The Tennessee Lottery is investigating a handful of glitches since changing the system for pulling winning numbers to a computer, but then again, are they really?
That's a question that nobody outside the lottery seems to know the answer to for sure.
State Senator Bill Ketron, the co-chair of the Lottery Oversight Committee, is calling for a complete audit of lottery procedures.
"We want to go back and look at all the processes up till we got to this point," he said.
Senator Ketron said he is surprised an investigation on lottery machines won't include information on three recent glitches.
He said, "I thought we were handling it correctly in the beginning when we said, ‘okay, you are being proactive, you have called for an outside audit.' I thought that was going to take care of everything."
KPMG is getting paid almost $90,000 to do the audit.
In a letter to the Lottery Commission they said, "We understand the vendor has corrected this issue and now the lottery wishes to engage KPMG to conduct an independent audit of the updated ADMs or automated draw machines."
That means KPMG will only look at the newer machines.
Ketron said he has spoken to Lottery President Rebecca Hargrove.
Ketron said, "She said they have an internal auditor who will be checking what the problem is and that they know what the problem was... Okay, if they know what the problem is then what's the problem?"
The answer is what Ketron and the Lottery Oversight Committee are hoping to get to the bottom of.
Lottery officials said they will work with KPMG and the Lottery Oversight Committee to pinpoint the problems.
"So I don't know if that means an additional fee that they are going to tack on to the existing contract to do what I thought we were getting to begin with, I don't know," said Ketron.
He said he is making sure the Lottery Oversight Committee is doing their due diligence to protect the people of Tennessee.
The Tennessee Lottery Oversight Committee will next meet on November 1.
I would have thought that the software and computers was completely checked and audited before they were installed as part of the normal job of the people at the lottery. The fact that someone failed to enter the proper command that controlled how the computer picked numbers was identified as the problem and now it seem they going to spend even more money to confirm it.
Now I'm wondering how much was really expected to saved by switching to computers if people at the lottery was eliminating their work while expecting to keep their job.
"Ketron said, "She said they have an internal auditor who will be checking what the problem is and that they know what the problem was... Okay, if they know what the problem is then what's the problem?"
The problem is simply; the Tennessee Lottery Commission lied to the players when they said the computer programs were tested and double numbers were drawn.
I wonder if it will be the same internal auditor who checked the computers after the players complained that no doubles were drawn and assured them by email that after testing, doubles were indeed drawn?
Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Oct 4, 2007
"Ketron said, "She said they have an internal auditor who will be checking what the problem is and that they know what the problem was... Okay, if they know what the problem is then what's the problem?"
The problem is simply; the Tennessee Lottery Commission lied to the players when they said the computer programs were tested and double numbers were drawn.
I wonder if it will be the same internal auditor who checked the computers after the players complained that no doubles were drawn and assured them by email that after testing, doubles were indeed drawn?
Could you or someone else give me a link to where you found out where it specifically states that the lottery said there were doubles drawn during the time of the glitch?
Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on Oct 4, 2007
Could you or someone else give me a link to where you found out where it specifically states that the lottery said there were doubles drawn during the time of the glitch?
You can find the e-mail posted on Lottery Post. Many people posted it. Do some searches around the time of the first major articles in August.
"It's just kind of odd it went so long without anybody noticing it and with people calling and sending e-mails about it, and they still said there was no problem," said Allen Lowe, a player who lives in Clarksville.
Lowe said he began sending e-mail messages through the lottery Web site the weekend of Aug. 11 when the drawings produced no duplicated number.
He said the lottery replied with a message saying others had made similar inquiries but testing by security staff showed no problems, with double digits coming up in the random test draws.
Now, the third paragraph is the one I'm looking at the most. It says that Lowe said that the lottery said. Now, when he says the lottery said there were duplicate numbers drawn, did the lottery themself specifically state in the email that "duplicate numbers were drawn", or perhaps did he see a response such as simply "there were no problems" and then interpret that as "there were duplicate numbers drawn" and then repeat that as so?
Whatever the investigation is, it needs to go back to the day Rebecca Paul Hargrove made a decision to switch drawing types what processes she and the committee took. And include every detail from the day she and her committee made arrangement to put in place computerized drawings clear up to the present day.
This report should include every email sent to the Tennessee lottery from the time the glitch was first discovered by the people, all news paper articles all the facts and figures and everything connected to the case involved.
What has happened since the computer glitch was corrected is practically irrelevant. All this will show is that the PC has drawn numbers but it doesn't clear up any misconception's on the players part, doesn't prove that the computers cant be manipulated.
Lottery officials are trying to side step any wrongdoing on their part.
Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on Oct 4, 2007
I found this thread:
https://www.lotterypost.com/news/161445
There were 3 paragraphs I was most interested in.
"It's just kind of odd it went so long without anybody noticing it and with people calling and sending e-mails about it, and they still said there was no problem," said Allen Lowe, a player who lives in Clarksville.
Lowe said he began sending e-mail messages through the lottery Web site the weekend of Aug. 11 when the drawings produced no duplicated number.
He said the lottery replied with a message saying others had made similar inquiries but testing by security staff showed no problems, with double digits coming up in the random test draws.
Now, the third paragraph is the one I'm looking at the most. It says that Lowe said that the lottery said. Now, when he says the lottery said there were duplicate numbers drawn, did the lottery themself specifically state in the email that "duplicate numbers were drawn", or perhaps did he see a response such as simply "there were no problems" and then interpret that as "there were duplicate numbers drawn" and then repeat that as so?
No, the actual a-mail reply was posted by members. Don't look for the news stories themselves.
Quote: Originally posted by four4me on Oct 4, 2007
Now I'm starting to get confused..... not really.
Whatever the investigation is, it needs to go back to the day Rebecca Paul Hargrove made a decision to switch drawing types what processes she and the committee took. And include every detail from the day she and her committee made arrangement to put in place computerized drawings clear up to the present day.
This report should include every email sent to the Tennessee lottery from the time the glitch was first discovered by the people, all news paper articles all the facts and figures and everything connected to the case involved.
What has happened since the computer glitch was corrected is practically irrelevant. All this will show is that the PC has drawn numbers but it doesn't clear up any misconception's on the players part, doesn't prove that the computers cant be manipulated.
Lottery officials are trying to side step any wrongdoing on their part.
I agree. It should also include transparency into the financial comparisons showing exactly how many "dollars for education" were going to increased or decreased by going computerized. After all, at least $90,000 "dollars for education" are being spent on an audit that would never have taken place if they didn't make the bonehead switch.
Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on Oct 4, 2007
I found this thread:
https://www.lotterypost.com/news/161445
There were 3 paragraphs I was most interested in.
"It's just kind of odd it went so long without anybody noticing it and with people calling and sending e-mails about it, and they still said there was no problem," said Allen Lowe, a player who lives in Clarksville.
Lowe said he began sending e-mail messages through the lottery Web site the weekend of Aug. 11 when the drawings produced no duplicated number.
He said the lottery replied with a message saying others had made similar inquiries but testing by security staff showed no problems, with double digits coming up in the random test draws.
Now, the third paragraph is the one I'm looking at the most. It says that Lowe said that the lottery said. Now, when he says the lottery said there were duplicate numbers drawn, did the lottery themself specifically state in the email that "duplicate numbers were drawn", or perhaps did he see a response such as simply "there were no problems" and then interpret that as "there were duplicate numbers drawn" and then repeat that as so?
This is the email that was sent to me and at the bottom is what I had sent the TN lottery to get this reply.
Sent: Wed 8/15/07 11:16 AM To: KyMystikal
Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.
The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.
For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.
We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn.
----- This email is in response to the comment below:
I would like to know if there is a problem with the computer that draws the lottery numbers? Every since you(Tennessee Lottery) have switched the way the numbers are chosen there hasn't been a double digit come out in ANY draw. I know that the drawings are supposed to be random but it is highly unlikely that no double would fall in any draw in 18 days.
Quote: Originally posted by KyMystikal on Oct 5, 2007
This is the email that was sent to me and at the bottom is what I had sent the TN lottery to get this reply.
Sent: Wed 8/15/07 11:16 AM To: KyMystikal
Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.
The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.
For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.
We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn.
----- This email is in response to the comment below:
I would like to know if there is a problem with the computer that draws the lottery numbers? Every since you(Tennessee Lottery) have switched the way the numbers are chosen there hasn't been a double digit come out in ANY draw. I know that the drawings are supposed to be random but it is highly unlikely that no double would fall in any draw in 18 days.
KyMystikal,
If you haven't done so already, send a copy of this email to every elected state offical. This proves they have been lying since the fiasco started.
Quote: Originally posted by KyMystikal on Oct 5, 2007
This is the email that was sent to me and at the bottom is what I had sent the TN lottery to get this reply.
Sent: Wed 8/15/07 11:16 AM To: KyMystikal
Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.
The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.
For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.
We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn.
----- This email is in response to the comment below:
I would like to know if there is a problem with the computer that draws the lottery numbers? Every since you(Tennessee Lottery) have switched the way the numbers are chosen there hasn't been a double digit come out in ANY draw. I know that the drawings are supposed to be random but it is highly unlikely that no double would fall in any draw in 18 days.
Thank you for finding and posting it. I fixed up the formatting of your post so everyone can read it.
Seems if the Tennessee Lottery's integrity and transparency had been of utmost importance, Rebecca Paul Hargrove, would have immediately reverted back to ball drop drawings at the first indication of a problem. Period, end of story.
She is a seasoned lottery professional and she should have spotted the problem without having someone call it to her attenton.
Now it appears as if she's attempting to defend a cover up ... cover her behind, her bonus, her exorbitant salary, her greedy decision which was based on money alone.
Play your lottery dollars in bordering states, and good luck when you do!!
Quote: Originally posted by Guru101 on Oct 4, 2007
Could you or someone else give me a link to where you found out where it specifically states that the lottery said there were doubles drawn during the time of the glitch?
I was referring to the email KY posted and as you can see, somebody from the Tennessee Lottery lied. The on-going theme in every email response I read was "maximizing dollars for education". When people buy PB or MM tickets are they doing it to benefit education or are they really trying to become multi-millionaires?
It's just my opinion but I believe the decision to have a daily live Pick-3 drawings using three sets of balls in a clear bingo/keno type machine was made because the lotteries were competing with the "street numbers" game at that time. I'm talking about the Pick-3 games that started over 30 years ago not the new kids on the block that hired slick talking professional lottery directors. Having a live drawing is the best way to prove drawings are honest. Are players really asking too much because they want the opportunity to see the numbers drawn by a live TV drawing?
As a smart business move, live drawings are really 30 second commercials touting other lottery games. If players tune in a couple seconds late and miss the drawing they have to hear about the latest scratch-off games hoping the host will repeat the numbers before the time is up. When you weigh the cost of live drawing to a computer drawing, it's obvious the lottery could save money until they have to find other means to advertise their games. The TV stations probably charge the lottery less for those 30 second spots because they know it will bring in added viewers.
We've heard about Ms Hargrove because of all her screw-ups, but I wonder how many people in states with successful lotteries know the name of its lottery director?
Seems if the Tennessee Lottery's integrity and transparency had been of utmost importance, Rebecca Paul Hargrove, would have immediately reverted back to ball drop drawings at the first indication of a problem. Period, end of story.
She is a seasoned lottery professional and she should have spotted the problem without having someone call it to her attenton.
Now it appears as if she's attempting to defend a cover up ... cover her behind, her bonus, her exorbitant salary, her greedy decision which was based on money alone.
Play your lottery dollars in bordering states, and good luck when you do!!
"She (Ms Hargrove) is a seasoned lottery professional and she should have spotted the problem without having someone call it to her attenton."
That's only in states with small lotteries where the lottery director is not a political appointee. I'm guessing Ms Hargrove doesn't know how many Pick-4 combinations have matching digits.
I was just looking at the payoffs of Tennessee's Lotto 5 game (5/39) where matching 4 numbers paid $114, matching 3 paid $7, and matching 2 paid nothing so compared to other state lottery 5/39 games, Ms Hargrove has done an excellent job of maximizing dollar for education though I doubt any seasoned lottery player would even consider playing that game.
Quote: Originally posted by Stack47 on Oct 5, 2007
"She (Ms Hargrove) is a seasoned lottery professional and she should have spotted the problem without having someone call it to her attenton."
That's only in states with small lotteries where the lottery director is not a political appointee. I'm guessing Ms Hargrove doesn't know how many Pick-4 combinations have matching digits.
I was just looking at the payoffs of Tennessee's Lotto 5 game (5/39) where matching 4 numbers paid $114, matching 3 paid $7, and matching 2 paid nothing so compared to other state lottery 5/39 games, Ms Hargrove has done an excellent job of maximizing dollar for education though I doubt any seasoned lottery player would even consider playing that game.
Fire the CEO ! ! !
I would have thought that the software and computers was completely checked and audited before they were installed as part of the normal job of the people at the lottery. The fact that someone failed to enter the proper command that controlled how the computer picked numbers was identified as the problem and now it seem they going to spend even more money to confirm it.
Now I'm wondering how much was really expected to saved by switching to computers if people at the lottery was eliminating their work while expecting to keep their job.
"Ketron said, "She said they have an internal auditor who will be checking what the problem is and that they know what the problem was... Okay, if they know what the problem is then what's the problem?"
The problem is simply; the Tennessee Lottery Commission lied to the players when they said the computer programs were tested and double numbers were drawn.
I wonder if it will be the same internal auditor who checked the computers after the players complained that no doubles were drawn and assured them by email that after testing, doubles were indeed drawn?
Could you or someone else give me a link to where you found out where it specifically states that the lottery said there were doubles drawn during the time of the glitch?
You can find the e-mail posted on Lottery Post. Many people posted it. Do some searches around the time of the first major articles in August.
I found this thread:
https://www.lotterypost.com/news/161445
There were 3 paragraphs I was most interested in.
"It's just kind of odd it went so long without anybody noticing it and with people calling and sending e-mails about it, and they still said there was no problem," said Allen Lowe, a player who lives in Clarksville.
Lowe said he began sending e-mail messages through the lottery Web site the weekend of Aug. 11 when the drawings produced no duplicated number.
He said the lottery replied with a message saying others had made similar inquiries but testing by security staff showed no problems, with double digits coming up in the random test draws.
Now, the third paragraph is the one I'm looking at the most. It says that Lowe said that the lottery said. Now, when he says the lottery said there were duplicate numbers drawn, did the lottery themself specifically state in the email that "duplicate numbers were drawn", or perhaps did he see a response such as simply "there were no problems" and then interpret that as "there were duplicate numbers drawn" and then repeat that as so?
Now I'm starting to get confused..... not really.
Whatever the investigation is, it needs to go back to the day Rebecca Paul Hargrove made a decision to switch drawing types what processes she and the committee took. And include every detail from the day she and her committee made arrangement to put in place computerized drawings clear up to the present day.
This report should include every email sent to the Tennessee lottery from the time the glitch was first discovered by the people, all news paper articles all the facts and figures and everything connected to the case involved.
What has happened since the computer glitch was corrected is practically irrelevant. All this will show is that the PC has drawn numbers but it doesn't clear up any misconception's on the players part, doesn't prove that the computers cant be manipulated.
Lottery officials are trying to side step any wrongdoing on their part.
No, the actual a-mail reply was posted by members. Don't look for the news stories themselves.
I agree. It should also include transparency into the financial comparisons showing exactly how many "dollars for education" were going to increased or decreased by going computerized. After all, at least $90,000 "dollars for education" are being spent on an audit that would never have taken place if they didn't make the bonehead switch.
This is the email that was sent to me and at the bottom is what I had sent the TN lottery to get this reply.
Sent: Wed 8/15/07 11:16 AM
To: KyMystikal
Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.
The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.
For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.
We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn.
-----
This email is in response to the comment below:
I would like to know if there is a problem with the computer that draws the lottery numbers? Every since you(Tennessee Lottery) have switched the way the numbers are chosen there hasn't been a double digit come out in ANY draw. I know that the drawings are supposed to be random but it is highly unlikely that no double would fall in any draw in 18 days.
The players in Tenn have missed a chance to show what they think about all this mess. They should have stopped playing P3 and P4.
But they did not.
Now the lotto knows they are hooked. They may even drop the payout or block certain numbers from being played. They could raise the cost of a ticket.
They know the people there will just keep buying tickets.
Wake up people!
ez
EZ, you can't make it any clearer than that!!!!!
KyMystikal,
If you haven't done so already, send a copy of this email to every elected state offical. This proves they have been lying since the fiasco started.
Thank you for finding and posting it. I fixed up the formatting of your post so everyone can read it.
Kymystikal, takeitez & many of the LOTTERY POST member's all
know more about SECURITY and INTEGRITY on the operation of a
state run game than anyone who DRAWS a salary from the great
state of TN Lottery Commission<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
IT appear's all of the great lawmaker's of this state will strike out on
a REAL INVESTIGATION of what are the FACTS and any corrections!!
PLEASE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GREAT STATE of TN
Let's be "HONEST" >>>on this
WON
Thanks to ALL on LP ..........................>>>>>>> A JACKPOT 2-U
Seems if the Tennessee Lottery's integrity and transparency had been of utmost importance, Rebecca Paul Hargrove, would have immediately reverted back to ball drop drawings at the first indication of a problem. Period, end of story.
She is a seasoned lottery professional and she should have spotted the problem without having someone call it to her attenton.
Now it appears as if she's attempting to defend a cover up ... cover her behind, her bonus, her exorbitant salary, her greedy decision which was based on money alone.
Play your lottery dollars in bordering states, and good luck when you do!!
I was referring to the email KY posted and as you can see, somebody from the Tennessee Lottery lied. The on-going theme in every email response I read was "maximizing dollars for education". When people buy PB or MM tickets are they doing it to benefit education or are they really trying to become multi-millionaires?
It's just my opinion but I believe the decision to have a daily live Pick-3 drawings using three sets of balls in a clear bingo/keno type machine was made because the lotteries were competing with the "street numbers" game at that time. I'm talking about the Pick-3 games that started over 30 years ago not the new kids on the block that hired slick talking professional lottery directors. Having a live drawing is the best way to prove drawings are honest. Are players really asking too much because they want the opportunity to see the numbers drawn by a live TV drawing?
As a smart business move, live drawings are really 30 second commercials touting other lottery games. If players tune in a couple seconds late and miss the drawing they have to hear about the latest scratch-off games hoping the host will repeat the numbers before the time is up. When you weigh the cost of live drawing to a computer drawing, it's obvious the lottery could save money until they have to find other means to advertise their games. The TV stations probably charge the lottery less for those 30 second spots because they know it will bring in added viewers.
We've heard about Ms Hargrove because of all her screw-ups, but I wonder how many people in states with successful lotteries know the name of its lottery director?
"She (Ms Hargrove) is a seasoned lottery professional and she should have spotted the problem without having someone call it to her attenton."
That's only in states with small lotteries where the lottery director is not a political appointee. I'm guessing Ms Hargrove doesn't know how many Pick-4 combinations have matching digits.
I was just looking at the payoffs of Tennessee's Lotto 5 game (5/39) where matching 4 numbers paid $114, matching 3 paid $7, and matching 2 paid nothing so compared to other state lottery 5/39 games, Ms Hargrove has done an excellent job of maximizing dollar for education though I doubt any seasoned lottery player would even consider playing that game.
Let's be "HONEST" on^^^^^^ this>>>>>>>>>>> ^^^^^^
WON>>>>>>>NOW!
https://www.lotterypost.com/thread/164134/909262
"why don't we all just...............FORGET"
and.........HOPE>>>>>all the $$$$$$>>>>>all the HELP for the poor children's<<
Aid and Help for education will GO AWAY<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No more HOPE for children!
LOL to all>>>>>>>>>>>>>"U" greedy lotto players
all^^^^U-ALL lottery player's want to do is get RICH off back's
of the "LITTLE"..........CHILDREN .........."shame on you"
therefore,........BEWARE>>> lotto player's
the Lottery Comission has UR
#####'s in the RNG!