random means it cannot be defined

Reply #27

nonlinear — Sun, 19 Feb 2006 01:52:17 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by hareless on February 13, 2006 I tried to explain to her that once you flip a coin more than one time in a setting it is no longer random. It no longer is 50/50.

If you flip a coin 10 times and it's 10 tails in a row, there is still a 50/50 chance of getting tails on the 11th flip.

Reply #26

RJOh — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:47:22 GMT

Lotteries are not undefined events. They have a discrete number of outcomes. A pick3 has 1000 possible outcomes, pick4 has 10,000 and etc. Now if the number 50 came up in a 649 lottery, that would be undefined, unexpected and unacceptable because it would not be within the definition of a 649 lottery. Lotteries appear to be random because most players only choose a few of the possible outcomes per drawings which seldom include the actual outcome, but a list of all the possible outcomes will a... [ More ]

Reply #25

Clairvoyance — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:19:43 GMT

Randomness Generated by a Computer System Draw?.........I THINK NOT!

When is the last time your computer turned its self on with out your input? Yes Computers need to be programmed or Told what to do before they do it and that has nothing to do with randomness what so ever.

Traditionally, randomness takes on an operational meaning in natural science: something is apparently random if its cause cannot be determined or controlled and computerized draws are Controlled because again a compute... [ More ]

Reply #24

cmpmcg25 — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 22:48:26 GMT

I would like to know when do they test draw, and how long before they start the real draw for results.

Reply #23

truecritic — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:26:35 GMT

HeHe...lots of people see things other people don't see

Reply #22

cats135 — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:01:18 GMT

I totally agree. I argue with my son about this too.

I definitely see patterns that other people don't.

Reply #21

LANTERN — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:47:25 GMT

Yes they know and of course they don't want people to know, they want people to believe in Random and in how hopeless it is to try to predict winning numbers. That is why we have so many NEGATIVE people here at LP, doing work for the state lotteries, willing or not as it might be, it is kind of hard to tell for sure, some of them really seem to believe in all that Random trash, that goes to show us how little people really know.

I think that I have proved more than once that Random is what yo... [ More ]

Reply #20

BobP — Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:52:03 GMT

The lottery knows their game isn't random, that's why they go to all the trouble of mixing up multiple ballsets and machines, conducting test draws and removing a ballset and machine if they don't like the test draw result.

I think you'd find a year or more of draw history (100+) from a single machine and ballset would give you useful data to work with. BobP

Reply #19

popeye — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:25:51 GMT

A very good book on randomness is

RANDOMNESS by Deborah J. Bennett.

Easy to read and plenty of real examples.

Covers large Numbers which explains a lot about the beast.

Reply #18

WIN D — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:58:30 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by Coin Toss on February 14, 2006 Win D

The casinos have doulbe up rules because theorhetically someone with deep enough pockets coupd beat any game. Theorhetically.

Starting with a $1 loss a series of losses, $1, $2, $4, $8, $16, $32, $64, $128, $256, $512, $1024, $2048, $4096, $8192 would then call for a $16,384 bet

to show a gain of $1 if the bet wins. But after the $8192 bet the house would only allow $10,000.

This type of system is called a Martingale... [ More ]

Reply #17

Coin Toss — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 05:14:52 GMT

Win D

The casinos have doulbe up rules because theorhetically someone with deep enough pockets coupd beat any game. Theorhetically.

Starting with a $1 loss a series of losses, $1, $2, $4, $8, $16, $32, $64, $128, $256, $512, $1024, $2048, $4096, $8192 would then call for a $16,384 bet

to show a gain of $1 if the bet wins. But after the $8192 bet the house would only allow $10,000.

This type of system is called a Martingale and the casinos love to see people try it.

Double u... [ More ]

Reply #16

LottoBuster — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 04:14:29 GMT

Despite the randomness of any given lottery draw it doesn't change the odds of an individual number's chances of coming in.

With Keno each number in an 80/20 draw has a 4 to 1 chance of hitting, which means over the long run you'll still find that each number has hit about the right amount of times that it should have.

It may take days or even weeks for a specific number to come in but then you'll notice it makes up for it by hitting repeatedly for a while. That makes it possible even in... [ More ]

Reply #15

WIN D — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 03:13:09 GMT

Quote: Originally posted by Coin Toss on February 13, 2006 Coins, dice, roulette balls, etc... have no memory . Over the course of thousands of rolls of a pair of dice, 12 will have been rolled once every 36 times, 36 combinations on a pair of dice and only one way to make a 12, a 6 and a 6.

But in no way, shape or form does that means if you were to stand at a crap table and wait for 35 consecutive rolls without a 12 that the next roll would be a 12 (people actually do this). It might be. I... [ More ]

Reply #14

ayenowitall — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 02:06:40 GMT

With respect to lottery drawings, random means (1) that every number has an equal chance of being drawn and (2) the outcome of the drawings cannot be routinely or reliably predicted. I don't believe either of those two conditions to be the case with any lottery drawing that I know of. Randomness is just as difficult to create as it is to decipher, so I don't believe that lottery drawings are truly random. Anything less than perfect randomness is not random. Consequently, I don't believe that any... [ More ]

Reply #13

LANTERN — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 01:52:12 GMT

But do remember that if Random is not Pro-You it is also not against you, more like neutral.

Stats and chances, that is all that there is to go by, I think, Unless I am wrong (?).

Reply #12

CalifDude — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 01:31:03 GMT

Reply #11

Coin Toss — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 01:28:59 GMT

Coins, dice, roulette balls, etc... have no memory . Over the course of thousands of rolls of a pair of dice, 12 will have been rolled once every 36 times, 36 combinations on a pair of dice and only one way to make a 12, a 6 and a 6.

But in no way, shape or form does that means if you were to stand at a crap table and wait for 35 consecutive rolls without a 12 that the next roll would be a 12 (people actually do this). It might be. It might show for the next four rolls in a row. Or it may no... [ More ]

Reply #10

truecritic — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 01:19:15 GMT

hareless

>you would think just the fact I can at least predict one number to fall everyday without a computer was pretty good....some people!

Exactly what do you mean by one number?

1 digit? Or one number like 123?

And are you saying straight? Or boxed?

Are these winning numbers posted here someplace? Have you explained your method or is it your secret

Reply #9

hypersoniq — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 01:00:57 GMT

been pondering random as of late...

to me, random means the data in a set has no correlation, EVERY number in the list is an INDEPENDENT variable. what appear to be patterns emerge over time, but in my futile study of announcers (basically, if a 9 is drawn and a 7 follows it more than every other number, then 7 should be a good bet, but it's not that easy) I have come to understand a false pattern. palindromes are actual patterns (for instance if the red ball was, in a series of 5 draws... 14... [ More ]

Reply #8

TheGameGrl — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 00:59:03 GMT

ummm...not that I mastered in math but the odds do not change on a coin toss no matter how many times you flip them. each individual toss carries the same odds. Now if you want to talk about how gravity plays a part in the toss THEN maybe an open debate could ensue.

Reply #7

hareless — Tue, 14 Feb 2006 00:07:43 GMT

too bad I can't seem to get past that. LOL.

Reply #6

Tenaj — Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:57:33 GMT

That's is pretty good.

Reply #5

Raven62 — Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:17:44 GMT

The pattern is that it has no pattern.

Reply #4

hareless — Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:53:18 GMT

HA! true.. in a sense...That is what it means to everyone who thinks because it has yet to give a pattern it must be random. That is why the definition is written that way.

Just because something doesn't register as a pattern you understand doesn't mean that it is not one.

Random only happens once. After that is is a pattern defined or undefined. It is no longer random.

Reply #3

Raven62 — Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:47:54 GMT

Actually Random means: lack of definite aim or intention; without plan or order; haphazardly

Over time seemingly random events take on the appearance of having a pattern, even though they do not.

Reply #2

hareless — Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:45:04 GMT

you would think just the fact I can at least predict one number to fall everyday without a computer was pretty good....some people

Reply #1

Tenaj — Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:40:42 GMT

The way to shut people like that up is to SHOW THEM THE MONEY

random means it cannot be defined

hareless — Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:30:48 GMT

Yet.

That is why the word random is used to define something because a pattern has yet to be detected. My opinion.

Arguing with a friend this weekend, who will not think beyond lottery is random, end of story. Which is fact to her. She tried to use the whole flipping the coin theory to prove her point. I tried to explain to her that once you flip a coin more than one time in a setting it is no longer random. It no longer is 50/50. Same with numbers. The thing is, that was somethin... [ More ]