If he can't seem do understand what a blessing hand he has been dealt.  Let me talk to him.  I'll show him how he can seem to get rid of that burden that money has been giving him.  He has so much money he will not spend it in his lifetime.  At the rate he's going, that lifetime will be over shortly.  I think he forgot I was his long lost relative though. (lol - smile)

Quote: Originally posted by whodeani on December 8, 2004

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Hey all what is the over/under on the number of days it will take Jack to be caught for driving after suspension????? I will say 16.

Now that he can't drive maybe Jack will walk around with $100,000+ in his pockets instead of stashed away in his Hummer somewhere.

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Good post Jim 695, I agree with it.

>Mr. Whittaker can behave in any manner he chooses, without danger of significant consequence, because he's rich and you're not. His station in life is far above that of the common man, so he cannot be held to the same rigid standard as those who languish beneath him.

Financially, someone like Jack is not and cannot be financially punished the way you or I would be for the same offenses. If I had done the same things as Jack - car totalled, drunk driving arrest, lawyer fees, insurance premiums jacked as high as can be, 24 days house arrest - I would be bankrupt, unemployed and my 401k and savings that took me years to build would be emptied from the expense.  So even if I were treated with the same "kid gloves" I would be punished far more just because the expenses I had are a much higher percentage of my net worth than a rich person's. 

So the main factor for Jack is the hassle involved in all this. It's just strange that he chooses to drink and see strippers in ways that open him up to such hassles when he could afford to do the same things in ways that don't open him to arrest, car crashes, robbery etc.  

Quote: Originally posted by jim695 on December 9, 2004

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....My position is that the United States Constitution isn't worth the parchment it's written on. It's only there to give you something to believe in, like the Easter Bunny, leprechauns or Eskimos (my apologies to Homer Simpson)....

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I couldn't disagree stronger.  Your statement is a slap in the face of some very courageous men who framed one of the greatest documents ever.  It established a basic set of rules that formed the greatest country the world has ever known.

Don't say that you weren't talking badly about the men themselves, or some other justification, because you went on to criticize those men for a number of different things.

Only God is perfect, so yes, those men had their failings.  But the fact that they were fallible is not the point.  The point is that this country, and in fact the world, has not been witness to more courageous, more righteous people than those who founded this country.

I believe your personal issues and/or dissatisfaction with your station in life should not be the basis to launch an attack on this great country's founding fathers and framing documents.

And one more thing.  I don't like it one bit when someone has a problem with a rich person winning the lottery.  Anyone who enters has an equal chance of winning, and that's the way it should be.  It smacks of socialism to say that a lottery prize should be distributed to someone based on need.

And if that person wants to be a fool, then we can all criticize him and laugh at him, but it's his choice whether he wants to be a fool or not.

The lottery is entertainment, so if you're that poor that you NEED to win, then you shouldn't be playing.  Save your money.

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on December 9, 2004

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And one more thing.  I don't like it one bit when someone has a problem with a rich person winning the lottery.  Anyone who enters has an equal chance of winning, and that's the way it should be.  It smacks of socialism to say that a lottery prize should be distributed to someone based on need.

And if that person wants to be a fool, then we can all criticize him and laugh at him, but it's his choice whether he wants to be a fool or not.

The lottery is entertainment, so if you're that poor that you NEED to win, then you shouldn't be playing.  Save your money.

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I just want to thank you for that post. I was walking around at work today feeling quasi-depressed because it seems the further I get ahead the deeper the hole is dug. (got a raise got hir4ed from temp to full and the medical and dental and other various expenses ate the entire raise and then some *heh*) As I sit reflecting on the day with a cold beer, I again thank you for honing my focus. It's as we believed all along *grins* we are trapped in the Matrix and it does indeed Have Us!

Maverick:

Thanks for your comments; I'm always glad to hear from you, even when you don't agree with me, because you actually contribute something to the topics that interest you.

I don't necessarily believe that the working man is a sucker. Quite the contrary; without unskilled labor, mass production might still be nothing more than an idea bouncing around in someone's head, but with no manpower to carry the concept to fruition.

The point I was trying to make is that a man with an MBA can steal hundreds of millions of dollars under the guise of some corporate banner, and he's hailed as a brilliant tactician in the business world. However, if an unemployed high school dropout steals supper for his family from a grocery store, he's tossed into jail, awarded a criminal record which will haunt him for the rest of his life and, upon his release from prison, he's made to feel like an outcast by the very society that created his circumstances. It's true; Justice is blind. But she has a deep-seated revulsion for those without means. 

Funny thing is, I have no problem with that. Those are the rules; that's The Way Things Are. If equal justice under the law weren't the myth that it is, the high school dropout would be congratulated for his courage and determination to provide for his children, and he'd be offered a job. That's The Way Things Should Be. 

Fortunately, if we're aware of the double standard, we can safely and totally ignore The Way Things Should Be, since it doesn't matter, and just focus on The Way Things Are. In other words, we can't win the capitalism game unless we play by the same set of rules that govern the wealthy. There is no law to prohibit the working poor from playing by those rules. The problem is, they're not aware of them; they still believe everything they've been taught since childhood, and that's how they govern their own lives. We're taught to leave the stock and commodities markets to the experts, because it's too complex and risky. In reality, the opposite is true. This is no quirk of fate; it was engineered this way. Hence the adage, "Most people are too busy earning a living to make any money." People in general fear the unknown and what they believe they can't understand.

I'm not criticizing these people; many working-class people are perfectly happy being working-class. I empathize with those who put their hearts and souls into a new business, only to see it fail, taking their life savings with it, because they did everything right, the way they were supposed to. Honore de Balzac wrote, "Behind every great fortune, there is a crime." There are always exceptions, of course, but from what I've read and learned of American history, this statement contains more than just a grain of truth.

I'm a great believer in capitalism in its purest form, and I won't pretend that I'm above this type of base behavior, because I'm not. I've lied and said that I had the requisite experience in order to secure a lucrative contract to write or edit a technical manual. I lied the first time I was hired to write a speech for the mayor of a nearby city (if you think I'm going to mention his name, think again; he likes my work). I lied because that's what I had to do to get my foot in the door. I've lied while under oath in civil court, because that's what I had to do in order to counter the blatant lies of the defendant and his greasy attorney. That doesn't make it right; that's not The Way Things Should Be.

People who are driven to succeed will go to lengths others would not dare, for fear of breaking the rules. For example, it's widely believed that Bill Gates stole Microsoft's Graphical User Interface (MS Windows) from Steve Jobs and Apple Computer. In truth, they both stole it from Xerox PARC at about the same time (technically, Apple had it first, but Jobs didn't think it was necessary to secure the rights to the technology; Xerox didn't think so, either). I certainly don't mean to compare myself to Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, but I do want to point out that they were willing to do things that Gary Kildall wouldn't even consider. Vision, drive and passion are what separates common criminals from extraordinary business leaders.

Common sense and a modicum of intelligence certainly doesn't hurt anything. Common criminals are really more stupid and shortsighted than most people give them credit for. Consider this: if you rob a liquor store in Indiana, you'll do 20 to 50 years hard time in state prison. If you rob a bank, though, the mandatory ten years you'll spend in federal custody (Title 18, Section 2113, SS (B)) will be a breeze by comparison. Yet, people still rob liquor stores every day. Why? The only reason I can think of is that they must be standing closer to a liquor store than a bank when the notion first strikes.

I'm getting off-track here. I'll sum up by bringing up a point I had hoped to read in a response to my initial commentary: Many people are perfectly content playing by the familiar written rules. That's fine; in fact, those people are critical to our way of life. If everyone were rich, separation of the classes would no longer exist, and America would quickly fall. But those of us who want to reach for the stars must realize that we can't attain those lofty heights without standing on the shoulders of a thrifty working class, who actually produce our goods and services for low wages. That's The Way Things Are; that's American commerce. True justice would dictate that these are the citizens who deserve to make millions, while the CEO collects $9.00 an hour for sitting in his office scheduling his next tee-off time or making paper clip necklaces.

Since Jack Whittaker is the subject of this thread, I looked up a quote from Horace that I think sums up his current circumstances:

"Fortune makes a fool of those she favors too much."

Good Luck, Jack; I hope the next twenty-eight days will help you turn things around.

Quote: Originally posted by Todd on December 9, 2004

I couldn't disagree stronger.  Your statement is a slap in the face of some very courageous men who framed one of the greatest documents ever.  It established a basic set of rules that formed the greatest country the world has ever known.

Don't say that you weren't talking badly about the men themselves, or some other justification, because you went on to criticize those men for a number of different things.

____________________________________________________________

Todd:

Whether you agree or not is entirely incidental; I didn't say anything that isn't true. I certainly will state that I wasn't talking badly about these men and, quite frankly, I find it odd that, from the responses I've read so far, you're the only one who believes I was. I pointed out some of the things that these men did during their lives. I observed, as you did, that they did have their faults, but also that their shortcomings were entirely glossed over in all of our school textbooks, with the single purpose of presenting a favorable, almost magical image of who they were. I didn't force them to do those things, so how can you say I'm being critical of them? From what I gather from your scathing remarks, you were simply more comfortable not knowing the facts I brought forward, which only serves to prove my point; that's what you're supposed to do - Deny it, and it's not real.

Since you've taken it upon yourself to bring my income into this discussion, you should be happy to learn that I cleared $87,000.00 last year, and $81,000.00 in 2003. This is another fact. If you'd like copies of my tax returns, I'll be happy to mail them to you. Normally, I wouldn't publicize this, but since you brought it up, I felt compelled to point out to you that I am very satisfied with my station in life.

Concerning your comment about millionaires playing the lottery, I haven't a clue where you came up with the idea that I was criticizing Mr. Whittaker, but it wasn't from my post. I merely pointed out that we didn't read about his behavior before he won the PowerBall drawing because he wasn't famous back then; we have no way of knowing what his disposition was prior to winning his jackpot. 

To conclude, I'll point out that I am a disabled Gulf War veteran, having served my country honorably and faithfully for eighteen years. To this day, I carry almost eight ounces of shrapnel in my chest, neck and left hip because it was driven so far into the bone it couldn't be removed. I accepted a lateral promotion to a different rate in aviation electronics for my last three years in the Navy, rather than be discharged. I was forced into retirement when my headaches became so severe that I was deemed unfit for active duty. The fact remains that The United States Constitution, IN MY OPINION, favors the wealthy. When I left the service, my total income was $307.00 per month, and my house payment was $293.51. I couldn't hold a job for more than ninety days. I had to study ten hours a day, six days a week, to earn a college degree, because I couldn't remember things the way other students could. I've seen both sides of capitalism, my friend, so I believe I'm qualified to make the judgments I've made, and to share what I've learned from my experiences with those members who don't mind reading my wordy comments.

Like all members of this forum, I have a great deal of respect for you, Todd. You shoot from the hip, you never post unless you have something valuable to contribute to the topic at hand and you do your level best to make certain that every one of your members receives equal treatment. Your efforts in my quest to bring down the Hoosier Lottery have been invaluable, and I don't want to lose your support. But make no mistake -  if someone had said those things to my face, at least one of us would be making a trip to the hospital. I am now, and always have been fiercely loyal to my beloved country. My friends and family will tell you that I believe there is no more honorable way to die than on a battlefield in the service of our country. If I had a choice in the matter, that's how I'd prefer to go out, so when you question my patriotism and call me a socialist, I am made to feel that you don't appreciate my efforts. I understand that you had no way of knowing what I've been through, and there's a reason for that: I don't like to talk about it because it no longer matters; that's The Way Things Are. That's my reality. I can either accept it and move forward, or I can wallow in self-pity, dwelling on The Way Things Should Be until I die in my bed. I choose to move forward with my eyes open.

I realize it's lengthy, but if you read my entire post in this thread, I think you'll be able to glean its intended message.

Jim695:

I don't think it speaks well of you when you say that if I said my statement to your face I would be making a trip to the hospital.  I am honestly shocked and saddened to read that - saddened because it really changes that mental picture I had formed of you.

I have great respect for anyone that has served our country and put themselves in harm's way.  You are to be commended for your bravery and service.

Unfortunately, some people who have served our country do come down on the wrong side of some issues.  For example, for the life of me, I cannot understand why a single veteran would support John Kerry for president.  Maybe they were getting paid or something, but that's a real sell-out.  Note, for perfect clarity, I did not acuse YOU of supporting Kerry, I am using that as an example.

People who serve in the military, as well as the president as Commander-in-Chief, are doing so first and foremost to protect and serve the Constitution of the United States of America.  It is our country's most sacred document.  Again, I think you are way off-base in your criticism of it, and your military retirement pay does not further your argument about the Constitution being for the wealthy.  The constitution say anything about your retirement pay, or about income in general.

I think you need to focus your resentment on the government agency responsible for your military income, not our framing document.  I think you'll find that Democrats have largely been responsible for lack of military funding.  People like John Kerry.

There are so many other things that you have written which are just totally unfair and untrue, and totally not what I said.  Where did I question your patriotism?  Or label you a socialist?  If you can't separate a socialist position from socialism itself, that's not my fault.  Maybe you should try to see things from a different perspective and try to see the merit in what I'm saying.

Maybe we should just drop this before I keep going, because I just see it going back-and-forth with no end.  The bottom line is that I think you were wrong in your criticism of one of the greatest documents ever written by some of the greatest people who ever lived, and you believe those average people had ulterior motives when they wrote that not-so-great document which favors the rich.  We have an impassible divide.