Lottery Ethics

Reply #35

JeetKuneDoLotto — Sat, 10 Aug 2019 00:59:28 GMT

The cover excuse is not sustainable. IMO, its a lazy mans decree. I cant win because...A.

I cant win because B.

I cant win because C.

My quantum math contradicts your claim. No one needs AI to rig anything. But IMO AI will rig everything one day...if we let it.

Thats why I bought two honest lottery tickets today. Real balls.

Reply #34

LottoLucy — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 14:32:57 GMT

I don t think the double play money goes towards the jackpot. For winning 6/6, if you play double play, you win a fixed amount of $1.5 million not the advertised jackpot. It is really just a chance to play the same set of numbers in two different games packaged together. I think you re right that it might drive sales at least at first.

Reply #33

Sarge0202 — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 12:37:40 GMT

I actually think the second drawing is a a very good idea. A smaller portion will play the second drawing meaning an even LESS chance of someone winning. So the second drawing is basically free money to increase the pot size.

Reply #32

LottoLucy — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 05:15:03 GMT

As Sarge said, math. Part of the reason no one is winning is because not nearly enough people are playing to cover all of the 10,737,573 possible combinations. It could be lottery fatigue like you describe or it could be that winning $500,000 (the cash option on the starting million) isn t sexy enough when compared to games like Powerball but people just are not putting down the cash to have the jackpot won on a regular basis.

Keeping in mind that the annuity value went up $550,000 so the cas... [ More ]

Reply #31

Sarge0202 — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 04:11:13 GMT

They are not using AI, they are using math.

Looking at your jackpot history , it goes up starting at 50K and your last draw went up 550K$. Looks like the double play that started this year is helping the bigger jackpots. The game has always been a 6/47, so they didn't change the odds by changing the matrix like MM/PB did.

The house always wins.

Reply #30

Rook — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 03:20:16 GMT

The classic lotto 47 in Michigan starts at $1 million. If it were to hypothetically hit every time, then every drawing, the lottery would need to pay out $1 million (taxes and lump sum factors aside). But when it doesn't hit and rolls, it doesn't increase by $1 million, only 100K-200K typically. So the lottery gets more profits when it doesn't hit for a long time. When I started playing years ago, commonly it would hit once every few drawings. For it to go up to even the 3 million range was unco... [ More ]

Reply #29

Sarge0202 — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 03:02:25 GMT

What makes you think Michigan uses AI? Why would they need to use AI? It is a simple database query to figure out unpicked set of numbers at draw time. A Random Number Generator is not AI.

Are you saying the Michigan AI is rigged because nobody wins it frequently, or because you haven't been wining frequently? According to their website , the odds of wining the jackpot is 1 in 10,737,573. If 4-6 million a game played, sure you will get more winners. Looking at the last game, you had about 22,... [ More ]

Reply #28

Rook — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 02:26:11 GMT

I don't think it matters, because regardless of whether it's AI or numbered balls or anything else, if the people in charge decide to rig it, then they will rig it. When I used to play the state draw games picked by AI here in Michigan, I did so under the assumption that it was rigged to only let a jackpot hit once a certain threshold in profits had been reached. I basically just thought to myself.. Okay, so if that were true, would I still want to play? And for several years my answer was yeah... [ More ]

Reply #27

JeetKuneDoLotto — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 04:01:20 GMT

Fascinating. Those fancy scales used to really piss me off. Numbers never want to stay still.

I like that he put gloves on. Dont want greasy french fry fingers getting on the balls.

I will watch the power ball one later.

I am not sure, but from what he says in the video, the pre-tests are done to ensure random. Security and pre-tests are independent variables.

He said something like if two magenta balls come up in a row, then they have to re do.

They should put on body cameras lik... [ More ]

Reply #26

grwurston — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 05:25:25 GMT

The link below is the drawing procedure for the SC lottery. It gives a very detailed explanation of every thing they do. Every state has similar security procedures. But they may vary on how many people are involved in the process and how many rehearsals they do. So my question continues to be, with security this tight, why the need for pre tests? How could anyone tamper with anything?

https://youtu.be/QLI3c9Fji0Y

As far as pulling the ball sets from my previous post, that was explained to... [ More ]

Reply #25

JeetKuneDoLotto — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 03:53:15 GMT

You cant bet on pre-tests so whats the point of worrying about and putting your attention on something that is not going to help you. Only Texas has pre-test data. I used to be obsessed about looking at the pre-tests, until I realized its not worth the time.

As far as them pulling a ball set , can you substantiate your claim with some data? When was the last time your state pulled a ball set? How far was the deviance? That would be an interesting news story, to know and understand the standa... [ More ]

Reply #24

JeetKuneDoLotto — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 03:45:15 GMT

I suppose this is a twist on the original premise. But yes I bought an RNG ticket. I am a hypocrite! But I won a little cash. (using my gap strategy) But the only cheaper alternative was a pick 3 which is also a RNG. And a pick 3, I cant really use the same gap strategy. X[?,?] I suppose its not impossible to adapt a gap strategy for pick 3. I did try not too long ago, but I was having a hard time to make the 470, rearrange into a 047, so I mostly gave up for now.

But the new ethical problem

Reply #23

grwurston — Sat, 13 Jul 2019 22:14:38 GMT

To me, random is firing up that machine and conducting a single 'clean' draw each and every time....end of story.

100%

If the official drawings are completely random, why aren't the pre tests considered completely random also? They are NOT!!! Which is proven by the fact that they will pull a ball set if there is a random event which they do not like.

For example, if the #4 comes up 3 out of 5 times in position 1, they will do 3 more draws. If it comes up 2 more times in position 1, th... [ More ]

Reply #22

Lucky Loser — Sat, 13 Jul 2019 16:30:36 GMT

I always like this topic when it's reintroduced because the perspective(s) always vary again. Without a doubt, the mechanical ball draw/drop method is the timeless tried and true deal while deemed the most legit...and fair. In my opinion, even if there were no quality control prerequisites to insure that all the balls weighed the same within the allowable tolerances, it would still be 100% better than any RNG software. This method cannot be tampered with to produce a desired result becasue we're... [ More ]

Reply #21

JeetKuneDoLotto — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 07:28:09 GMT

Hi Raven. I kind of like you. I sent you a PM, but your box is full. Nevertheless! Words are important.

Morality of gambling. Seems like a paradox.

Ethics of gambling. More paradoxicallity.

The other day, I bought a lottery ticket...

I failed.

I bought a RNG.

But the alternative was non RNG.

I suffer from Quandary.

Reply #20

KY Floyd — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 14:31:15 GMT

The AI is actively trying to select combinations that it thinks no one will pick

That's not entirely a game of chance and it would have a few consequences for the odds, but it might be an interesting game. Obviously the smarter players wouldn't play a lot of birthday numbers when the game started but if enough players avoided them after a while the most likely combination might turn out to be something like 1,2,3,4,30,31.

Reply #19

Stack47 — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 01:24:37 GMT

I'm trying to imagine how an AI-selected game would work...

Most of the live ball drawings are automated, but there was a time when a host or a hostess opened and closed a small door. How about robot replacing people?

But the more I think about it, can you picture a robot using too much force, destroying the tube and ping pong balls going everywhere.

Reply #18

Murgatroyd — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 00:17:58 GMT

I'm trying to imagine how an AI-selected game would work...

This could actually be kind of fun. No quick-pick option - you must choose your own numbers. The AI is actively trying to select combinations that it thinks no one will pick - it has no information about the tickets sold for the current drawing, but is trained using data on the tickets from all previous drawings. Are you good enough to out-think it? Pay your buck, try your luck! (Don't bother with birthday numbers.

Reply #17

Raven62 — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:51:44 GMT

RNG is the computer equivalent of chance.

Chance: The possibility of something happening in the absence of any obvious design.

Reply #16

music* — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 11:51:46 GMT

sully16, A rng is a random number generator. It is better to use real balls.

Reply #15

user34 — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:50:50 GMT

Do you guys see that you're strangers arguing at eachother over an internet forum? Take a step back and look

Reply #14

rcbbuckeye — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 03:19:37 GMT

I wrote to him to help him learn how to look around . I wasn't criticizing him.

Reply #13

BobP — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 03:01:20 GMT

If you want to play and the RNG is the only game in town, then playing it doesn't mean you are supporting it any more then not playing means you are boycotting. You have to let the lottery know you are not playing, why, if you're spreading the word, and what they are losing in sales. Otherwise you're just part of the rabble that doesn't want to be a millionaire.

IMHO I wouldn't put the effort into playing an RNG game, just the occasional QP in case luck is on the wing.

BobP... [ More ]

Reply #12

garyo1954 — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 02:38:00 GMT

The strands of thought as to whether lotteries are ethical or moral go beyond the idea of AI/RNG generated numbers.......

The political philosopher Edmund Burke (1729-1797) detected great danger in government promotion of gambling. From isolated games of chance and even lottery syndicates, Burke advised, could come a broader culture of speculation and fortune-seeking that would impoverish a nation. Speaking of France, whose legislators Burke recognized as the very first who have founded a co... [ More ]

Reply #11

music* — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:45:04 GMT

Todd must put up with a lot.

Reply #10

Stack47 — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:54:28 GMT

The topic here is about RNGs and the guy just signed up yesterday; give him a chance to look around.

Reply #9

rcbbuckeye — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 14:52:15 GMT

If you use the search feature here you will find the news stories and discussion on LP about it.

Reply #8

user34 — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 14:50:14 GMT

Did you ever hear about this:

Hot Lotto fraud scandal

The Hot Lotto fraud scandal broke in 2017, after Eddie Raymond Tipton, the former information security director of the Multi-State Lottery Association, confessed to rigging a random number generator that he and two others used in multiple cases of fraud against state lotteries. Tipton was first convicted in October 2015 of rigging a $14.3 million drawing of MUSL's lottery game Hot Lotto. Eddie Tipton ultimately confessed to riggin... [ More ]

Reply #7

Raven62 — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 03:17:23 GMT

It's a personal choice based on your view.

The words moral and ethics are often used interchangeably. However, it is useful to make the following distinction: Morality is the system through which we determine right and wrong conduct (i.e.: the guide to good or right conduct). Ethics is the philosophical study of Morality.

Reply #6

Stack47 — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 01:21:29 GMT

There are state games using RNGs for almost all their drawings that doesn't give their players the option if the want to play. And there are certain games like 5 card cash where the terminal RNG chooses the play and another RNG does the drawing. Games like 4 minute Keno would make using live ball drawings next to impossible.

PB and MM are both live ball drawings as any larger jackpot game should be. At the end of the day, players will play their favorite games regardless of how the results ar... [ More ]

Reply #5

Artist77 — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 01:02:43 GMT

Then why are you a member of a lottery site

Reply #4

Soledad — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 00:07:56 GMT

No. It s morally wrong to support lottery games period. They selling false hope. The only thing in the world where you pay to get nothing in return.

Reply #3

Coin Toss — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:55:30 GMT

JeerKuneDoLotto0,

Those who run the lotteries already know that if there was nothing but RNG games there would still be more than enough players to support the lotteries.

If people;e boycotted a lottery it might send a message but I don't think it would ever happen.

Reply #2

LiveInGreenBay — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 20:14:19 GMT

In Wisconsin RNG computers pick random numbers using radioactive decay. What does AI have to do with this? When AI RNG computers start picking numbers, I'm done.

Reply #1

cottoneyedjoe — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 20:05:52 GMT

I don't think it's morally wrong to play them, but I also generally avoid them. The lotteries, rather than the players, have ethical obligations.

Lottery Ethics

JeetKuneDoLotto — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 19:13:07 GMT

Generally, I try to avoid RNG like the plague, even opting for a higher odds game at times. I often switch back to the lower odds RNG, but then I think Playing this game violates all my ethics and beliefs regarding games of chance.

However many states are opting for this questionable practice. What do you think?

Should these games be boycotted? Are they free from corruption? How can a player protect themselves when playing games like Quick Draw? Do the dangers outweigh the rewards?

Jus... [ More ]