Can MM & PB Start Being Honest? Must this farce continue?

Reply #53

OldSchoolPa — Sat, 29 Jun 2013 14:57:41 GMT

Teddi, the cash value amount is the amount the lottery has collected to invest to fund the annuity. Annuities all either guarantee or offer some level of interest which results in a higher total amount over a period of time. So it is not feasible for the lottery to pay out to those chosing present value cash value in a lump sum the annuity value (which is the projected amount over a period of years according to the particulars of the annuity).

When I win, I will insist on only taking a pictur... [ More ]

Reply #52

Stack47 — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 21:56:29 GMT

It was clearly a personal attack.

Only if you believe breaking the law by leaving the scene of an horrible accident makes sense.

But people who don't like seeing an inflated annuitized amount is arguing from an ethical perspective.

Nobody cares if you disagree with MUSL's ethics in advertising the jackpot amount. Neither PB or MM tickets are sold in Toronto so you probably don't know state lotteries all across the U.S. advertise the huge jackpots in the form of highest possible win.... [ More ]

Reply #51

savagegoose — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 19:29:56 GMT

when you win, get a cardboard cut out of the president holding big novelt check for his share of the prize with a big grin over his face, maybe with a yes we can talk bubble, insist on all press photos of you holding the check to also include the pres holding his cut for the camera.

Reply #50

Ronnie316 — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 15:17:19 GMT

Can't we be like the other countries?

In America we like a good farce. It keeps the stupid people honest.

Reply #49

Jon D — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 14:01:43 GMT

I am going to reach out my hand here. I apologize for everything I've said that offended you or anyone else.

No, I'm not just saying it. It's a genuine apology. I don't believe I've done anything wrong. I still believe that I am more right. Even so, I do apologize for offending people...

Uummm...nice lawyeresque non-apology apology there. No admission of wrongoing. To paraphrase, you are saying you're right, you've done nothing wrong, but you apologize if anyone was offended by what you sa... [ More ]

Reply #48

Teddi — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 13:18:08 GMT

I completely agree. JoshUK put up a new discussion about how high the Euromillions had gotten to. In US dollars it comes out to $242M. If one person wins, that winner will actually take home more money than Gloria for all the hoopla about her winning over half a billion dollars. I can't help but to see the oddity in that. Had the $590M really been $590M, even after taxes she would have received $356M. Let's face it, Gloria was always going to be winning the lump sum, not the real JP. No 84 year... [ More ]

Reply #47

Teddi — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 13:03:43 GMT

Wow. Bitter much?

Are you capable of having a discussion without the high degree of passive aggressiveness or do you actually find it works for you?

I asked a question, if you don't like the question, move along to the dozens of other discussion threads out there. I'm sure the rest of us can continue the discussion and even hold different opinions without the need to lower the talks to a slinging match. Why people feel the need to constantly turn a fun topic into bitter diatribes is beyon... [ More ]

Reply #46

yoho — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 05:19:50 GMT

It was clearly a personal attack. If you don't realize calling someone an idiot is a personal attack, I think you need to go back to school and learn English.

Do you actually believe it makes no sense from a business standpoint to advertise the highest possible jackpot they will pay?

Seriously, you really need to go learn English. You really lack reading comprehension. I clearly stated that I AGREED WITH YOU IN THAT IT DOES MAKE SENSE for the lottery.

so why would you as... [ More ]

Reply #45

yoho — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 05:13:42 GMT

I know that exchange rates differences are not the same as the time value of money. But the result is the same; it creates a difference in the value of 1.

If something was wrong with what I said in the second highlighted part, it would be the grammar. When I said the currencies are different , I was referring to the USD now versus the USD 30 years later. It is different, just as Vietnamese dongs are different to the USD. It doesn't matter whether the reason they're different is the same or no... [ More ]

Reply #44

rcbbuckeye — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 03:51:21 GMT

We don't pay (play) with dongs here in America. LOL.

Yoho, just check the annuity box on your playslip and you will get the annuitized amount. All of it. Or if you croak before you get all of it, your beneficiary will get the rest of it. It's not that hard. Really.

Reply #43

Stack47 — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 02:19:43 GMT

It wasn't a personal attack, but a response to an idiotic comparison.

Your responses with absolutely no logic nor reasoning shows that you cannot argue against my points.

Where is the logic in saying It also makes sense for a guy who accidentally hit and badly injured an old lady at night to drive away as fast as possible so no one knows he did it. ?

Using your mindless logic it also makes sense to stop and a steal her purse before driving away as fast as possible.

I'm not arguing... [ More ]

Reply #42

Jon D — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 01:54:42 GMT

Horrible example.

Next time, instead of annuity, they should just say 105,175,000,000 Jackpot! And in fine prints say In vietnamese dongs. Worth about 5,000,000 USD.

The wager is in US Dollars, so the prize payment would be in USD. We don't pay with dongs here in America.

Actually this example is EXACTLY the same as what powerball/MM is doing. The currencies are different, because of the time value of money.

Incorrect. The value of the dong and dollar is different because of the cur... [ More ]

Reply #41

yoho — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 23:16:41 GMT

I just thought of a good example.

Next time, instead of annuity, they should just say

105,175,000,000 Jackpot!

And in fine prints say In vietnamese dongs. Worth about 5,000,000 USD. Doesn't that sound nice? 105 billion jackpot!

Actually this example is EXACTLY the same as what powerball/MM is doing. The currencies are different, because of the time value of money.

In this case, the PV (Present Value) of 105 billion vietnamese dongs is about 5 million USD... [ More ]

Reply #40

duckman — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 22:07:16 GMT

Annunity amounts are all about marketing and attempts at making jackpots seem as high as possible. It's the same kind of marketing mind set on scratch tickets that have statements such as Win up to 10 times on this ticket which has absolutely nothing to do with how much the actual ticket was destined to be worth...

Reply #39

yoho — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 21:28:55 GMT

I made no personal attacks against you, yet in your response, what do you have, other than ad hominem?

When did I even mention anything about taxes? I was clearly talking about the annuitized amount, and saying that it's not the true amount. That's it. Why in the world would you think I'm talking about taxes? If you want to insult my intelligence, at least prove that you have the intelligence yourself to judge. And the amount of reading comprehension (or lack thereof) certainly doesn't s... [ More ]

Reply #38

Stack47 — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 05:36:07 GMT

In which other type of gambling win would this be okay to anyone?

Have you ever read the fine print on the large jackpot slot machines or some of the Caribbean Stud jackpots?

The people who win a $5M house aren't given an option of a 500K house if they want the house now or they can own parts of the house, once a year, until they get the full $5M house at the end of 30 years.

A little late to be changing the subject trying to compare apples to oranges. Besides those raffles usually i... [ More ]

Reply #37

Stack47 — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 05:18:17 GMT

in that it makes sense for them to advertise the aunnitized jackpot, and give you a check for the annuitiized amount even though that's not what you're gonna get.

If you're talking about deducting Federal and State taxes, I thought a smart guy like you (Jimmy4164 thinks you are smart) knew the lottery commissions are required by Federal and State law to deduct taxes.

It also makes sense for a guy who accidentally hit and badly injured an old lady at night to drive away as fast as possibl... [ More ]

Reply #36

Teddi — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 01:22:17 GMT

In no other type of gambling win would this two tiered payout system be acceptable.

In which other type of gambling win would this be okay to anyone? The people who win a $5M house aren't given an option of a 500K house if they want the house now or they can own parts of the house, once a year, until they get the full $5M house at the end of 30 years.

Okay, that example is a little ridiculous, but the underlying principle still stands.

You don't win a diamond necklace a get a diamond p... [ More ]

Reply #35

Teddi — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:58:14 GMT

Well, considering we're on a lottery website on a lottery discussion forum, I thought I'd stick with discussing the lottery and not air my gripes towards ALL industries that engage in misleading advertising. A lot of industries have been forced to clean up their acts when it comes to their advertising methods. Just seems like the lottery isn't one of them.

That being said. I've never seen a car dealer advertise $x/month without letting you know how many months are involved. That seems more t... [ More ]

Reply #34

Teddi — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:39:33 GMT

It sounds like you still don't understand how the jackpot payouts work. That or you either want the lottery to give out money they never collected or keep more of what they did collect when somebody chooses the anuity.

No, I get how they work and in a way I was being facetious. I know there are some who prefer annual payouts as a way of reducing the risk that they won't manage a large lump sum properly. So for these people, I guess offer them a yearly payment option that isn't worth more... [ More ]

Reply #33

yoho — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 20:01:50 GMT

I can see both sides of this argument.

I completely agree with you, stack47, in that it makes sense for them to advertise the aunnitized jackpot, and give you a check for the annuitiized amount even though that's not what you're gonna get.

It also makes sense for a guy who accidentally hit and badly injured an old lady at night to drive away as fast as possible so no one knows he did it. It just makes sense for him to avoid the trouble.

But you know what? That's not what... [ More ]

Reply #32

Stack47 — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 18:23:59 GMT

Don't give me a check for $105M to hold up when they have no intention of giving that amount.

Speaking of farces, this is a real one. The lottery commission will pay you $105 million and told you before you bought the ticket it will be paid off in yearly installments. They will give you the choice of getting a check for the cash value too. They would probably make the amount on fake check in the amount of the cash value if that was your choice.

Is it just me or does knowing someone might... [ More ]

Reply #31

Stack47 — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:22:21 GMT

It depends on how we define risk and how we perceive buying a $1 lottery ticket. I look at it as probably wasting a dollar because I know I have a very tiny chance of winning the jackpot. A risk to me is if I had a dollar coin, was going to buy a lottery ticket with it, but dropped it into a pool of hungry man-eating sharks. Should I risk my life for a very tiny chance to win the jackpot?

It seems all the other countries in the world, including Canada, the UK, Spain, France and Italy would a... [ More ]

Reply #30

rcbbuckeye — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:33:13 GMT

We have a car dealer in the Metroplex that advertises $88 down and $88 a month on any car. Really???

And you can bet (literally) there are people who fall for that.

Just like people who just can't understand how the lottery works.

Reply #29

rcbbuckeye — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:30:28 GMT

Exactly.

When I look at how much the jackpot is I don't even look at the advertised jackpot. I'm only concerned with the cash.

Reply #28

KY Floyd — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 06:34:27 GMT

discontinue the annuity payments, or make the annuity payment equal to the cash payout.

It sounds like you still don't understand how the jackpot payouts work. That or you either want the lottery to give out money they never collected or keep more of what they did collect when somebody chooses the anuity. The only real jackpot is the cash, and the cash is a known percentage of sales. If you don't want all the cash right away you can collect it in small chunks and earn interest on the part yo... [ More ]

Reply #27

RJOh — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 06:32:44 GMT

That is where we differ because I consider risk as putting my money into something where the outcome is not certain regardless of amount.

When you spend a dollar on a beer you know you're going to piss it away but spend a dollar on a lottery ticket and it's anybody guess what will happen.

Reply #26

whiteballz — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 06:18:06 GMT

That is where we differ because I consider risk as putting my money into something where the outcome is not certain regardless of amount. To me it is calculated risk to buy a one dollar Mega Millions ticket. I weigh the risk, which is, the ticket I bought matches none of the numbers drawn meaning I lose the dollar I spent to my perceived benefit, the idea I may win a large sum of money and then decide if that it is an acceptable risk for me to take.

Another reason I call it risk is to drive h... [ More ]

Reply #25

RJOh — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 06:11:08 GMT

Do you get equally upset when car dealers advertise for only $200 a month you can own a new car? You really know you will eventually have to pay $25K+ plus interest if you ever do own that car even when it's old and a piece of junk.

Reply #24

Stack47 — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 05:53:07 GMT

That is what I mean when I said someone is risking their money.

I understood what you meant, but I think the word risk is inappropriate for a dollar a drawing player just hoping to win millions and day dreaming about how they will spend it. To me a risk is betting $10,000 on a single drawing believing they will win the jackpot.

Reply #23

Teddi — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 03:10:19 GMT

You guys are all probably right. I guess I'd just prefer their honesty. I'd be ecstatic to win $60M, and know that it's $60M (not counting taxes of course). Don't tell me it's $105 when it's not. Don't give me a check for $105M to hold up when they have no intention of giving that amount.

Definitely $500M caught our attention, but wouldn't it have caught our attention just as much as billboards and websites touting a guaranteed payout of $370M?

Is it just me or does knowing someone might... [ More ]

Reply #22

veganlife125 — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 02:04:32 GMT

They should get rid of the annuity and force everyone to take the lump sum. The billboards in each state should show your part after federal state taxes withheld. They won't ever do it. One day soon the total government take will be up around 90% because of all the human envy.

Reply #21

whiteballz — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:59:16 GMT

If you want to think of buying a ticket as a chance to dream that's fine with me. Legally speaking, the lottery is a form of gambling. A person is placing a wager that the 6 numbers they have on their ticket will be drawn. If they match all 6 numbers they win the jackpot, if they match zero numbers, then their ticket is completely worthless. That is what I mean when I said someone is risking their money.

Reply #20

Coin Toss — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:39:02 GMT

Teddi,

Yes, I think anyone with an internet connection can see how they do it. But my question is WHY do they do it?

Quite simply, it's their way of advertising, how they promote themselves. Paying winners 'goes with the territory'. They're not in the business of paying winners, they're in the business of promoting the lottery to make money off of it. Tons and tons of money.

haymaker,

Re: gov't as partners. Remember the series Wiseguy with Ken Wahl and Ray Sharkey? Wahl was an unde... [ More ]

Reply #19

Stack47 — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:22:42 GMT

Remember the fact that as a lottery player you're taking all the risk by wagering your money against astronomical odds, the government takes no risk and wagers nothing but in a sense, they are your partner because when or if you win, they take half.

If you know before buying a ticket the government is going to take half the winnings, you know you're betting on winning half the jackpot. The same is true with the advertised payment prize. By taking the cash, you'll probably get about 40% of th... [ More ]

Reply #18

maringoman — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:14:11 GMT

The drop from advertised jackpot to the cash value is particularly steep for PB. I don't know why is has to be that way. I does not bother me too much. I would be happy to just win the base jackpot and fade away

Reply #17

Ronnie316 — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:00:29 GMT

I like my odds.

Reply #16

noise-gate — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:48:05 GMT

Either way you look at it- your returns on a $1.00 or $2.00 investment should you win is humongous.

Reply #15

haymaker — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:47:37 GMT

The farce will never stop.

The dog pony show must go on.

Reply #14

whiteballz — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:39:34 GMT

Reply #13

haymaker — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:31:17 GMT

Yea, that's the problem, gov't wants to be a partner in everything.

Reply #12

whiteballz — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:23:30 GMT

what makes things even worse for US lottery players is not only do the other countries advertise the cash value of their jackpot,

almost all the other countries do NOT tax lottery winnings.

So if you're a US lottery player who wants the cash value, you need to take the advertise jackpot, subtract about 40% to get to the cash amount, then take away about 50% of the cash amount for state income tax and federal income tax to finally arrive at what the government will allow you to keep.

Rem... [ More ]

Reply #11

Stack47 — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:13:47 GMT

When the huge jackpot (huge compared to their other prizes) lotto games began there was no cash option; if the jackpot was $2 million, it was payed in 20 installments of $100,000. It wasn't until they started offering $10 million jackpots when players began asking for a cash option. In some states the decision of cash or payments had to be made when the ticket was purchased.

As of today, nothing has really changed because the jackpot is still advertised at the installment prize. The length of... [ More ]

Reply #10

lottolaughs — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:36:55 GMT

Very simple. Huge amounts draw huge ticket sales. Nobody wants to see a PB winner holding a $1,000,000 check. Where's the excitement in that? People want to see lots of 00000000's :) Our country is run on media hype,period. Ads,ads,ads,commericials,commercials,commercials pounding at us all day long. 1,000,000 might not catch your ear but 500 million will.

Reply #9

billionaire2bee — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:19:48 GMT

EEEHhhh they do it to attract the people who dont normally buy tickets on a regular basis...they show that hyperinflated amount and people just loose their minds....I mean alot of people buy tickets when it is 300 million but I dont know anybody that wouldnt throw at least 1 or 2 bucks at it when it is at 600 million....and they dont think about the cash value they just see that 600 million and the media hypes it up as well talking about how many ferrarris you could buy etc etc

Reply #8

Jon D — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 16:46:26 GMT

The reason is Sales and Marketing. They do it because it works. People fall for it.

Obscuring the true value of things for Sales and Marketing purposes is the American way. Like they sell you a $800 smartphone for $300, but what they are really doing is making you take out a loan on the phone and if you end your 2 year contact early, they come after you for the deficiency.(they refer to as the ETF)

The jast big jackpot was advertised as over half a billion dollars, $590M. But it was only a... [ More ]

Reply #7

Ronnie316 — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 16:33:47 GMT

Not only does it increase sales, but I would think the states make some profits off the annuity.

Reply #6

RJOh — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 16:27:50 GMT

The higher annuity amount doesn't ever effect my decision to play since I always know the cash value too.

Reply #5

ameriken — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 16:17:20 GMT

The economics, finance and accounting lesson not withstanding, it doesn't answer the why

Because the higher annuity amount sells more tickets. And judging by how people go nuts over an inflated annuity amount, it works.

Reply #4

Teddi — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 16:10:25 GMT

Yes, I think anyone with an internet connection can see how they do it. But my question is WHY do they do it?

The economics, finance and accounting lesson not withstanding, it doesn't answer the why.

Canada doesn't do it, neither does the UK. If there's a lottery amount, that's the only amount the winner gets. There's no: who will buy what at what percentage to give a lottery winner at X time X amount.

If you win a house (except for taxes) that's the house you get. There isn't a smaller... [ More ]

Reply #3

rcbbuckeye — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:52:01 GMT

This has been explained so many times I'm amazed this still comes up.

The cash value is the amount that the lottery would INVEST over a period of time to achieve the ANNUITY amount.

You want the money now? Take the cash option.

You want an income stream over x number of years? Take the annuity.

Yes they promote the annuity amount. It's the larger amount. Ok. No big deal.

If you go to PB's website and read it, they explain it in precise detail.

Reply #2

Teddi — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:45:36 GMT

My point is either discontinue the annuity payments, or make the annuity payment equal to the cash payout. Make neither a higher option than the other.

But if they are going to keep JP amounts different, at the very least quit posing the people who choose the lump sum payment with the total JP amount. At best it's disingenuous, and worst it's a grand lie. Either way, it isn't honest since that check doesn't represent the amount they are planning on giving that person.

Other countries hav... [ More ]

Reply #1

HoLeeKau — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:30:39 GMT

Hot Lotto just switched to an all-cash jackpot where the amount they advertise is the amount you win.

Honestly, it doesn't bother me at all to have the annuity amount advertised. Within a few days of starting to play the lottery I had it figured out that because of my choice to take the cash option I would receive the amount they would have to invest to pay out the annuity.

If they advertised the cash amount, you know someone will start whining that they didn't know the annuity was higher... [ More ]

Can MM & PB Start Being Honest? Must this farce continue?

Teddi — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:24:00 GMT

Go to the Powerball website and in big bold letters they claim a $105 Million. In much smaller letters is the cash payout, valued at less than 61% of that large-fonted $105M.

They'll give you that full amount in drips and drabs over so long a period, you're using a walker and gumming baby food by the time you get it all, or you settle for 60 cents on the dollar to get it now.

Yet even with the lump sum ripoff option, they force the winners to parade with that cardboard check for the amoun... [ More ]