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Hyperdimension

United States
Member #9,059
November 26, 2004
221 Posts
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Dec 2, 2004, 8:19 pm

Comparing wheel 9, 6, 5, 5

Both wheels match 5 out of 5 (100%) if 5 of the wheel's 9 numbers are correct.

Number distribution

W.R.Wheel Covermaster v0.55.2.0

1 20 1 25

2 20 2 25

3 20 3 22

4 20 4 24

5 20 5 22

6 20 6 21

7 20 7 22

8 20 8 22

9 20 9 21

Tickets

World Record Wheel 30

Covermaster 34

Example:

Price of ticket 1 dollar

Prizes 3 correct 4 correct 5 correct

$5 $120 $1000

Suppose you match 5 of the wheel's 9 numbers give the next

average wins:

3 4 5

World Record Wheel 14.29 10.71 1.43

Covermaster 16.19 12.14 1.62

Average win Ticket cost Av. Utility

W.Record Wheel 2786.65 30 2756.65

Covermaster 3157.75 34 3123.75

Questions:

1. Which wheel is better?

2. Why?

I don't know which wheel is better, I need your help..

Cya

Consciousness order chaos.

http://thefootballpools.blogspot.com
lottoarchitect

Greece
Member #2,815
November 18, 2003
502 Posts
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Dec 3, 2004, 8:28 am

You cannot evaluate which wheel is better that way.

A rule of thumb suggests that we try to minimize our costs (reduce total tickets) and retain high hit ratios. Obviously both wheels will offer 100% hit on 5if5 condition but what are the % rates for higher divisions? We expect a 34 ticket wheel will offer a bit higher hit rates but at the same time we increase our overall cost. 99% of the time, this analogy is worse compared to the world record wheel. However, a case that BobP suggests and should be avoided is the use of a split wheel. In general, WR wheels are preferable as the increase of cost does not keep up with the increase of odds offered.

If you have something to do, at least do it well...
RJOh

100

mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
20,272 Posts
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Dec 3, 2004, 9:27 am

I used CoverMaster with the optimzer on as it generated the 9,6,5,5 wheel and it produce the following 31 lines. You can check the reports for the break downs.
1 2 3 5 6 7
1 3 5 6 7 8
1 3 4 5 7 9
2 3 4 6 7 8
1 2 3 7 8 9
2 3 4 5 7 8
2 3 4 7 8 9
1 2 3 4 7 8
2 3 4 5 6 9
1 3 4 6 8 9
2 3 5 6 7 9
2 3 5 6 8 9
3 5 6 7 8 9
1 2 6 7 8 9
2 4 5 7 8 9
1 3 4 5 8 9
3 4 5 6 7 9
1 3 5 6 7 9
1 4 6 7 8 9
1 2 3 4 5 9
1 2 3 5 6 8
2 4 5 6 7 8
1 4 5 6 8 9
1 2 4 6 8 9
1 2 4 5 7 8
1 2 4 6 7 9
1 2 3 4 5 6
1 2 5 7 8 9
1 3 4 5 6 7
1 2 3 5 6 9
3 4 5 6 8 9
RJOh

* you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones *
Hyperdimension

United States
Member #9,059
November 26, 2004
221 Posts
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Dec 3, 2004, 7:45 pm

Hi,

Apagogeas and RJOh thank you for your comments,

Well I tested the optimized wheel RJOh shows above and get the next results:

Number distribution:

W.R.Wheel Covermaster Optimized W.

1 20 1 21

2 20 2 20

3 20 3 22

4 20 4 20

5 20 5 22

6 20 6 21

7 20 7 20

8 20 8 20

9 20 9 20

Suppose you match 5 of the wheel's 9 numbers give the next

average wins:

3 4 5

World Record Wheel 14.29 10.71 1.43

Covermaster Optimized 14.29 10.71 1.43

After comparing both wheels I have to say the optimize option of Covermaster gets wheels very similar to the world record wheels in number of tickets and in average wins..

What do you think?

Cya

Consciousness order chaos.

http://thefootballpools.blogspot.com
RJOh

100

mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
20,272 Posts
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Dec 3, 2004, 7:54 pm

It has been my experience that CoverMaster will match or come within one line of any W.R. wheel I've ever seen unless you are trying to get better coverage of the lower prizes and it only takes seconds if you're dealing with less the 15 numbers.
RJOh

* you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones *
Datenda

Pretoria
South Africa
Member #6,062
August 4, 2004
54 Posts
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Dec 6, 2004, 9:58 am

When making this wheel with Covermaster, I first managed to achieve 32 lines, then I clicked on Reset and pressed Start again - This time I achieved 31 lines. The process was repeated again and I achieved 30 lines. Here are the results:
1 4 5 6 7 9
1 2 3 4 8 9
1 3 4 6 8 9
1 3 5 6 8 9
2 3 5 6 7 9
1 3 4 6 7 8
2 3 4 5 7 8
2 4 5 7 8 9
3 4 5 6 7 9
1 2 3 6 7 9
2 4 5 6 8 9
1 2 4 5 6 8
2 4 5 6 7 8
1 3 5 6 7 8
2 3 4 5 6 8
1 2 3 4 5 6
1 2 3 4 5 9
1 2 4 6 7 9
1 2 4 5 7 8
1 3 4 7 8 9
1 2 3 4 5 7
2 3 4 6 7 9
1 2 5 6 7 9
1 2 6 7 8 9
2 3 6 7 8 9
1 2 3 6 7 8
1 3 5 7 8 9
1 2 3 5 8 9
1 3 4 5 8 9
4 5 6 7 8 9

Cheers,
Datenda

Tata Syndicate Boss
Hyperdimension

United States
Member #9,059
November 26, 2004
221 Posts
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Dec 6, 2004, 9:26 pm

Hi,

Detenda, I analyzed your optimized wheel..

The wheel has the same properties as the world record wheel, also it has the same number distribution (20 of each number) and same average wins..

This means Covermaster could generate world record wheels..

What do you think?

Cya

Consciousness order chaos.

http://thefootballpools.blogspot.com
Datenda

Pretoria
South Africa
Member #6,062
August 4, 2004
54 Posts
Offline

Dec 7, 2004, 2:02 am

Cya,
For the smaller wheels, Covermaster quite often equals world records. For most of the medium and all of the large wheels, the records are not equalled. I think the guys who have the world records for the larger wheels have their own software, which they will never part with.
Cheers,
Datenda

Tata Syndicate Boss
ExpertLotto

Trebic
Czech Republic
Member #8,380
November 3, 2004
66 Posts
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Dec 7, 2004, 6:19 am

is it a big deal to play a wheel with 33 lines instead of 30?

Expert Lotto Team
lottoarchitect

Greece
Member #2,815
November 18, 2003
502 Posts
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Dec 7, 2004, 7:05 am

Quote: Originally posted by ExpertLotto on December 7, 2004

is it a big deal to play a wheel with 33 lines instead of 30?

Quite many times I have found wheels that are smaller and offer equal or even better coverage. So what's the point to spend more and gain the same (or less sometimes)? Maybe, the difference is small here but we have only 9 numbers to wheel and the C(6,9,5,5) is a construction hard to improve more. For other categories like C(6,15,4,5), the tickets generated can have a great difference and I think most wheel users are concerned about the cost of a wheel.

If you have something to do, at least do it well...
RJOh

100

mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
20,272 Posts
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Dec 7, 2004, 2:42 pm

Quote: Originally posted by Datenda on December 7, 2004

For the smaller wheels, Covermaster quite often equals world records. For most of the medium and all of the large wheels, the records are not equalled...............

Datenda

When I've used CM on small wheels of 15 numbers or less, it has alway matched any wheel that I've found. When I tried it on larger wheels, I've never been willing to wait for it to optimize the wheel. One time I waited four hours before shutting it down. Maybe one day when I have 48hrs or so, I will try and see if it can match the WR 649 wheel which gurantees a match 3 in 161 lines.
RJOh

* you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones *
lottoarchitect

Greece
Member #2,815
November 18, 2003
502 Posts
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Dec 7, 2004, 2:47 pm

Quote: Originally posted by RJOh on December 7, 2004

When I've used CM on small wheels of 15 numbers or less, it has alway matched any wheel that I've found. When I tried it on larger wheels, I've never been willing to wait for it to optimize the wheel. One time I waited four hours before shutting it down. Maybe one day when I have 48hrs or so, I will try and see if it can match the WR 649 wheel which gurantees a match 3 in 161 lines.

To save you from the time needed for that, it does not match WR for bigger wheels. I've tried that (including optimise) and also performed several manual optimizations. No matter, WR results could not occur. However it does provide WR results for small relatively wheels.

If you have something to do, at least do it well...
RJOh

100

mid-Ohio
United States
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March 24, 2001
20,272 Posts
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Dec 7, 2004, 2:56 pm

Apagogeas,
What are the smallest number of lines you think it would list to match 3 in a 649 lottery?
RJOh

* you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones *
lottoarchitect

Greece
Member #2,815
November 18, 2003
502 Posts
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Dec 7, 2004, 3:05 pm

Current WR for 3if6/49 wheel is 163 lines. The bottom line could be around there. Small differences if we ever break this bound. I can't say really. What's the point of this question anyway?

If you have something to do, at least do it well...
RJOh

100

mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
20,272 Posts
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Dec 7, 2004, 9:09 pm

I asked the question because I was interested in knowing how close CM could come to matching a large WR wheel if allowed to complete its optimizing process.
RJOh
P.S. I confused the WR 648 wheel (161 lines) with the WR 649 wheel (163 lines)

* you don't need to buy every combination, just the winning ones *

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