The so-called "truths" behind all of these points are in fact lies masked in false propaganda. The American people aren't buying this.

Below I have provided the facts that destroy each of the 5 statist talking points that you have pasted into your blog. I'm certain that you have pasted text written by someone else, rather than typed it yourself, since it includes footnote markers to non-existent footnotes. In the future, please be sure to provide a direct link to the source of someone else's text, because these days people frown upon text lifggted from another person's blog without providing credit to the author by linking to it.

These words are my own, not pasted from some other source. I hope you'll take the time to read it, because this is packed with factual information that I have researched, not a bunch of hyperbole and fluff.

Each of the numbered sections here deals with the numbered points in your pasted text.

1. The Death Panels have been further explained in great detail, by Sarah Palin, since she was the one who pointed them out in the first place. It is absolute fact that under government (socialist) health care there will only be so much money, and so many doctors, to go around. Just like in every country it is tried, government-run health care will ration health care, providing the care to the people the system deems most valuable. Elderly people with expensive care near the end of their life will be denied expensive life-extending treatments, and will instead be counseled about ending their lives "with dignity". That, my friend, is a death panel. I don't want it for myself when I grow old, and I don't want it for anyone in my family. Perhaps you do want it, but that should be an independent choice made by every person, not something imposed by the government on everyone.

2. The Democrats are indeed outlawing the creation of any new private plans in the bill. It's a fact. As Obama says in such a slippery manner, "If you like you existing plan, you get to keep it." But then what he fails to mention is that as soon as you want to switch carriers, or as soon as your private health insurance company no longer offers your plan, or as soon as you switch companies and need to move to another plan, you will be *forced* onto the government plan. Plus, most small companies will not be able to afford the massive annual financial penalties of sticking with a private health plan, so they will drop all private plans and switch everyone to the government plan. It is estimated that initially, 84 million people will be switched to the government plan. That number will be near 100% within a decade.

3. It is a simple fact that there are limited funds to go around, and there almost certainly will be fewer people willing to become doctors after the socialist health plan is implemented. Just like in every country it is tried, there will not only be rationing of services and procedures, but there will also be lengthy wait times to get necessary treatments. Need that hip replacement? Be prepared to take pain killers for 5 or 6 months while you wait your turn. And the wait times will increase as the number of qualified doctors decreases. Did you know that the government will control where doctors are allowed to practice medicine, and what type of medicine they are allowed to practice? That's because under the plan they need to control how many doctors of what type service every area of the country. If you're a pediatrician and want to practice in your home state, under the plan you could be denied and forced to practice elsewhere because the government says there are already enough doctors of that type practicing there. The doctors' incomes will also be capped, in order to try to cover everyone while maintaining the massive bureaucracy, so that alone will lessen the number of people who become doctors, and the quality of doctors will decrease.

4. The government plan will indeed make a bad system worse, especially for the elderly. There is no secret plot, it's right out there in the open. So I guess your "lie" about it being a "secret plan" is correct. It's not a secret plan, it's a clear-cut plan that anyone can see if they take the time. I assume you're pasting your text from some other source, because I have a hard time believing you could actually type words to the effect that the government would *save* money. Can you please name one single government agency in the history of mankind that saved money? Just one? Of course you can't, because it doesn't exist. Politicians and political hacks like to save that "the new _____ system will save money by eliminating waste, fraud, and more!" but that is a bunch of baloney. The same politicians say that the VA is a great system, but we all know the truth about that one. Just imagine something much bigger and more bloated. For example, did you know that the UK's government-run health plan is the 3rd-largest employer of any company in the world? It employs more than one million people, making it *impossible* to get rid of, because it would put a huge percentage of the population out of work. Now, the UK, is much smaller than the USA, which means that the US plan would become the largest employer in the world. Is that the big cost-savings that you were describing?

5. The socialist health plan will indeed add so many trillions of dollars to the debt (last I read was nearly 10 trillion) that it will be impossible to pay off. I'll just say it again so it can sink in: it will create a perpetual debt that will always exist. I'm not sure what you mean by "bankrupt", but in my view that comes so close that it's the same thing. Plus, your "won't bankrupt the country" point is a straw-man argument that debates a lesser point: people are much MORE concerned that because it will strain the financial limits of the country (whether or not it is officially "bankrupt"), health will will most certainly be rationed. i.e., provided to the people the government approval panel deems "valuable" and "most worthy" (bang for the buck, if you will).

I never intended for the text to be of my own doing. The source is from Move on.org.

1. Todd, why is it "facts" when republicans point things out, yet when the opposition says something it's lies. In the first point above, they have a link to the legislation for anyone to see. I haven't read it yet, but I'm sure they wouldn't have just blatantly put it up and crossed their fingers that no one would take the time read it. Also, it's very hard for me to think that anyone can know for sure what's going to happen with so many variables that exist. You say there won't be enough doctors and so on, but no one knows for sure how things actually pan out until all the wrinkles get ironed out. Both sides of this argument have arguments, and they both have agendas. I clearly admit I don't know a lot about all of this but i do know that comparing other countries with this system that is being presented is just not right. We're talking about different countries and different customs, people mindsets, and many other factors which may alter a duplicate outcome. That's like saying democracy won't work in Iraq. Of course it won't because they have different mind sets that have been in existence for thousands of years up until now. So, to say it didn't work in other countries doesn't mean it won't work here.




2.Where does it say they will force you if you switch carriers? It seems to me that there is lot of self interpretation going on here, or it's those AM radio nut jobs brainwashing the people out there. The president clearly stated many times that it'll be like a wide variety menu to choose from. You can tailor your own specific health care budget plan. I always hear the republicans talk about letting the free markets decide. But now you seem afraid of small business competing with govt. health care plans, and folding. Well, that's the market working. With all the greed and corporate structure of flaky business practices is why we are in this mess to begin with. Like another poster said here a little while ago about runaway capitalism. What I've read is that it'll be closer to what Sweden has for health care.

3. Looks like the pre existing lack of qualities is just as bad, if you believe that's what will happen if the reform gets passed. In just reading the above examples given, it seems people are already being duped. The existing system doesn't work. At least allow for some new ideas. There's a lot of suspicious already going on and I think it can only be an improvement. It's more about options, and I'm sure most people who could never afford insurance will be more than happy to wait a little longer, than NOT to have any help at all.

4. Much of the reason that the VA and others don't run effeciently is because of waste. You said it yourself. Sure the govt. isn't good with those programs but "Change" is the key word here. In his town hall meeting he clearly stated that the money saved and the bureaucracy diminished was the key in making the programs work. To run smoothly, you need to eliminate waste. You have to understand, no one really has tackled all these issues in such a short time. I'm sure leaders have discussed certain aspects in the past, but not a whole revision or part revision I should say. He doesn't claim to have a magic wand. He knows it won't be easy, but we have to start somewhere because it isn't working now. The cost right now, to the taxpayer for providing health care to uninsured is about $7,000 per person. Since hospitals cannot refuse treatment in emergency cases, and when most of the time the patient can't afford to pay the thousands or more in bills, the cost then gets passed to the govt. which the taxpayer eventually pays.

5. The Federal reserve's system is even more sinister with perpetual debt built in it's lending practices to the govt. than this will ever be, but i don't hear any outrage about them.

With such a huge debt already in existence with the stimulus package, I think the whole system will crumble anyway, because even without this reform coming to fruition, the huge debt we have will never be paid off, especially if the Fed is allowed to keep lending money to the govt. and the banks in the manner it's been doing for decades. It's designed in such a way that it will be impossible to ever get ahead. You want to talk about evil watch the link below. The Federal reserve is the main reason why this country is going down the tubes, not Obama, or any other person or entity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEZfMruLMSI

I also want to mention that I favor no one side. I like tid bits from both sides. However in this case, I like the reform. People are scared of change.

Anyways, I won't post anymore opposing views if it bothers you. I know this is your site, and you probably don't like others to say what's on their mind if you feel it's inaccurate. I was simply putting my 2 cents in.

Joker, any program that the feds get their hands on is bound for failure, especially one as large as they are proposing. Just listen to what BO said: "FEDEX and UPS are just doing fine, but the US postal service well you know..........................."

As far as putting YOUR two cents in, you didn't, you put in MOVEON.org's propaganda. Just look in Craigs list they are paying for concerned people to show up, get paid and pretend they know what the phuck they're talking about.

Jarasan, my two cents come from hearing both sides of the argument. Where do you get your 2 cents from? I read your blogs from time to time, and I see words used by others like the likes of Rush Bimbo and all the right wing talking heads. Are you telling me you have some secret source that no one knows about? Not just you, but just about every time i see a blog by anyone about this, i see talking points.

If you took the time to read my response you'd see that there were numerous times I portrayed my opinions about this. I don't think anyone has a monopoly on truth, and that includes you.

You have your right wing sources that I'm sure you paraphrase. Give me a break Jarasan.

I will stick to the point, I did read your response(s) and to quote you,

Comment #2:

" I never intended for the text to be of my own doing. The source is from Move on.org."

I believe I don't need to give you a break, because I believe you've gotten plenty of breaks already, you don't need one from me.

And know this, nobody owns any words. Words are free just like the butterflies.

Jarasan, that statement was in response to Todd asking me to show the source and I did. I then wrote in my own words a response to Todd's comments about it. That was my 2 cents. What part don't you understand?

What do you mean...I've gotten plenty of breaks already?

Maybe if you addressed some of the points instead of "trying" to be witty, I'd take you a little more seriously.

@Joker: All of your comments are predicated on the false idea that the current system doesn't work.

It DOES work. That is not a "conservative viewpoint", it's based on overwhelming public opinion.

When 84% of people surveyed say they're happy with their health insurance, it is working well. Getting 84% of the people to agree on ANYTHING is good, but to have them agree that their current health plan is good really says it all.

Pardon my bluntness, but i is rather strupid to throw out the entire health system because 16% of the people don't like their health plan. The smart approach -- doesn't matter if you're liberal or conservative -- the SMART approach is to help out that 16%, not destroy the system that 84% of the people like.

So far, the only thing liberals can come up with is the implementation of socialist health care. Are you under the illusion that the only workable solution for that 14% is for a government takeover of health care?

On the other hand, the Republicans in Congress have put forward several *detailed* proposals to fix health care for everyone, including that 14% who don't like their health care right now.

Don't you want to at least find out more about what they're proposing, or are you so taken with Obama that you can't break free of the hynotic trance he's putting people under? Do you believe everything proposed by a Republican is bad? It's pretty sad if that's the case. I hope you'd be more open-minded than that.

Well, the first thing I thought when starting to read this post was: Go look at the video Todd posted of Obama saying on camera that EVENTUALLY EVERYONE WILL BE ON THE ONE GOVT HEALTH PLAN. That is, the one payer system. NOthing they do is in ONE Giant step, it's all done incrementally. Right now a poor person can go to the hospital and get free care! They have to take care of you! If no $ and no insurance then the county pays the bill. This is true all over the country. Even illegal aliens are treated for free right now in the U.S.






1

Joker, what makes you think the current health care system is broken? Please post one fact which points out how the health care system is broken.
As for me, I like what it have. I worked for it; I planned for it; I did things that disgusted me in order to keep it. I planned my life so that my family had health insurance.
Now you and others who think like you want me to give up what I worked so hard to achieve so that those who did not plan, did not care what the future held, did not seek out those jobs that paid for their health insurance come the retirement years, will have what I have.
As for the death panels, you are correct in thinking the current House plan does not call for such. What you are missing, what you can not see for the truth lies further than six inches from your nose, is the "end of life counseling for the elderly" which the plan calls for. Just what do you think those counseling sessions will turn into ten years from now?   
There is an elderly woman in Oregon right now, today, who needs $4,000 a month in medical care. She has been told the state will not pay for her medical needs but they would be glad to pay for her suicide pill. Yes, you read that right; SUICIDE PILL.
About ten years ago the gay community came up with a slogan: "Keep your laws off my body". Today I say: "Keep your laws off my heath care!"