The lure of quick cash from someone else's winning lottery ticket now has three women facing some serious charges, after their alleged plan proved to be very unlucky.
Imagine you just found out you won $25,000 in the lottery. You get a receipt — but in your haste, you actually leave the ticket at the store. And when you got back, it is gone. Well, that is just what happened to a 24-year-old Tina-Marie Ware from Rensselaer. She kept looking and looking — and finally, needed the State Police to help unravel the mystery.
It began with a woman buying a series of New York State Lottery tickets, for the "Raffles to Riches" numbers game. Each cost $20. When she came to the Mobil "On the Run" in East Greenbush to see if she won, the clerk, Kirstin Von Borstel confirmed she had — $25,000. The winner left with a receipt, but not the winning ticket.
A short time later, she came back, talked again to the 20-year-old clerk, and then another clerk, 21-year-old Kelly Clifford.
"She was real adamant that 'we gotta' find that ticket, we gotta find that ticket, it's in the trash'," says Tom Beauter, who was in the store at the time. "I mean, would you go dumpster diving? For $25,000, I might...well yea, exactly."
Ware was adamant, so both she and Clifford actually jumped in to the dumpster, and pulled out bags, looking for the ticket. They did it not once, but twice.
"We had two clerks that worked in cahoots with each other that evening, and gave us some misinformation on where the ticket may have ended up," says Tom Constantine, with Red-Kap Sales, Inc.
Constantine is the regional manager and a former police officer. What he did not know at the time was that Clifford found the ticket. State Police say Clifford convinced Von Borstel to get her roommate, 30-year-old Tracy McCarty, to cash the ticket the next day and split the money — $18,000 after taxes. And when the real winner went to lottery headquarters, the plan was all but over.
"New York State Lottery and the GTECH, their parent security firm — it's impenetrable, there's no way that anyone's going to get away with cashing a lottery ticket of that sum and get away with it," Constantine says.
"All three of them spent the money very quickly, or put it in a bank account very quickly," says State Police Trooper Maureen Tuffey.
But police have only found less than $500.
"Very little bit right now has been recovered, though we do anticipate recovering just about all of it," Trooper Tuffey says.
Both clerks have been fired. State Police say they each got $7,500, and the roommate got $3,000 for her troubles. Clifford also faces drug charges. She was found with 54 hydrocodone pills and no prescription.
Well there you go . Woman Leaves $25,000 winning lotto ticket with store clerks DUHHH, what do you think is gonna happen ? I think it's her own fault for getting herself into such a mess. Why would she leave a winning ticket THERE ? Makes no sense.
Quote: Originally posted by sector46 on Jul 19, 2007
Well there you go . Woman Leaves $25,000 winning lotto ticket with store clerks DUHHH, what do you think is gonna happen ? I think it's her own fault for getting herself into such a mess. Why would she leave a winning ticket THERE ? Makes no sense.
I think they need to print in big bold letters "do not leave at store with the clerk if you have a winning ticket" so folks like me will not be fooled. Everytime I have a winning ticket they keep the thing. I would think they were suppose to keep that one too., but only if I got the MONEY in my hand in exchange. Not a receipt.
I know this sounds cruel, but if the ticket was left on the counter, and it was not signed, then I'd say too damn bad. If I was charged with stealing it, I would sue the police for false charges.
Quote: Originally posted by rdc137 on Jul 19, 2007
I know this sounds cruel, but if the ticket was left on the counter, and it was not signed, then I'd say too damn bad. If I was charged with stealing it, I would sue the police for false charges.
Bottom line: He who signs it first keeps it.
1. transitive and intransitive verb take something unlawfully: to take something that belongs to somebody else, illegally or without the owner's permission
That lawsuit would be thrown out because the clerks knew it was her ticket so it was stealing. I think it would have been a difference if someone had come into the store and got all the trash looking for winning tickets that people throw away by accident it would have been more difficult for the actual winner. I'm thinking once you've thrown it away you give up ownership of it, but having a receipt could still prove the ownership. I've seen people go to the store and get the lottery trash to take somewhere and go thru it.
Quote: Originally posted by KY Floyd on Jul 18, 2007
They're not thieves. They found an unsigned winning ticket that had been lost. Almost everyone here knows that makes them the rightful owners.
This is totally different. They knew that the person got a receipt and willingly tried to cash the scratch ticket anyway.
That dicussion forum post was about finding a ticket by itself, not having a clue as to who lost it.
If I worked at a store and knowingly checked a winning ticket to be a winner, and saw the ticket left on the counter, i would be downright foolish to try cashing it in. That's just dumb.
Quote: Originally posted by pacattack05 on Jul 21, 2007
This is totally different. They knew that the person got a receipt and willingly tried to cash the scratch ticket anyway.
That dicussion forum post was about finding a ticket by itself, not having a clue as to who lost it.
If I worked at a store and knowingly checked a winning ticket to be a winner, and saw the ticket left on the counter, i would be downright foolish to try cashing it in. That's just dumb.
No comparison. Nice try though....
There's absolutely nothing different here. The ticket is a bearer instrument. It says so right on the back. I know because I've ben told over and over and over. I've also been told over and over and over that a bearer instrument belongs to the person who has it. Somebody found a bearer instrument. They didn't steal it. They found it after it was lost by the person who owned it before losing it. The only choices are that it belongs to them because it's a bearer instrument, or simply having possession of a bearer instrument doesn't make it yours.
Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on Jul 19, 2007
It's her own fault.
Imagine you just found out you won $25,000 in the lottery. You get a receipt — but in your haste, you actually leave the ticket at the store.
Disagree. In fact, if she got a receipt for the winning ticket after validation, how did the clerks cash it in at Lottery Headquarters?
I'm not stupid, but am I missing something here? When you scan a ticket, doesn't it have a bar code that is read? Then the terminal indicates "winner or no winner" so how can it be scanned and processed AFTER a receipt has been issued for the same ticket?
American Heritage Dictionary:
re·ceipt (ri-set') n.
"A written acknowledgment that a specified article, sum of money, or shipment of merchandise has been received."
If I went into a store and got $70 for 4/6 number in Lotto, even if I got the ticket back, I wouldn't be able to collect another $70 because that ticket had been scanned and paid. What good is a receipt showing you won $25,000 if anyone else can cash it in without the receipt or another receipt can be printed?
Please explain. I think the New York Lottery owes this woman the entire $25,000 prize. Didn't she do exactly what she was supposed to do, that is, go to a retailer and validate the ticket? Sure she should have taken the ticket, but we all do mindless things when we are excited. We wouldn't be human if we didn't. Don't blame the victim in this case.
Quote: Originally posted by justxploring on Jul 23, 2007
Imagine you just found out you won $25,000 in the lottery. You get a receipt — but in your haste, you actually leave the ticket at the store.
Disagree. In fact, if she got a receipt for the winning ticket after validation, how did the clerks cash it in at Lottery Headquarters?
I'm not stupid, but am I missing something here? When you scan a ticket, doesn't it have a bar code that is read? Then the terminal indicates "winner or no winner" so how can it be scanned and processed AFTER a receipt has been issued for the same ticket?
American Heritage Dictionary:
re·ceipt (ri-set') n.
"A written acknowledgment that a specified article, sum of money, or shipment of merchandise has been received."
If I went into a store and got $70 for 4/6 number in Lotto, even if I got the ticket back, I wouldn't be able to collect another $70 because that ticket had been scanned and paid. What good is a receipt showing you won $25,000 if anyone else can cash it in without the receipt or another receipt can be printed?
Please explain. I think the New York Lottery owes this woman the entire $25,000 prize. Didn't she do exactly what she was supposed to do, that is, go to a retailer and validate the ticket? Sure she should have taken the ticket, but we all do mindless things when we are excited. We wouldn't be human if we didn't. Don't blame the victim in this case.
The ticket wasn't paid, so it was still a valid ticket that was payable at one of the lottery's offices. Past stories indicate that sometimes when a store clerk only checks a winning ticket they can void it as if it had been paid, but that can't be done for a ticket that has to be redeemed at a lottery office unless there's something seriously wrong with the system. As far as the "receipt," you obviously don't leave an unpaid ticket at a store that can't pay it (at least not deliberately), so what would you get a receipt for? Lottery retailers have claim forms for tickets that can't be redeemed at the store, and it's possible that the form can be printed with some information indicating that the ticket was checked and appears to be a winner. Perhaps that's what the the woman got. At any rate, whatever she may have gotten from the store didn't invalidate the ticket and wasn't necessary for submitting the ticket and claiming the prize.
Okay, then perhaps the article was referring to something other than an actual receipt for the prize. It just doesn't sound as if the Lottery Office did its homework before paying off the clerks. After all, how would the thieves know where it was originally purchased? The article indicates to me that the ticket wasn't purchased at the Mobil Station, just that the woman walked in to check them. The article reads: New York State Lottery and the GTECH, their parent security firm — it's impenetrable, there's no way that anyone's going to get away with cashing a lottery ticket of that sum and get away with it," This statement doesn't make any sense to me. Why cash the ticket in the first place? It sounds as if they did get away with it, only the real winner came forward to complain. Maybe that's when they began to do their investigation and ask questions. Just sounded to me like a screw up on the Lottery's part.
Quote: Originally posted by justxploring on Jul 24, 2007
Okay, then perhaps the article was referring to something other than an actual receipt for the prize. It just doesn't sound as if the Lottery Office did its homework before paying off the clerks. After all, how would the thieves know where it was originally purchased? The article indicates to me that the ticket wasn't purchased at the Mobil Station, just that the woman walked in to check them. The article reads: New York State Lottery and the GTECH, their parent security firm — it's impenetrable, there's no way that anyone's going to get away with cashing a lottery ticket of that sum and get away with it," This statement doesn't make any sense to me. Why cash the ticket in the first place? It sounds as if they did get away with it, only the real winner came forward to complain. Maybe that's when they began to do their investigation and ask questions. Just sounded to me like a screw up on the Lottery's part.
Welcome to the world of news reporting. She definitely didn't buy the ticket during that visit, because it's a raffle game, but there's nothing in the article to suggest she did or didn't buy it there when they were on sale. Perhaps she mentioned where she bought it, perhaps the lottery didn't bother asking, or perhaps they claimed it was a gift.
IMHO, the NY lottery has at least one huge flaw in their security procedures for online games. The exact time the ticket is issued is printed on the ticket. There's also an identification number that indicates which retailer. That info will all be in the database on the lottery's computers, so there's absolutely no reason to have that info printed clearly on the ticket. As a prevention against forgery the tickets already have info that's specific to that ticket. It's obviously possible for somebody to receive a winning ticket as a gift from somebody they don't really know, so the claimant can't be required to know when and where the ticket was bought, but the lottery can afford to be slightly suspicious about those cases.
I agree that the bit about the security being impenetrable doesn't make sense. This story is a good example of the real reason that the tickets warn that they are bearer instruments. The lottery has no idea who bought a winning ticket so there is a presumption that the person presenting a ticket to claim a prize is the owner. Most of the time that will be true, but now and then the person claiming the ticket won't be the owner, and the lottery usually won't have any way of knowing. Again, the story isn't very clear, but it sounds like the clerks acknowledged that the woman had presented the winning ticket to have it checked. If they had simply denied the woman's claims she may not have had any way to prove that the ticket was hers. Of course the clerks haven't gone to trial and after talking with a lawyer their version may well change.
Stupid Is As Stupid Does!
They are what they did!
And, as Ron White says : You can't fix stupid.
im glad they caught these thieves
They're not thieves. They found an unsigned winning ticket that had been lost. Almost everyone here knows that makes them the rightful owners.
Well there you go . Woman Leaves $25,000 winning lotto ticket with store clerks DUHHH, what do you think is gonna happen ? I think it's her own fault for getting herself into such a mess. Why would she leave a winning ticket THERE ? Makes no sense.
Maybe she was taken hydrocodone pill.
I read the Clerk was caught with the drugs, not the ticket buyer
I think they need to print in big bold letters "do not leave at store with the clerk if you have a winning ticket" so folks like me will not be fooled. Everytime I have a winning ticket they keep the thing. I would think they were suppose to keep that one too., but only if I got the MONEY in my hand in exchange. Not a receipt.
I know this sounds cruel, but if the ticket was left on the counter, and it was not signed, then I'd say too damn bad. If I was charged with stealing it, I would sue the police for false charges.
Bottom line: He who signs it first keeps it.
It's her own fault.
1. transitive and intransitive verb take something unlawfully: to take something that belongs to somebody else, illegally or without the owner's permission
That lawsuit would be thrown out because the clerks knew it was her ticket so it was stealing. I think it would have been a difference if someone had come into the store and got all the trash looking for winning tickets that people throw away by accident it would have been more difficult for the actual winner. I'm thinking once you've thrown it away you give up ownership of it, but having a receipt could still prove the ownership. I've seen people go to the store and get the lottery trash to take somewhere and go thru it.
This is totally different. They knew that the person got a receipt and willingly tried to cash the scratch ticket anyway.
That dicussion forum post was about finding a ticket by itself, not having a clue as to who lost it.
If I worked at a store and knowingly checked a winning ticket to be a winner, and saw the ticket left on the counter, i would be downright foolish to try cashing it in. That's just dumb.
No comparison. Nice try though....
Thank you Pacattack05 for clarifying the difference. Some folks just needed a refresher course.
-Receipt claim adds fuel to the ladys rightfull claim.
There's absolutely nothing different here. The ticket is a bearer instrument. It says so right on the back. I know because I've ben told over and over and over. I've also been told over and over and over that a bearer instrument belongs to the person who has it. Somebody found a bearer instrument. They didn't steal it. They found it after it was lost by the person who owned it before losing it. The only choices are that it belongs to them because it's a bearer instrument, or simply having possession of a bearer instrument doesn't make it yours.
Imagine you just found out you won $25,000 in the lottery. You get a receipt — but in your haste, you actually leave the ticket at the store.
Disagree. In fact, if she got a receipt for the winning ticket after validation, how did the clerks cash it in at Lottery Headquarters?
I'm not stupid, but am I missing something here? When you scan a ticket, doesn't it have a bar code that is read? Then the terminal indicates "winner or no winner" so how can it be scanned and processed AFTER a receipt has been issued for the same ticket?
American Heritage Dictionary:
re·ceipt (ri-set') n.
"A written acknowledgment that a specified article, sum of money, or shipment of merchandise has been received."
If I went into a store and got $70 for 4/6 number in Lotto, even if I got the ticket back, I wouldn't be able to collect another $70 because that ticket had been scanned and paid. What good is a receipt showing you won $25,000 if anyone else can cash it in without the receipt or another receipt can be printed?
Please explain. I think the New York Lottery owes this woman the entire $25,000 prize. Didn't she do exactly what she was supposed to do, that is, go to a retailer and validate the ticket? Sure she should have taken the ticket, but we all do mindless things when we are excited. We wouldn't be human if we didn't. Don't blame the victim in this case.
Let's think about this, given the info in the OP.
If the whole thing is on surveillance tapes, the clerks acknowledged the ticket was a winner, thus they know that the player was the rightful winner.
Having that knowledge, the player wins the money, and the clerk and accomplices crank out license plates.
This is goung to be another one of those threads where, if the people saying "It's her fault" were her, they'd be screaming like banshees.
The ticket wasn't paid, so it was still a valid ticket that was payable at one of the lottery's offices. Past stories indicate that sometimes when a store clerk only checks a winning ticket they can void it as if it had been paid, but that can't be done for a ticket that has to be redeemed at a lottery office unless there's something seriously wrong with the system. As far as the "receipt," you obviously don't leave an unpaid ticket at a store that can't pay it (at least not deliberately), so what would you get a receipt for? Lottery retailers have claim forms for tickets that can't be redeemed at the store, and it's possible that the form can be printed with some information indicating that the ticket was checked and appears to be a winner. Perhaps that's what the the woman got. At any rate, whatever she may have gotten from the store didn't invalidate the ticket and wasn't necessary for submitting the ticket and claiming the prize.
Okay, then perhaps the article was referring to something other than an actual receipt for the prize. It just doesn't sound as if the Lottery Office did its homework before paying off the clerks. After all, how would the thieves know where it was originally purchased? The article indicates to me that the ticket wasn't purchased at the Mobil Station, just that the woman walked in to check them. The article reads: New York State Lottery and the GTECH, their parent security firm — it's impenetrable, there's no way that anyone's going to get away with cashing a lottery ticket of that sum and get away with it," This statement doesn't make any sense to me. Why cash the ticket in the first place? It sounds as if they did get away with it, only the real winner came forward to complain. Maybe that's when they began to do their investigation and ask questions. Just sounded to me like a screw up on the Lottery's part.
Welcome to the world of news reporting. She definitely didn't buy the ticket during that visit, because it's a raffle game, but there's nothing in the article to suggest she did or didn't buy it there when they were on sale. Perhaps she mentioned where she bought it, perhaps the lottery didn't bother asking, or perhaps they claimed it was a gift.
IMHO, the NY lottery has at least one huge flaw in their security procedures for online games. The exact time the ticket is issued is printed on the ticket. There's also an identification number that indicates which retailer. That info will all be in the database on the lottery's computers, so there's absolutely no reason to have that info printed clearly on the ticket. As a prevention against forgery the tickets already have info that's specific to that ticket. It's obviously possible for somebody to receive a winning ticket as a gift from somebody they don't really know, so the claimant can't be required to know when and where the ticket was bought, but the lottery can afford to be slightly suspicious about those cases.
I agree that the bit about the security being impenetrable doesn't make sense. This story is a good example of the real reason that the tickets warn that they are bearer instruments. The lottery has no idea who bought a winning ticket so there is a presumption that the person presenting a ticket to claim a prize is the owner. Most of the time that will be true, but now and then the person claiming the ticket won't be the owner, and the lottery usually won't have any way of knowing. Again, the story isn't very clear, but it sounds like the clerks acknowledged that the woman had presented the winning ticket to have it checked. If they had simply denied the woman's claims she may not have had any way to prove that the ticket was hers. Of course the clerks haven't gone to trial and after talking with a lawyer their version may well change.