UK Lottery operator plans $500 million global lottery game

Aug 9, 2007, 2:17 pm (27 comments)

International

'American states' are in talks to participate in the Christmastime mega-draw

Camelot, the operator of the UK National Lottery, is poised to launch a worldwide draw with a record jackpot of about £250m (US $500 million), now that it apparently won a new 10-year license this week.

The company was named on Tuesday as the "preferred bidder" for a license to run from 2009, after fending off a bid from Sugal & Damani, an Indian rival.

It is the third victory for Camelot, which has run the lottery since it started in 1994. Critics claim the company now has a virtual monopoly on the UK game.

Participants in the new annual "mega draw" will be vying for a jackpot twice the size of the £125m (US $250 million) top prize won so far in the multi-country Euro Millions game.

EuroMillions is played across nine countries, but Camelot says it has been discussing its worldwide game with a further 39 nations and American states.

The jackpot draw, which is likely to coincide with a big holiday such as Christmas, will run alongside monthly global draws that will each create up to 100 millionaires.

Individual lottery numbers are likely to be drawn separately from across the continents and broadcast live on television. Tickets purchased in Britain will generate income for lottery good causes at home.

The overall size of the annual jackpot will be dictated by the number of countries that decide to take part in the competition, although insiders are confident it will be in the "hundreds of millions".

Those hoping to scoop the top prize, however, ought to bear in mind that they will probably face odds well in excess of 100 million to one.

Plans for the global draw formed the centerpiece of Camelot's submission to the National Lottery Commission (NLC), the industry watchdog.

To date, the largest single lottery payout has been to Andrew Whittaker, a builder from West Virginia, who won £197m in the multi-state US Powerball game in 2002.

The NLC claims the battle for the third lottery license has been "highly competitive", but industry analysts believe it would have taken "a miracle" for Sugal & Damani to defeat Camelot.

Sir Richard Branson decided against bidding for the new license after claiming that the incumbent was a "shoo-in". His People's Lottery lost out to Camelot following an acrimonious legal dispute the last time the license came up for grabs.

The NLC will finalize contracts and officially award the new license to the winner by the end of the month. Camelot refused to comment.

Sunday Times

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RJOh's avatarRJOh

"Those hoping to scoop the top prize, however, ought to bear in mind that they will probably face odds well in excess of 100 million to one."

Would anyone seriously think any game that offered a top prize almost twice that ever offered by  America two biggest games could also have better odds?

tnlotto1's avatartnlotto1

i wonder which states are considering getting in that

LuckyLilly's avatarLuckyLilly

Dunno, but if one within a couple hours driving distance from me gets in, I'll get a ticket.  Prolly just one.

tnlotto1's avatartnlotto1

Quote: Originally posted by LuckyLilly on Aug 9, 2007

Dunno, but if one within a couple hours driving distance from me gets in, I'll get a ticket.  Prolly just one.

it depends on how much each ticket will cost as too how many ill get but ill definitely get involved if the state is mine or a border state.

RJOh's avatarRJOh

With MM and PB odds of 1:176M and 1:146M base on a $1 ticket, with similar odds based on $5-$15 ticket might make the game less appealing in the states. 

The exchange rates have alway made such a lottery almost impossible since even spending the equivalent of a dollar for a lottery ticket in some countries could cut deep into the average family budget.

Sounds like it won't a weekly game but a one shot deal at special times during the year which will make it more like a raffle than a regular lottery game.

pumpi76

I don´t understand can someone please tell me if this lottery is going to be played ONCE A WEEK, EVERY TWO WEEKS, OR ONCE A YEAR...I really couldn´t make it out of the news, i don´t know when is going to play...

i greatly appreciate it...

Stack47

Quote: Originally posted by pumpi76 on Aug 9, 2007

I don´t understand can someone please tell me if this lottery is going to be played ONCE A WEEK, EVERY TWO WEEKS, OR ONCE A YEAR...I really couldn´t make it out of the news, i don´t know when is going to play...

i greatly appreciate it...

"'American states' are in talks to participate in the Christmastime mega-draw"

Looks like one draw a few days before or after December 25.

spy153's avatarspy153

well there ya' go.... there's the 500 million dollar draw we have been anticipating !Hurray!
I hope it goes through and I can get in on it. Right at Christmastime, my favorite time of year too. Just imagine...Thinking of...

irondoor827

Quote: Originally posted by spy153 on Aug 9, 2007

well there ya' go.... there's the 500 million dollar draw we have been anticipating !Hurray!
I hope it goes through and I can get in on it. Right at Christmastime, my favorite time of year too. Just imagine...Thinking of...

a  half   Billion  dollars  ....what  do  you  think  the   ticket  price  will  be ? My  prediction  is   New  York  State  if  they  allowed  the   competition  is  $ 20.00  per   game  ???  Now   how  do  you  collect  the  cash  on  a   foriegn  lottery  game  ????

LOTTOMIKE's avatarLOTTOMIKE

if tickets are a dollar count me in.ten or twenty bucks? no thanks....

bobby623's avatarbobby623

This will never happen, IMHO.

I don't see how the US government can NOT block it, given the amount of time and money being spent to convince US citizens not to play foreign lotteries.

Drivedabizness

I don't think the US would tryo to block it...a number of US lotteries have already made preparations to participate in a "world lottery". CA's former Governor actually suggested a CA/Mexico joint game at one time and some of the preparations were actually made - nothing from the Feds on that one.

 

The part about numbers being drawn across the Continents is intriguing - what do you do??? - remove the balls thats have already been drawn from the successive hoppers as the draw moves around?  

 

A similar "Holiday Lotto" promotional game worked pretty well in New York - the payout ended up being fairly high but the top end sales were (if I recall correctly) very good.

 

This concept has a lot of "details" to work out. That's where we'll find any "devils" if there are any. 

justxploring's avatarjustxploring

I'd rather spend the money for a game with better odds.  After blowing $20 for one Florida Raffle ticket, I would never play another game with a $20 ticket price.  The odds for that game were only 125,000 to 1 and I still didn't win anything.  The only way I'll ever play another raffle game is if they add a few hundred $1,000 prizes and maybe some $500 or $100 prizes, or if they lower the ticket price.  At least with a lot of lower tier prizes, a player has a chance of getting his money back. 

"Those hoping to scoop the top prize, however, ought to bear in mind that they will probably face odds well in excess of 100 million to one."

This statement says it all.  Sure, the overall jackpot is always exciting like in PB and MM, but when the odds are this high, knowing there are many lower tier prizes makes it a little more appealing to me.  I'd love to win $500,000 but I'm realistic.   

"To date, the largest single lottery payout has been to Andrew Whittaker, a builder from West Virginia, who won £197m in the multi-state US Powerball game in 2002."

Good 'ol Jack again.  I bet his family can't wait until someone wins $500,000.  

tnlotto1's avatartnlotto1

Quote: Originally posted by justxploring on Aug 10, 2007

I'd rather spend the money for a game with better odds.  After blowing $20 for one Florida Raffle ticket, I would never play another game with a $20 ticket price.  The odds for that game were only 125,000 to 1 and I still didn't win anything.  The only way I'll ever play another raffle game is if they add a few hundred $1,000 prizes and maybe some $500 or $100 prizes, or if they lower the ticket price.  At least with a lot of lower tier prizes, a player has a chance of getting his money back. 

"Those hoping to scoop the top prize, however, ought to bear in mind that they will probably face odds well in excess of 100 million to one."

This statement says it all.  Sure, the overall jackpot is always exciting like in PB and MM, but when the odds are this high, knowing there are many lower tier prizes makes it a little more appealing to me.  I'd love to win $500,000 but I'm realistic.   

"To date, the largest single lottery payout has been to Andrew Whittaker, a builder from West Virginia, who won £197m in the multi-state US Powerball game in 2002."

Good 'ol Jack again.  I bet his family can't wait until someone wins $500,000.  

 "Good 'ol Jack again.  I bet his family can't wait until someone wins $500,000."

even if someone wins $500million jack might make the news again for  good or bad reason and his family will be back in the spotlight. no matter what the price is i will definitely get a ticket even if i have to get into a lottery pool

BobP's avatarBobP

Sounds like they are planning a regular draw with a super draw at the end of the year. 

One idea might be to make the wager and prize in local currency. For example, in the UK a ticket is a pound and the prize 500 million pounds. In the U.S. the ticket is a dollar and the prize 500 million dollars. In Mexico the ticket is a peso and the prize 500 million pesos.  Would be really cool if we could play online through any country for those of us who would prefer a low ticket cost for playing a big wheel even if the prize is smaller, it could still be equal or larger then a local game. 

I wouldn't mind a high odds Pick-6 or Pick-7 game with or without bonus balls and decent 3# and 4# prizes like the current UK game, but I'd ignore or just buy a quick pick if there is a power/mega ball and no 3# prize.

BobP

dvdiva's avatardvdiva

Jack won far less than 197 pounds at today's convertion rates. Doubt the game will go anywhere in the states. I hope Canada picks it up though.

LOTTOMIKE's avatarLOTTOMIKE

does anyone honestly think powerball or mega millions are going to let this happen?   heck no.thats taking money out of their pockets.

this will not pass although i like the idea.

i did a poll a while back wondering if we would ever see a 500 million pot.

bobby623's avatarbobby623

Quote: Originally posted by LOTTOMIKE on Aug 11, 2007

does anyone honestly think powerball or mega millions are going to let this happen?   heck no.thats taking money out of their pockets.

this will not pass although i like the idea.

i did a poll a while back wondering if we would ever see a 500 million pot.

I agree!

If my memory is good, I recall someone pushing to have a U.S. national lottery with profits going to reduce the national debt. This would be a better choice. We are already sending too many dollars out of the country to pay off assorted crooks in Iraq and other places.

KY Floyd's avatarKY Floyd

Quote: Originally posted by LOTTOMIKE on Aug 11, 2007

does anyone honestly think powerball or mega millions are going to let this happen?   heck no.thats taking money out of their pockets.

this will not pass although i like the idea.

i did a poll a while back wondering if we would ever see a 500 million pot.

As long as there's no federal prohibition against it the choice will be up to individual states, or the federal government could decide to offer it. The people who run PB and MM  would be free to lobby against it, but they don't get to make the decision.

Let's assume that for every dollar spent on the proposed lottery a dollar doesn't get spent on MM or PB. If the state sells that ticket, how does that reduce their income from ticket sales? If they keep 50 cents on the dollar, they'll  make 50 cents for each dollar spent on the new game instead of making it from a PB or MM ticket. If the advertised jackpot actually reached $500 million ticket sales would probably be huge, and they'd make a lot more than if they offered PB or MM with a smaller advertised jackpot.

The size of the jackpot may be related to how many countries participate, as it says in the article, but the likely payout will be a function of the odds and how much goes into the jackpot from each ticket. If the game has odds of 1 in 100 million then players should expect 1 winner for every 100 million tickets that are sold. Let's assume tickets are $2 (about what Euromillions costs), 30% goes to the jackpot, and they sell 800 million tickets. They'd collect $1.6 billion and the jackpot would be $480 million. With odds of 1 in 100 million we should expect about 8 winners.$480 million split 8 ways is $60 million. For their next drawings MM and PB are already offering more than that with better odds for a $2 wager.

shrapnel19

Would the winner get it all at once, or in an annuity?

Preppy's avatarPreppy

----“ The exchange rates have always made such a lottery almost impossible since even spending the equivalent of a dollar for a lottery ticket in some countries could cut deep into the average family budget.” ----

Valid point, however, a global lottery will most likely be a collection of 1st world countries with one or two developing countries on the fast track to first world status. Third world countries, poverty stricken countries, anti gambling countries, and countries with strong religious beliefs against gambling will not be represented.

 --- “Would the winner get it all at once, or in an annuity?”---

I believe the jackpot would be cash/lump sum and not an annuity prize. I believe the US is the only country that has annuity based lottery.

 

I don’t think the US will block an official global lottery. As qutgnt said, Higher Payouts= Higher Interest= Higher Jackpots= Higher Revenues for all parties involved. If the US considers the gain from taxing a one time payment/lump sum of ½ billion dollars or more, why would the US or any state pass up revenue?

 

I would say the price of the lottery ticket would range from $2.00 to $10.00 with $2.00 the most likely price for a lotto type game and $5.00 to $20.00 for a raffle type game.

 ---“Would anyone seriously think any game that offered a top prize almost twice that ever offered by  America two biggest games could also have better odds?”---

No, but when people see they can win one time payment/lump sum of ½ billion dollars or more, they won’t consider the odds. They will put logic aside and just buy a lottery ticket.

 

However, if Camelot puts a cap on the top prize, I think sales will be disappointing. Does anyone think Camelot would put a cap on the top prize?

 ---- “Now  how  do  you  collect  the  cash  on  a  foreign  lottery  game?” ----

I would assume a US winner would collect the winnings in the same manner as a Powerball or Mega-millions lottery winner would. All the countries convert the money into $US and forward the money to the winning state. The winner goes to the lottery commission office and claims the money. The lottery commission of the winning state withholds the federal tax and state tax (if any). If a US state does not place a tax on an international lottery the state in question is really missing a golden opportunity.

 ---- “The new game would span the globe with some 50 countries already voicing interest in taking part…Camelot says it has been discussing its worldwide game with a further 39 nations and American states.”---

So is Camelot discussing a global lottery with 39, 50, 89, or 90 countries? Did the number of interested parties drop from 50 down to 39?

 

I would say the following states have been in discussion with Camelot: California, Nevada, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Iowa, Virginia, and Illinois.

tnlotto1's avatartnlotto1

Quote: Originally posted by Preppy on Aug 12, 2007

----“ The exchange rates have always made such a lottery almost impossible since even spending the equivalent of a dollar for a lottery ticket in some countries could cut deep into the average family budget.” ----

Valid point, however, a global lottery will most likely be a collection of 1st world countries with one or two developing countries on the fast track to first world status. Third world countries, poverty stricken countries, anti gambling countries, and countries with strong religious beliefs against gambling will not be represented.

 --- “Would the winner get it all at once, or in an annuity?”---

I believe the jackpot would be cash/lump sum and not an annuity prize. I believe the US is the only country that has annuity based lottery.

 

I don’t think the US will block an official global lottery. As qutgnt said, Higher Payouts= Higher Interest= Higher Jackpots= Higher Revenues for all parties involved. If the US considers the gain from taxing a one time payment/lump sum of ½ billion dollars or more, why would the US or any state pass up revenue?

 

I would say the price of the lottery ticket would range from $2.00 to $10.00 with $2.00 the most likely price for a lotto type game and $5.00 to $20.00 for a raffle type game.

 ---“Would anyone seriously think any game that offered a top prize almost twice that ever offered by  America two biggest games could also have better odds?”---

No, but when people see they can win one time payment/lump sum of ½ billion dollars or more, they won’t consider the odds. They will put logic aside and just buy a lottery ticket.

 

However, if Camelot puts a cap on the top prize, I think sales will be disappointing. Does anyone think Camelot would put a cap on the top prize?

 ---- “Now  how  do  you  collect  the  cash  on  a  foreign  lottery  game?” ----

I would assume a US winner would collect the winnings in the same manner as a Powerball or Mega-millions lottery winner would. All the countries convert the money into $US and forward the money to the winning state. The winner goes to the lottery commission office and claims the money. The lottery commission of the winning state withholds the federal tax and state tax (if any). If a US state does not place a tax on an international lottery the state in question is really missing a golden opportunity.

 ---- “The new game would span the globe with some 50 countries already voicing interest in taking part…Camelot says it has been discussing its worldwide game with a further 39 nations and American states.”---

So is Camelot discussing a global lottery with 39, 50, 89, or 90 countries? Did the number of interested parties drop from 50 down to 39?

 

I would say the following states have been in discussion with Camelot: California, Nevada, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Iowa, Virginia, and Illinois.

out of those states illinois is the one closest to me so i hope they get involved so i can drive up and get a few tickets

LuckyLilly's avatarLuckyLilly

Quote: Originally posted by tnlotto1 on Aug 12, 2007

out of those states illinois is the one closest to me so i hope they get involved so i can drive up and get a few tickets

I thought Nevada was dead-set against lottery.  But if Idaho doesn't participate, I hope Nevada does cuz it's the next state closest to me.  I'd definitely make the 4 hour round trip drive to get a ticket as long as they're not over $20.

Preppy's avatarPreppy

Quote: Originally posted by LuckyLilly on Aug 12, 2007

I thought Nevada was dead-set against lottery.  But if Idaho doesn't participate, I hope Nevada does cuz it's the next state closest to me.  I'd definitely make the 4 hour round trip drive to get a ticket as long as they're not over $20.

I will agree with you that Nevada is dead-set against state lotteries. If the global lottery is annuity based Nevada will most likely pass. However, I see a global lottery with a billion dollar one time payout (give or take a few 100 million) as unique and as a possible exception to the rule. There are so many ways the Las Vegas tourism board can use the world lottery to promote tourism. As you said, you would drive to Nevada to buy a ticket. People already drive and fly for hours to gamble and hope to win a few thousand dollars. There must be a lot of other people who would drive or fly to win close to a billion and simultaneously take a long weekend.

mylollipop's avatarmylollipop

Quote: Originally posted by pumpi76 on Aug 9, 2007

I don´t understand can someone please tell me if this lottery is going to be played ONCE A WEEK, EVERY TWO WEEKS, OR ONCE A YEAR...I really couldn´t make it out of the news, i don´t know when is going to play...

i greatly appreciate it...

Sounds like it is an annual game like the El GOrdo.  It was not clear, help us out.

mylollipop's avatarmylollipop

Quote: Originally posted by Preppy on Aug 12, 2007

----“ The exchange rates have always made such a lottery almost impossible since even spending the equivalent of a dollar for a lottery ticket in some countries could cut deep into the average family budget.” ----

Valid point, however, a global lottery will most likely be a collection of 1st world countries with one or two developing countries on the fast track to first world status. Third world countries, poverty stricken countries, anti gambling countries, and countries with strong religious beliefs against gambling will not be represented.

 --- “Would the winner get it all at once, or in an annuity?”---

I believe the jackpot would be cash/lump sum and not an annuity prize. I believe the US is the only country that has annuity based lottery.

 

I don’t think the US will block an official global lottery. As qutgnt said, Higher Payouts= Higher Interest= Higher Jackpots= Higher Revenues for all parties involved. If the US considers the gain from taxing a one time payment/lump sum of ½ billion dollars or more, why would the US or any state pass up revenue?

 

I would say the price of the lottery ticket would range from $2.00 to $10.00 with $2.00 the most likely price for a lotto type game and $5.00 to $20.00 for a raffle type game.

 ---“Would anyone seriously think any game that offered a top prize almost twice that ever offered by  America two biggest games could also have better odds?”---

No, but when people see they can win one time payment/lump sum of ½ billion dollars or more, they won’t consider the odds. They will put logic aside and just buy a lottery ticket.

 

However, if Camelot puts a cap on the top prize, I think sales will be disappointing. Does anyone think Camelot would put a cap on the top prize?

 ---- “Now  how  do  you  collect  the  cash  on  a  foreign  lottery  game?” ----

I would assume a US winner would collect the winnings in the same manner as a Powerball or Mega-millions lottery winner would. All the countries convert the money into $US and forward the money to the winning state. The winner goes to the lottery commission office and claims the money. The lottery commission of the winning state withholds the federal tax and state tax (if any). If a US state does not place a tax on an international lottery the state in question is really missing a golden opportunity.

 ---- “The new game would span the globe with some 50 countries already voicing interest in taking part…Camelot says it has been discussing its worldwide game with a further 39 nations and American states.”---

So is Camelot discussing a global lottery with 39, 50, 89, or 90 countries? Did the number of interested parties drop from 50 down to 39?

 

I would say the following states have been in discussion with Camelot: California, Nevada, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Iowa, Virginia, and Illinois.

So Preppy, how do you Know which states have been considering it.  Not a single Southern state I see.

Preppy's avatarPreppy

Quote: Originally posted by mylollipop on Aug 13, 2007

So Preppy, how do you Know which states have been considering it.  Not a single Southern state I see.

Logic

 

 

The article stated that “The overall size of the annual jackpot will be dictated by the number of countries that decide to take part in the competition.”

Camelot will most likely go after states and countries with large populations and/or high lottery sales. In my opinion most southern states with a lottery will not make the cut and some Powerball states will not make the cut. Some Mega millions states will not make the cut. So you are left with states in the Northeast, some in the Midwest, and some west coast states.

 

 

How would you classify Virginia? How do you define southern?

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