The winner of a $1 million lottery scratch ticket may not be so lucky after all: He's a convicted bank robber who isn't supposed to gamble.
Timothy Elliott faces a Dec. 7 court hearing over whether he violated his probation when he bought the $10 ticket for the $800 Million Spectacular game at a supermarket in Hyannis.
Elliott was placed on five years' probation after pleading guilty in October 2006 to unarmed robbery for a January 2006 heist at a bank on Cape Cod. Under terms of his probation, he "may not gamble, purchase lottery tickets or visit an establishment where gaming is conducted, including restaurants where Keno may be played."
Elliott, 55, has collected the first of 20 annual $50,000 checks from the Massachusetts lottery commission. A picture of Elliott, holding his first check, was posted on the lottery's Web site Monday, though it was removed by Wednesday.
As part of his sentence, Elliott was put under the care of the state Mental Health Department and sent to a hospital for treatment, and state officials refused Wednesday to say whether he was still being treated.
A telephone number for Elliott could not immediately be located Wednesday, and it was not clear whether he had a lawyer.
The lottery routinely cross references the names of winners with the state Revenue Department to see if they owe back taxes or child support, lottery spokesman Dan Rosenfeld said. In those cases, winnings go straight to the Revenue Department.
But in this case, it will be up to the court to determine what will happen with Elliott's winnings.
This just goes to prove that bank robbers just aren't very smart!
I watched a show on tv about bank robbers once and they said that 85% of all bank robbers get caught. So if you aint part of the 15% that didnt get caught your gonna get busted.
So take "robbing banks" off your career choice list I'd say!
Career choices
1. doctor
2. lawyer
3. Deli owner
4. robbing banks
Why didn't he just have someone else collect the money for him, o yeah I already answered that one cause he's dumb!
Im curious to see what happens to this guy... Im wondering if probation dept is going to let him have his prize... I wouldnt be the least bit suprised if they take it from him..because he wasnt suppost to be gambling in the first place... If i were him...i would have my brother cash in the winning card...now he could be headed back to jail.. with no defense but guilty as charged...i guess the lottery payed off better than bank robbery...this guy dont have much luck at all if you think about it...
When this hit the wire, I had an immediate impression related to mental illness, which the media reports elude to. They do not give the detail on whether this gentleman has a DPOA, guardian, court-appointed advocate, etc. The obvious issue here is as already pointed out - clearly court-order prohibited from gambling, so he gambles and goes on to cash a big winning ticket. I think the issue may be a little more complicated than face value. If he is functioning in the population but mentally ill or challenged in some manner, someone somewhere will argue he was not capable of understanding the probation terms and/or controlling his impulse to gamble. He clearly violated his probation but if he was, in fact, not able to comply in the first place with the terms of probation, he would not be responsible for subsequent actions and a good attorney will use the poor judgement of presenting his winning ticket himself in his defense. The issues are also more than just losing the winning ticket. VOP will put him back in the system. The other issue is that he may not meet the Lottery definition of a person prohibited from purchasing lottery ticket (underage, etc.) because the prohibition stems from court-ordered terms. Many times challenged individuals (including brain-injured) understand the concept of money and even how the lottery works - buy a ticket and get money back - but are not able to comprehend the finer points of how/why/where that money is generated or its tax implications, etc. It will be interesting to see where this goes. This amount of money may spur a good attorney somewhere to get involved (assuming he does not have means already) to see where this will go.
I'm never in favor of probation terms that have nothing to do with the "crime" committed. It's just a way of controlling people beyond their initial "punishment".
He is more likely to cause fewer problems with a $50,000 income a year than nothing. But of course the fewer people under the "care" of the mental hospitals(sic) or the prison systems would necessitate fewer of those systems and "jobs" they create.
I'm going to guess that he will end up losing the money. Whether or not anyone thinks he should have had the no gambling terms written in his probation, he still broke his probation. I agree with the poster above that he probably should have had a family member of friend cash his winnings if he was going to play at all.
When this hit the wire, I had an immediate impression related to mental illness, which the media reports elude to. They do not give the detail on whether this gentleman has a DPOA, guardian, court-appointed advocate, etc. The obvious issue here is as already pointed out - clearly court-order prohibited from gambling, so he gambles and goes on to cash a big winning ticket. I think the issue may be a little more complicated than face value. If he is functioning in the population but mentally ill or challenged in some manner, someone somewhere will argue he was not capable of understanding the probation terms and/or controlling his impulse to gamble. He clearly violated his probation but if he was, in fact, not able to comply in the first place with the terms of probation, he would not be responsible for subsequent actions and a good attorney will use the poor judgement of presenting his winning ticket himself in his defense. The issues are also more than just losing the winning ticket. VOP will put him back in the system. The other issue is that he may not meet the Lottery definition of a person prohibited from purchasing lottery ticket (underage, etc.) because the prohibition stems from court-ordered terms. Many times challenged individuals (including brain-injured) understand the concept of money and even how the lottery works - buy a ticket and get money back - but are not able to comprehend the finer points of how/why/where that money is generated or its tax implications, etc. It will be interesting to see where this goes. This amount of money may spur a good attorney somewhere to get involved (assuming he does not have means already) to see where this will go.
At first I thought they might take the winnings but after reading this I think he may have a chance at keeping the winnings. if I was a lawyer I would probably take this take his case.
Quote: Originally posted by time*treat on Nov 29, 2007
I'm never in favor of probation terms that have nothing to do with the "crime" committed. It's just a way of controlling people beyond their initial "punishment".
He is more likely to cause fewer problems with a $50,000 income a year than nothing. But of course the fewer people under the "care" of the mental hospitals(sic) or the prison systems would necessitate fewer of those systems and "jobs" they create.
It may be he robbed the bank to pay off gambling debts.
Time Treat make a really good point. Whatever crimes the guy has committed, taking away 50 grand a year in legitimate income isn't going to do much to reduce his interest in committing more crimes.
My guess is that after talking with his lawyer he'll remember that the lottery ticket was given to him as a gift. That would mean he didn't violate his probation, and gets to keep the winnings. Too bad there's nothing inthe article about when he alledgedly bought the ticket. My guess would be that the store doesn't keep security tapes for very long, but he may have cashed the ticket in too much of a hurry.
I would think that this guy must have some sort of gambling problem that was recognized by massachusetts or it wouldnt be part of his probationary terms...could be he supported a gambling habit that cause him to rob that bank...hard to say.
Quote: Originally posted by KyMystikal on Nov 29, 2007
At first I thought they might take the winnings but after reading this I think he may have a chance at keeping the winnings. if I was a lawyer I would probably take this take his case.
When mental illness is added into the equation.
"Elliott was placed on five years' probation after pleading guilty in October 2006 to unarmed robbery"
Maybe when he robbed that bank he used his thumb and forefinger as a make believe gun.
If he really knew that he couldn't buy lottery tickets, why did he buy one, win, cash it, and have his picture taken holding the check?
The only ones that will get any money from this are the lawyers.
If it's determined he purchased and cashed the ticket illegally the money goes back to the state. But wait, they have a winning ticket and and no owner, who gets it now? Back to litigation
If it's determined it's ok for him to keep getting the money, then doesn't he owe for all the past free mental health care he's received? Back to litigation.
If the lottery commision determines that the ticket was illegal and tries to put the money back in the general fun, isn't it possible that the state mental health system declares that the money is theirs and decides to fight for it.?Back to litigation.
Meanwhile, his family, the same ones that didn't want anything to do with him until now, are all trying to get themselves designated his legal guardian. Back to litigation.
The way I see it, there is already 10-15 lawyers involved in this, so no matter the outcome, this poor guy will never see another penny of it.
If he's smart he will go rob another bank and get thrown back in jail where neither his family or the lawyers can bother him.
It seems to me that violating probation should involve put him back in jail, not taking his winnings. If they do take his winnings, that is equal to a $1 million dollar fine, and I would think a lawyer could see if there is precedent for that among people on similar probation who are caught gambling being fined a similar amount or having their entire winnings taken. Does the probation say "All gambling winnings shall be forfeited to the state"?
The other problem I have is that cases like this make states more likely to go over big winners with a fine tooth comb to prove some way to make them ineligible to win the money. The state has a financial interest in it, they would make a million dollars profit by making someone "ineligible". That prize won't be going back in the pool to be won by someone else, it will be kept by the state.
But yeah, not too smart to be photographed at lottery HQ. You would think someone who is as well aquainted with the legal system as a convicted bank robber would at least visit a lawyer and pick up the prize anonymously.
Lets put it this way...this guy has more headaches by winning the lottery...i hope he is not spending it before he is sure it is his to spend..as we all know he is fighting the state of massachusetts...and the state very rarely loses! Im betting that the state is going to say that he knew about his gambling restrictions and there-for he shouldnt be entitled to the winnings!!!!!! Personally the only one whos coming out ahead of this mess is the lawyers at $300 per hour...Sad who the real criminals are....that is the justice system!!!
Quote: Originally posted by go4it-andwin on Dec 2, 2007
Lets put it this way...this guy has more headaches by winning the lottery...i hope he is not spending it before he is sure it is his to spend..as we all know he is fighting the state of massachusetts...and the state very rarely loses! Im betting that the state is going to say that he knew about his gambling restrictions and there-for he shouldnt be entitled to the winnings!!!!!! Personally the only one whos coming out ahead of this mess is the lawyers at $300 per hour...Sad who the real criminals are....that is the justice system!!!
You know what the strangest thing about this whole story/case is?
The very crime that he did was purchase something that the state aided in, in otherwords
Most crimes dont usually involve the state selling the very thing that causes a person to be labeled a criminal. He bought it from the State. Someone who buys drugs in otherwords buys it from an illegal drug dealer.
In this situation the drugs dealers were the State themselves selling the drugs(the ticket) But its legal for them to sell.
The state sold the drugs to him and now they want topunish him for what they sold him. They're prosecuting him for what they sold him.
Thats just sort of strange, if you look at it in that way!
The winner of a $1 million lottery scratch ticket may not be so lucky after all: He's a convicted bank robber who isn't supposed to gamble. We'll maybe the state shouldnt be selling something the drug in the first place.
Maybe the money should go to help people addicted in what they sell. I love the way the state gets away with selling "addictions" under the guise of "entertainment" I think all forms of gamgling should be a violation for the guy unless the very state that has him on probabtion sells it to him! He got the ticket from them not some illegal place down the road operating illegally. He got the stickin ticket from the STATE!
Just sayin!
Just sayin why criminalize your customer! Thats all he really was,just a customer of something you legally sell.
Its not like he went and robbed a bank or something!! geesh!
When you are released from prison they set the rules by which you can live by until you are off of probation.
One of the things he was told was.
Under terms of his probation, he "may not gamble, purchase lottery tickets or visit an establishment where gaming is conducted, including restaurants where Keno may be played."
While buying a lottery ticket isn't a criminal offense for most citizens he violated his probation when he tried to cash a wining ticket.
Yet I think all people should be able to buy a ticket if the state is selling!
The probation rules should say,"You can only buy lottery tickets and scratcher games from a state run office or retailer or legal state market, and only from the state! If you are found gambling "illegally" outside of buying from the state, it is a violation of your probation.
But that State criminalizing the public on probation is criminalizing itself!
Nanolike writes: "Most crimes dont usually involve the state selling the very thing that causes a person to be labeled a criminal. He bought it from the State. Someone who buys drugs in otherwords buys it from an illegal drug dealer."
I guess you aren't familiar with all the alcohol related traffic deaths, rapes and murders. Buying alcohol is legal. It's also legal to buy a gun. We get our driver's licenses from the State and then people go out and kill someone by running a red light or driving recklessly.
I see where you are going with this and agree that buying lottery tickets can be very addictive and not just a form of entertainment for many of us. However, I also believe you are looking at this in the wrong light.
Let's use the example of the person who has several DUIs and has served some time in jail. One condition of his probation is that he can't drink. He can't go to a bar or liquor store and buy alcohol. If he does, he is violating the terms of his probation. This man was ordered not to gamble, including buying lottery tickets.
So, let's say I go into a restaurant and ask for a glass of wine with my grilled salmon. I'm over 50 so the server isn't going to ask me for identification. He doesn't need to know if I'm allergic to fish or on probation for DUI. It's not his job. So unless all the lottery retailers have to ask for ID and check our criminal backgrounds, it's not up to the State to monitor our lottery purchases. However, it is up to us to act responsibly. If someone has a psychiatric disorder, then perhaps he needs someone to handle his money.
Being a lottery player, my first reaction was "give him the darn money" but if he robbed a bank, he is a criminal and must obey the terms of his release. If he is mentally ill, then maybe the money can be used to help him and others with gambling problems. However, we can't just keep making excuses for people who commit crimes.
>"We would like to see him get his money," Dan Rosenfeld, a spokesman for the lottery, said yesterday. "What we are talking about is the integrity of the game. He played the game. He won the game. The integrity of the game is very important to us. That's our business."
This is a good point. From a sales perspective, the lottery can't afford to have people pass up the lottery because they think the state is going to grab their winnings if they've had a questionable past and it is now "state policy" to go for winnings confiscation. It doesn't matter if it's actually true or not if the perception is there. People get paranoid and stop playing, other people get angry and stop playing. It doesn't win the lottery new customers, that's for sure.
This just goes to prove that bank robbers just aren't very smart!
I watched a show on tv about bank robbers once and they said that 85% of all bank robbers get caught. So if you aint part of the 15% that didnt get caught your gonna get busted.
So take "robbing banks" off your career choice list I'd say!
Career choices
1. doctor
2. lawyer
3. Deli owner
4. robbing banks
Why didn't he just have someone else collect the money for him, o yeah I already answered that one cause he's dumb!
should have been a Santa Claus!!
Im curious to see what happens to this guy... Im wondering if probation dept is going to let him have his prize... I wouldnt be the least bit suprised if they take it from him..because he wasnt suppost to be gambling in the first place... If i were him...i would have my brother cash in the winning card...now he could be headed back to jail.. with no defense but guilty as charged...i guess the lottery payed off better than bank robbery...this guy dont have much luck at all if you think about it...
He rob the bank and the court rob him. Even Steven !
Great comments!
He obviously didn't read his probation "fine print" about what you're not permitted to do.
Bet the state will confiscate it as restitution, or under the statute of money seized during the commission of a crime.
When this hit the wire, I had an immediate impression related to mental illness, which the media reports elude to. They do not give the detail on whether this gentleman has a DPOA, guardian, court-appointed advocate, etc. The obvious issue here is as already pointed out - clearly court-order prohibited from gambling, so he gambles and goes on to cash a big winning ticket. I think the issue may be a little more complicated than face value. If he is functioning in the population but mentally ill or challenged in some manner, someone somewhere will argue he was not capable of understanding the probation terms and/or controlling his impulse to gamble. He clearly violated his probation but if he was, in fact, not able to comply in the first place with the terms of probation, he would not be responsible for subsequent actions and a good attorney will use the poor judgement of presenting his winning ticket himself in his defense. The issues are also more than just losing the winning ticket. VOP will put him back in the system. The other issue is that he may not meet the Lottery definition of a person prohibited from purchasing lottery ticket (underage, etc.) because the prohibition stems from court-ordered terms. Many times challenged individuals (including brain-injured) understand the concept of money and even how the lottery works - buy a ticket and get money back - but are not able to comprehend the finer points of how/why/where that money is generated or its tax implications, etc. It will be interesting to see where this goes. This amount of money may spur a good attorney somewhere to get involved (assuming he does not have means already) to see where this will go.
I'm never in favor of probation terms that have nothing to do with the "crime" committed. It's just a way of controlling people beyond their initial "punishment".
He is more likely to cause fewer problems with a $50,000 income a year than nothing. But of course the fewer people under the "care" of the mental hospitals(sic) or the prison systems would necessitate fewer of those systems and "jobs" they create.
I'm going to guess that he will end up losing the money. Whether or not anyone thinks he should have had the no gambling terms written in his probation, he still broke his probation. I agree with the poster above that he probably should have had a family member of friend cash his winnings if he was going to play at all.
At first I thought they might take the winnings but after reading this I think he may have a chance at keeping the winnings. if I was a lawyer I would probably take this take his case.
It may be he robbed the bank to pay off gambling debts.
And robbers are what..... shmart?
I think he may have a good defense that it is "cruel and unusual punishment" to forbid someone to play the Lottery.
And robbers are what..... shmart?
He should have kept his mouth shut! I heard some jealous a-hole ratted him out to the probation officer...
SnitchesTime Treat make a really good point. Whatever crimes the guy has committed, taking away 50 grand a year in legitimate income isn't going to do much to reduce his interest in committing more crimes.
My guess is that after talking with his lawyer he'll remember that the lottery ticket was given to him as a gift. That would mean he didn't violate his probation, and gets to keep the winnings. Too bad there's nothing inthe article about when he alledgedly bought the ticket. My guess would be that the store doesn't keep security tapes for very long, but he may have cashed the ticket in too much of a hurry.
I would think that this guy must have some sort of gambling problem that was recognized by massachusetts or it wouldnt be part of his probationary terms...could be he supported a gambling habit that cause him to rob that bank...hard to say.
When mental illness is added into the equation.
"Elliott was placed on five years' probation after pleading guilty in October 2006 to unarmed robbery"
Maybe when he robbed that bank he used his thumb and forefinger as a make believe gun.
If he really knew that he couldn't buy lottery tickets, why did he buy one, win, cash it, and have his picture taken holding the check?
This is really lame if they take away his prize.
The only ones that will get any money from this are the lawyers.
If it's determined he purchased and cashed the ticket illegally the money goes back to the state. But wait, they have a winning ticket and and no owner, who gets it now? Back to litigation
If it's determined it's ok for him to keep getting the money, then doesn't he owe for all the past free mental health care he's received? Back to litigation.
If the lottery commision determines that the ticket was illegal and tries to put the money back in the general fun, isn't it possible that the state mental health system declares that the money is theirs and decides to fight for it.?Back to litigation.
Meanwhile, his family, the same ones that didn't want anything to do with him until now, are all trying to get themselves designated his legal guardian. Back to litigation.
The way I see it, there is already 10-15 lawyers involved in this, so no matter the outcome, this poor guy will never see another penny of it.
If he's smart he will go rob another bank and get thrown back in jail where neither his family or the lawyers can bother him.
It seems to me that violating probation should involve put him back in jail, not taking his winnings. If they do take his winnings, that is equal to a $1 million dollar fine, and I would think a lawyer could see if there is precedent for that among people on similar probation who are caught gambling being fined a similar amount or having their entire winnings taken. Does the probation say "All gambling winnings shall be forfeited to the state"?
The other problem I have is that cases like this make states more likely to go over big winners with a fine tooth comb to prove some way to make them ineligible to win the money. The state has a financial interest in it, they would make a million dollars profit by making someone "ineligible". That prize won't be going back in the pool to be won by someone else, it will be kept by the state.
But yeah, not too smart to be photographed at lottery HQ. You would think someone who is as well aquainted with the legal system as a convicted bank robber would at least visit a lawyer and pick up the prize anonymously.
Lets put it this way...this guy has more headaches by winning the lottery...i hope he is not spending it before he is sure it is his to spend..as we all know he is fighting the state of massachusetts...and the state very rarely loses! Im betting that the state is going to say that he knew about his gambling restrictions and there-for he shouldnt be entitled to the winnings!!!!!! Personally the only one whos coming out ahead of this mess is the lawyers at $300 per hour...Sad who the real criminals are....that is the justice system!!!
He should be able to keep his winnings but he should be punished for violating his parole.
Brad
You know what the strangest thing about this whole story/case is?
The very crime that he did was purchase something that the state aided in, in otherwords
Most crimes dont usually involve the state selling the very thing that causes a person to be labeled a criminal. He bought it from the State. Someone who buys drugs in otherwords buys it from an illegal drug dealer.
In this situation the drugs dealers were the State themselves selling the drugs(the ticket) But its legal for them to sell.
The state sold the drugs to him and now they want topunish him for what they sold him. They're prosecuting him for what they sold him.
Thats just sort of strange, if you look at it in that way!
The winner of a $1 million lottery scratch ticket may not be so lucky after all: He's a convicted bank robber who isn't supposed to gamble. We'll maybe the state shouldnt be selling something the drug in the first place.
Maybe the money should go to help people addicted in what they sell. I love the way the state gets away with selling "addictions" under the guise of "entertainment" I think all forms of gamgling should be a violation for the guy unless the very state that has him on probabtion sells it to him! He got the ticket from them not some illegal place down the road operating illegally. He got the stickin ticket from the STATE!
Just sayin!
Just sayin why criminalize your customer! Thats all he really was,just a customer of something you legally sell.
Its not like he went and robbed a bank or something!! geesh!
When you are released from prison they set the rules by which you can live by until you are off of probation.
One of the things he was told was.
Under terms of his probation, he "may not gamble, purchase lottery tickets or visit an establishment where gaming is conducted, including restaurants where Keno may be played."
While buying a lottery ticket isn't a criminal offense for most citizens he violated his probation when he tried to cash a wining ticket.
There is a truth in the old song
I fought the Law and the, Law won!
Yet I think all people should be able to buy a ticket if the state is selling!
The probation rules should say,"You can only buy lottery tickets and scratcher games from a state run office or retailer or legal state market, and only from the state! If you are found gambling "illegally" outside of buying from the state, it is a violation of your probation.
But that State criminalizing the public on probation is criminalizing itself!
Nanolike writes: "Most crimes dont usually involve the state selling the very thing that causes a person to be labeled a criminal. He bought it from the State. Someone who buys drugs in otherwords buys it from an illegal drug dealer."
I guess you aren't familiar with all the alcohol related traffic deaths, rapes and murders. Buying alcohol is legal. It's also legal to buy a gun. We get our driver's licenses from the State and then people go out and kill someone by running a red light or driving recklessly.
I see where you are going with this and agree that buying lottery tickets can be very addictive and not just a form of entertainment for many of us. However, I also believe you are looking at this in the wrong light.
Let's use the example of the person who has several DUIs and has served some time in jail. One condition of his probation is that he can't drink. He can't go to a bar or liquor store and buy alcohol. If he does, he is violating the terms of his probation. This man was ordered not to gamble, including buying lottery tickets.
So, let's say I go into a restaurant and ask for a glass of wine with my grilled salmon. I'm over 50 so the server isn't going to ask me for identification. He doesn't need to know if I'm allergic to fish or on probation for DUI. It's not his job. So unless all the lottery retailers have to ask for ID and check our criminal backgrounds, it's not up to the State to monitor our lottery purchases. However, it is up to us to act responsibly. If someone has a psychiatric disorder, then perhaps he needs someone to handle his money.
Being a lottery player, my first reaction was "give him the darn money" but if he robbed a bank, he is a criminal and must obey the terms of his release. If he is mentally ill, then maybe the money can be used to help him and others with gambling problems. However, we can't just keep making excuses for people who commit crimes.
Here's the latest.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/12/08/lottery_hopes_to_pay_winnings_to_ex_convict/
>"We would like to see him get his money," Dan Rosenfeld, a spokesman for the lottery, said yesterday. "What we are talking about is the integrity of the game. He played the game. He won the game. The integrity of the game is very important to us. That's our business."
This is a good point. From a sales perspective, the lottery can't afford to have people pass up the lottery because they think the state is going to grab their winnings if they've had a questionable past and it is now "state policy" to go for winnings confiscation. It doesn't matter if it's actually true or not if the perception is there. People get paranoid and stop playing, other people get angry and stop playing. It doesn't win the lottery new customers, that's for sure.