gone Wild declaring war on industry and investment just because of their extremist views on everything.

We need fairness and balance and intelligent consideration, not some wacked-out, vegetarian occupier-type loons calling the shots.

Let the states handle it.

Reply #39

Boney526 — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 04:22:23 GMT

That is the biggest complaint among Republicans that I get, but among everyone else who supports him, this is a strong point. Not to mention that 50% of all donations from active military members go to Ron Paul, and he's the only candidate to have served.

I support a foreign policy more like our founders, who said we should stay uninvolved in the domestic affairs of other nations altogether, and uninvolved in their conflicts when possible (when they didn't directly involve us). I think the... [ More ]

Reply #38

rdgrnr — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 04:11:37 GMT

Oh yes, I think there's probably tons of waste that could be cut as there is with anything administered by the government but Obama is already cutting half a trillion dollars out of the defense budget now which is a huge mistake. And I think Ron Paul would cut even further. That is dangerous.

And sticking our head in the sand about Iran's nuclear intentions is even more dangerous. When they get the bomb we will suffer the consequences and you can bet the ranch on that one.

I agree about re... [ More ]

Reply #37

Boney526 — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:54:59 GMT

I don't really believe that, I just think central planning always fails, no matter how well intentioned, or by which expert.

The citizens of the US will eventually get so fed up with the dollar that we legalize precious metals as commodities. The fiat money game is fairly new, and the experiment has failed dramatically. I advocate what Paul does, that we should stop taxing gold and silver, so they can be used as money as the constitution intended. Allow the dollar to stay and compete. Th... [ More ]

Reply #36

mcginnin56 — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:30:41 GMT

Hey NH is right next door. No sales or income tax!

We don't preach to our choir's either.

Reply #35

Bigheadnick — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:20:39 GMT

Preaching to the choir on this one. A flat federal sales tax would be the best way to go. It eliminates the need for the complicated mess that is filing taxes each year. It eliminates the need for the IRS which would save money. Would be so much simpler. What kills me is state income tax. States taxing sales and income is rediculous. Good ol Taxachusettes for ya.

Reply #34

THRIFTY — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 02:00:39 GMT

Well, the federal reserve job is to get the whole world in debt and create wars behind the scene against any government that refuses to be in debt or even murder any leader that refuses the federal reserve control over his or her citizens.

Obama allows the federal reserve to get us in debt, but he tax the banks and businesses that work with the federal reserve.Therefore preventing the federal reserve from creating another great depression by tightening the money supply.Taxing the banks and... [ More ]

Reply #33

Boney526 — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 01:18:15 GMT

The Federal Reserve has still injected trillions into the economy and manipulated interest rates under Obama (although not necessarilly because of him). They've been doing so for a long, long time. That's not really a Republican vs. Democrat issue, that's mostly an executive power problem, and a misunderstanding of economic principles. There's little correlation between party and support, or resistance to, a Federal Reserve audit. Both Democrats and Republicans are for and against transparency o... [ More ]

Reply #32

THRIFTY — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:57:11 GMT

Obama gives it to everybody including the banks. Since he took office the federal reserve has not bullied the world like it used to.He has made the federal reserve pay for causing the recession by taxing the snip out of the banks.They are crying on tv everyday.

This post has been automatically changed by the Lottery Post computer system to remove inappropriate content and/or spam.

Reply #31

Boney526 — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:49:37 GMT

Nah, Ridge just seems to have his facts straight.

The tax code is ridiculous, but most rich people pay a ridiculously high tax rate. Very few (well, relatively few), politically connected people and people investing for a living pay a lower rate. The best way to solve these problems is to elimnate the tax code, and make a simple one. My opinion is, we should allocate a share of taxes to states based on population, thus eliminating the need for an IRS. Or put in place a flat sales tax, an... [ More ]

Reply #30

THRIFTY — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:40:56 GMT

Ridge you seems to be a millionaire. Obama does not play around. He is like the Roman emperor Julius Caesar .

Reply #29

Boney526 — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:39:36 GMT

There are already 50 state EPAs, so my arguement would be to hand more authority back to them. Even better, just have stronger property rights laws, and environmental protection comes as an exfension of your right to property.

Just my thoughts on that. I just think the Federal EPA, just like the vast majority of federal agencies, is grossly incompetent.

Reply #28

Bigheadnick — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:58:54 GMT

The same thought had crossed my mind as far as how expensive it could be to enact these reforms however, the droves of blood sucking leachers that would be booted off the system for drug use, fraud, criminal activity etc.. would absolutely outweigh the cost of enforcement.

With respect to Ron Paul, I love his policies of scaling back government and beaurocrasy. The propblem I have with him as well as the rest of the candidates is they're complete disregard for the problems facing our environ... [ More ]

Reply #27

Boney526 — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:36:48 GMT

The problem I have with these ideas are that they would be horridly expensive to initiate, and would likely violate our rights. These ideas of government oversight of day to day life is eerily similar to the violations like the Stamp Act. I say anybody whose over X age gets to keep their benefits, and the rest of us should fend for our selves in the market. (AKA, not get taxed, and buy or don't buy insurance ourselves) Or maybe our state would come up with it's own version. (I'd advocate the mar... [ More ]

Reply #26

Boney526 — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:23:21 GMT

You honestly think that after doubling the military budget, we can find NO room to scale back? There's no waste? I understand that the Federal Government's most important role is to defend the country, but there's LOTS of room for cuts in the military budget. My first 2 would be to remove troops from Germany and Japan.

I can understand disagreeing with him on Foreign Policy (I do think we should have some involvement in protecting our interests, but I agree with him that all of that action... [ More ]

Reply #25

time*treat — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:45:08 GMT

I won't dissect this point by point, but nearly every problem you've described can be traced back to some direct or indirect consequence of one gov't program or other.

Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams have done many columns on what life was like before and after various programs were passed to help people -- Prohibition, Minimum wage (Davis-Bacon), War on Poverty, school subsidies, etc. There has been no problem so bad that the gov't couldn't get involved in ... and make worse.

Entitlemen... [ More ]

Reply #24

Bigheadnick — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:13:00 GMT

Although I understand and share your frustration with people taking advantage, I disagree with your solution. Not everyone has family who are willing or able to help them if they fall. There are no charities that will pay your rent or bills if you fall. Not everyone has the ability to save for a rainy day as you suggest for most people live paycheck to paycheck and once it's gone, they're screwed.

If they eliminate these programs completely as you suggest, your taxes will be no lower than be... [ More ]

Reply #23

sully16 — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:35:42 GMT

Yes, enough is enough, if people finds themselves down and out through no fault of their own they can depend on family or charity. not a government forcing me through taxation. The social saftey nets are being abused.

And yes, I have been down and out, a long time ago, I learned from my mistakes, and they were my mistakes. Nobody and I mean nobody, had to support me.

If you can't feed kids, you don't have them,

I am tired of telling my son no, he can't have something, because our checks... [ More ]