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Lost scratch off ticket did they know whether it is a winner or not

Topic closed. 13 replies. Last post 3 years ago by TheOtherOne.

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ozone park
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Posted: August 5, 2011, 7:33 pm - IP Logged

Well i have heard everything. Last week I purchased a NYS scratch off ticket. I lost it. So i went back to purchase the next 2 tickets so I can know what number was on the ticket I lost so i can ask if it was cashed in or not. Well I really did not expect the answer I got. Not only did they inform me that no one claimed the ticket but they were able to tell me that in fact it was a winning ticket for a smaller prize and they told me how  much the ticket would have won.

 

So I guess they know exactly where all the winning tickets are located AND they know whether a winning ticket was destroyed as they continually destroy tickets from establishments that go out of business or are transfered to another person. and they also know whether it was part of a group of stolen tickets or not.

    Jon D's avatar - calotterylogo
    Los Angeles, California
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    Posted: August 5, 2011, 8:02 pm - IP Logged

    Yep, that's the rub isn't it.

    Scratch-offs are much more complicated and rife with fraud possibilities compared to regular draw lottery games. Yes, *someone* knows A: where the winners are in the books of tickets, and *someone* knows B: where the books of tickets went. But who and how many knows both A and B? Maybe just one person or none?

    You figure that someone at the ticket manufacturer Scientific Games corp knows A. And also gives that master list of scratch ticket serial numbers (visible) to scratch ticket lottery numbers (hidden) to someone at the State Lotto Commission. And someone at the Lotto Commission knows which stores the books of tickets were distributed to.

    So ... if someone can put A and B together, you have potential for fraud. All they gotta say is, "hey, a top $1,000,000 prize is in ticket book 127650 at Tommy's Liquor in Jersey Shore!" and find a way to get a partner in crime to buy it and claim it.

    There is supposed to be a method to hide A from B in the manufacturing and distribution process, or limit that knowledge to only key people. But we have no way of knowing for sure. So trust and play, but verify and be on the lookout for fraud as a watchful consumer.

      James1's avatar - 5599078405 12a562a9e7_t.jpg
      Florida
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      Posted: August 5, 2011, 11:14 pm - IP Logged

      Of course they know, but they deny it. 

      A few years ago info was leaked and a friend of a lottery employee bought a million dollar winning ticket with insider info. they got busted but the lotto took a huge hit publicly from this case. I think it was in Illionois .....

      Another thing, when I won $1,000 i never said where i bought it 1 week later i see a sign in the store they sold a $1,000 winner on so and so ticket. so obviously the lotto knows everything where all the winners are etc.

      How do you explain the people who win 1 Mil several times ? Lucky ? I dont think so. i would not be surprised if they splitting the money with the lotto employees who informed them where the tickets would be ...... I wonder why no one looks into this further ?

      2014 Highest Winner: $500

        Jon D's avatar - calotterylogo
        Los Angeles, California
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        Posted: August 6, 2011, 12:06 am - IP Logged

        Of course they know, but they deny it. 

        A few years ago info was leaked and a friend of a lottery employee bought a million dollar winning ticket with insider info. they got busted but the lotto took a huge hit publicly from this case. I think it was in Illionois .....

        Another thing, when I won $1,000 i never said where i bought it 1 week later i see a sign in the store they sold a $1,000 winner on so and so ticket. so obviously the lotto knows everything where all the winners are etc.

        How do you explain the people who win 1 Mil several times ? Lucky ? I dont think so. i would not be surprised if they splitting the money with the lotto employees who informed them where the tickets would be ...... I wonder why no one looks into this further ?

        Yeah, they definitely know after it is redeemed, the ticket number and what store it came from.

        But I always wonder how many people have access to the "master list" of ticket numbers and winners. Obviously, the lottery terminals and ticket scanners have access to a portion of that database in a limited fashion. But as far as who knows beforehand, without any action being taken, where the big winners are? Probably only a handful of the lottery directors, and a few guys in IT department. But the temptation is hard to ignore.

        I'd sure like it if Dateline NBC or Inside Edition took another deeper look at the Scratch Lottery "behind the scenes."

          redhot7's avatar - SetforLifeLogo
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          Posted: August 6, 2011, 1:25 am - IP Logged

          Of course they know, but they deny it. 

          A few years ago info was leaked and a friend of a lottery employee bought a million dollar winning ticket with insider info. they got busted but the lotto took a huge hit publicly from this case. I think it was in Illionois .....

          Another thing, when I won $1,000 i never said where i bought it 1 week later i see a sign in the store they sold a $1,000 winner on so and so ticket. so obviously the lotto knows everything where all the winners are etc.

          How do you explain the people who win 1 Mil several times ? Lucky ? I dont think so. i would not be surprised if they splitting the money with the lotto employees who informed them where the tickets would be ...... I wonder why no one looks into this further ?

          when I won $1,000 i never said where i bought it 1 week later i see a sign in the store they sold a $1,000 winner on so and so ticket. so obviously the lotto knows everything where all the winners are etc.

          Did they put the sign after or before you redeemed the ticket at the ticket office? How did they know that the ticket was sold? From the scanner?

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            ozone park
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            Posted: August 6, 2011, 12:18 pm - IP Logged

            When they scan the book to open it records the book number which in itself knows all the scratch off's in that book. When you buy a scartch off and you go and cash it in the store is notified it sold a winning ticket. What I do not like is the fact that the NYS lottery destroys good unsold scratch off's when a business goes under or a business is transfered. This is really what should be burning everyone up and no one seems to care. NYS Lottery has admitted that when a business is sold or transfered ALL opened books that are unsold aRE DESTROYED and they say that it is standard practice throughout the USA Lotto world and it is another way for Lotto to keep selling scratch off's. wHEN THEY DESTROY THESE TICKETS THEY KNOW when they destroyed a winning ticket or not and if the winning ticket is destroyed no one is going to know and they can keep selling the scratch off game because as far as we know there are still winning tickets available but in reality they destroyed the winning tickets when they destroyed the unsold scratch off's. This is fraud at every level but they say it is covered under the law/.

              redhot7's avatar - SetforLifeLogo
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              Posted: August 6, 2011, 12:51 pm - IP Logged

              Why don't the owners of the business scratch off all the remaining unsold tickets? I mean, they already bought the rolls in advance, right?

                Jon D's avatar - calotterylogo
                Los Angeles, California
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                Posted: August 6, 2011, 12:59 pm - IP Logged

                When they scan the book to open it records the book number which in itself knows all the scratch off's in that book. When you buy a scartch off and you go and cash it in the store is notified it sold a winning ticket. What I do not like is the fact that the NYS lottery destroys good unsold scratch off's when a business goes under or a business is transfered. This is really what should be burning everyone up and no one seems to care. NYS Lottery has admitted that when a business is sold or transfered ALL opened books that are unsold aRE DESTROYED and they say that it is standard practice throughout the USA Lotto world and it is another way for Lotto to keep selling scratch off's. wHEN THEY DESTROY THESE TICKETS THEY KNOW when they destroyed a winning ticket or not and if the winning ticket is destroyed no one is going to know and they can keep selling the scratch off game because as far as we know there are still winning tickets available but in reality they destroyed the winning tickets when they destroyed the unsold scratch off's. This is fraud at every level but they say it is covered under the law/.

                When they scan a book, they just know it is active and the tickets authorized to redeem. I don't think it provides anyone at the lottery anything more than they already know, probably more for just for theft and accounting purposes. They know where the books went.

                What you could claim as fraud is if they're aware of some top and 2nd prizes being destroyed, but then advertise in the top prizes report that they are still available. That might be an angle you could try.

                You would have to prove or get them to disclose that they are aware of exactly which books contain the top prizes. And then show that they know those books were destroyed, but advertise that those top prizes are still available.

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                  ozone park
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                  Posted: August 6, 2011, 1:18 pm - IP Logged

                  Well they have already admitted that they destroy tickets when a business goes out of business or is transferred to another owner all unsold open books of scratch off's are destroyed. and they admitted that they know just by a ticket number whether the ticket is a winner or not even if it is not claimed they know whether it is a winner and how much it is a winner for. so when you put the 2 together they know if they destroy tickets there is a way for someone at lotto to know if any of those tickets destroyed is a winner and yes that does mean that they are advertising 1st and 2nd top prize winners still available and yes they do know that there is no more left if they all get destroyed at some point. This does allow a major loop hole in the system because technically if all the 1st and 2nd top prize tickets are claimed they have to pull the game off the shelves but there is nothing in the law that says that includes tickets that are destroyed and so even if the top prizes are destroyed they are allowed to keep selling the game under the law this is exactly what i was told by the law department at the NYS lotto division.

                    redhot7's avatar - SetforLifeLogo
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                    Posted: August 6, 2011, 2:37 pm - IP Logged

                    When they scan a book, they just know it is active and the tickets authorized to redeem. I don't think it provides anyone at the lottery anything more than they already know, probably more for just for theft and accounting purposes. They know where the books went.

                    What you could claim as fraud is if they're aware of some top and 2nd prizes being destroyed, but then advertise in the top prizes report that they are still available. That might be an angle you could try.

                    You would have to prove or get them to disclose that they are aware of exactly which books contain the top prizes. And then show that they know those books were destroyed, but advertise that those top prizes are still available.

                    What you could claim as fraud is if they're aware of some top and 2nd prizes being destroyed, but then advertise in the top prizes report that they are still available.

                    As a side note, the CA Lottery advertised that 100,000 Riches still has 26 top prizes available. But the game ends on middle October 2011. I doubt that they are going to print all those 26 top prizes before the game expired. But by not doing so, by not printing the remaining tickets with 26 top prizes, they are committing a fraud.

                      Jon D's avatar - calotterylogo
                      Los Angeles, California
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                      Posted: August 6, 2011, 5:07 pm - IP Logged

                      What you could claim as fraud is if they're aware of some top and 2nd prizes being destroyed, but then advertise in the top prizes report that they are still available.

                      As a side note, the CA Lottery advertised that 100,000 Riches still has 26 top prizes available. But the game ends on middle October 2011. I doubt that they are going to print all those 26 top prizes before the game expired. But by not doing so, by not printing the remaining tickets with 26 top prizes, they are committing a fraud.

                      I would assume the remaining bulk of the millions of tickets for $100,000 Riches game are actually sitting in a warehouse somewhere. They probably printed out the game in bulk at the manufacturer and delivered it to the lotto commission long ago. Sometimes on good selling games they re-order batches of millions of tickets, like Red Hot 7's.

                      This $100,000 Riches game didn't seem to sell very well. I didn't care for it too much, something about it. They begin pulling it from shelves a few months before end of game date. Not many top prizes would be left out there, and maybe only 1 top prize if at all might available to buy. The rest of the top prizes are probably in the millions of tickets in the lotto warehouse or on shelves and stockrooms in various retailers, and will soon be returned to lotto for disposal.

                      They can still say the overall game odds are ths same, but don't make the mistake of playing an ending game, the odds are not in your favor.

                        redhot7's avatar - SetforLifeLogo
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                        Posted: August 6, 2011, 6:00 pm - IP Logged

                        I would assume the remaining bulk of the millions of tickets for $100,000 Riches game are actually sitting in a warehouse somewhere. They probably printed out the game in bulk at the manufacturer and delivered it to the lotto commission long ago. Sometimes on good selling games they re-order batches of millions of tickets, like Red Hot 7's.

                        This $100,000 Riches game didn't seem to sell very well. I didn't care for it too much, something about it. They begin pulling it from shelves a few months before end of game date. Not many top prizes would be left out there, and maybe only 1 top prize if at all might available to buy. The rest of the top prizes are probably in the millions of tickets in the lotto warehouse or on shelves and stockrooms in various retailers, and will soon be returned to lotto for disposal.

                        They can still say the overall game odds are ths same, but don't make the mistake of playing an ending game, the odds are not in your favor.

                        If they deliberately holding the rolls of tickets with grand prizes sitting in their warehouses and never making the tickets  available for purchase, they are essentially committing a fraud. If there are still X number of tickets with grand prizes, then X number of tickets must be available for purchase by the end of the game expiration.

                          Jon D's avatar - calotterylogo
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                          Posted: August 6, 2011, 6:58 pm - IP Logged

                          If they deliberately holding the rolls of tickets with grand prizes sitting in their warehouses and never making the tickets  available for purchase, they are essentially committing a fraud. If there are still X number of tickets with grand prizes, then X number of tickets must be available for purchase by the end of the game expiration.

                          I wouldn't say they are deliberately holding top prizes, from the looks of things, they are only about halfway through the 30,000,000 tickets. So naturally, only about half of the 50 top prizes would have been claimed by this time. The game just didn't sell well.

                          They wouldn't push the entire stock of tickets out to stores all at once. And they need a way to space out out winners at pseudo-random intervals.

                          Sure, I wish they had more disclosure on the Scratch winners, but I can't push the fraud button just yet.

                            TheOtherOne's avatar - Lottery-027.jpg
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                            Posted: August 17, 2011, 11:31 pm - IP Logged

                            Of course they know, but they deny it. 

                            A few years ago info was leaked and a friend of a lottery employee bought a million dollar winning ticket with insider info. they got busted but the lotto took a huge hit publicly from this case. I think it was in Illionois .....

                            Another thing, when I won $1,000 i never said where i bought it 1 week later i see a sign in the store they sold a $1,000 winner on so and so ticket. so obviously the lotto knows everything where all the winners are etc.

                            How do you explain the people who win 1 Mil several times ? Lucky ? I dont think so. i would not be surprised if they splitting the money with the lotto employees who informed them where the tickets would be ...... I wonder why no one looks into this further ?

                            In TN the lottery terminals sometimes printout slips showing a breakdown of how many prizes that store has sold. i dont know if this is automatically printed every so often or if a clerk has to manualy do it, but one store owner showed me this slip of paper before.

                            So I dont know if anyone in the store knows beforehand it has a 'hot roll', or if they find out afterwards.

                            It sure would be nice to have the capability to figure out who delivers these rolls in and follow them to see if they act suspicious lol.