Michigan welfare recipients couldn't claim major prizes
Michigan lawmakers are being asked to prevent any person receiving welfare from winning major Michigan State Lottery prizes, and the idea has area residents and business people at odds.
If signed into law, the proposed legislation would prohibit a person getting welfare, food stamps or Medicaid from collecting a lottery prize of more than $600. If the prize were larger, the portion not paid to the winner would go to the state School Aid Fund, as does all unclaimed lottery prize money.
House Bill 6534 was introduced Oct. 5 by state Rep. Tom McMillin of Rochester Hills and co-sponsored by House members Jim Stamas of Midland, David Agema of Grandville and Pete Lund of Shelby Township. All are Republicans.
McMillin, a freshman legislator, said he introduced the bill because the concept had been on his mind and he wanted to "open up debate."
"The lottery is a bad gamble for a lot of people," McMillin said. "Some people play it for recreation. One too many times, I saw people standing in line who appeared to be poor and they were buying tons of lottery tickets."
McMillin said his goal is to keep people in need from wasting money.
"They should save it and buy some clothes and food — and make sure they're looking good when they go out for a job interview," McMillin said.
"You can't stop somebody from buying the tickets," he added, "so this was the only way to dampen the desire to throw their money away."
Local views about the proposal seem mixed.
"That ain't right," Paul Schultz, 53, of Port Huron said. "That's not fair. They paid for their ticket. It might help them out."
"Why should they do that?" said Norene Ruel, 59, of Port Huron. "I don't think that's right. If they want to spend their money on the lottery, let them."
Tom Bachman, 66, of Port Huron had a different perspective.
"If they're on welfare," he said, "they've got no business spending their money on the lottery."
Bachman's view was echoed by Najib Kakos, who owns Buscemi's/Beverage Barrel in downtown Port Huron, where lottery tickets are sold. He said the legislation would have his support regardless of its impact on lottery sales at his business.
"We have family members that own businesses in the Detroit area, primarily in really poor neighborhoods," he said. "Their lottery sales are unbelievable compared to ours.
"If you're barely making it, you shouldn't be gambling," Kakos said. "The money should be used for food and shelter. It doesn't matter if it hurts our sales — it's about doing what's right."
One owner of a ticket outlet disagreed.
"If a person got a million-dollar ticket, then they should win a million — or $50,000 or whatever," said Dennis Zielke, owner of Adair Market in Casco Township. "They should be able to have it."
Owners of several local stores that sell lottery tickets declined comment.
Andi Brancato, director of public relations for the Michigan Lottery, said there are concerns about the idea.
"There are some questions about the enforcement provisions which we don't really feel are in the bill right now," she said. "So, without any enforcement provisions, it's difficult for us to elaborate on the bill."
McMillin said enforcement would occur at the state level because $600 is the maximum amount that can be paid out at the store where the winning ticket was bought.
For any greater prize, "the winner has to come to Lansing to get it," he said, "and they can match up the name and ensure that they're not on state assistance."
McMillin said he knows of no other state that has adopted such a plan but said a similar bill was considered — and rejected — in Tennessee.
As for his own proposal, "I don't expect it to necessarily pass this year," McMillin said.
When I see someone drop $800 IN FOOD STAMPS THEN WALK OVER TO THE LOTTERY COUNTER AND DROP ANOTHER $50 FOR LOTTERY THEN HOP IN TO A NAVIGATOR WITH GOLD RIMS AND RUNNING LIGHTS, I'M SORRY BUT, THEY ARE REALLY NOT THAT NEEDY.
Food stamp abuse is running wild in Michigan, we now have people moving here to get better welfare bennies.
There are truly people in need here and when the system is abused it takes away from families and the brink of disaster.
this is a toughy, how about they take what theyve ben paid in welfare out the prize? take the whole prize just because someones down on their luck.
are not a lot of people out of work over there now?
winning a nice amount will disqualify them from payments, and they will spend the money like drunken sailors.
sure the cash was a handout.
but man people have to have some hope in their lives.
The politicians stealing money from the citizens!
AGAIN!
We are citizens .... not sources of income !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this legislation, but to those who say "subtract the welfare payouts from a prize (if they win one)", that does not solve the problem they are trying to address. It does not discourage welfare recipients from playing, because the amount of welfare payout removed from a jackpot is negligible, compared to the overall jackpot. Meanwhile, the chances of actually winning the jackpot is very small, and the probability that the welfare money is being spent on losing lottery tickets is much higher.
One thing I do agree with, as far as this legislation is concerned, is that people should NEVER gamble with money that they cannot safely afford to lose. The lottery is entertainment, not an investment.
On the other hand, I am very much against government intrusion. I do not believe the government has any right to tell people not to gamble. That includes over the Internet. (Just like how the government should not take from one group of people and give it to another.)
Perhaps the politicians should just grow a backbone and reform the welfare system, rather than tinkering with the lottery.
I agree with the sentiment, but the "government" is so intrusive these days, that the list of what we are allowed to do will soon be very short!
I am on Social Security Disability. I spend $2 to $4 a week either Mega Millions or Powerball. This is my only hobby. Should I win; does the "government" have the "right" to limit my winnings?
"Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness" - kinda' in the Constitution!
We the People! ....... NOT ......... "We the Government"
I'm proud to be American but since I've been here (China), it seems that the USA is becoming more and more NOT '"for the people, by the people". I've been away from the USA for over 4 years and so much has changed. Don't think I will go back for a long while, except to visit.
here in australia, they have something called, " quarantined payments "
there is half the welfare check goes onto a gov card. and it cant be spent on stuff like smokes, alcohol gambling, other half can be spent how the person likes.
"One too many times, I saw people standing in line who appeared to be poor and they were buying tons of lottery tickets."
I don't know how appearing to be poor proves the players are on welfare because I stopped on my way home from working in a factory many days and I certainly wasn't dressed in my Sunday best. Anybody would have thought I was very poor especially when I got into the beater car I drove to work.
This bill won't prevent anyone from buying tickets or collecting over $600 when they can simply get someone to cash it for them for a commission. Part of the Dateline NBC investigation was about the relatives of store owners collecting multiple jackpots. None of the store owners said they were cashing the tickets for players who didn't want it know they won, but it's obvious they were because of the large number of winners.
If it's true that some Welfare recipients have enough money left over to purchase "tons of lottery tickets", the legislators ought to be investigating their Welfare Department and not worry how people dress when buying lottery tickets.
Just another way the rich get richer and the poor get more poor.
If this thing does end up getting approved, at the very least they should allow welfare recipients to collect the winnings MINUS the amount they have been given in welfare. That way they would have all of their welfare checks paid back. I do not agree with disqualifying people from being able to win just because they are on welfare.
There are many of times where less wealthy people have won large jackpots. Its all about being lucky. Some less wealthy people are in financial ruin due to unforseen circumstances.
What if a child had to have a heart transplant which cost the parents every penny they had, and ended up having to recieve welfare? Why should those parents not be able to claim a jackpot if they won?
Not fair to ban them all
If they really wanted to quit wasting taxpayer money, they'd close the State House.
Look I think everyone here is missing the point! I think it needs to be done just like what ALL the states that have lotteries do already to those who win money over the $600.00 dollars that owe back state taxes or child support, take as much of it to satisfy just what they owe! And yes the Federal Government does the same thing to those who owe back child support or back Federal taxes that are getting a tax refund for any given year! They pay up every penny of what they owe before they can get any refund check!
And that's exactly what needs to be done to those who receive state assistance. Anyone who is on any state assistance program shouldn't be spending the money that's given to them by that states tax payers on gambling PERIOD! And those who are getting that assistance check and gambles that said money and wins any money over the the $600.00 dollars should have to forfit all of the winnings to that states assistance check program to satisfy all or part of what they have already received from that states assistance check program!!!!! No ifs ands or butts about it!
It's only fair to the tax payers of those states!
Are they serious? I sure hope this doesn't pass. Did it ever occur to these lawmakers that these people are playing to get OFF welfare. SMH
Social Securtiy payments are NOT welfare, you paid for that benefit during your working years each week by FICA taxes. Therefore, as you get benefits which you are well entitled to you should be able to do whatever the HELL you want and screw the Government for telling you what you can or cannot do.
"Perhaps the politicians should just grow a backbone and reform the welfare system, rather than tinkering with the lottery."
I thought you just said you did not like government intrusion? You do not agree or disagree,... how wishy-washy. Government is not telling people they cannot gamble, read it again. Nowhere does it say they are tinkering with the lottery. State governments that have lotteries do not tinker, but rather run it like a business. Is there something wrong with the welfare department doing the same? Do you know the terms of use the recipient signs to? There are use restrictions by LAW. That is backbone.
This is reform. I like these Republicans! They have backbone!
Wait until you hear the entertainment entitlements like subscription TV and internet are withdrawn. Persue happiness on your own dime. Welfare people are malcontent when it comes to what they think the government should do for them so there is no happiness they could ever be granted or persue through welfare. Entertainment is not a constitutional entitlement, anybody who thinks it is, is touching themselves.
DD
"Did it ever occur to these lawmakers that these people are playing to get OFF welfare."
Did it ever occur to you to consider the odds that they'll get off welfare that way? The lotteries generally pay out 50 cents on the dollar, and jackpots have odds starting at about 10 million to 1. On average it takes $10 million to win a jackpot of $5 million. If you think it makes sense to let people who claim to need government assistance to get by to spend $10 million so that one of them can win a jackpot and stop collecting government assistance there's a major flaw in your thinking process.
"The politicians stealing money from the citizens!"
Where do you think the money that people on government assistance get comes from? It's money from taxpayers. You know, money that you think politicians stole from people. I've got no problem with the government collecting taxes for things that are essential, but giving money to people on welfare so that they can play the lottery misses that list by a wide margin.
It's really simple. If you're on welfare and you can find $10 to spend on lottery tickets then your welfare payments are at least $10 more than they should have been.
wow now I have heard everything !!!! this simpleminded lawmaker is a complete fool ;
this attitude driven Klansmans and his folowers need to re-exaim their own lives before telling someone elese how to spend their moneyt.....
what about state contractors and lobbiest for the wine and beer industry???
they get tax dollars and who rents to the government office space ???
the pennys we give our citizens should be there money to-do what they think best.....
a lucky number could chang their whole life in an instant.........
Getting a job, is getting off welfrare , not gambling with tax payer money.
I guess if this bill would move one state over, I wouldn't be allowed to play the lottery at all either. Our family went on food stamps when my husband lost his job in April. Our amount that we receive has since been reduced since he found another job that pays a fraction of what he was making. So because we receive foodstamps ($88/mo., mind you...for a family of 5), I'm not allowed to spend a few dollars a week on a lottery?
When running for office, the pols like to TELL you it's a "benefit" or "entitlement" but it's nothing but a tax; the money goes into the General Fund. People think that by "paying into the system", they have the right to get payments back, later, but the courts have ruled otherwise.
Congress can change the rules on what they do with that money and who is "entitled" to receive it, at any time. See Flemming vs Nestor.
Gonnawin, technically if you held a job thru life and paid in state taxes, you deserve the programs offered when times get ruff. Sorry that some folks arent understanding of that dynamic to life.
I disagree with any law that inhibits a tax paying citizen yet allows any person ( non american) to claim and leave with the winnings....we dont seem to have a problem with that antic....
If the laws are over 18 and breathing...then that is that....
The state made it profits...this is double dipping....
gonnawinwatchme, I nor anyone else is saying that at all. I think most of us here have a problem with the assistance check that most welfare recipients receive is spent on the lottery instead of the children/family as intended (clothes, utility bills etc.)! I don't believe that a person who receives an assistance check is to spend any part of that money on any form of gambling, cigarettes or alcohol! That's the tax payers money that the state is giving away to people who can not support their family for whatever reason! And that's the only thing that cashed assistance check is to be spent on THE PEOPLE IN THAT FAMILY AS INTENDED, not the lottery!
He's a freshman legislator, who needs to build up some credits in the political arena, not protecting people. He must provide a more solid statistical research to convince people.
Just wait to see what happen to his votes next term. Because during this economic woes there are many people receiving "government" aids playing lottery. Their $1 dreams are being attacked; they will respond.
The main reason I think they don't tackle welfare reform, is because they lack Intestonal fortitude, nor testicles or both...!..
They need to stay out of peoples lives, instead of trying to lead them..
Barista, I respectfully differ with you ....a larger amount of folks are on it that use it wisely, yet its overshadowed and magnified by some of the incidences that are seen in larger city area groupings as opposed to small town workers who get yanked from jobs because the business ran off to mexico. In the matter of assistance checks...its very much managed the same way child support. PLease contact a lawyer on this, as I had to do, not a red cent needs to go to the child! Not one dern dime..its technically for the custodial adult , so until the laws change that child support actually goes to the childs welfare or care, we have no right to spew less then positive commentaries for welfare folks...statistically the average state residence(employed) pays less then half a percent a year to welfare assitance...most is contributed by the business tax's...You pay more in gas tax each time you fill up the pump!!! yet no complaints for folks who fuel up....
I disagree with any law that impedes someone who is poor to begin...surpressing them.....THink about it...if the person wins, they will go BUY things...increasing the economy.. (which Republicans LOVE!! ) and this should be a positive.....
I really think some class actions could transpire against Michigan if they discriminate in this manner...
dpoly1, we are the exploited, taxed, bankrupted, audited, feed, fined, foibled and fund-generating mice in the cage with the wheel. Your declaration doesn't mean much to a lifelong purveyor/recipient of government largess, who bows only to lobbyists and BIG Business. Sorry to burst your bubble, but we lost the "Citizen" status quite awhile back.
mjwinsmith, you can thank your lucky stars for the Obama "Miracle of Hope", as the Emperor revamps healthcare, social security, Medicare and the economy. Why, you might even have FIVE DOLLARS to wager, once Obama implements his full agenda!
Yes I agree. Also, this is discrimination of poor people and its unconsitunial and aginst our laws. What they should do is take what
monies they owe the system from their winnings, New York has a law that does just that.
It won't work. Just find a partner to cash the ticket.
So you're telling us you can't afford to feed your family without help from the rest of us, but you can afford to play the lottery?
well all the welfare recipients in Mi should go on strike!
i here you laugh. but i meana lotto ticket strike. not buy lotto or any lotto purchases for 6 months. see how the state gov like that drop in quick cash.
I know exactly what the odds are and I didn't say that is the ONLY way they can get off welfare it's one of many ways to get off the system. The same goes for people who are not on welfare, for some they play for a way out of their situation.
Speaking specifically for those that receive medicaid and food stamps.
Who says these people don't have jobs? Some of the people receiving benefits are employed they just don't make enough to make ends meet thus the need for food stamps or medicaid. Perhaps they have low wages and their employer doesn't offer health insurance so their options are to get insured by medicaid, hope they don't get sick, or pay the horrendous cost of medical care out of pocket which obviously they can't do if they are a low wage earner. Not everyone needing assistance is a leech!
So ......... instead of the winners getting off of welfare (if the win was significant) ...........
the GOVERNMENT takes the money .........
and the winners are still on welfare !?#$*
Only someone with a twisted sense of logic would find this ..................... logical !
its just a distraction tactic, get people squabbling over welfare people, and working people, isnt Mi a welfare state? didnt the guys riunning hte show cause all the troubles.
better blame and punish the poor instead of those really responsible.
yopu dont haver an auto industry,
a farmn industry
housing
realestate
better pick on the poor, everyone hates them.
vote the tea party unless this jerk is on their ticket. then vote someone else.
kick the whole lot out of office every election,before they get too comfortable.
The programs and, by extension, employees can't exist if not enough people need the "services".
This "twisted" logic is the budget backbone in many agencies and states.
People who are paid to put out wildfires have been known to set a few when they needed the money.
yeah i opolgise for making rash comments, i dont live there i dont know whats going on ill buttt out from here.
I was afraid to post about my situation because of responses like yours.
Yes, I spend $1-$2 a week on the lottery. If spending $5-$10/month on the lottery makes me a bad person, then so be it. I don't spend money on cigarettes, alcohol, or anything else frivolous.
Before my husband lost his job, I never asked for help from ANYONE. We ALWAYS stood up on our own two feet and now we can't. We're receiving $88/month for a family of 5. This alone only pays for my 8 month old's baby food and milk for the month. We don't use it for any of our own food because there simply isn't enough left over.
Thanks for the judgemental response, KY. I pray you never have to be in the position I'm in now and that you never fall down from your pedestal.
You hit on the point I was trying to make in my earlier posts. Your family has income it's just not enough. And if they would open their eyes they could see that you are one of the ones that has paid your taxes and now you need help. Some people just need to get off their I have all the answers soapbox and put themselves in someone else's shoes.
We have a government that can't keep businesses and banks from stealing poor folks money by giving them credit cards at usury interest rates. Or selling outdated and inferior food in super markets in poor neighborhoods now trying to keep poor people from trying to get some money from playing the lottery. I like the comment about using the money to buy clothes to go for a job interview. You'd also have to get a ticket to India or China since that's where big business is sending all the jobs. I say to these paragons of virtue to leave poor folks alone your screwing them enough as it is.
Sounds like we are trying to fix a 21st Century problem with 18th Century tools.
If any lawmaker thinks the State should penalize a welfare recipient by limiting the amount of money they might win from playing the lottery, there is something wrong with the welfare system or something wrong about the lottery. I will leave the final judgement up to you.
Maybe something's wrong with the "lawmaker".
They already do something like this in Florida. If the recipient gets any type of government payment in $$$ and or they owe child support. They Deduct it from the winnings at the lottery office. there was a story not too long ago about an older gentleman who won 1 million dollar scratchoff and only got like 1/4 of it due to deductions and Child Support defaults. He was really upset in the Interview because he did not know this, had he knew this someone else wouldv cashed the ticket.
In My Opinion there is always going to be a way around it.
Here is my humble opinion on the matter: I do not think that the state of Michigan should pass this legislation.
True, people who are on welfare or otherwise poor really should not play the lottery - they have better things on which to use their money - and if they do play, they should play only with the money they have. If they do win, then they will not need food stamps anymore; but if they do not win, and they have gambled away money that they do not have, they will face the consequences of their actions. I hope that those in the second category have the wisdom to link their excessive spending on the lottery to their poverty. It seems to me that this legislation might be being passed in an attempt to save people from themselves.
Your always gonna have people abusing the system. I was getting food stamps for a period of time and I would spend $1-$2 a week on a big game. If we start with lottery what's next? Telling people who get food stamps or welfare they can't buy a candy bar?
The welfare system needs to be overhauled. Drug test everyone on welfare - that's a good start. My husband and I struggled to make ends meet years back and then I see people going into welfare and they got more benefits than me cause they lied about everything on their apps. Overhaul welfare, leave the lottery alone.
Okay Mich, this is a double standard folks,now let's suppose this ruling takes place,
Next it would be the people who took bail outs
Then how far will lottery officials go back to see if you receive Gov benefits?
Many Many people have had to have help from time to time ,
It won't be long before you would have to have a Million dollars in the bank to even play the dang lottery,Get real officials ,you can't decide to take over a person's winnings if they are poor and getting gov help,not gonna happen
Rich or Poor everyone should have equal Options
when it comes to winning,Thanks everyone
AMEN to the drug testing!! I also think you need to be a United States Citizen to receive food stamps/welfare. When I was being interviewed for food stamps, my counselor seemed shocked that I was a US citizen.
I don't know how long ago you were on food stamps, but you are required to provide proof of income. When we started receiving, there WAS no income, so we received $786/month. Once my husband started his job, it was required to provide 30 days worth of paystubs and then the amount is determined from there.
I am going to play devil's advocate. This could be a counter bill by Democrats. Democrats think that people that earn over a certain amount are the "evil" rich. They say that those who have money don't deserve it, it is not fair that they have all of this money, and I don't. It is called class warfare.
Let us introduce another bill that would ban anyone with a combined family income of over $75,000 from playing. Or how about this: if you win any jackpot that is above your yearly salary, you have to donate the rest back to education. It is only fair, right? They have enough money already, don't they? Maybe we should only allow the middle class to play. The poor are only throwing away their money, and the "evil" rich don't need it, right? I have a good idea: let's require all elected officials to take a polygraph. Questions might include "Did you ever make a campaign contribution that you did not intend to keep?" Or "have you ever passed a law that was not necessarily in the best interest of the people, but suited your own needs?"
Oh what the hell. The government in some cases restricts the following: The way you dress (children in school). They need a uniform so that poor kids won't feel bad when they don't have the most stylish clothes. Whether or not you can tell the other kids what your parents do for a living. After all, a kid who's daddy is a firefighter or school teacher does not make as much money as the kid whose parent is a pilot or a doctor, for example. You wouldn't want the poor kid to feel bad would you? They tell us that we can't put toys in Happy Meals, because that causes kids to eat "bad" food, which makes them fat. Some states ban the carry of guns. This makes since, doesn't it? After all, guns kill people, not the criminals who holds them, right? They are banning KNIVES in Australia. They found out that after banning guns there, people started killing each other with knives, and guns (yes the criminals still have them).
The list goes on and on. Maybe the government should control EVERY aspect of our lives. We can go from citizens to complete slaves. Maybe they should tell us who we can marry. If you refuse to marry someone of the same sex, then maybe the government should force you to marry someone of another race. After all, us "breeders" are bad, and those who marry someone in their own race are "racist." I could go on and on. I am a Conservative, by the way, and I think ALL of these ideas are ridiculous: the ones I stated, as well as the proposed law.
Either let them spend the money the way they see fit, or don't give it to them at all. Quit trying to control every aspect of their lives. Which government programs are OK, and which are not? Are food stamps OK, and welfare bad? What about unemployment? If the people are hungry enough, they won't spend all of their money on the lottery.
And another thing, I have been employed in good paying jobs, and looked like a bum, either while working (at some jobs), or just to run to the store. I have also worn a suit while unemployed. You cannot for one second tell if someone is rich or poor, or in between, just based on what they wear. It is impossible. You can only guess, and you might be surprised at the number of times that you are wrong.
And what about the clean shaven guy I saw the other day, wearing a suit, and riding a Harley Davidson?
This is the most ridiculuos thing I have ever heard of and is just another example of what sad shape our country is in. I'm not saying playing the lotter is or isn't a good idea. But God knows, its hard enought to WIN the lottery because the state stacks the odds in its favor. Maybe you are poor and are hoping to win the lottery to help you get out of the slums. As I recall, just last month there was a story about someone who won the lottery just before they were about to lose their home--admittedly one happy store in a whole pile of sad ones for people who rely on the lottery for a way out. BUT NONETHELESS--Then you DO win the lottery and the state comes in and takes the money to pay for their own failed economy and poor money management. AS IF THE STATE DESERVES TO GET BACK ANY OF THE MONEY THEY BILK PEOPLE OUT OF. Sad, sad people. If the lottery provides anything, it's the hope, albeit mostly false but acceptable if played responsibly, of winning it big and having a better life. Hopefully this law falls through. What's next? Are they gonna say if you have credit card debts in collections and win the lottery, then those agencies can take your money before you ever see it?
Hee- hee hee,
Some progressive republicans want to reform Welfare and who would be against that? It is a perfect bi-partisan concept that will have near universal support. We all have to tighten our belts due to whatever it is in the economy that requires it. Why shouldn’t welfare people tighten their belts too?- this is too funny!
The real reason this is being presented this way is to pave the way for a $600.00 limit on any income without a W-2 report. The welfare thing is only the tip of the spear, it just so happens they are a good target to schmooze this thing into a law. This is a federal plan friends from the business wise conservatives who will fix their mess with the help of the IRS.
Any private commerce between two parties will have to have a paper-trail reckoning….for ,…. FEDERAL TAXES! The ‘Pub’s are working with the IRS to lock down on any kind of commerce over $600.00. That means you can live your dream, it’s just that when you spend over $600.00, you have to make sure it gets reported as well as the other party(s). Piles of paperwork and $,$,$!
Now what is all this talk that the Dem’s are the tax and spend demons? This is from spend and tax conservatives.
This is the republican solution to get some clams in the coffer? They are not just going to keep welfare people down, they are going to drag us down to be with them. Who caused this mess we are in? The business-wise Conservatives? Their solution to a trillion-dollar debt (they allowed through neglect and deregulation) is to tax everyone MORE! And this new Tax regime will make jobs! Jobs! JOBS! Government jobs to make sure you are paying tax on anything you buy, sell, win or receive that is over $600.00!
Only the republicans could dream this stuff up. It is so Rovian. What a business plan!
I really don’t think they want to win any elections and this is a two-term Presidency, by design.
Take a jet engine, get it warmed up and then throttle it up and throw a wrench in the intake. That wrench is Sarah Palin and the engine is the republican party and the TEA party. Now these clowns from Michigan are doing this to make the people of the USA financially responsible in some new way to pay off the looming insane debt that no one wants to own. Their only solution is to tax us like we have never been taxed before, all in the guise of welfare reform. The tax fad will sweep the nation like wildfire because the states are bankrupt.
It’s brilliant. The consolidation of wealth, the new taxing laws, the tighter control of citizen commerce so the people will pay the bailout; driving the middle class and upper-middle to the brink of extinction.
Too Funny! As of today 139 banks have failed this year. We are so bankrupt that we cannot admit it. Sharpen your awl, your belt will need some new holes when reality has your economic health running down your leg.
Talk about throwing an election! This whole thing is to get voter turnout and it will not favor the conservatives who are behind all this. Might as well have Rush Limbaugh tell everyone to vote for the other party like he told his listeners to vote for Hillary in 2008.
DD
Delta Draw, you apparently have no clue, because everything you said is backwards from reality. To say that Conservatives want to "tax and spend" ... I'm not sure what rock you've been hiding under, but that is preposterous. Your whole diatribe is filled with these backwards concepts that are disconnected from reality.
Note to self: Write new Screenplay with tentative title - Clueless In Seattle.
shwhite157! look here michigan if i am on welfare i need money in the frist place and if it is a big winner then give me my money and let me give back some of it to help others who are in need i think that if i am lucky to win a big prize then if the state helped me and my family i should put something back i think the way things are now if your are poor already any win would be a blessing look for money else where then keeping the poor poorer !! hell have you law makers ever thought if a person is playing lottery they want a chance to get off welfare if they get thier winnings and do dumb things with well lets say the great state of michigan can not keep helping dumb asses who know what it is to not have money get some and then mess it up
im agree with some of the things you are saying be if you never take a chance then you can never move forward do not think that because you are poor you should not take a chance if you have a dollar to by cookies or candy something that we do not need why not try a quit pick
you are right but if you win big the groverment take thiers off the top then they want to take more what is wrong with this picture
fair enough, time will tell.
Reality is what it is for you.
Did not John McCain say the economy was healthy a few months before blind bail-outs were paid by W? What a nice departing gift W gave and it was at the general public's expense. How can W cover the bad loans and people still owe the Banks?
"Now what is all this talk that the Dem’s are the tax and spend demons? This is from spend and tax conservatives." DD
Conservatives want to SPEND and TAX. That is what I wrote and you got that bassackwards. It is preposterous for you to spin it otherwise. That kind of twisted spin is like the lies you buy from Neocons like Karl Rove. His business plan will destroy this country and the money has been rolling into the TEA party from offshore. Foriegn countries are now the lobbiests with corporate representation paying for campaign ads. The states are bankrupt. The country is bankrupt. When you wake up and smell the coffee, all it will be is rerun grounds from an espresso bar.
139 bank failures for 2010 as of yesterday. Spin that! Do you even know how many failed last year? This decade?
DD
Right now there is conflict between the two biggest media whores. It is not about right and left, there will only be one standing when the dust clears. The economies of other countries are influencing our media- the Arabs have FOX. Beck goes after Soros at the call of his masters, a NPR reporter gets fired and is hired by who? Your reality is a flagrant violation of reality. The big money is non-partisan, they are mono partisan.
Methinks you err in considering Conservatives and Republicans to be cut from the same cloth and one and the same politically.
I find them more often these days to be mutually exclusive.
Hence, the Tea Party.
Have you ever tried posting when you're sober?
RR,
I am and was quite sober, but nice shot at my credibility.
You fail to see this Welfare reform was introduced by REPUBLICANS who’s last stand in the Whitehouse gave us SPEND and then TAX economics including private sector WAR economics. The big three were in DC before the election results and had appointment the day after the election (with their hats in their hands) for a bailout. The first of many under W’s last days. The REPUBLICANS nationalized corporate America. Who pays the bill? “Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
As for the Republicans and Democrats being cut from the same cloth, yes they are when the y are brought into the CFR: Council on Foreign Relations. The preparation is already in place to bring in so-called TEA’s who are elected with the helps of their deep pocket sponsors. The bribe.
As for the TEA party, it is a pipe dream and the shades of grey in what defines a conservative is quite apparent in the actions and speech of Sarah Palin. Palin has spent a fortune on advisers that go back to the Nixon administration. She is on her own and a flash in the pan. She serves a purpose in the confusion between what is TEA and what is Republican. She switch-hits for her own glory and the result is a divided right that is now not becoming more conservative, but harder right toward fascism. The TEA’s were not Republicans at the onset, they are Libertarians at the core. Don't be surprised if Palin starts quoting Barry Goldwater.
Palin will spend herself into the poorhouse because the advisors are REPUBLICANS, and she is serving a purpose to divide conservative citizens rather than the perception of unifying them under one of two banners. Nationalisn (FASCISM) is the underlying theme and the pupose Palin blindly serves without knowledge.
Your TEA Party was hijacked and bought out. The only thing left from it is the idealism. Dream on Dude.
Respectfully,
DD
My condolences to you at this time of personal loss.
It's heartening to hear of your recent sobriety.
That claim notwithstanding though, I still find it difficult to follow your line of reasoning. Half of the time it seems as if you're preaching to the choir and the other half of the time it seems as if you're preaching to the choir. If that sounds redundant it's because you appear to be preaching to two different choirs. You're all over the map attributing things to one group that belong to another and so forth. It's not even possible to be a devil's advocate against someone whose firmly planted themself on both sides of the fence.
You hi-lite and accentuate the fact that Welfare Reform was introduced by the Republicans as if that was a bad thing. Yes, they introduced it and passed it and dragged a kicking and screaming Slick Willy Clinton in to sign it. He now brags about it like it was his idea just like the balanced budget he fought against and then claimed as his own idea. Let's all toast Willy and have a cigar (Not one of yours though Slick, thanks anyway).
You belabor the Republicans for big taxes when it's the Democrats who do that. Remember the "Bush Tax Cuts" that Obama and the Democrats want to end on this coming January 1st? The "Bush Tax Cuts" cut taxes for everybody, not just the rich as the Democrats like to lie about. That's a fact, Jack. So you have it backwards on that point. It's Democrats who like to raise taxes and Republicans who cut them. Work on that, will ya?
The Obama campaign asked the Bush Administration to put the wheels in motion on the Auto Bailout after the election and I bet you knew that. If you expect me to defend Bush though, you'll have a very long wait - an eternity, actually.
I never said anything about Republicans and Democrats being cut or not cut from the same cloth - I said Republicans and Conservatives were not necessarily cut from the same cloth. There are far too many RINO's (Republicans in name only) who may as well be Democrats the way they lie and sell out. I would rather lose an election voting for a true Conservative than win with a RINO.
You said the Republicans nationalized corporate America? What? Who?
It is clear you have zero understanding of the Tea Party and very little of Sarah Palin. I just can't make any sense out of your fear of her. What is it about her taking on the corrupt Republicans in Alaska and defeating them and turning Alaska around into an efficiently run, effectively governed state that actually returns tax revenues and state income to it's citizens instead of looking for something new to spend it on and borrowing even more? What is it about that that scares you so much? I'd like to know which left-wing hate blog you get your info from on those two issues which inspire such fear on your part. That way I could go there and see where you're going wrong relaying the lies they tell you.
You are right to a certain extent about the Tea Party being hijacked though. The Democrats in Nevada have put up a fake "tea party" candidate to run in the Harry Reid - Sharonn Angle race. They are lying and cheating as usual to win the race for the slimy weasel Harry Reid. The fake "tea party" candidate is now polling about 2% among uninformed and misinformed voters who want to support the real Tea Party, which could possibly be enough to throw the honest election results out the window and give Reid the win. They are doing this in many races all over the country. It's pretty bad when you have to lie and cheat to win elections but that's what Democrats do.
So I think you may need to loosen up that tin foil hat just a little bit and get your info from more than the few narrow minded hate-blogs you seem to be frequenting.
Because as long as you're dancing for and marching to the drumbeat of George Soros with all his other mind-numbed robots who think it's trendy and fashionable to hate this country - as long as you're drinking the left-wing Kool-Aid and spouting the gospel of socialism and anti-Americanism, I'll stand against you.
Thank you for the condolences.
I almost fell off my chair when I read your statements. Did I HONESTLY read that right? The REPUBLICANS want to spend and tax??
1. I don't think it was Bush who created a stimulus bill that cost more than the war. Nope, it was Obama. Obama's "porkulus bill" cost $100 billion dollars, 15% more than the 8 YEAR WAR.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Little-known-fact-Obamas-failed-stimulus-program-cost-more-than-the-Iraq-war-101302919.html
2. Bush didn't create a so called "health care reform bill" during a flipping recession. Nope, that was Obama too! Oh, and this "bill" will cost us $940 billion dollars.
http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/mar2010/pi20100322_662113.htm
Did you also know that in that healthcare reform bill that "they just had to pass, we'll read it later" (according to Nancy Pelosi, that it is now a requirement for your employer to put what they pay for your healthcare benefits on YOUR w-2 and that "at this time" you're not taxed on it as income. Gee, I wonder what's coming next year? They claim we won't be taxed on it. Then why put it on my w-2 at all?
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/health-care-law-and-w-2-forms/
3. WHAT ABOUT THE NEW BILL THAT IT'S THE WORKS THAT OBAMA WANTS A 1% FEE ON EVERY BANK TRANSACTION?!?!? BILL HR4646
http://www.ohiofreepress.com/general/2010/h.r.4646-1-tax-transactions-financial-institution/
Sorry, Delta, but I think you need to get your head out of the sand and open your eyes. We are in a recession and these Democrats think America can just keep spending and spending. ENOUGH!
Okay, I know when I'm licked,.....all over.
One thing that is heard from both sides of the isle is that America is a great Democracy.
You Betcha!
DD
You are most welcome Sir.
What a way to avoid proving your point. You came raging on this thread, all about how it's the Republicans that are the spenders...yet, when faced with the hard facts about Obama's spending, not a peep....interesting.
All They Have To Do Is Take The Tickets To The Arabs And They Will Cash It. I Know Someone Who hit for $30,000 And The Arabs Cashed for a small fee wheras if they would have went to lansing they would have saw $0.
Never been on it and I have no problem with someone on any government assistance spending one or two bucks every once in awhile on the lottery, people who spend more and play excessively though? I doubt the percentage is so high that everyone needs to be punished. BTW, why do we still call it food stamps? I haven't seen any exchange of stamps ever (yes, way before my time) and the monopoly money in the booklets has been gone for years and years.. People get a card now. Besides that, if someone is on some sort of government assistance program, they already do have to pay it back if they win a substantial amount but I wouldn't be opposed to adding a fair amount of interest....
McMillin said his goal is to keep people in need from wasting money.
"They should save it and buy some clothes and food � and make sure they're looking good when they go out for a job interview," McMillin said.
Wow, this guy is a idiotic, presumptuous, judgmental ass and if he was in my district I'd attempt to tell him that to his face, but that shouldn't be surprising given he's one of our "wonderful" politicians here in Michigan. My goal is for the State of Michigan to stop wasting money, we could fix that by getting rid of these idiots, unfortunately that won't happen... Apparently he's never heard of the "working poor" which pretty much encompasses a large portion jobs that are left in this state with businesses getting chased out of it. Oh and yeah, if they want a job interview for something that pays well, the best thing they can do is save whatever money they get and move the **** out of Michigan like many already have along with various companies. His calling out Welfare recipients is ironic since he and the rest of the clowns in Lansing are the biggest recipients in the state, falling perfectly into the do nothing stereotype since they haven't done a <snip> thing to earn a nickle of their salary in over 30 years.
Michigan's unemployment is reported currently at 13% (Granholm is proud of this for some reason, I guess maybe because Nevada took over the number one spot) so IDK, maybe instead of wasting time and tax payer money playing with BS legislation such as this they could, oh I don't know... Actually work on saving the jobs that are left while inciting businesses to come back or people to start their own. Nah, it's an election year and they need some diversionary legislation to try and distract people from how they all deserve to be fired. Never mind that number dropping is misleading...
Saying that Republicans tax and spend is patently ridiculous. They may spend like drunken sailors, but as good, patriotic Americans, they fund much of their spending by borrowing the money. That makes it much easier for them to keep a straight face when they claim they're reducing your taxes and that they're better for you than "tax and spend Democrats". In reality, they're like somebody who buys a car with 5 year loan and claims they're saving money because the monthly payment is a few bucks less than if they took a 4 year loan. Sure, the monthly bill is a bit smaller, but the final cost is far more because it costs more when you borrow the money.
As far as who actually spends more money, there are a million ways to spin the numbers, but comparing spending to GDP gives an honest picture of what's happening. Here's a graph from USspending.com that shows spending since 1950, which let's us compare spending under various administrations: http://tinyurl.com/2wtwgrf Here's what that shows us:
- Eisenhower: sharp increase, followed by brief decline, and another increase. Finishes about 20% higher than at start of administration.
- JFK, LBJ: short increase, followed by decline, ending with an increase. Finishes about 7% higher than at start.
- Nixon, Ford: increase, decline, increase. Finishes about 13% higher than at start.
- Carter: 3 years of decline followed by one year increase. Finishes about 2% lower than at start.
- Reagan: starts with about an 11% increase, followed by decline, increase, decline, and ends with an increase. Finishes about 3% higher than at start.
- Bush 1: Continues Reagan increase for 2 years (+ 6.6%), then declines for 2 years. Finishes about 4% higher than at start.
- Clinton: 1 year decline and 1 year increase foillowed by 5 years of decline, finishing with an increase. Finishes about 6.6% lower than at start.
- Bush 2: 2 year increase, fairly steady for 4 years, finishing with 2 years of sharp increase. Finishes nearly 25% higher than at start.
Obama: increase so far, finishing about 4% higher than at start.
Summarizing, there have been only two administrations that saw overall decreases in spending, which were Carter and Clinton. The average change for all Democratic administrations was an increase of less than 1%. Every Republican administration presided over individual increases, with an average increase under Republican administrations of 13%.
How was all that spending paid for? I don't have info going back that far, but the Heritage Foundation has it for Clinton and Bush 2
( http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/06/federal-spending-by-the-numbers-2010 ). Under Clinton the total spending (in inflation-adjusted dollars) was $17.322 trillion. Clinton eliminated the deficit he inherited from Bush 1, and had a surplus in the last 4 years of his administration. Overall, 97% of Clinton's spending was actually paid for with revenue that was collected. Total spending under Bush 2 was $21.618 trillion (in the same inflation-adjusted dollars), but slightly less than 90% of it was actually paid for with revenue collected.
Democrats tax and spend. Republicans borrow, and spend more.
"it's one of many ways to get off the system"
So how many people on welfare have gotten off of welfare by playing the lottery? And how much did people on welfare have to spend in order to do that? That's the important part, which you must not understand. Having a handfull of people on welfare save taxpayers a few million dollars doesn't actualy help the taxpayers if they spent more than twice as much of our tax dollars as they save us by no longer collecting welfare. Make no mistake, that's how it works if somebody on welfare wins the lottery. Lottery prizes that would get somebody off of welfare pay back less than 50 cents on the dollar, so the best possible outcome is that taxpayers save 50 cents for every tax dollar that those on welfare spend on tickets. Justifying it by saying they do it to try to get off welfare makes no more sense than saying the same thing if they rob a bank.
"if they would open their eyes they could see that you are one of the ones that has paid your taxes and now you need help."
The problem isn't getting assistance when you're down on your luck. The problem is getting assistance that you don't need, and the plain fact is that if you can afford to spend money on a candy bar or a lottery ticket then you don't need as much help as you're geting to pay for the essentials that you actually need. I've got no problem paying a few bucks more in taxes so that people have a roof over their heads and don't go hungry. I do have a problem with paying more in taxes so that somebody doesn't have to stop buying lottery tickets. People can BS and delude themselves all they want, but that's exactly what some people here are trying to justify.
FYI, a candy bar can be bought with food stamps.
(no out of pocket expense there!)
So, by your line of thinking, people on welfare/foodstamps should also not be smokers or drinkers or even buy a pack of gum or a cup of coffee because that's something "you don't need", am I right?
You say you don't have a problem with getting assistance when someone is down on their luck, yet you jumped on me without even KNOWING my situation. I'd say that's purely judgemental and holier than thou. I think you just assumed that we've been on welfare for years and years and I'm spending oodles of money on lottery tickets every week.
Did you know that my husband lost his job after being with the same company almost 10 years? Did you know that at that time we had an 8 week old baby? Did you know that we've scrimped and saved to just try to keep a roof over our heads? Did you know that my car got repossesed because said roof was more important than said car? Do you know what it's like to have to choose between food for yourself and forumula and diapers for your baby? Do you know what it's like to talk to a foodstamp counselor and be embarrassed beyond belief?
No, I don't think you know what any of the above is like because if you did, you wouldn't be judging ME.
Again, it must be so hard to live up on that pedestal. I hope and pray that you never have to live what I've been living through.
Floyd, You earned a big wave here. I love those facts.
Now for anyone in a hardship, don’t be surprised if a few readers get their dander up when what you need is confused with what you want. Everyone has had to tighten their belts and many have had losses from stolen/lost pensions. This touches everyone in the average class. Can you live without the cigs and candy bar?
It sucks being poor and scraping enough together for a pack of cigarettes and a quart of Bohemia (53 cents long ago). It sucks having baked potatoes with salt and no butter. But it does not suck because it teaches one to live within their means, and the simple joys of a baked potato with salt is something to cherish. I chose the tobacco and beer over the butter and it was grand. I had a little over $70.00 in the bank and was not eligible for assistance. A humbling and revealing experience. I died three weeks later.
If someone needs entertainment and a dream, buy a deck of cards. Losing one’s job sucks and economic trials happen, but be thankful you don’t live in Haiti. Living within one’s means is rarely taught and is one of the reasons some are able to weather the storm. Consider the transient that has very little, yet can make a living looking sad with a sign. Many establish subsistence help and live large with less overhead.
There is a solution but spending money you need for your family on gambling is just plain wrong.
Baby needs a new set of shoes!
Nothing judgmental on how you live, and if it is- live within your means: pass on the candy bars, soda pop, icecream and lottery. End TV, internet and all the extras you can live without.Try cloth diapers and eat better. Be thankful you have a house to live in.
Enjoy a baked potato with salt and butter for a meal. Get an awl for your belt, awl stocks are trading heavily and are on the rise.
DD
"As far as who actually spends more money, there are a million ways to spin the numbers..."
Precisely.
And that post was one of them.
As someone from Michigan this proposed Law is _________ fill in the blank we all have deferring opinions, my take, reform welfare there are people out there abusing it and there are people out there who need it but can't get it. The consultations tell you to get the most help you need to get divorced so that the woman and children will get benefits, (no joke) just get divorce live together but not on paper and she'll get every benefit they have. There is something very wrong with the system and it needs to be fixed for the good of all people. This law just puts more money into the state funds and they sure don’t seem to know the best way to use it.
If one wins a big one, take all that the system has provided in the past and let them have what is left.
If they have lived off the system for years, then pay up.. and then live off the remaining.... Why not pay back so the system can keep helping those who aren't working and have nothing..
This lawmakers should spend more of their valuables time, figuring out how to create JOBS, so people will get off welfare.Then they would not have to worry about how people spend their money..
Yep...agree on reform part...there is huge problem with welfare system and yes they should reform it! (work off all that payraises they've gotten over past few years). Now....gov. telling you that you can't have money you win....hehe....sounds like communism. Let's say high hypothetical situation....you are single mother with 3 children, who goes to school and work to support her family (because children's father just doesn't). So..one day she stand in line in store and guy in front of her buys her a ticket, because she has most beautiful eyes he ever seen. Just one ticket!!! Pays cash, no name, no id on ticket. Gives to her and oh my she wins!!! (agree it's a very slim chance, but we can't really say it won't happen, right). Oh, boy! Real blessing, because she needs it so bad! Now she can actually afford to go to school full time, finish it, get great job that pays well enough to support her family and get off of that afing welfare!!! Later, she claims her prize and what are you know, sweet government tells her all she can get is $ 600, well, because she gets a medicaid for her children. But great news for her, she still eligible for medicaid benefits! Oh, my! She tries to tell them she did not spend that dollar out of her gov. help money, but law is law, right?
"FYI, a candy bar can be bought with food stamps."
That you can potentially spend all of your food stamps on snack size packages of Skittles is just one of the many reasons the system needs to be reformed.
"You say you don't have a problem with getting assistance when someone is down on their luck, yet you jumped on me without even KNOWING my situation."
That you're not a chronic welfare recipient is great, but I don't need to know your whole situation. You've already told us enough for the discussion at hand.
"Do you know what it's like to talk to a foodstamp counselor and be embarrassed beyond belief?"
No, but I'm not telling anyone I need help feeding my family while I can still manage to buy lottery tickets. That's the relevant point. If you can afford to buy lottery tickets you don't need (as much) taxpayer money to buy food.
As long as you take that money and still find money for the tickets you're buying those tickets with my money. Of course if you win a jackpot with a ticket that I paid for you're going to be perfectly willing to give me back my $1, right?
Feel free to offer your methodology for an even comparison. I'm sure you'd love to claim that republicans cut spending by x%, and you can find statistics that make that claim, but statistics also say that as an average American you've only got one testicle. Spending as a percentage of GDP is about as good a metric as there is since it accounts for inflation, economic conditions, and other things that skew simpler numbers.
I'm sure you'd love to claim that republicans cut taxes by x%, and again, you can find truthful statistics that claim that, but cutting taxes by x% and borrowing more than x%, or shifting the burden elsewhere is smoke and mirrors, not a real cut in the cost to taxpayers.
I think you've broached this subject before so let me be crystal clear this time: My testicles and their number are my business and I shan't be discussing them with you.
Two things here Floyd, one of the last things in the world I would want to be is an apologist for Republican spending and you would have to beinsane to defend Obama's spending.
Let's vote em all out.
I agree. It is counterproductive.
One person in Michigan got the 140 Mil MM. That will do much to help the person's family and the area's economy.
This is a great example of how government reacts to the people, they never apply this logic to themselves they fail the people and succed it taking away your rights and suppress you!
Do you know how far this "logic" can go?
If people live in welfair spend there money on lotto tickets instead of food then they lose out, thats fine, but you can't screw everyone over because of a few nuts who spend 50 bucks a week on it, if someone wins, then they should be able to get out of the gutter and pay there TAX on the money and end up paying back to the government WAY more then they took, it would make up for what the government pays many people in a life time if thats the case but the government is THERE for that purpose, they are for the people, it makes no logical sense to say if you win up to any amount that its ok and then say a larger amount is NOT ok, either it is ok or its not, that makes no sense, its a grab for money, you all are being manipulated!
Keeping the poor even more poor is the goal here, if someone feels the investment into a ticket is the way to go (that is what it really is its an investment) they WHO's business is it what they do with there money?
They are givin money to work with what they got, its how everything works, you don't act and treat people like its a police state, if the lotto thing goes nuts then just cap much money a month can be bought in tickets and when it comes to food stamps just say its only applicable to food (from what im reading thats not the case)
But the cost of lotto tickets are MUCH less then going to see a movie whcih can cost up to 20 bucks if you go with your husban or wife, maybe they should bar people from going there, how about we just go all the way and lock these people up and feed them nothing but slop in a bucket... no they are human beings, they have rights and suppressing the people even futher will not make things better, it always hurts everyone, this kind of logic AlwAYS being used is wrong, its like the drug companys, they want to drug everyone, did you know they suggest giving viagra to teenage boys who were healthy and had no negative physical problems at all?
This is all abotu manipulation, they want to do something, they make an excuse and then abuse it all to hell!
SO whats next, if your on welfare you can't invest? do you have to be a smart investor? is that it, everyone HAS to be a success in everyones eyes? thats unrealistic, basically because these poor people aren't winning they are losers who should be suppress in what they do, its there money, let they do as they want its THERE LIVES stop trying to FRICKEN CONTROL EVERYTHING!!
They don't get "to much" the poor are VERY poor, no one can get around that, there lives aren't better then the average joes, so if anyone is acting bitter saying to themselves "oh they have a free ride" its a crappy ride its why they are so desprate to play the lotto, PLUS they get something out of it, its fun, would you rather them sell there stuff or food for drugs? some don't do that, but if you start controlling people then you know what this is also discrimination, saying they aren't good enough or smart enough to make there own choises, just because a few are really bad, you can't go around and point fingers at everyone, thats the same kinda logic they use for racism.
You wanna know what you can do about it?
Maybe help create jobs and help business's get off the ground, here is a major problem, do you know how much it cost to just open a business? You have to pay so many fee's its rediculous!
Finally lets just put all the cards on the table. Before we look at gambling which can be bad but CAN be VERY GOOD! if you win you are set for life! you pay tax's your giving back... but before you even go there, why don't they look at the real costs and issues like enormous medical bills which cause the average American huge amounts of money, look at the cost of a bed, where is that money going? into the pockets of the super weathy who are manipulting people, this is a solid fact! Look at the cigarette costs over a month, look at the costs of excess alcohol, these are 100% destructive in these people's lives, but are these being adressed? no they are pounding at the one place where it might actually have a positive impact on these people.
If you say they have no power, you are teaching them they have no power there for they will do NOTHING and be NOTHING, if you control them like animals they will ACT like ANIMALS!
Let they do what they want with what they are givin, if they lose out in the end, they LEARNED A LESSON!
STOP TRYING TO CONTROL PEOPLE GOVERNMENT, ITS NOT YOUR PLACE!
I think Todd's last comment hits it on the head.
This is wild too, considering a woman was just in a TN gas station in front of me the other day and bought 2 coke's with a 'government card of some sort'. She was asking if it could still be used in TN as she was from MICHIGAN. The clerk said yes it is gov't so it can be used anywhere.
She then paid with cigarrettes and lottery with her cash on the side.
She was not your 'typical' image of someone on welfare but I have heard of others spending HOURS at the store playing lottery with what is obviously welfare cash.
Pi$$es me off!
Don't worry, I'm not actually interested in how many testicles (or ovaries, which are also statistically one to a customer) you might have. That's simply a great example of how easy it is to lie with statistics.
You certainly don't need to apologize for Republican spending, since I don't blame that on you. Still, if you're going to claim that I'm wrong in saying that, by any reasonable standard of comparison, Republicans have spent more than Democrats over the past 60 years the only honest thing to do is offer at least a bit more evidence than saying "did not."
I can actually agree with the basic idea of that last idea except for the problem of who we'd be voting in. Among other problems, history has largely shown that *all* of the people who have run for office have claimed they're going to cut spending and/or lower our taxes. The only exception I can think of off the top of my head is Walter Mondale. He said that both he and Reagan would raise our taxes. Since Mondale wasn't offered the chance I can't be sure what he would have done, but he was certainly right about Reagan. History has also shown that virtually all politicians have then gone on to raise our taxes. I'm sure there are a few more isolated examples, but the only ones that come to mind would be Carter and Clinton, as I pointed out in my previous post. History also shows that far too many of the candidates who pledge to do things for me have been far more interested in their own welfare.
As you have stated before: "There are a million ways to spin the numbers." I agree. You can go google any of this stuff and get facts and figures supporting any position you would like to take on any issue. Most of the blatant liars are on the left however. That's where most of the seething hatred lies. Some of their stuff is just downright vicious.
Once again though I'll tell you, I'm not a Republican so don't expect me to defend their spending.
I liked Ronald Reagan though. And a large measure of his spending was to rebuild the military which Jimmy Carter and the democrats had all but dismantled, hoping that if we disarmed, the Soviet Union would too. Nope, doesn't work that way. President Reagan made us by far the greatest superpower of all time again with a 600 ship navy to boot. The Soviet Union collapsed under the pressure of trying to compete. Democrats always starve the military and hope the tyrants of the world will have mercy on us. Then the Republicans have to vastly increase expenditures to return the military to it's former strength. It's a vicious cycle.
Harry Reid is a typical democrat weasel. He actually said "we lost" the war in Iraq and it was time to bring the troops home. Then Obama goes around the world apologizing for every bad thing that has ever happened in history and saying it was our fault and we're sorry and started bowing down to tyrants.
That's the kind of stuff that makes me not like democrats.
And they lie all the time. They have to lie or nobody would vote for them.
And democrat men are always weasel-like, like Harry Reid. You know, the limp-wristed, effeminate, cowardly, backstabbing type. I don't like people like that speaking for me or leading my country.
And democrat women are always ignorant loudmouths for some reason.
And do I have to name all the weirdo groups that support the democrats?
My parents were democrats but they wouldn't recognize the party today now that it's been taken over by the weirdos and the communists and the hate groups.
So no, I have no interest in defending who spent less or who spent more way back when. I'm more interested in the whole new dynamic of your party (who now openly joins communists in marches and rallies) trying to destroy our republic and how patriotic Americans are going to try and begin to stop them today.
I consider anyone who really knows what's going on and still votes democrat to be a traitor. Our White House is now full of them and the America-haters in Congress and elsewhere have slithered out of their holes to show their true colors and it is the duty of Americans not to give them aid or comfort.
Your party has the "stupid vote" wrapped up as they have for years by lying to them and keeping them bought off and I can't call stupid people traitors when they're just being stupid but anybody with a brain who votes democrat is a traitor to our nation in my opinion. Nobody with half a brain is stupid enough to vote democrat unless they agree with and support the campaign of Obama and his democrats and communists to destroy this country.
You can throw your lot in with the traitors if you like but there's a lot of us out here that still love this country and we'll do whatever it takes to keep it.
Believe that.
My condolences to you and your party on the election results later on today.
America wins - you lose.
Thank God.
"Once again though I'll tell you, I'm not a Republican so don't expect me to defend their spending."
You sure gave those Democrats a good thrashing! I can hardly wait to see the shredding you give the Republicans!
I know that was said tongue-in-cheek tc, but I'm truly no apologist for Republicans.
Congress is rife with corruption and lying, self-serving weasels on both sides of the aisle but the democrats have taken the practice to an art form.
But since the last election it has gone from corruption to sedition bordering on treason in my opinion on the left side of the aisle and in the White House.
Have you ever checked out any of the people Obama has surrounded himself with? His closest advisors and all the Czars he appointed? Do you think it's just a coincidence that they're all far left-wing radicals and avowed communists?
Most Republicans in Congress I wouldn't trust in the sh*thouse with a muzzle on but Obama and the democrats are actually trying to destroy this country. That's why they get top billing in my rants.
Intelligent people are starting to see what's really going on and that's why you're going to see a virtual, political bloodbath today all across this nation.
The dopes are saying "give him a chance" but the smart people know that what he wants is a chance to destroy what he considers this evil country of America. He hates this country and everything it is and everything it stands for. He thinks we are an evil nation. That's why he went around the world bowing and apologizing to tyrants and dictators. He apologized to the Emperor of Japan for bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki! Did he forget about a little something called Pearl Harbor? Do you want this idiot representing you?
Today is the first step to ridding ourselves of this evil cancer.
It's going to be a great day for America.
Thank God.
I'm all for helping the poor, and some social programs go a long way toward providing needed food, housing and medical care for indigents. I agree the recipients shouldn't be betting on the lottery with money given to them by the counties. We had a problem here in California where food stamps were being redeemed at half price, with the beneficiaries selling them to unscrupulous con artists who sold them back to the state at the full price. Cash received by food stamp recipients was used to buy cigarettes, booze, drugs and also for gambling. I believe they've remedied this problem with debit cards issued for a specific person. The state of Michigan is on the right track by restricting their welfare population to purchasing what they are paid to purchase.
"I'm all for helping the poor..."
"... social programs go a long way toward providing needed food, housing and medical care for indigents."
Then give them your jackpot when you win and donate more to charity and kick in more for taxes.
Stop expecting everybody else to pay for your ideas of what would be "fair."
I wish the LP boards would allow us to cut out everything except the parts we want to quote...
Anyway, yeah people are forgetting (the failure of history classes and the spin being put on the history doesn't help) but even worse is just how many people don't really know or understand what Japan's role in WWII was outside of bombing Pearl Harbor. They see the Japan of today through some of those wonderful rose colored glasses and big eyed cartoon characters, unable to comprehend that in a number of ways Japan and its military at the time was worse than Nazi Germany. While we trot out Germany's skeletons freely since it and that one guy were the poster child of WWII, Japan's role has been largely swept under the rug.
I read your post before you deleted it twinkie.
That wasn't very nice.
But I forgive you!
You're still my little twinkletoes! ------------------>
Well, Michigan citizens may as well go and live in Communist China because living there would be less intrusive! What a <snip> nerve. I think it's an absolute fallacy and fabrication that the poor are buying lots of tickets. They may have one or two dollars to spare and if they buy a million dollar winner (or whatever) then they are entitled to the win wherever the money came from and it's nobody's <snip> business how they came get that win. Grrrr... Are the poor to be denied any pleasure because they may have had the misfortune to lose their job? Jobs which paid their taxes for years. Sheeesh!
I ask, are the poor walking the street naked? Are they starving to death on the streets? NO! Know why? They buy their necessities and they if they have a couple of bucks left they buy a ticket. Absolutely disgusting proposal, and I hope it doesn't pass.
"NO! Know why? They buy their necessities and they if they have a couple of bucks left they buy a ticket."
You are living in a fantasy world. Money management is way beyond most people and especially the poor, unemployed welfare idiots. That is the major subset of welfare recipients. The idiot portion seems to account for approx 80% of those receiving welfare.
They will visit several food centers to get all the free food that can fit into the back of a pickup truck. (Frees up a lot of lottery money that way).
They will turn their furnace up in winter and leave the front door wide open - because they get heat bills paid by the State.
Many women will illegally add to their welfare amount by hooking and/or selling drugs.
I've yet to stand in line and hear welfare people call out a couple of numbers.
Here's the thing, the State decided long ago to let the welfare people manage their own money, instead of dictating exactly which dollar is to be used for rent, heating, electric, etc; So, if they would simply put into effect mandatory management for the welfare amounts, THEN they can dictate no spending for lottery tickets. If they leave management up to the recipient, then they can buy whatever they want, including lottery tickets.
Just stop them by law from coming back and crying that they ran out of money!
Absolutely!
yeah big gov out of our lives, but you can gocontrol those poor saps lives all you want.
just wait till the Big Gov tells ytour to invest your 401ks, and that will US treasury bills, bcuz no other saps will be stupid enough to buy em
America will be back once we get rid of the rest of the communists in 2012.
In the meantime, go chase a kangaroo or something.
New York has such a law
Section 131-r of the New York Social Services Law provides that any recipient of state public-assistance funds who wins a lottery prize of $600 or more must “reimburse the [state department of social services] from the winnings,” up to half of the prize amount:
and one person took it ot court.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1539129.html?DCMP=NWL-pro_2nd
I am totally against a law that would prohibit people on assistance getting money they won. Any reform should be done by ensuring that the people on these programs are reporting income via viewing their income tax files. We All should file taxes each year and that would be the basis for any challenge that arises in the future. At least as long as we still have income taxes. Either adoption of the Fair tax or a flat tax and lieing on form would be liable to federal penalties as it is now. Or also deletion on taxing only income, allowing tax exclusions for those with good estate tax accountants, and estate planning attorynies and financial anaylys!\\
Revise the system if needed.
Politicians good and bad, maybe we can cut down on roads built to nowhere. (smile)
"maybe we can cut down on roads built to nowhere."
I agree with you 100%!
We paid to have a very long road built to nowhere in Nevada already.
Turns out it wasn't actually to nowhere after it was finished though.
Turns out Harry Reid has property at the end of that road.
What a coincidence.