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Mathematics and the Lottery

543 replies. Last post 5 days ago by veronicajeffers.

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Can a winning lottery system be created with existing math formulas?

Yes-It's all in the math books. [ 170 ]  [41.77%]
No-Anew math for will have to be created. [ 60 ]  [14.74%]
Math won't beat the lottery regularly. [ 177 ]  [43.49%]
Total Valid Votes [ 407 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 45 ]  

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JKING's avatar - Kaleidoscope 3.gif

United States
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July 13, 2004
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Posted: July 22, 2011, 2:37 am - IP Logged

My vote is for #2 - prove me wrong. *S*

You are a slave to the choices you have made.  jk

Even a blind squirrel will occasioanlly find an acorn.

    L J1's avatar - chi jpeg.jpg
    Michigan
    United States
    Member #54181
    August 8, 2007
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    Posted: July 22, 2011, 11:32 am - IP Logged

    I would like to believe math has a lot to capturing wins at all levels. However, since many of the states converted their drawings from mechanical to RNG ( random number generator) computer, I want to say that unless you are in that very small circle of people who conduct the drawings much of the math is similar to luck. Extremely high odds against the player in lotto games.

    Balance is Key

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      FL
      United States
      Member #93843
      July 8, 2010
      576 Posts
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      Posted: July 22, 2011, 12:22 pm - IP Logged

      I voted for #2 also....

      I believe you can use math but you need use a different type of math, not anything we learned in school.

      Something more dynamic

      "It's evolve or die, really, you have to evolve, you have to move on otherwise it just becomes stagnant."

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        bgonçalves
        Brasil
        Member #92566
        June 9, 2010
        1502 Posts
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        Posted: July 22, 2011, 12:44 pm - IP Logged

        Hello, the basis of lottery games is that you can use mathematics to predict to some extent after is random example, a game of 49 / 6, how many times players
          With 50 or 100 bets often hit 3 to 4 of 6 possible arrangements of the lottery 49 / 6 so we can only predict with confidence until 3:04 random numbers is then
          Up to two numbers because they can repeat the previous result, understand! In pick3 are the pairs
        Mathematically easier to predict the random factor will always exist, look at the example
          Lottery 49 / 6 are 13 million of bets, but if you get a wheel 49x4x4 =?
        That is a wheel that always guarantees the court in any lottery, only missing two numbers
          To close the 6 numbers to bet, I think the study of Boolean analysis, nonlinear
          To mount wheels at the lowest possible reduction of 49x4x4 =? I also think that you can use the addition and reduction of the numbers, ok

          RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
          mid-Ohio
          United States
          Member #9
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          17931 Posts
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          Posted: July 22, 2011, 1:14 pm - IP Logged

          My vote is for #2 - prove me wrong. *S*

          Proving you're wrong won't necessarily produce a winner so I challenge you to prove you are correct.

          * you don't need more tickets, just the right ticket * 
          * your best chance at winning a lottery jackpot is to buy a ticket * 
               Wink 

            JKING's avatar - Kaleidoscope 3.gif

            United States
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            July 13, 2004
            1163 Posts
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            Posted: July 22, 2011, 7:18 pm - IP Logged

            Proving you're wrong won't necessarily produce a winner so I challenge you to prove you are correct.

            Hi,

              You gotta love a devil's advocate.*S*

              Do I have mathematical proof...no. However, after years of observation at the LP, #2 should be the correct answer. I've seen members come and go who are much more adept at advanced matmematics than I am. But it doesn't seem to matter, the result is the same repetitively, no winning system has been generated by people who know mathematics inside out. So, my proof whould be...that given the amount manpower, manhours, and talent that has been applied over an extended time, a new approach should be taken. Please note that I am not discounting current mathematics a necessary element to developing a winning system. I would say that current models are inadequate to the task. That would infer that newer models should be generated from mathematics as we know it. Perhaps multi-dimensional distribution analysis and the rules around law of uncertainty might be a good place to start as a new foundation. Even if you don't agree, try a new (really new) path, the old ones aren't working.

            You are a slave to the choices you have made.  jk

            Even a blind squirrel will occasioanlly find an acorn.

              JKING's avatar - Kaleidoscope 3.gif

              United States
              Member #5599
              July 13, 2004
              1163 Posts
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              Posted: July 22, 2011, 9:56 pm - IP Logged

              Hi,

                You gotta love a devil's advocate.*S*

                Do I have mathematical proof...no. However, after years of observation at the LP, #2 should be the correct answer. I've seen members come and go who are much more adept at advanced matmematics than I am. But it doesn't seem to matter, the result is the same repetitively, no winning system has been generated by people who know mathematics inside out. So, my proof whould be...that given the amount manpower, manhours, and talent that has been applied over an extended time, a new approach should be taken. Please note that I am not discounting current mathematics a necessary element to developing a winning system. I would say that current models are inadequate to the task. That would infer that newer models should be generated from mathematics as we know it. Perhaps multi-dimensional distribution analysis and the rules around law of uncertainty might be a good place to start as a new foundation. Even if you don't agree, try a new (really new) path, the old ones aren't working.

              Uncertainty principle of game theory

              The uncertainty principle of game theory was formulated by Szekely and Rizzo in 2007.[28] This principle is a lower bound for the entropy of optimal strategies of players in terms of the commutator of two nonlinear operators: minimum and maximum. If the payoff matrix (aij) of an arbitrary zero-sum game is normalized (i.e. the smallest number in this matrix is 0, the biggest number is 1) and the commutator

              minj maxi (aij) − maxi minj (aij) = h

              then the entropy of the optimal strategy of any of the players cannot be smaller than the entropy of the two-point distribution [1/(1+h), h/(1+h)] and this is the best lower bound. (This is zero if and only if h = 0 i.e. if min and max are commutable in which case the game has pure nonrandom optimal strategies). As an application, one could optimize between these two-point strategies via considering the distribution [1/(1+h), h/(1+h)] on all pairs of pure strategies. In many practical cases we do not lose much by neglecting more complex strategies.

              You are a slave to the choices you have made.  jk

              Even a blind squirrel will occasioanlly find an acorn.

                RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                mid-Ohio
                United States
                Member #9
                March 24, 2001
                17931 Posts
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                Posted: July 23, 2011, 4:38 pm - IP Logged

                Hi,

                  You gotta love a devil's advocate.*S*

                  Do I have mathematical proof...no. However, after years of observation at the LP, #2 should be the correct answer. I've seen members come and go who are much more adept at advanced matmematics than I am. But it doesn't seem to matter, the result is the same repetitively, no winning system has been generated by people who know mathematics inside out. So, my proof whould be...that given the amount manpower, manhours, and talent that has been applied over an extended time, a new approach should be taken. Please note that I am not discounting current mathematics a necessary element to developing a winning system. I would say that current models are inadequate to the task. That would infer that newer models should be generated from mathematics as we know it. Perhaps multi-dimensional distribution analysis and the rules around law of uncertainty might be a good place to start as a new foundation. Even if you don't agree, try a new (really new) path, the old ones aren't working.

                I'm not so sure someone hasn't come with a winning lottery system, but not one so spectacular that it would be noticed if they didn't brag about it.   I can't think of any reason one would bring attention to themselves if they had developed such a system other than they could generate money talking about it rather than using it and in that case it would just be another one of those winning lottery systems you can already buy off the Internet.

                * you don't need more tickets, just the right ticket * 
                * your best chance at winning a lottery jackpot is to buy a ticket * 
                     Wink 

                  sully16's avatar - sharan
                  Listens to the wind
                  Michigan
                  United States
                  Member #81740
                  October 28, 2009
                  19898 Posts
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                  Posted: July 23, 2011, 4:49 pm - IP Logged

                  Maybe a math wizard could write a formula.

                  There's only one US Flag

                    eddessaknight's avatar - nw paladin.jpg
                    LAS VEGAS
                    United States
                    Member #47729
                    November 22, 2006
                    2984 Posts
                    Online
                    Posted: July 23, 2011, 4:58 pm - IP Logged

                    Hey Sully,

                    Agreed, it wil take a wizard of sorts because it hasn't knowingly been done via conventional math or means!!!

                     

                    EddessaKnight Patriot

                      jimmy4164's avatar - andy warhol.jpg
                      State of Mind
                      United States
                      Member #93949
                      July 10, 2010
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                      Posted: July 24, 2011, 12:31 am - IP Logged

                      If you click here you will be able to surmise how I voted...

                      http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/bettingsystems.html

                      (Be sure to click on "Who is the Wizard of Odds."

                        rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                        -Ridge Runner- Oracle of the Appalachians
                        Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
                        United States
                        Member #73904
                        April 28, 2009
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                        Posted: July 24, 2011, 4:06 pm - IP Logged

                        I'm not too proficient at math so I try to use geography instead.

                        (To the tune of "I Was In The Right Place But It Musta Been The Wrong Time" by Dr Hook and the Medicine Show)

                         

                        By being in the right place

                        And hoping it's the right time.

                        Buyin' me some Quick Picks

                        And standin in the right line

                        Smilin' at the cashier

                        Tellin' her she looks fine

                        Gettin' me some cold beer

                        Over by the beer sign

                        Askin' if she'd like one

                        Let 'er know that I'm buyin'

                        Meet 'er later out back

                        Let 'er know she's my kind

                        Get 'er in the pickup

                        Let 'er know that I'm tryin'

                        To win a big ol' jackpot

                        Bigger than a gold mine

                        Sittin' in the backwoods

                        Sippin' on some moonshine

                        Thinkin bout the powerball

                        Thinkin' that we'll do fine

                        She pulls out some Midol...

                        The End


                                                                     
                                             
                                                                 

                         

                         

                         

                         

                                                                                                                           

                        "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                    --Edmund Burke

                         

                         

                          haymaker's avatar - Lottery-012.jpg
                          egg harbor twp.south jersey shore
                          United States
                          Member #112972
                          June 29, 2011
                          3159 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: July 24, 2011, 9:20 pm - IP Logged

                          I'm not too proficient at math so I try to use geography instead.

                          (To the tune of "I Was In The Right Place But It Musta Been The Wrong Time" by Dr Hook and the Medicine Show)

                           

                          By being in the right place

                          And hoping it's the right time.

                          Buyin' me some Quick Picks

                          And standin in the right line

                          Smilin' at the cashier

                          Tellin' her she looks fine

                          Gettin' me some cold beer

                          Over by the beer sign

                          Askin' if she'd like one

                          Let 'er know that I'm buyin'

                          Meet 'er later out back

                          Let 'er know she's my kind

                          Get 'er in the pickup

                          Let 'er know that I'm tryin'

                          To win a big ol' jackpot

                          Bigger than a gold mine

                          Sittin' in the backwoods

                          Sippin' on some moonshine

                          Thinkin bout the powerball

                          Thinkin' that we'll do fine

                          She pulls out some Midol...

                          The End

                          spent a lot of time w/ this kind of stuff as a kid, now wish some one had it all written downway too funny,love that tune so i just did it,out loud air guiter style,could't finish, lmao.Guitar thanks

                          Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds    -- Charles Mackay  LL.D.

                            RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                            mid-Ohio
                            United States
                            Member #9
                            March 24, 2001
                            17931 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: July 25, 2011, 1:03 pm - IP Logged

                            If you click here you will be able to surmise how I voted...

                            http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/bettingsystems.html

                            (Be sure to click on "Who is the Wizard of Odds."

                            Although you have continued to link articles written by professional mathematician who are consultants in the gambling industry that assure us that casino and lottery games are designed such that the house always have the advantage and there's no way to change that using mathematics, we continue to read stories about groups that had some short term success taking advantage of something over looked like a RNG used improperly as in Tennessee a few years ago or under estimating the ways and amount of data players could accumulate in card counting schemes and etc.  Granted, it has been a waste of time so far, there still those who continue to look for such flaws and lotteries investigates when anything unusual happens such a when over 200 PB players matched 5+0 a few years ago.

                            * you don't need more tickets, just the right ticket * 
                            * your best chance at winning a lottery jackpot is to buy a ticket * 
                                 Wink 

                              Avatar
                              NY
                              United States
                              Member #23835
                              October 16, 2005
                              2838 Posts
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                              Posted: July 25, 2011, 3:48 pm - IP Logged

                              Apples and oranges. Card counting simply shifts the advantage of a game that's not random from the house to the player by changing the rules of the game. Recognzing flaws, such as an improper RNG, are also based on a change in the rules of the game

                              The question of whether or not a winning system for beating the lottery is possible is an entirely different matter. Occasional flaws aside, lottery games are random; you place your bet without knowing anything about your hand or the dealers. Until somebody develops a math that can predict the future there's no chance of developing a winning system, because random results are unpredictable. Thinking you can somehow beat random is even sillier than thinking you can consistently beat  the house advantage in a casino game.

                              Even the vast majority of people who are hunting for that mythical system should be able to recognize the truth. How many of them have claimed their "system" worked for a while and then went cold? If the rules of the game didn't change a system that works now would continue to work.

                                 
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