Texas United States
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Quote: Originally posted by KY Floyd on Nov 14, 2019
" there's a *predetermined method for how they draw* which directly counters the very definition of 'random.' "
You're completely confused about some combination of what the method does, why it does it, and what random is. Randomly selecting numbers with absolutely no control would mean that any of the infinite numbers that exist could be selected. The "predetermined method" that's used to select lottery results eliminates all of the numbers that aren't part of the game while ensuring that the selection of the numbers used in the game is random.
"Why isn't the 5 in the same position not a random event?"
When an event is random we can't possibly know why it happened, other than it being one of the possible results. We also can't necessarily recognize that an event happened because the results weren't random.
"If they pull the ball set, then they are trying to control something that is supposed to be perfectly random."
All they're doing is swapping in a different ball set when the tests produce a result with a probability that's below some threshold because they can't know for sure why they got a result that's unlikely. If the unlikely result is because some unknown circumstance is causing results that aren't completely random they have to make a change in order to get a random result. OTOH, if the ball set has simply produced a random result changing to a different ball set that produces a random result meets the drawing requirement of producing a random result. Given the other security procedures I think it's overly cautious to swap in a different ball set but such practices would have prevented the 1980 Pennsylvania 666 result when th balls were weighted.
"what would be the purpose of pre-testing unnumbered balls"
You don't need labels on the balls in order to test some of the machine's functioning, but labels allow for a better test. Besides the theoretical possibility that something about the balls would skew the results there's also the possibility that the machine wouldn't adequately mix the balls before selecting them. Using the numbered balls allows both the balls and machine to be tested at the same time.
"those numbers and combos were still drawn, okay, and still factor into the overall odds of things occurring."
Anybody who thinks that tests affect "the overall odds of things occurring" doesn't understand how probability works, for one reason or another. If the game is pick 3 the odds of any particular result are always 1 in 1000. It's 1 in 1000 for each test drawing and its 1 in 1000 for the official drawing. Despite the common delusion, the previous results, whether its test results that immediately precede an official result or previous official results, have no effect on subsequent results. Whatever 3 digit number you play has a 1 in 1000 chance of being drawn regardless of whether or not it has occurred in any previous drawing and regardless of how many hours you've spent analyzing previous results in an effort to predict what's going to happen. There's a reasonable argument that the pre-tests are unnecessary or even a waste of time, but they have absolutely no effect on the official results.
"we AND the lottery have no way of knowing how the pre-tests are affecting our wins and losses."
See above. I don't know about everyone here, but the lotteries and I know that the tests have no effect on whether you win or lose. The only effect they have is to get some people riled up.
Hello KY Floyd. If you will, I'd like it if you could explain the reasoning of your response to my post because, to be quite frank, I really am confused here.
Randomly selecting numbers with absolutely no control
Okay, the definition of 'random' does in fact mean no control. It just happens without any process what so ever. I'm sure you'll disagree but, you'll also be disagreeing with Merriam-Webster's definition of 'random.' In my honest opinion, they simply 'launder' the combinations under the pretense of pre tests.
any of the infinite numbers that exist could be selected.
In this 0-9 game, just what are the 'infinite numbers?' The word 'infinite' is defined as 'limitless' and there's a limit to what can be drawn in both Pick 3 and Pick 4. 9-9-9 for Pick 3 and 9-9-9-9 for Pick 4. The corresponding minimums are 0-0-0 and 0-0-0-0. Agree or no?
The "predetermined method" that's used to select lottery results eliminates all of the numbers that aren't part of the game
So, if the 'predetermined method' I described eliminates numbers that "aren't part of the game" then, exactly WHY are they eliminating those numbers...when ALL the numbers and combos ARE actually part of the game? Wouldn't 'eliminating' ANY of the numbers actually be tampering with the 'random' aspect?
ensuring that the selection of the numbers used in the game is random.
*It is !00% impossible to 'ensure' that an occurrence is random. These two very words, used in the same very sentence, completely cancel each other out on every level.
My response here contains zero sarcasm, what so ever, and I'm honestly wanting to understand your reasoning. Thanks.
Small games, frequent wins, and regular payouts 'cause.....
There are seven days in the week...'Someday' isn't one of them.
NY United States
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"what are the 'infinite numbers?"
They're all of the numbers that exist. They start at -∞ and extend to ∞. And they're all numbers that could be selected in a process that was absolutely random.
"WHY are they eliminating those numbers"
The only numbers that are eliminated are the infinite numbers that aren't part of the game. Pick 3 or 4 doesn't work when it's possible to pick numbers that are less than 0 or more than 9 (or the infinite numbers that are between 0 and 9, but not whole numbers). To accomplish that the games are controlled by using only balls that have the (whole) numbers 0 to 9 on them. That makes perfect sense to most people, but your post seems to indicate that you think that by having a " *predetermined method for how they draw* " that the drawing somehow isn't random. The only control the predetermined method has on the results is using only the numbers that fit the game. It's true that that means the selection process isn't absolutely random, but the selection from the balls that are used is random.
"It is !00% impossible to 'ensure' that an occurrence is random."
I'm sure it is impossible to ensure that an occurrence is 100.000000000000% random with the methods used by the lottery. Maybe it's impossible to ensure that an occurrence is 100.00000000% random. That doesn't mean it's impossible to ensure that the process results in the occurrences being random by any reasonable definition. For each selection of one ball from the set of 10 the process is random enough that each of the 10 balls are equally likely to be selected, give or take an extremely small fraction of 1%. That means that while the chance of selecting any particular ball may not be 10.00000000% it's not more than perhaps 10.0001% or less than 9.9999%. For anyone who's evaluating the process from a rational perspective that's random.
If you think that the tests themselves have any effect on the randomness then your concept of randomness is incorrect. They can have a predetermined method for conducting tests, decide how many tests to do based on a random or arbitrary choice, or occasionally decide to skip the tests and it doesn't matter. Each individual drawing is its own random event that's totally independent of any other drawings.
Bearflag Republic, Los Angeles Division United States
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Quote: Originally posted by Kuntryblack on Nov 8, 2019
Now something just don't look right here.I mean come on tax paying citizens look at the closeness of the two numbers now?That is to much of the same number, don't ya think.Whoever is controlling the numbers are doing some slick under handed crap downtown Atlanta!! Think about how done other lottery states have caught individuals cheating the lottery games!Now don't think Ga.is an exception, because desparate people will do desparate things when it comes to to money!!
Ohio United States
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Quote: Originally posted by grwurston on Nov 19, 2019
Just this month. And it ain't over yet. Maryland. Yeah, it's all completely random.
11/5 Mid 357
11/8 Mid 735
11/19 Eve 375
11/15 Mid 274
11/19 Mid 427
11/13 Mid 561
11/17 Eve 951
11/4 Eve 968
11/7 Mid 869
11/11 Mid 816
11/14 Mid 186
11/9 Eve 850
11/18 Eve 085
Are you playing and you taking advantage of this random induced pattern? Looks like the lottery is throwing you a bone. Best grab it while it's there.
You arranged the drawings in an order that exaggerates the appearance of non-randomness. Look at the drawings you posted in the order they were drawn. Then look at the drawings for all of Nov. to date. You can line them up anyway you want to fit your needs, but in the end, it's all random.
You are attempting to show something that is not random, when in fact, it is still random. Go to any state results page and you can pick and choose drawings all day long that line up just as you did for Maryland.
Your pick and choose drawings arranged in an order to imply non-random drawings.
11/05/19 Mid 357
11/08/19 Mid 735
11/19/19 Eve 375
11/15/19 Mid 274
11/19/19 Mid 427
11/13/19 Mid 561
11/17/19 Eve 951
11/04/19 Eve 968
11/07/19 Mid 869
11/11/19 Mid 816
11/14/19 Mid 186
11/09/19 Eve 850
11/18/19 Eve 085
Your pick and choose drawings in chronological order. You start to see a more random order, don't you.
11/04/19 Eve 968
11/05/19 Mid 357
11/07/19 Mid 869
11/08/19 Mid 735
11/09/19 Eve 850
11/11/19 Mid 816
11/13/19 Mid 561
11/14/19 Mid 186
11/15/19 Mid 274
11/17/19 Eve 951
11/18/19 Eve 085
11/19/19 Mid 427
11/19/19 Eve 375
All drawings in November to date. Enough said.
11/01/19 Mid 261
11/01/19 Eve 733
11/02/19 Mid 205
11/02/19 Eve 891
11/03/19 Mid 511
11/03/19 Eve 892
11/04/19 Mid 376
11/04/19 Eve 968
11/05/19 Mid 357
11/05/19 Eve 522
11/06/19 Mid 331
11/06/19 Eve 493
11/07/19 Mid 869
11/07/19 Eve 906
11/08/19 Mid 735
11/08/19 Eve 605
11/09/19 Mid 207
11/09/19 Eve 850
11/10/19 Mid 638
11/10/19 Eve 139
11/11/19 Mid 816
11/11/19 Eve 414
11/12/19 Mid 354
11/12/19 Eve 927
11/13/19 Mid 591
11/13/19 Eve 900
11/14/19 Mid 186
11/14/19 Eve 905
11/15/19 Mid 274
11/15/19 Eve 272
11/16/19 Mid 196
11/16/19 Eve 706
11/17/19 Mid 536
11/17/19 Eve 951
11/18/19 Mid 089
11/18/19 Eve 085
11/19/19 Mid 427
11/19/19 Eve 375
NY United States
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"You arranged the drawings in an order that exaggerates the appearance of non-randomness."
If he wants to argue that the results aren't random there's nothing wrong with putting his "evidence" in an order that makes it easier to show what he wants to show, and what he wants to show is that "similar" results happen on dates that are "close" together. That makes organizing them by grouping the similar numbers together perfectly sensible. I'm also sure there's no deliberate attempt to mislead us, because I'm sure that he actually believes that what he's showing us actually means something.
Of course what he's not showing us is anything about the actual probability of those results.
United States
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Quote: Originally posted by Mr-B 216 on Nov 20, 2019
Are you playing and you taking advantage of this random induced pattern? Looks like the lottery is throwing you a bone. Best grab it while it's there.
You arranged the drawings in an order that exaggerates the appearance of non-randomness. Look at the drawings you posted in the order they were drawn. Then look at the drawings for all of Nov. to date. You can line them up anyway you want to fit your needs, but in the end, it's all random.
You are attempting to show something that is not random, when in fact, it is still random. Go to any state results page and you can pick and choose drawings all day long that line up just as you did for Maryland.
Your pick and choose drawings arranged in an order to imply non-random drawings.
11/05/19 Mid 357
11/08/19 Mid 735
11/19/19 Eve 375
11/15/19 Mid 274
11/19/19 Mid 427
11/13/19 Mid 561
11/17/19 Eve 951
11/04/19 Eve 968
11/07/19 Mid 869
11/11/19 Mid 816
11/14/19 Mid 186
11/09/19 Eve 850
11/18/19 Eve 085
Your pick and choose drawings in chronological order. You start to see a more random order, don't you.
11/04/19 Eve 968
11/05/19 Mid 357
11/07/19 Mid 869
11/08/19 Mid 735
11/09/19 Eve 850
11/11/19 Mid 816
11/13/19 Mid 561
11/14/19 Mid 186
11/15/19 Mid 274
11/17/19 Eve 951
11/18/19 Eve 085
11/19/19 Mid 427
11/19/19 Eve 375
All drawings in November to date. Enough said.
11/01/19 Mid 261
11/01/19 Eve 733
11/02/19 Mid 205
11/02/19 Eve 891
11/03/19 Mid 511
11/03/19 Eve 892
11/04/19 Mid 376
11/04/19 Eve 968
11/05/19 Mid 357
11/05/19 Eve 522
11/06/19 Mid 331
11/06/19 Eve 493
11/07/19 Mid 869
11/07/19 Eve 906
11/08/19 Mid 735
11/08/19 Eve 605
11/09/19 Mid 207
11/09/19 Eve 850
11/10/19 Mid 638
11/10/19 Eve 139
11/11/19 Mid 816
11/11/19 Eve 414
11/12/19 Mid 354
11/12/19 Eve 927
11/13/19 Mid 591
11/13/19 Eve 900
11/14/19 Mid 186
11/14/19 Eve 905
11/15/19 Mid 274
11/15/19 Eve 272
11/16/19 Mid 196
11/16/19 Eve 706
11/17/19 Mid 536
11/17/19 Eve 951
11/18/19 Mid 089
11/18/19 Eve 085
11/19/19 Mid 427
11/19/19 Eve 375
I wasn't trying to exaggerate anything. What I was trying to show was the pattern of how the numbers were repeating 3 and 4 days apart.That's why they're not in any chronological order.
Since the 357 repeated 3 times I listed that first, then the two 4 day apart repeats, then the two 3 day apart repeats, and finally the 9 day apart repeat. The 357 also had a 3 day apart repeat. It is what it is. Was that a random pattern or a non random pattern? I guess that's up to the individual to decide.
But the bottom line is, did you spot the pattern and get any wins from it? or
United States
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March 28, 2019
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Quote: Originally posted by grwurston on Nov 20, 2019
I wasn't trying to exaggerate anything. What I was trying to show was the pattern of how the numbers were repeating 3 and 4 days apart.That's why they're not in any chronological order.
Since the 357 repeated 3 times I listed that first, then the two 4 day apart repeats, then the two 3 day apart repeats, and finally the 9 day apart repeat. The 357 also had a 3 day apart repeat. It is what it is. Was that a random pattern or a non random pattern? I guess that's up to the individual to decide.
But the bottom line is, did you spot the pattern and get any wins from it? or
Click "Evaluate" to refresh it. Most times I've run it I've found a set of two or three drawings that have the same digits, and sometimes I find more than one set. I've often found the exact same number drawn twice, and other coincidences that many people think are evidence of the lottery tampering with drawings. The PRNG algorithm used by the sagecell server has not been compromised or tampered with by any lottery organization.
I just used the default random() function, but you can read the Sage documentation to replace it with a cryptographically secure pseudo-random number generator and I'm pretty sure you'll not notice much difference in how random the results appear.
Edit: Here is the same code run on a different python server with a different CSPRNG
https://repl.it/repls/GullibleQuietNumber
I'm still finding plenty of instances of repetition.
Kentucky United States
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February 14, 2006
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Quote: Originally posted by grwurston on Nov 20, 2019
I wasn't trying to exaggerate anything. What I was trying to show was the pattern of how the numbers were repeating 3 and 4 days apart.That's why they're not in any chronological order.
Since the 357 repeated 3 times I listed that first, then the two 4 day apart repeats, then the two 3 day apart repeats, and finally the 9 day apart repeat. The 357 also had a 3 day apart repeat. It is what it is. Was that a random pattern or a non random pattern? I guess that's up to the individual to decide.
But the bottom line is, did you spot the pattern and get any wins from it? or
"Since the 357 repeated 3 times"
Sure a box combo repeated, but there is a huge difference between winning $80 and $500.
Fayetteville, Tennessee United States
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September 1, 2018
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Your free to think what you want!!#But for me i think all rng machines are set to roll out a number with a certain percentage of payout for that draw! And when a trip or high payout comes they remove the payout percentage from the system! Hence trips and quads fall! You cant tell me a number that hits on the 7th 17th and 27th of the same month is random! Just like when mr tipton the one who rigged the rng on the hot lotto told them that most rng machines hold dates and repeat to often! Do the lotterys know! Yes they do but when asked about it being rigged there fall back is! Its all random any number can hit at anytime ok im good with that but same dates and back to back same numbers no im not good with it! Something is wrong with rng machines. And you who do not believe go look at a state that does ball draws and compare the repeats#
I-95 United States
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Quote: Originally posted by Rngrepeats on Nov 20, 2019
Your free to think what you want!!#But for me i think all rng machines are set to roll out a number with a certain percentage of payout for that draw! And when a trip or high payout comes they remove the payout percentage from the system! Hence trips and quads fall! You cant tell me a number that hits on the 7th 17th and 27th of the same month is random! Just like when mr tipton the one who rigged the rng on the hot lotto told them that most rng machines hold dates and repeat to often! Do the lotterys know! Yes they do but when asked about it being rigged there fall back is! Its all random any number can hit at anytime ok im good with that but same dates and back to back same numbers no im not good with it! Something is wrong with rng machines. And you who do not believe go look at a state that does ball draws and compare the repeats#
the 7th 17th and 27th of the same month is random!
Wait i'm confused and don't understand? why not just exploit the flaw if it is one? i'm curious do players of lottery games look for patterns of that nature
Ohio United States
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February 15, 2017
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Quote: Originally posted by GuesssWork on Nov 21, 2019
the 7th 17th and 27th of the same month is random!
Wait i'm confused and don't understand? why not just exploit the flaw if it is one? i'm curious do players of lottery games look for patterns of that nature
Thank you GuessWork! Exactly my point. Rather than accuse the lottery of "cheating" you, why not take advantage of what is being provided to you.
Philadelphia, PA United States
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March 24, 2014
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Quote: Originally posted by Stat$talker on Nov 8, 2019
Been there, done that..!!.. Apparently I'm NOT the only one who suspects hanky panky in Downtown Atlanta's Lottery Headquarters...although, I have paperwork to back it up.. it's why , I keep saying
"Math doesn't lie, because it can't"...
Years ago, I contacted the State's Attorney General's Office about similar complaints, based upon the Math's suggestion of tampering...
I received what I considered a most insulting response to one's intellect from an elected Official..
The Office's reply to me was that... "They called the Ga Lottery and voiced my concerns,.. blah, blah .. etc"... Whaaaat?...!! , so that says that, If I were to, for example, squeal on a neighborhood house selling crack cocaine.. the stupid morons would call the house first, to ASK them are they selling crack cocaine, BEFORE investigating my claim?.. Duuhhh..!!
I wonder, what did they think they'd say?...
"aah, yea.. We're riggin the Lottery"...of course not...criminals may be sometimes impracticably overambitious, but they aren't dumb..!, at least they don't seem to be quite as naive as some Elected Officials here..! IMO
-Stat$talker
What do you expect a Multistate game commission to say to you? Why write a letter? It's because they have to pull some type of excuse. Think about that for a moment. Do you think they will admit to something?