On the same day state Senate leaders appointed a special committee to review the lottery bill recently passed by the House, religious leaders rallied outside the Legislative Building to convince lawmakers to reject a lottery.
"Desperate means are an easy way out, and I think the lottery is a desperate means for making finances for America," said Teresa McAllister, an elder with a Fayetteville church.
"The issue is so important to me because family is so important to me," McAllister said. "We're trying to teach the children to get an education, go to work. This is how we fund education, at the same time we're saying the easy way out is that we're not going to trust in God? Why have it on our money?"
Lottery proponents maintain a state-run game could generate up to $500 million a year for school construction, college scholarships and aid for poor school districts.
But opponents said dividing that money among 100 counties is only $5 million per county -- not even enough to pay for one new school.
"It's not a way to raise revenue. We suggested raising the taxes by 1 cent, which would give almost $900 million to the state," said Robert Lewis, pastor of Temple Baptist Church in Fayetteville.
Lewis said he ran that idea past state Sen. Tony Rand, D-Cumberland, who is chairing the 21-member lottery committee, and got a cool reception.
"Somebody may even lose their home because some daddy's going to put a lot of money in the lottery thinking, 'This is my ticket out,'" Lewis said.
Senate President Pro Tem Marc Basnight said he doesn't plan to rush a proposal through the chamber, and a vote could be a few weeks off.
The 21-member committee includes Democratic Sens. Dan Clodfelter of Mecklenburg County, Janet Cowell of Wake County and Martin Nesbitt of Buncombe County, who each have expressed reservations about a stand-alone lottery bill, as well as six Republicans.
With two additional Democrats currently opposed, Senate leaders would have some change some minds to get a bill passed the 50-seat Senate.
Senate Minority Leader Phil Berger, R-Rockingham, who also is on the committee, said he believes all 21 Republicans in the 50-seat will oppose the lottery.
Quote:Originally posted by byroan on April 13, 2005
These religious leaders need to burn in h3ll.
That is a terrible thing to say. I couldn't disagree with you stronger. That is way over-the-top, and not a good way to deal with someone who disagrees with you.
Quote:Originally posted by Todd on April 13, 2005
That is a terrible thing to say. I couldn't disagree with you stronger. That is way over-the-top, and not a good way to deal with someone who disagrees with you.
I may not like fundementalists either. But just because I disagree with them doesn't mean I think they should suffer eternity in the fiery underworld.
Quote:Originally posted by MillionsWanted on April 14, 2005
Raising taxes will never be popular so sooner or later they will get their lottery.
Money has always been important to the conservaties.
Does that mean that money is not important to the liberals? I think money is important to everyone in government, regardless of their idealogical leanings.
This is simply rediculous. Just because a Lottery comes into your state does NOT mean you have to play. If you don't agree with it, don't play it!!!! That does not mean others who do should not have the opportunity to do so. They are taking things to the extremes.
Quote:"Somebody may even lose their home because some daddy's going to put a lot of money in the lottery thinking, 'This is my ticket out,'" Lewis said.
A person could do this making bad investments, going to Vegas and gambling. A person who loses their house because they played the lottery had way more issues!!!!
These Religious Groups seem to think that GOD has appointed them as the saviours for the residents of NC from SIN,if they would CLEARLY read there Bible "NO WHERE" does it state in the 10 commandments that GAMBLING is a SIN and that's because "IT'S NOT" and why are they so concerned with GAMBLING when there are many other things that people do in that state that can be REALLY HARMFUL to others or themselves.They are always taking up a cause against something that's usually POINTLESS compared to more SERIOUS matters that they could address,what's worse GAMBLING or DRINKING? no one dies from gambling
unless they commit suicide for there LOSSES but DRINKING kills A LOT more people from Drunk Driving or Alcohol Poisoning and I do believe that Drinking Alcohol is LEGAL in NC.And by the way don't be offended by what "Byroan" said because "HELL" doesn't really exist I've done some serious research on it and finally discovered the truth.
Quote:Originally posted by Pick-4_Master on April 14, 2005
These Religious Groups seem to think that GOD has appointed them as the saviours for the residents of NC from SIN,if they would CLEARLY read there Bible "NO WHERE" does it state in the 10 commandments that GAMBLING is a SIN and that's because "IT'S NOT" and why are they so concerned with GAMBLING when there are many other things that people do in that state that can be REALLY HARMFUL to others or themselves.They are always taking up a cause against something that's usually POINTLESS compared to more SERIOUS matters that they could address,what's worse GAMBLING or DRINKING? no one dies from gambling
unless they commit suicide for there LOSSES but DRINKING kills A LOT more people from Drunk Driving or Alcohol Poisoning and I do believe that Drinking Alcohol is LEGAL in NC.And by the way don't be offended by what "Byroan" said because "HELL" doesn't really exist I've done some serious research on it and finally discovered the truth.
I'm not a Biblical scholar, but I think the Bible does mention that gambling is a sin. Not every sin is mentioned in the 10 Commandments.
Also, although I disagree with religious leaders on the issue of lotteries, I have no ill feelings about religious leaders standing up for what they think is right.
Pick4, to answer your question, I believe they think gambling is worse than drinking. I don't think that the church condones drinking to excess, but if you've ever taken or witnessed communion, you'll notice that it is done with red wine, containing alcohol. So in my opinion, alcohol is not something completely evil.
Allow religious people to have and hold their opinions, and respect them for standing up for what they think is right. Do not attempt to demonize them for advocating the way that they do. Instead, advocate your own position strongly (as I do), and people will dventually come to the right decision -- without the need to besmirch people of strong religious beliefs.
I must correct you on the issue of Gambling being a Sin my Father is A
EXTREME Bible reader and VERY religious person I challenged him to show me where it states that gambling is a SIN in the Bible, what he showed me was a scripture that "COULD BE INTERPRETED" as such it did not CLEARLY state that GAMBLING is a SIN the way Adultry is stated.Basically it made general statements as how you should trust GOD for your Financial well being or to obtain it through hard work but it never said that GOD looked upon gambling as a dIRECT SIN against him or his word.There are many things in the Bible that Religious figures or groups have "twisted" or "molded" so that it would fit there Moral convictions.Slavery in the South was backed by Biblical scriptures that were "mis-interpreted" by people who believed that it was "okay" too do based on the readings of these scriptures.This too me is the same situation regarding Gambling also too clear up my comments so they are not MIS-INTERPRETED I was just making a point I know that they believe Drinking is worse than Gambling and I don't have a problem with them standing up for there Religious Convictions I just dislike it when they feel they have too SAVE everyones Soul based on what they FEEL is a SIN or not good for Man-Kind let Man-Kind decide what's good for him not Religious Figures that try too control our GOD given right too FREE WILL.
That is all no disrespect intended just voicing my opinion the same way they do but more conservatively by not telling people WHAT and HOW they should do things in there lives.I'm not DEMONIZING them or disrespecting them I didn't say they should ROT in HELL in fact none of my comments were insulting.Religious groups do take up causes that are beneficial to Man-Kind but they also have a habit of sticking there noises in other peoples lives/business where it's not needed because there agenda isn't necessarily for man-kind but for there own beliefs and convictions.There are more serious matters plaquing Society that they could be fighting for as fierclely as they are against Gambling like Homelessenss,Child Abuse etc.... I know there are religious groups that do address these matters but they are making this Gambling thing way too important on there agenda.And maybe not all Sins are stated in the 10 Commandments but these are the Laws that Religions adhere to so if it aint in the Commandments then it isn't a Sin as far as I'm concerned.You can't take a bible passage or scripture not in the Commandments "out of context" in order too fit your beliefs which is what's been done for centuries with the Bible."Most" strong willed religious people do have a tendancy to verbally attack and condemn others that don't follow there beliefs. I "Occasionally" find some that are willing to take others opinions or differences kindly and respectfully. I will not comment any further on this subject I've said what I had too say.
I ,too have no ill feelings about people standing up for what they think is right. But when religious leaders start preaching, "their way is the only way", without anything but quotes from the bible. I get turned off real fast. You can rest assured they don't have any ideas about raising money for education or anything else. They believe they know what's right for everyone. It took years and years before the people in N.C woke up and passed the liquor laws. I was born and raised in N.C across the S.C state line. I lived in N.C and went to school in S.C. I know, for a fact, a lot of people who got killed in car accidents driving back and forth, into S.C to buy alcohol. Some of those same type of people who were against alcohol are the same type of people that are against the lottery. If the people who want a lottery are a majority, and they are willing to stand up and be counted. They will have a lottery, if not, so be it. If I still lived in N.C, you had better believe, I would be in the fight for a lottery and the hell with the "religious right". What's worse, a gambling habit or ignorance?
Maybe i missed it while reading the article, but i didn't see any mention by the Church leaders that Bingo is wrong. They never said that Bingo should not be used by churches as a method of fund raising. I know of several churches that host Bingo as a means of raising money. They also support Raffles and even erect tents and sometimes serve Beer during their various religious festivals. Am i missing something or could some Churches be competing for that same dollar that might go for an occasional lottery ticket and support for education? My brother is a pastor, so i'm certainly not against religious views being addressed. I'm certain that they mean well, but as for losing a house by playing a jackpot game ...I've played jackpot games for several years ...at times buying many tickets per draw ...and I have yet to spend enough "in total" for even half of one monthly payment on a mortgage. Playing an occasional jackpot game, with a chance to win, isn't all that expensive - and besides - the money goes for good causes.
Everything you said is your opinion. I disagree with most of it.
Also, you should consider making paragraphs when you write, because I am finding it very difficult to read everything you write when it is all mushed together, and I end up skipping large sections of it as a result. (Just some constructive criticism.)
i'd love to see a lottery in mississippi but they'd have the same problems NC is having,plus mississippi has casinos so between the church and the casino blocking it i'd say it would be a long long time before they get one if they do...
As far as I'm concerned, gambling comes under the same umbrella as alcohol and cigarettes. Why aren't those religious zealots out there banning those items from the state too!!!! Why are they so hell-bent on lottery?????
Frankly, they are so blinded by religion that they really fail to see what's really happening! NC already have a lottery!!!! They've had an underground lottery ever since I've been in diapers, and I'm waaaay over 50.
So, while religious legislative zealots are still running around preaching hell, fire and brimstone, -- billions will be funneled to Virginia, South Carolina, Tennessee and North Carolina's underground lottery system which is doing a booming business. In fact, the underground is getting ready to cross into the Pick4 business. They're growing -- thanks to religious backlash.
So whether it becomes legal or not, I'm having myself a ball...and just might consider writing a book on North Carolina's underground lottery. I've already written Govenor Easley.
Quote:Originally posted by byroan on April 13, 2005
These religious leaders need to burn in h3ll.
That is a terrible thing to say. I couldn't disagree with you stronger. That is way over-the-top, and not a good way to deal with someone who disagrees with you.
You don't live here in NC and see what's going on. Thank you.
And that's why I have no more too say on the matter besides there are members in here that seem too share my opinion so I'm not alone.Anyway Sorry for "mushing" everything together just read it in sections if you think something was overlooked I've been out of school for 20 yrs so paragraph writing isn't something I do on a regular basis.
Quote:Originally posted by byroan on April 14, 2005
Quote:Originally posted by Todd on April 13, 2005
Quote:Originally posted by byroan on April 13, 2005
These religious leaders need to burn in h3ll.
That is a terrible thing to say. I couldn't disagree with you stronger. That is way over-the-top, and not a good way to deal with someone who disagrees with you.
You don't live here in NC and see what's going on. Thank you.
I know more about this than most people who live in NC.
Quote:Originally posted by Pick-4_Master on April 14, 2005
And that's why I have no more too say on the matter besides there are members in here that seem too share my opinion so I'm not alone.Anyway Sorry for "mushing" everything together just read it in sections if you think something was overlooked I've been out of school for 20 yrs so paragraph writing isn't something I do on a regular basis.
Just press the Enter key every so often to break up your thoughts, and so that it's easier to read. (Insert some blank spaces.) No need to form perfect paragraphs, just trying to offer a tip to make it easier to read what you're saying.
I understand that there are plenty of members who have no problem bashing religious people over the head because they disagree with them. There are also several atheist members here, who make no bones about trashing religious people. I feel sad for people who follow the secular media lead and bash religion, and just because these people are vocal in their disdain doesn't make me agree with them.
This is a completely pro-lottery forum, so naturally most people here will disagree with the religious leaders who stand on their principles in opposing lotteries. Many of these people will openly bash those religious leaders, but not everyone does this (thank goodness). It is easy to bash someone who disagrees with you, but it is better to be respectful of them, and to win on the basis of a good argument, rather than besmirching the person.
Quote:Originally posted by byroan on April 14, 2005
Quote:Originally posted by Todd on April 13, 2005
Quote:Originally posted by byroan on April 13, 2005
These religious leaders need to burn in h3ll.
That is a terrible thing to say. I couldn't disagree with you stronger. That is way over-the-top, and not a good way to deal with someone who disagrees with you.
You don't live here in NC and see what's going on. Thank you.
I know more about this than most people who live in NC.
The Plain fact remains like it or not there are some who do oppose the lottery. I think NC has a tough road to go if the even get a lottery. I was amazed that SC got one so anything is possible. But if they (NC) do not get one it will not mean the end of the world.
How about you "BOTH" know what's going on "EQUALLY" but just have different OPINIONS about it because based on your knowledge or research you came to different conclusions?
Quote:Originally posted by fxdwg on April 15, 2005 The Plain fact remains like it or not there are some who do oppose the lottery. I think NC has a tough road to go if the even get a lottery. I was amazed that SC got one so anything is possible. But if they (NC) do not get one it will not mean the end of the world.
South Carolina got their lottery because it was put on the ballott for everyone to have a chance to vote their opinion.
The voters voted and the lottery was set in place.
Quote:Originally posted by Pick-4_Master on April 15, 2005
How about you "BOTH" know what's going on "EQUALLY" but just have different OPINIONS about it because based on your knowledge or research you came to different conclusions?
Well, I'm not saying that I have a different opinion. I actually agree that the religious leaders are wrong.
Where I disagree is when anyone bashes religious leaders themselves for strongly advocating their positions. Apparently, people who do this either do not believe in the afterlife, or else they feel that God will somehow give them a pass for bashing His leaders. They do not see the difference between disagreeing with someone and destroying them personally.
I also disagree with you, in that I believe I know more about the situation than that other person. I do not claim to be on equal footing with them.
I lived in N.C., a good many years and realize how strong the opposistion is from the clergy. but, just because they oppose a lottery does'nt mean i, or anyone for that matter has the right to publicly destroy thier beliefs and dictate, " where they should go". just because thier beliefs are different than others, does'nt give ANYONE the right to destroy the clergy personally.
Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion and just because thier opinion is different than others, does'nt mean they should go straight to the " devils chambers", for what they believe in.
In order for other people to respect your opinion, you first have to respect thiers, regardless whether they are in agreement or not.! I also think they are wrong for being against something that will benefit everyone in the state of N.C., but thats my opinion.
Ultimately the people of N.C. will have the final say if it goes to a ballot, and everyone else's opinion will be a thing of the past...!
Quote:Originally posted by Todd on April 15, 2005
I also disagree with you, in that I believe I know more about the situation than that other person. I do not claim to be on equal footing with them.
I disagree with you, you don't know more than me about the lottery in NC and that's a fact. Just because you're an administrator on this website doesn't mean you know everything. One day you'll realize this.
Don't worry "byroan", I am rolling my eyes back at you every time I see you have posted a new message.
Yes, I do know more about it than you. I have been in communications with multiple legislators over this issue for years. You, on the other hand, have 9 posts to your name here, with no kind of indication of your affiliation or knowledge, and your only claim to fame so far is that you enjoy taking cheap shots at the expense of your local religious leaders. A record to be proud of, to be sure.
People like you have come and gone for years. At this point, I simply roll my eyes and laugh at it.
Don't worry "byroan", I am rolling my eyes back at you every time I see you have posted a new message.
Yes, I do know more about it than you. I have been in communications with multiple legislators over this issue for years. You, on the other hand, have 9 posts to your name here, with no kind of indication of your affiliation or knowledge, and your only claim to fame so far is that you enjoy taking cheap shots at the expense of your local religious leaders. A record to be proud of, to be sure.
People like you have come and gone for years. At this point, I simply roll my eyes and laugh at it.
So because I haven't been a member on here for very long you just assume that I know nothing? You have no idea who I've been in contact with or who I know. You don't even know who I am. There's a reason people like me come and go, it's because this site is run by you.
I really do believe in the Afterlife and I don't think that GOD gives passes to Bash Religious leaders,we don't need his permission to do that and it must be said that some Religious leaders have a tendancy to "Bash" non-believers or so called "Immoral" people so too be fair about this both sides are guilty of doing this from time to time.
They imply that our wicked ways will give us a ticket straight too hell I never said they WISHED such things upon us.They just let us know that if you don't do the RIGHT things in life then that's where we are suppose too go.And you have the ones who "sometimes" get carried away with the "Hell Fire and Damnation" talk
I strongly agree with a state lottery in north carolina, I feel that it would help our poor state gain the money to help in education and many other issues. In the matter of gambling: people go to virgina and spend their money just the same, what is the difference? I see none! North Carolina needs to get current with the times and become a progressive state.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You are free to believe that. I do find it interesting that you think religious people are not "regular" people. However, statistics disagree with you: religious people are the "regular" people, and non-religious people are the minority.
Well, first let's consider why North Carolina politicians support a lottery for their state. Aside from the "keep up with the Joneses" mentality which seems to permeate state legislatures recently, we must also consider the additional revenue stream provided to any state by its lottery. We must consider it because, prior to 1964, when New Hampshire began the state lottery parade, all states were apparently flat broke. Thank God for the lottery, which temporarily fills the gaps and gives lawmakers some relief from not having a tax base sufficient to cover their spending habits.
When a wad of tax money is held before a legislator, the Pavlovian Response is irrepressible, and he will begin to drool as images of lobbyists, special-interest groups and nepotism dance through his little head. Once he gets his grubby mitts on it, though, it seems to disappear at an alarming rate and, before you know it, your legislator is standing before you with a new tax bill in his hand, asking for a raise in his allowance. If you try to teach him some responsibility by refusing to indulge him, he will sulk with his friends until midnight, when the bill is pushed through in secret. The next morning, as he empties your wallet of any cash you've managed to secrete from him, he tells you, "This is really an important bill, so we had to pass it for your own good. After all, you elected me to represent your interests, and I intend to do just that, even if it means you have to get a second job."
A state lottery is essentially a cash monopoly which, by law, will not abide any competition. The amounts of money raised by such a popular and uncontested enterprise should be enough to benefit all resident citizens, not just a select few here and there, and should not exclude certain groups in favor of others. It should also be sufficient to relieve the tax burden of every resident but, somehow, it's never enough. While I am pro-lottery, I think the religious leaders have a point. The North Carolina legislators can only see the money, but the religious leaders can see the greed, corruption and personal ruin which will inevitably visit some weak-minded constituents.
This country is quickly losing its collective conscience, as we move more and more to an attitude of individualism at the expense of the common good. We see news reports every day of embezzlement, mismanagement and outright theft. Our policemen, lawmakers, priests, judges and many other icons of honesty and integrity have succumbed to self-indulgence in such numbers that we are beginning to condone this phenomenon as ordinary and acceptable, indeed expected, behavior. Knowing what I know now, I would vehemently oppose any legislation to create a lottery in Indiana, if one did not already exist.
To close, I'll address the issue of gambling as a sin. Pick-4_Master is correct; there is nothing in the Bible, anywhere, in either testament, which specifically prohibits gambling of any type, on any scale. However, greed is covered quite extensively, and I don't think anyone here can deny that this is what motivates any gambler.
Now, if you'll all excuse me, I'm late for my poker game.
Well "jim695" I'm glad someone in here is listening to me about Sin and Gambling but I must comment on your statement about GREED it doesn't motivate ALL gamblers maybe a good number of them but not all.Me and a group of my friends enjoy playing Lottery games.Not because of GREED but because of the CHALLENGE and EXCITEMENT of winning, the MONEY is a given so there's no need to be GREEDY about it.Besides being greedy to me means not wanting to share when you have plenty to go around and just want it all too yourself.As we all know when you WIN a jackpot in any Lottery game everyone gets some of the PIE if there's more than 1 winner so whether you split the money from the POT or each recieve the same amount like in the (Pick-3/4) everyone that hit get's paid.Now if you try too TAKE money from the other winners as well like say in a Lottery Pool then that's being GREEDY.But GOD won't send you too HELL for that so don't worry you'll just lose a lot of friends and probably get a BEAT down or wind up in court.
I wasn't saying that Religious people were a minority or anything I was just stating that GOD does not Favor Religious people over Regular people.
And what I mean by Regular people are those that do things based on desire not religious beliefs or convictions.There are many people that Love and Believe in GOD that aren't religious they consider themselves spiritual,
Religious people follow Religions Rules and Biblical Laws while Spiritual people follow Free Will and believe in Spiritual Freedom as long as they don't harm others PHYSICALLY or intefere with another persons FREE WILL, I'm a Spiritual person but I use to be Religious 10 yrs ago so I can honestly say that there is a difference and being Spiritual is much more rewarding (for me)
Quote:Originally posted by Pick-4_Master on April 18, 2005
I wasn't saying that Religious people were a minority or anything I was just stating that GOD does not Favor Religious people over Regular people.
First, there you go again with the "regular people" comment. Religious people ARE the regular people. The anti-religious people are the minority. Hopefully we won't have to keep covering this ground.
Second, how the heck do you know that? As far as I know, you don't have a telephone connection to God to ask Him if he's OK with you bashing His leaders. I am much more inclined to trust the word of a minister more than you as far as religious matters are concerned.
One thing is clear. Religious self appointed wise asses thinking they got the right to control the life of others and the society got to be stopped and put down.
Once again I was not stating who was a minority or a majority so please don't insist that I was I could care less if they are or not.And too clear things up for you I was just making a point by distinquishing between
Religious and Non-Religious persons I use the term Regular because Regular people don't like there lives being controlled while Religious people don't seem to mind being controlled by there beliefs."MillionsWanted" strikes me as a "Regular" person but my definition of one not yours it's just a matter of opnion and interpretation I never said that you were wrong about anything except the "Gambling is a Sin" statement which "jim695" clearly pointed out that you were mistaken by your assumption.If my "regular" people comment offended you that was not my intention through out this whole conversation I have not attacked, bashed or insulted you and I can tell you are starting to get ANNOYED or FRUSTRATED so I'm done with that part of the conversation regarding the so-called regular people I stand by my comments.I can tell you aren't really familiar with "SPIRITUAL" beliefs just "RELIGIOUS" ones
because if you were you would know that "WE" all have a Direct Line of communication with our Creator.Prayer is just one of the many forms that we have to talk to GOD,I'm quite sure that GOD did not appoint Religious leaders as SAVIOURS of our SOUL that was done a long time ago already
by GOD.You ask how do I know whether GOD favors one type of people over another? just read your BIBLE IT SAYS HE LOVES US ALL equally.I never said GOD told me it was okay to BASH anyone I just said that we don't need his permission to do so besides as far as I know I haven't BASHED anyone.Unless our defintion of the word "DIFFERS", we all do what we want good or bad because of FREE WILL GOD does not dictate what we do in our lives or interfere unless it's absolutely necessary with "Divine Intervention".I think me and you should stop discussing this matter all together any further discussion on my part will be with other members from here on out because your starting too sound like "VisionDude" .
Pick4: You're right, I think that should be it, because I really don't like your religion-bashing. It's not frustration on my part, it's disgust at anyone who bash a religious person. MillionsWanted, your statement is even worse, and doesn't even dignify a response.
I hope both of you see the error of your ways in the future.
No, I'm not following any religious leaders - are you not reading what I'm writing?? (I can answer that myself.) I do not agree with them, in fact I think they're dead wrong! Somehow, though, I can hold that opinion without the vile comments about these people [the religious leaders] who happen to have a different opinion from me. You two seem determined to attack the people themselves, stead of the views that they take. Emily is right, this is a free country, and you are free to do that. I, of course, am free to tell you that I think that kind of thing is disgusting, and your comments probably stem from a disrespect, perhaps resentment, of religion in general.
Todd why do you insist on saying that I'm attacking or bashing them? have I said anything like "Rot in Hell", "Burn at the stake" or anything describing bodily harm or death? or even that what they believe is wrong?
no I haven't your taking this way too serious I could understand if I was saying things that were OBVIOUSLY hateful and negative I was just making statements in regards to comments made about the Subject discussion.And if I had TRUE disrespect and resentment believe me you would have kicked me out of this forum by now because of the things I would have said.The only person that has a problem with my statements is you even VisionDude hasn't said anything regarding my comments so as far as I'm concerned I have done nothing wrong,disrespectful or otherwise
You don't know me personally too say that I resent Religion I just disagree with a lot of it's beliefs and have a problem with people that use the Bible for there own personal agenda.We have already established that
Gambling is not a Sin so that's why I jumped in the discussion because the Powers that Be seem to think it is when the PROOF that it's not is in the Bible.The only reason I'm responding too you this time is because you are labeling me as something I'm not and I will defend that, if what you are saying about me were true I would definitely admit it.But in this case you are just making assumptions about me based on nothing else except your disgust of what you think I've done.I haven't labeled you as anything even though I could based on what your saying but I choose not too because it's not really that important to me, so can we finally end this STUPID debate and get back to normal? ThANK YOU!!!
YOU are taking this too seriously, and you keep perpetuating this by continuing to respond over and over and over.
I got your point, I understand that you are opposed to the religious leaders in North Carolina, EVERYONE understands your point, now please just give it a rest. I will never agree with your views and treatment of religious leaders, no matter how much text you cram into one message.
And I don't check with Visiondude to see if I'm on solid footing, I am confident in my own opinion. You, however, seem to rely on what other people think.
You are wrong about me kicking out people because I disagree with them. I don't do that kind of thing. I encourage debate. Your comments show clearly that you cannot fathom the difference between debate of an issue and treatment of a person.
No I don't need anyones approval or rely on what others think because if I did I would agree with you I was just making a point as always and I don't want you too agree with me, That is all from me I'll be leaving now.(I only respond when you ATTACK me)
They must be stopped.
These religious leaders need to burn in h3ll.
That is a terrible thing to say. I couldn't disagree with you stronger. That is way over-the-top, and not a good way to deal with someone who disagrees with you.
ITS NOT A SIN WHEN YOU WIN!!!!
Raising taxes will never be popular so sooner or later they will get their lottery.
Money has always been important to the conservaties.
Does that mean that money is not important to the liberals? I think money is important to everyone in government, regardless of their idealogical leanings.
This is simply rediculous. Just because a Lottery comes into your state does NOT mean you have to play. If you don't agree with it, don't play it!!!! That does not mean others who do should not have the opportunity to do so. They are taking things to the extremes.
A person could do this making bad investments, going to Vegas and gambling. A person who loses their house because they played the lottery had way more issues!!!!
These Religious Groups seem to think that GOD has appointed them as the saviours for the residents of NC from SIN,if they would CLEARLY read there Bible "NO WHERE" does it state in the 10 commandments that GAMBLING is a SIN and that's because "IT'S NOT" and why are they so concerned with GAMBLING when there are many other things that people do in that state that can be REALLY HARMFUL to others or themselves.They are always taking up a cause against something that's usually POINTLESS compared to more SERIOUS matters that they could address,what's worse GAMBLING or DRINKING? no one dies from gambling
unless they commit suicide for there LOSSES but DRINKING kills A LOT more people from Drunk Driving or Alcohol Poisoning and I do believe that Drinking Alcohol is LEGAL in NC.And by the way don't be offended by what "Byroan" said because "HELL" doesn't really exist I've done some serious research on it and finally discovered the truth.
I'm not a Biblical scholar, but I think the Bible does mention that gambling is a sin. Not every sin is mentioned in the 10 Commandments.
Also, although I disagree with religious leaders on the issue of lotteries, I have no ill feelings about religious leaders standing up for what they think is right.
Pick4, to answer your question, I believe they think gambling is worse than drinking. I don't think that the church condones drinking to excess, but if you've ever taken or witnessed communion, you'll notice that it is done with red wine, containing alcohol. So in my opinion, alcohol is not something completely evil.
Allow religious people to have and hold their opinions, and respect them for standing up for what they think is right. Do not attempt to demonize them for advocating the way that they do. Instead, advocate your own position strongly (as I do), and people will dventually come to the right decision -- without the need to besmirch people of strong religious beliefs.
I must correct you on the issue of Gambling being a Sin my Father is A
EXTREME Bible reader and VERY religious person I challenged him to show me where it states that gambling is a SIN in the Bible, what he showed me was a scripture that "COULD BE INTERPRETED" as such it did not CLEARLY state that GAMBLING is a SIN the way Adultry is stated.Basically it made general statements as how you should trust GOD for your Financial well being or to obtain it through hard work but it never said that GOD looked upon gambling as a dIRECT SIN against him or his word.There are many things in the Bible that Religious figures or groups have "twisted" or "molded" so that it would fit there Moral convictions.Slavery in the South was backed by Biblical scriptures that were "mis-interpreted" by people who believed that it was "okay" too do based on the readings of these scriptures.This too me is the same situation regarding Gambling also too clear up my comments so they are not MIS-INTERPRETED I was just making a point I know that they believe Drinking is worse than Gambling and I don't have a problem with them standing up for there Religious Convictions I just dislike it when they feel they have too SAVE everyones Soul based on what they FEEL is a SIN or not good for Man-Kind let Man-Kind decide what's good for him not Religious Figures that try too control our GOD given right too FREE WILL.
That is all no disrespect intended just voicing my opinion the same way they do but more conservatively by not telling people WHAT and HOW they should do things in there lives.I'm not DEMONIZING them or disrespecting them I didn't say they should ROT in HELL in fact none of my comments were insulting.Religious groups do take up causes that are beneficial to Man-Kind but they also have a habit of sticking there noises in other peoples lives/business where it's not needed because there agenda isn't necessarily for man-kind but for there own beliefs and convictions.There are more serious matters plaquing Society that they could be fighting for as fierclely as they are against Gambling like Homelessenss,Child Abuse etc.... I know there are religious groups that do address these matters but they are making this Gambling thing way too important on there agenda.And maybe not all Sins are stated in the 10 Commandments but these are the Laws that Religions adhere to so if it aint in the Commandments then it isn't a Sin as far as I'm concerned.You can't take a bible passage or scripture not in the Commandments "out of context" in order too fit your beliefs which is what's been done for centuries with the Bible."Most" strong willed religious people do have a tendancy to verbally attack and condemn others that don't follow there beliefs. I "Occasionally" find some that are willing to take others opinions or differences kindly and respectfully. I will not comment any further on this subject I've said what I had too say.
I ,too have no ill feelings about people standing up for what they think is right. But when religious leaders start preaching, "their way is the only way", without anything but quotes from the bible. I get turned off real fast. You can rest assured they don't have any ideas about raising money for education or anything else. They believe they know what's right for everyone. It took years and years before the people in N.C woke up and passed the liquor laws. I was born and raised in N.C across the S.C state line. I lived in N.C and went to school in S.C. I know, for a fact, a lot of people who got killed in car accidents driving back and forth, into S.C to buy alcohol. Some of those same type of people who were against alcohol are the same type of people that are against the lottery. If the people who want a lottery are a majority, and they are willing to stand up and be counted. They will have a lottery, if not, so be it. If I still lived in N.C, you had better believe, I would be in the fight for a lottery and the hell with the "religious right". What's worse, a gambling habit or ignorance?
Carbob
Maybe i missed it while reading the article, but i didn't see any mention by the Church leaders that Bingo is wrong. They never said that Bingo should not be used by churches as a method of fund raising. I know of several churches that host Bingo as a means of raising money. They also support Raffles and even erect tents and sometimes serve Beer during their various religious festivals. Am i missing something or could some Churches be competing for that same dollar that might go for an occasional lottery ticket and support for education? My brother is a pastor, so i'm certainly not against religious views being addressed. I'm certain that they mean well, but as for losing a house by playing a jackpot game ...I've played jackpot games for several years ...at times buying many tickets per draw ...and I have yet to spend enough "in total" for even half of one monthly payment on a mortgage. Playing an occasional jackpot game, with a chance to win, isn't all that expensive - and besides - the money goes for good causes.
Pick4:
Everything you said is your opinion. I disagree with most of it.
Also, you should consider making paragraphs when you write, because I am finding it very difficult to read everything you write when it is all mushed together, and I end up skipping large sections of it as a result. (Just some constructive criticism.)
i'd love to see a lottery in mississippi but they'd have the same problems NC is having,plus mississippi has casinos so between the church and the casino blocking it i'd say it would be a long long time before they get one if they do...
As far as I'm concerned, gambling comes under the same umbrella as alcohol and cigarettes. Why aren't those religious zealots out there banning those items from the state too!!!! Why are they so hell-bent on lottery?????
Frankly, they are so blinded by religion that they really fail to see what's really happening! NC already have a lottery!!!! They've had an underground lottery ever since I've been in diapers, and I'm waaaay over 50.
So, while religious legislative zealots are still running around preaching hell, fire and brimstone, -- billions will be funneled to Virginia, South Carolina, Tennessee and North Carolina's underground lottery system which is doing a booming business. In fact, the underground is getting ready to cross into the Pick4 business. They're growing -- thanks to religious backlash.
So whether it becomes legal or not, I'm having myself a ball...and just might consider writing a book on North Carolina's underground lottery. I've already written Govenor Easley.
You don't live here in NC and see what's going on. Thank you.
And that's why I have no more too say on the matter besides there are members in here that seem too share my opinion so I'm not alone.Anyway Sorry for "mushing" everything together just read it in sections if you think something was overlooked I've been out of school for 20 yrs so paragraph writing isn't something I do on a regular basis.
Just press the Enter key every so often to break up your thoughts, and so that it's easier to read. (Insert some blank spaces.) No need to form perfect paragraphs, just trying to offer a tip to make it easier to read what you're saying.
I understand that there are plenty of members who have no problem bashing religious people over the head because they disagree with them. There are also several atheist members here, who make no bones about trashing religious people. I feel sad for people who follow the secular media lead and bash religion, and just because these people are vocal in their disdain doesn't make me agree with them.
This is a completely pro-lottery forum, so naturally most people here will disagree with the religious leaders who stand on their principles in opposing lotteries. Many of these people will openly bash those religious leaders, but not everyone does this (thank goodness). It is easy to bash someone who disagrees with you, but it is better to be respectful of them, and to win on the basis of a good argument, rather than besmirching the person.
If you say so.
I do say so, because it's true.
I respect everybody's opinion.
The Plain fact remains like it or not there are some who do oppose the lottery. I think NC has a tough road to go if the even get a lottery. I was amazed that SC got one so anything is possible. But if they (NC) do not get one it will not mean the end of the world.
You might know more then most people, but you don't know more about it then me.
Yes I do.
How about you "BOTH" know what's going on "EQUALLY" but just have different OPINIONS about it because based on your knowledge or research you came to different conclusions?
The voters voted and the lottery was set in place.
Hopefully NC will get too do the same
Well, I'm not saying that I have a different opinion. I actually agree that the religious leaders are wrong.
Where I disagree is when anyone bashes religious leaders themselves for strongly advocating their positions. Apparently, people who do this either do not believe in the afterlife, or else they feel that God will somehow give them a pass for bashing His leaders. They do not see the difference between disagreeing with someone and destroying them personally.
I also disagree with you, in that I believe I know more about the situation than that other person. I do not claim to be on equal footing with them.
I lived in N.C., a good many years and realize how strong the opposistion is from the clergy. but, just because they oppose a lottery does'nt mean i, or anyone for that matter has the right to publicly destroy thier beliefs and dictate, " where they should go". just because thier beliefs are different than others, does'nt give ANYONE the right to destroy the clergy personally.
Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion and just because thier opinion is different than others, does'nt mean they should go straight to the " devils chambers", for what they believe in.
In order for other people to respect your opinion, you first have to respect thiers, regardless whether they are in agreement or not.! I also think they are wrong for being against something that will benefit everyone in the state of N.C., but thats my opinion.
Ultimately the people of N.C. will have the final say if it goes to a ballot, and everyone else's opinion will be a thing of the past...!
I disagree with you, you don't know more than me about the lottery in NC and that's a fact. Just because you're an administrator on this website doesn't mean you know everything. One day you'll realize this.
Don't worry "byroan", I am rolling my eyes back at you every time I see you have posted a new message.
Yes, I do know more about it than you. I have been in communications with multiple legislators over this issue for years. You, on the other hand, have 9 posts to your name here, with no kind of indication of your affiliation or knowledge, and your only claim to fame so far is that you enjoy taking cheap shots at the expense of your local religious leaders. A record to be proud of, to be sure.
People like you have come and gone for years. At this point, I simply roll my eyes and laugh at it.
So because I haven't been a member on here for very long you just assume that I know nothing? You have no idea who I've been in contact with or who I know. You don't even know who I am. There's a reason people like me come and go, it's because this site is run by you.
Good one.
I really do believe in the Afterlife and I don't think that GOD gives passes to Bash Religious leaders,we don't need his permission to do that and it must be said that some Religious leaders have a tendancy to "Bash" non-believers or so called "Immoral" people so too be fair about this both sides are guilty of doing this from time to time.
I have rarely heard religious leaders wishing non-believers to go to hell. They normally to try "save" such people rather than hope they go to hell.
They imply that our wicked ways will give us a ticket straight too hell I never said they WISHED such things upon us.They just let us know that if you don't do the RIGHT things in life then that's where we are suppose too go.And you have the ones who "sometimes" get carried away with the "Hell Fire and Damnation" talk
I strongly agree with a state lottery in north carolina, I feel that it would help our poor state gain the money to help in education and many other issues. In the matter of gambling: people go to virgina and spend their money just the same, what is the difference? I see none! North Carolina needs to get current with the times and become a progressive state.
Jason
A M E N...Jason
i think we need a lottery,to fund our schools,roadsand our vets.
The religious right may be losing this battle.
Oh Well, you win some you lose some besides GOD doesn't FAVOR
RELIGIOUS people over REGULAR people Good or Bad.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You are free to believe that. I do find it interesting that you think religious people are not "regular" people. However, statistics disagree with you: religious people are the "regular" people, and non-religious people are the minority.
Well, first let's consider why North Carolina politicians support a lottery for their state. Aside from the "keep up with the Joneses" mentality which seems to permeate state legislatures recently, we must also consider the additional revenue stream provided to any state by its lottery. We must consider it because, prior to 1964, when New Hampshire began the state lottery parade, all states were apparently flat broke. Thank God for the lottery, which temporarily fills the gaps and gives lawmakers some relief from not having a tax base sufficient to cover their spending habits.
When a wad of tax money is held before a legislator, the Pavlovian Response is irrepressible, and he will begin to drool as images of lobbyists, special-interest groups and nepotism dance through his little head. Once he gets his grubby mitts on it, though, it seems to disappear at an alarming rate and, before you know it, your legislator is standing before you with a new tax bill in his hand, asking for a raise in his allowance. If you try to teach him some responsibility by refusing to indulge him, he will sulk with his friends until midnight, when the bill is pushed through in secret. The next morning, as he empties your wallet of any cash you've managed to secrete from him, he tells you, "This is really an important bill, so we had to pass it for your own good. After all, you elected me to represent your interests, and I intend to do just that, even if it means you have to get a second job."
A state lottery is essentially a cash monopoly which, by law, will not abide any competition. The amounts of money raised by such a popular and uncontested enterprise should be enough to benefit all resident citizens, not just a select few here and there, and should not exclude certain groups in favor of others. It should also be sufficient to relieve the tax burden of every resident but, somehow, it's never enough. While I am pro-lottery, I think the religious leaders have a point. The North Carolina legislators can only see the money, but the religious leaders can see the greed, corruption and personal ruin which will inevitably visit some weak-minded constituents.
This country is quickly losing its collective conscience, as we move more and more to an attitude of individualism at the expense of the common good. We see news reports every day of embezzlement, mismanagement and outright theft. Our policemen, lawmakers, priests, judges and many other icons of honesty and integrity have succumbed to self-indulgence in such numbers that we are beginning to condone this phenomenon as ordinary and acceptable, indeed expected, behavior. Knowing what I know now, I would vehemently oppose any legislation to create a lottery in Indiana, if one did not already exist.
To close, I'll address the issue of gambling as a sin. Pick-4_Master is correct; there is nothing in the Bible, anywhere, in either testament, which specifically prohibits gambling of any type, on any scale. However, greed is covered quite extensively, and I don't think anyone here can deny that this is what motivates any gambler.
Now, if you'll all excuse me, I'm late for my poker game.
Well "jim695" I'm glad someone in here is listening to me about Sin and Gambling but I must comment on your statement about GREED it doesn't motivate ALL gamblers maybe a good number of them but not all.Me and a group of my friends enjoy playing Lottery games.Not because of GREED but because of the CHALLENGE and EXCITEMENT of winning, the MONEY is a given so there's no need to be GREEDY about it.Besides being greedy to me means not wanting to share when you have plenty to go around and just want it all too yourself.As we all know when you WIN a jackpot in any Lottery game everyone gets some of the PIE if there's more than 1 winner so whether you split the money from the POT or each recieve the same amount like in the (Pick-3/4) everyone that hit get's paid.Now if you try too TAKE money from the other winners as well like say in a Lottery Pool then that's being GREEDY.But GOD won't send you too HELL for that so don't worry you'll just lose a lot of friends and probably get a BEAT down or wind up in court.
I wasn't saying that Religious people were a minority or anything I was just stating that GOD does not Favor Religious people over Regular people.
And what I mean by Regular people are those that do things based on desire not religious beliefs or convictions.There are many people that Love and Believe in GOD that aren't religious they consider themselves spiritual,
Religious people follow Religions Rules and Biblical Laws while Spiritual people follow Free Will and believe in Spiritual Freedom as long as they don't harm others PHYSICALLY or intefere with another persons FREE WILL, I'm a Spiritual person but I use to be Religious 10 yrs ago so I can honestly say that there is a difference and being Spiritual is much more rewarding (for me)
First, there you go again with the "regular people" comment. Religious people ARE the regular people. The anti-religious people are the minority. Hopefully we won't have to keep covering this ground.
Second, how the heck do you know that? As far as I know, you don't have a telephone connection to God to ask Him if he's OK with you bashing His leaders. I am much more inclined to trust the word of a minister more than you as far as religious matters are concerned.
One thing is clear. Religious self appointed wise asses thinking they got the right to control the life of others and the society got to be stopped and put down.
Once again I was not stating who was a minority or a majority so please don't insist that I was I could care less if they are or not.And too clear things up for you I was just making a point by distinquishing between
Religious and Non-Religious persons I use the term Regular because Regular people don't like there lives being controlled while Religious people don't seem to mind being controlled by there beliefs."MillionsWanted" strikes me as a "Regular" person but my definition of one not yours it's just a matter of opnion and interpretation I never said that you were wrong about anything except the "Gambling is a Sin" statement which "jim695" clearly pointed out that you were mistaken by your assumption.If my "regular" people comment offended you that was not my intention through out this whole conversation I have not attacked, bashed or insulted you and I can tell you are starting to get ANNOYED or FRUSTRATED so I'm done with that part of the conversation regarding the so-called regular people I stand by my comments.I can tell you aren't really familiar with "SPIRITUAL" beliefs just "RELIGIOUS" ones
because if you were you would know that "WE" all have a Direct Line of communication with our Creator.Prayer is just one of the many forms that we have to talk to GOD,I'm quite sure that GOD did not appoint Religious leaders as SAVIOURS of our SOUL that was done a long time ago already
by GOD.You ask how do I know whether GOD favors one type of people over another? just read your BIBLE IT SAYS HE LOVES US ALL equally.I never said GOD told me it was okay to BASH anyone I just said that we don't need his permission to do so besides as far as I know I haven't BASHED anyone.Unless our defintion of the word "DIFFERS", we all do what we want good or bad because of FREE WILL GOD does not dictate what we do in our lives or interfere unless it's absolutely necessary with "Divine Intervention".I think me and you should stop discussing this matter all together any further discussion on my part will be with other members from here on out because your starting too sound like "VisionDude" .
Pick4: You're right, I think that should be it, because I really don't like your religion-bashing. It's not frustration on my part, it's disgust at anyone who bash a religious person. MillionsWanted, your statement is even worse, and doesn't even dignify a response.
I hope both of you see the error of your ways in the future.
different view points - we're all entitled to have them. free country .
The Future is NOW and I still don't see any errors on my part!!!!!
Me neither.
What's wrong with people these days?
Following their religious leaders like sheep with no brains.
No, I'm not following any religious leaders - are you not reading what I'm writing?? (I can answer that myself.) I do not agree with them, in fact I think they're dead wrong! Somehow, though, I can hold that opinion without the vile comments about these people [the religious leaders] who happen to have a different opinion from me. You two seem determined to attack the people themselves, stead of the views that they take. Emily is right, this is a free country, and you are free to do that. I, of course, am free to tell you that I think that kind of thing is disgusting, and your comments probably stem from a disrespect, perhaps resentment, of religion in general.
Todd why do you insist on saying that I'm attacking or bashing them? have I said anything like "Rot in Hell", "Burn at the stake" or anything describing bodily harm or death? or even that what they believe is wrong?
no I haven't your taking this way too serious I could understand if I was saying things that were OBVIOUSLY hateful and negative I was just making statements in regards to comments made about the Subject discussion.And if I had TRUE disrespect and resentment believe me you would have kicked me out of this forum by now because of the things I would have said.The only person that has a problem with my statements is you even VisionDude hasn't said anything regarding my comments so as far as I'm concerned I have done nothing wrong,disrespectful or otherwise
You don't know me personally too say that I resent Religion I just disagree with a lot of it's beliefs and have a problem with people that use the Bible for there own personal agenda.We have already established that
Gambling is not a Sin so that's why I jumped in the discussion because the Powers that Be seem to think it is when the PROOF that it's not is in the Bible.The only reason I'm responding too you this time is because you are labeling me as something I'm not and I will defend that, if what you are saying about me were true I would definitely admit it.But in this case you are just making assumptions about me based on nothing else except your disgust of what you think I've done.I haven't labeled you as anything even though I could based on what your saying but I choose not too because it's not really that important to me, so can we finally end this STUPID debate and get back to normal? ThANK YOU!!!
Pick4,
YOU are taking this too seriously, and you keep perpetuating this by continuing to respond over and over and over.
I got your point, I understand that you are opposed to the religious leaders in North Carolina, EVERYONE understands your point, now please just give it a rest. I will never agree with your views and treatment of religious leaders, no matter how much text you cram into one message.
And I don't check with Visiondude to see if I'm on solid footing, I am confident in my own opinion. You, however, seem to rely on what other people think.
You are wrong about me kicking out people because I disagree with them. I don't do that kind of thing. I encourage debate. Your comments show clearly that you cannot fathom the difference between debate of an issue and treatment of a person.
No I don't need anyones approval or rely on what others think because if I did I would agree with you I was just making a point as always and I don't want you too agree with me, That is all from me I'll be leaving now.(I only respond when you ATTACK me)
Yes "Casting Of Lots" is where the word "Lottery" came from (Lots) so in a way the Bible was the basis or start of our modern day Lotteries.
so i'm not sinning after all.....