Dice vs Lottery Games: Is it Fair to Compare 1-1 vs 1-2-3-4 . . . ?Prev Topic Next Topic

New Topic New Poll

BlueDuck

Appleton, Wi
United States
Member #118,173
October 24, 2011
199 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 2:49 pm

Is the reason why "7s" show up most often in Dice, the same reason why "150" shows up most often as the "Most Probable Sum" in a 6/49 Lottery Game?

or to ask the question another way,

Is the reason why rolling a 1-1 or 6-6 infrequent for the same reason as why a draw of 1-2-3-4-5-6 or 44-45-46-47-48-49 is infrequent in Lottery?

Still trying to get my head around this one. Your insights appreciated.
savagegoose

adelaide sa
Australia
Member #37,135
April 11, 2006
3,341 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 2:55 pm

yes

" Still swinging, still missing "
2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 = -1171; 2017 = -1257 ; 2018 = - 1380 = TOT = - 6233

keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= -424; 2017 =-427; 2018= -223 TOT = -3968

:
haymaker

Egg Harbor twp.south Jersey shore
United States
Member #112,963
June 29, 2011
4,160 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 2:59 pm

W/ the dice,the 7 shows the most often is because it has the most possible ways of happening.

the "150" i have not a clue if can be compaired .

Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds -- Charles Mackay LL.D.
savagegoose

adelaide sa
Australia
Member #37,135
April 11, 2006
3,341 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 3:05 pm

Quote: Originally posted by haymaker on Mar 17, 2012
W/ the dice,the 7 shows the most often is because it has the most possible ways of happening.

the "150" i have not a clue if can be compaired .

yeah the 150 is the most common sum, just like 7 is the most common sum on the dice. he confueses the question by mentioning 1 2 3 4 5 6 , if he wants to bee at cross purposes, he should mention all the results that sum upto 150,

i wont do the math , but on dice there are 6 results in 36, that sum to 7, and only 1 reuslt that sums to 2,

on lotoo its similar, so many sums that add to 150, and onlt 1 sum that adds to 21.

try graphing the sums

" Still swinging, still missing "
2014 = -1016; 2015= -1409; 2016 = -1171; 2017 = -1257 ; 2018 = - 1380 = TOT = - 6233

keno historic = -2291 ; 2015= -603; 2016= -424; 2017 =-427; 2018= -223 TOT = -3968

:
haymaker

Egg Harbor twp.south Jersey shore
United States
Member #112,963
June 29, 2011
4,160 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 3:15 pm

never thought of adding up my #s,i'll have to try this.

does this also work w/ a 6/40 game like cash 5 ?

Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds -- Charles Mackay LL.D.

rdgrnr

100

The Hall Of The Mountain Kings Tennessee
United States
Member #73,902
April 28, 2009
15,378 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 3:33 pm

Pick 3 Sum Chart

0 - 000
1- 001
2 - 002, 011
3 - 003, 012, 111
4 - 004, 013, 022, 112
5 - 005, 014, 023, 113, 122
6 - 006, 015, 024, 033, 114, 123, 222
7 - 007, 016, 025, 034, 115, 124, 133, 223
8 - 008, 017, 026, 035, 044, 116, 125, 134, 224, 233
9 - 009, 018, 027, 036, 045, 117, 126, 135, 144, 225, 234, 333
10 - 019, 028, 037, 046, 055, 118, 127, 136, 145, 226, 235, 244, 334
11 - 029, 038, 047, 056, 119, 128, 137, 146, 155, 227, 236, 245, 335, 344
12 - 039, 048, 057, 066, 129, 138, 147, 156, 228, 237, 246, 255, 336, 345, 444
13 - 049, 058, 067, 139, 148, 157, 166, 229, 238, 247, 256, 337, 346, 355, 445
14 - 059, 068, 077, 149, 158, 167, 239, 248, 257, 266, 338, 347, 356, 446, 455
15 - 069, 078, 159, 168, 177, 249, 258, 267, 339, 348, 357, 366, 447, 456, 555
16 - 079, 088, 169, 178, 259, 268, 277, 349, 358, 367, 448, 457, 466, 556
17 - 089, 179, 188, 269, 278, 359, 368, 377, 449, 458, 467, 557, 566
18 - 099, 189, 279, 288, 369, 378, 459, 468, 477, 558, 567, 666
19 - 199, 289, 379, 388, 469, 478, 559, 568, 577, 667
20 - 299, 389, 479, 488, 569, 578, 668, 677
21 - 399, 489, 579, 588, 669, 678, 777
22 - 499, 589, 679, 688, 778
23 - 599, 689, 779, 788
24 - 699, 789, 888
25 - 799, 889
26 - 899
27 - 999

SergeM

Economy class
Belgium
Member #123,694
February 27, 2012
4,035 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 4:29 pm

Quote: Originally posted by BlueDuck on Mar 17, 2012
Is the reason why "7s" show up most often in Dice, the same reason why "150" shows up most often as the "Most Probable Sum" in a 6/49 Lottery Game?

or to ask the question another way,

Is the reason why rolling a 1-1 or 6-6 infrequent for the same reason as why a draw of 1-2-3-4-5-6 or 44-45-46-47-48-49 is infrequent in Lottery?

Still trying to get my head around this one. Your insights appreciated.

In combinations the order does not matter.

For one dice the average is 3.5! You can't get that one! I hope to have helped you to some insight to the stupidity of mathematics!

For 1 to 49, the average is 25. ...

Every combination has the same chance. It is only that you filter or count the combinations by some criteria.

Generally, I don't care about sums. You can also order the combinations where the first one is 1 to 6, the second one is 1 to 5 with 7, and so on.
I put this in VBA and checked out the results. ...

The drawings generally, roughly fit to the probability scenarios that you can calculate. This for frequencies and skips.

Rolling a 1-1 is as frequent as rolling a 3-3 or 3-4 if you consider the order of rolling.

I will finish by writing a book on the lottery and gambling.
SergeM

Economy class
Belgium
Member #123,694
February 27, 2012
4,035 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 8:01 pm

Sum-table for eyes of two six faced dices:

d+d 1 2 3 4 5 6

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

2 3 4 5 6 7 8

3 4 5 6 7 8 9

4 5 6 7 8 9 10

5 6 7 8 9 10 11

6 7 8 9 10 11 12

6x6=36

Sums Count Graph

2 1 l

3 2 ll

4 3 lll

5 4 llll

6 5 lllll

7 6 llllll

8 5 lllll

9 4 llll

10 3 lll

11 2 ll

12 1 l
BlueDuck

Appleton, Wi
United States
Member #118,173
October 24, 2011
199 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 9:36 pm

Quote: Originally posted by haymaker on Mar 17, 2012
never thought of adding up my #s,i'll have to try this.

does this also work w/ a 6/40 game like cash 5 ?

Haymaker,

...... that's what I'm trying to figure out for myself, if it works or not. You can find "Sums Charts" by Googling "Most Probable Range of Sums".

BlueDuck

BlueDuck

Appleton, Wi
United States
Member #118,173
October 24, 2011
199 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 11:15 pm

Quote: Originally posted by rdgrnr on Mar 17, 2012

Pick 3 Sum Chart

Hi Rdgrnr:

I'm scratching my head over this problem and my computer got bumped out before I was done so will try it again a little bit latter. Thanks for reply.

I'm not convinced it works if all those combinations in the pick three, or other lottery, get picked an equal amount over time.

BlueDuck

rdgrnr

100

The Hall Of The Mountain Kings Tennessee
United States
Member #73,902
April 28, 2009
15,378 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 11:38 pm

Quote: Originally posted by BlueDuck on Mar 17, 2012
Hi Rdgrnr:

I'm scratching my head over this problem and my computer got bumped out before I was done so will try it again a little bit latter. Thanks for reply.

I'm not convinced it works if all those combinations in the pick three, or other lottery, get picked an equal amount over time.

BlueDuck

You're welcome, BlueDuck.

All I can tell you is that whatever theory you decide on, there will be a few who agree and a few who will say you're nuts and both sides will cite facts and figures.

Me?

I'll just drink a big ol' glass o' whiskey.

Cuz that's what I always do.

Good luck!
BlueDuck

Appleton, Wi
United States
Member #118,173
October 24, 2011
199 Posts
Offline

Mar 17, 2012, 11:53 pm

Quote: Originally posted by savagegoose on Mar 17, 2012
yeah the 150 is the most common sum, just like 7 is the most common sum on the dice. he confueses the question by mentioning 1 2 3 4 5 6 , if he wants to bee at cross purposes, he should mention all the results that sum upto 150,

i wont do the math , but on dice there are 6 results in 36, that sum to 7, and only 1 reuslt that sums to 2,

on lotoo its similar, so many sums that add to 150, and onlt 1 sum that adds to 21.

try graphing the sums

Savagegoose:

Thanks for reply. I can understand why "7s" show up more often in Dice, because there are six ways, but there is only one way to make "the winning combination" in a Lottery. Not 5 ways not 150 ways, just one way. Looking for a convincing solution.

BlueDuck
BlueDuck

Appleton, Wi
United States
Member #118,173
October 24, 2011
199 Posts
Offline

Mar 18, 2012, 12:53 am

Rdgrnr,

If only half think I'm nuts, then must be doing pretty good.

BlueDuck
KY Floyd

NY
United States
Member #23,834
October 16, 2005
4,772 Posts
Offline

Mar 18, 2012, 1:43 am

Quote: Originally posted by BlueDuck on Mar 17, 2012
Is the reason why "7s" show up most often in Dice, the same reason why "150" shows up most often as the "Most Probable Sum" in a 6/49 Lottery Game?

or to ask the question another way,

Is the reason why rolling a 1-1 or 6-6 infrequent for the same reason as why a draw of 1-2-3-4-5-6 or 44-45-46-47-48-49 is infrequent in Lottery?

Still trying to get my head around this one. Your insights appreciated.

As others have said, the answer to the first question is yes.

I'd say the second question is a completely different question because of the way you asked it. 7 and 150 aren't specific results, and can be reached in multiple ways. Even if you view 1+1 and 6+6 as sums, they can only be acheived by rolling one specific combination. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 is a specific result, and is every bit as likely as any of the specific results that add up to 150.

With the dice you can bet on the sum and it won't matter which of thespecific results add up to that sum. The odds and payout will also be different for different sums. With the lottery you don't win anything just because your set of numbers has the same sum as the winning numbers, and the odds and payout are the same, regardless of the sum of the set you bet on. It's more likely that a set that adds up to 150 will be drawn than a set that adds up to 50, because more sets add up to 150 than add up to 50. That means that the sum is a completely meaningless number for 6/49.
BlueDuck

Appleton, Wi
United States
Member #118,173
October 24, 2011
199 Posts
Offline

Mar 18, 2012, 12:40 pm

Quote: Originally posted by SergeM on Mar 17, 2012
In combinations the order does not matter.

For one dice the average is 3.5! You can't get that one! I hope to have helped you to some insight to the stupidity of mathematics!

For 1 to 49, the average is 25. ...

Every combination has the same chance. It is only that you filter or count the combinations by some criteria.

Generally, I don't care about sums. You can also order the combinations where the first one is 1 to 6, the second one is 1 to 5 with 7, and so on.
I put this in VBA and checked out the results. ...

The drawings generally, roughly fit to the probability scenarios that you can calculate. This for frequencies and skips.

Rolling a 1-1 is as frequent as rolling a 3-3 or 3-4 if you consider the order of rolling.

I will finish by writing a book on the lottery and gambling.

SergeM:

You give me a lot to chew on in your post. If that euphemism didn't translate, I want to say: you give me much to ponder.

Thanks,

BlueDuck

New Topic New Poll

Subscribe to this topic

d+d	1	2	3	4	5	6
1	2	3	4	5	6	7
2	3	4	5	6	7	8
3	4	5	6	7	8	9
4	5	6	7	8	9	10
5	6	7	8	9	10	11
6	7	8	9	10	11	12

Sums	Count	Graph
2	1	l
3	2	ll
4	3	lll
5	4	llll
6	5	lllll
7	6	llllll
8	5	lllll
9	4	llll
10	3	lll
11	2	ll
12	1	l

Dice vs Lottery Games: Is it Fair to Compare 1-1 vs 1-2-3-4 . . . ?Prev TopicNext Topic

Dice vs Lottery Games: Is it Fair to Compare 1-1 vs 1-2-3-4 . . . ?Prev Topic Next Topic