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Online Lottery Pool

Topic closed. 19 replies. Last post 10 years ago by RJOh.

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Would you join

Yep [ 10 ]  [45.45%]
Nah [ 12 ]  [54.55%]
Total Valid Votes [ 22 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 2 ]  
waynr's avatar - moon2

United States
Member #3813
February 23, 2004
52 Posts
Offline
Posted: March 2, 2004, 10:33 pm - IP Logged

Recently there was a post by Cyrus wanting to join an online lottery pool. Why not form one here on Lottery Post if enough members were interested? RJOh made some good points in replying to Cyrus' request. Butt if you've ever tried to get family, friends and coworkers to go in with you, you have probably found that it is hard to keep it together with everyone playing consistently enough for it to be a true pool. So many excuses. They have to have more than a passing interest and want to do it not just because of their relationship to you. Lottery playing methodology and strategy can also be very difficult to convey, which does little to sell them on the idea of pooling their money to gain a strategic advantage. Sure there are many successful lottery pools on the local level. I believe though for most people that finding, forming or joining a local lottery pool would be difficult.

So what are the pros and cons of starting an online lottery pool?
Some things that come to mind to consider before launching an online lottery pool: Trust and security, legal considerations, monetary transactions including fees(if any) for services provided by third parties, ticket aquisition and a separate interactive interface for pool members.

I was checking out the member list tonite and noticed that about ten percent of the total membership has been added in the last month. Lots of lurkers. BTW - I wasn't looking for a lottery site when I came here. I typed "strange" in a Google seach and Felinelovers post about a strange dream was in the first fifty results. Read the post to the end, then noticed this was a lottery website. I'm not new to lottery by any means, just new to this forum. Been out of the scene for a fews years now, but strangely fate has dealt me a mote of renewed interest ;-)

Okay, simple yes or no poll. Would you join an online pool if it were offered on the Lottery Post website with the above noted concerns addressed to your satisfaction?

    Avatar
    Columbia City, Indiana
    United States
    Member #2978
    December 9, 2003
    381 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: March 2, 2004, 11:39 pm - IP Logged

    My initial response would be a resounding "NO." If the pool were properly organized, however, I might reconsider.

    I've been a member of these pools before, but they were very informal. Consequently, the rules changed from week to week, and no one got paid.        One of them did very well. We used a system which covered every number in the field ten times for $80.00. We hit four numbers almost every draw, and hit five numbers twice in two months. Rather than split any money we won though, the man who organized it decided to "reinvest" our winnings in scratch-off tickets to try to win a seat on the TV show. Oddly, I was the only one in the pool who was upset over this, and I dropped out. They never did get on the show, and dventually the pool broke up.

    Another one bought a hundred quick-picks for each draw. There were ten of us in that one, and the guy who started it would collect the money and buy the tickets. The problem here was that no one else in the pool knew what the numbers were. I wasted twenty bucks on that one, and dropped out after he refused to provide me with copies of the tickets.

    If this is going to work, we'll need a system of checks and balances to ensure that one person in the pool has no more advantage than another. If the pool buys quick-picks, everyone involved would need photocopies of all the tickets before the drawing takes place. Another viable method would be to scan the tickets and post them to our own thread here, with Todd's permission, of course and, again, they'd have to be posted before the drawing.

    Then there's the matter of securing the tickets. Would we put them in a dual-key safety deposit box, with two people each holding one key, or just carry them around in our shirt pockets? 

    What about shares? If a member of the pool drops out, can another member buy his share, or would we recruit another member? 

    To maximize your winnings, we'd have to limit the number of members. What would be the maximum number of members?

    I've read about members of winning pools suing when they "forgot" to pay for their shares before a drawing, or perhaps they were ill and couldn't get out of bed to pay that week. How would we handle this contingency?

    What about legal counsel? Is it necessary at the outset, or only when we win?

    These are just a few of the issues we'd have to deal with, and I believe that's why most lottery pools break up after a short time. It sounds like fun at first, but the first time something goes wrong, resentment begins to build. That's really all resentment does, unfortunately; it never subsides. 

    Each member must have an equal voice, but the majority rules. The equivalent of military structure would be essential, I think, if this is to be successful. Hard and fast rules with absolutely no grey areas; everything is spelled out in black-and-white. 

    If we could accomplish that, I'd commit to it, depending on the chosen game.

    Good luck...

    Jim   


      China
      Member #3032
      December 16, 2003
      1081 Posts
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      Posted: March 3, 2004, 3:57 am - IP Logged

      If this is going to work, we'll need a system of checks and balances to ensure that one person in the pool has no more advantage than another. If the pool buys quick-picks, everyone involved would need photocopies of all the tickets before the drawing takes place. Another viable method would be to scan the tickets and post them to our own thread here, with Todd's permission, of course and, again, they'd have to be posted before the drawing.

      maybe todd can set up a lotto poll here for us.


        China
        Member #3032
        December 16, 2003
        1081 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: March 3, 2004, 8:10 am - IP Logged

        We have not won anything substantial yet, just quite a few 3 of 5 and 3 of 6 wins.  But, we are exploring new ideas and hope to win something big soon.

        keep on the good work

        I have a question here:

        where does the money to buy the tickets come from if our join is free?

          Lottery_Analyst's avatar - Batman
          Georgia
          United States
          Member #1039
          January 15, 2003
          260 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: March 3, 2004, 8:32 am - IP Logged

          Hi Goose,

          To join is free, to play is not free.  Right now each member contributes US$5.00 to each drawing.  We can discuss details in a private message.

          Thanks,

          John


            China
            Member #3032
            December 16, 2003
            1081 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: March 3, 2004, 8:52 am - IP Logged

            check your pm lotto-analyst

              Jake649's avatar - scene sunovermountains.jpg

              Canada
              Member #2673
              November 2, 2003
              497 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: March 3, 2004, 2:38 pm - IP Logged

              I am interested in participating in an online pool. Here is a suggestion that may work.

              Let us say that 10 people decide to participate and they each agree to spend $100 per year. Each person in the group would spend $100 on behalf of the group. The group would decide what types of games and numbers are played.

              The advantage is that money does not have to be mailed around. Only if the group wins a large amount would money be transferred. With different members living in different jurisdictions, then the group would have access to games across the US and Canada.

              For example, I would like to belong to such a group right now if one of the members lived in Massachusetts so we could play the Mass Millions game with its postive expected value.

              We would all agree ahead of time on the games to play, the jackpot levels and the numbers.

              Good luck,
              Jake

                RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
                mid-Ohio
                United States
                Member #9
                March 24, 2001
                17444 Posts
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                Posted: March 3, 2004, 3:21 pm - IP Logged
                Quote: Originally posted by Jake649 on March 03, 2004



                Let us say that 10 people decide to participate and they each agree to spend $100 per year. Each person in the group would spend $100 on behalf of the group. 








                There are 52 weeks in a year and most major lottery have drawings twice a week, so any person wanting to play any lottery all year around have to be willing to take the time to travel to a local store twice a week and spend a dollar for a lottery ticket, which amounts to $104 and a lot of time.  You want to find a group or pool that would do the same thing for $100 - Good luck.

                RJOh 

                * Thoses who can, do * 
                * thoses who can't, just talk *
                Roll Eyes 

                  Lottery_Analyst's avatar - Batman
                  Georgia
                  United States
                  Member #1039
                  January 15, 2003
                  260 Posts
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                  Posted: March 3, 2004, 3:38 pm - IP Logged

                  Jake,

                  I agree with RJOh.  You are asking alot of others.  If you really want to do what you are proposing in any type of legal manner, you have no idea what is involved.

                  Like I stated before, I run a club/pool in Georgia for the 3 Lottery games we have here and let me tell you it is very time consuming.  I probably spend between 15 to 20 hours a week filling out game cards, buying tickets, emailing the members and updating the website daily.  I am not complaining because I enjoy doing it.  I don't make a penny from my club unless we win something.  What I am getting is the reward of new friendships and the hope that we will one day soon win a substantial prize buying all these tickets. 

                  The only true way to have anything close to what you are proposing is to have it in writing via a contract.  Let's say hypothetically, one of the members you mentioned in Massachusetts buys the winning lottery ticket.  Who cashes in the winning ticket?  Who is held responsible for all the taxes?

                  I second the statement - Good Luck...


                    China
                    Member #3032
                    December 16, 2003
                    1081 Posts
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                    Posted: March 3, 2004, 7:55 pm - IP Logged

                    success or not,all depends on the prediction.

                      waynr's avatar - moon2

                      United States
                      Member #3813
                      February 23, 2004
                      52 Posts
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                      Posted: March 3, 2004, 8:18 pm - IP Logged

                      When I wrote "if it were offered on the Lottery Post website", I wasn't talking about an invitation to join posted to a discussion forum. What I had in mind is dead already if Todd gives it the thumbs down. I was talking about Todd providing an area for lottery pools. Try to visualize the following: Another menu button added on the left side of the page. It could be named LP Pools. Under this button are three submenus consisting of:

                      Ongoing Pools (Locked and viewable only to the members of each particular pool)

                      Open Pools (This is where a new pool is forming or an established one is open to new participants)

                      Test Area (This is where dry runs are made. A set of ticket numbers are pasted in a column and locked in for a set time. Open for viewing to all where members can shop around for potential winners).

                      In all three areas there would be statistical data displayed on total number of tickets and actual win/loss figures for the game the pool pertains to. This is the interactive interface I mentioned in the post. So if Todd doesn't mind all the extra work the other problematic things could possibly be worked out. I would like to see it myself else I wouldn't be spending time thinking and writing about it. Like I said - lots of lurkers. I would encourage people to vote either way, no one's head is gonna explode if you do.

                        Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                        Chief Bottle Washer
                        New Jersey
                        United States
                        Member #1
                        May 31, 2000
                        21231 Posts
                        Online
                        Posted: March 3, 2004, 8:42 pm - IP Logged

                        waynr,

                        Who knows?  Maybe someday.  It would take a great deal of research on my part to make it happen.  I would want to make sure everything was bullet-proof before embarking on such an endeavor.

                        I also have some other ideas kicking around -- things that exist nowhere on the planet -- that might even be better than pools.  Unfortunately, because of the complexity, it will be some time before even the concept can be revealed.  (Probably after I apply for a patent.)

                         

                        Check the State Lottery Report Card
                        What grade did your lottery earn?

                         

                        Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                        Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                          waynr's avatar - moon2

                          United States
                          Member #3813
                          February 23, 2004
                          52 Posts
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                          Posted: March 3, 2004, 10:29 pm - IP Logged
                          Quote: Originally posted by Todd on March 03, 2004



                          waynr,

                          Who knows?  Maybe someday.  It would take a great deal of research on my part to make it happen.  I would want to make sure everything was bullet-proof before embarking on such an endeavor.

                          I also have some other ideas kicking around -- things that exist nowhere on the planet -- that might even be better than pools.  Unfortunately, because of the complexity, it will be some time before even the concept can be revealed.  (Probably after I apply for a patent.)





                          I was thinking you would be providing just the areas with a notice of disclaimer. Of course you wouldn't want fraud taking place on your website. But there will always be fraudsters trying to unbullet-proof the bullet-proof for the challenge if for no other reason. Yes, there would be many areas to work out and would depend on the members collaborations on how they would want their pool set up. Maybe have a mini forum for pool members, you could call it "Pool Talk". Anyhow, I think a test area would be a good start. People have more incentive to act on something they can see and compare.

                          Good luck with the patent. I have one that expired last month after 14 years. Never made a cent. It was complex too. Different topic and time, hope you do better.

                          Thanks

                            Jake649's avatar - scene sunovermountains.jpg

                            Canada
                            Member #2673
                            November 2, 2003
                            497 Posts
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                            Posted: March 4, 2004, 12:12 pm - IP Logged
                            Quote: Originally posted by RJOh on March 03, 2004



                            Quote: Originally posted by Jake649 on March 03, 2004



                            Let us say that 10 people decide to participate and they each agree to spend $100 per year. Each person in the group would spend $100 on behalf of the group. 







                            There are 52 weeks in a year and most major lottery have drawings twice a week, so any person wanting to play any lottery all year around have to be willing to take the time to travel to a local store twice a week and spend a dollar for a lottery ticket, which amounts to $104 and a lot of time.  You want to find a group or pool that would do the same thing for $100 - Good luck.

                            RJOh 





                            RJOh,

                            I was using the 10 person and $100 simply as an example. No where did I suggest someone would buy one ticket per draw for 100 draws. I think you missed the entire concept. Let me explain it another way.

                            By conducting an online pool one can achive something that cannot be easily done with an office pool. Each person in the online pool could buy from their state/country and then all of the big lottery jackpots could be covered. For example, the group could adopt the rule to buy tickets when the lottery in their area has a record jackpot. Then in a one year period, the group may be able to buy tickets for Mega Millions, Powerball, Florida, Texas, and California when those state's lotteries reach record levels. Rather than buy tickets every week, save the money for the large jackpot opportunities.

                            Therefore an online pool would offer something that a simple office/firends pool could not.

                            Good luck,
                            Jake

                              Jake649's avatar - scene sunovermountains.jpg

                              Canada
                              Member #2673
                              November 2, 2003
                              497 Posts
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                              Posted: March 4, 2004, 12:15 pm - IP Logged
                              Quote: Originally posted by Lottery_Analyst on March 03, 2004


                              I agree with RJOh.  You are asking alot of others.  If you really want to do what you are proposing in any type of legal manner, you have no idea what is involved.



                              Lottery_Analyst,

                              First I did not ask anything of others. Only made a suggestion. Please read my response to RJOh.

                              Second, I have both conducted and participated in several lottery pools and I have a very good idea of what is involved.

                              Good luck,
                              Jake