Florida's ridiculous ball and machine testing scam

Reply #63

amber123 — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 17:58:32 GMT

Well then you come up with an adjective that describes your inability to understand what a 12 year old can. It has to be some kind of mental issue. Sorry if that offends you, but there's nothing to be embarrassed about, there are plenty of professional head doctors who can help you, and I can't make it any simpler, sorry.

I'm not drawing pictures either.

Reply #62

Stack47 — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 17:29:49 GMT

Name calling doesn't change the fact you can't prove pre-drawing testing has a real effect on official drawings and it won't make your crappy after the drawing systems work either.

Reply #61

amber123 — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 13:37:14 GMT

You should've sued he doctor that dropped you on your head when you were a baby.

It's just NOT possible for people to be this effing stupid, it's just NOT possible. How did you ever live this long

Reply #60

amber123 — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 13:32:21 GMT

They must be be putting vaseline in the Kentucky water. Stop drinking it now !

You're another one who doesn't get it and never will. I refuse to keep rewriting everyhing. Keep your head in the sand if you want, who cares.

Reply #59

Stack47 — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 06:56:39 GMT

Amber believes patterns, only seen by trained eyes will appear if lotteries do nothing to insure each three digit combos has an equal chance of being drawn. Probably complained about casinos using measures to prevent card marking and loaded dice too.

Unlike other things you've said, that's clearly the result of stupidity rather than simple ignorance.

I'm guessing you never read any of their systems.

Reply #58

Stack47 — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 06:45:55 GMT

From my previous post: You (or nobody else) have offered an explanation of how Florida or any other state's testing prevents any of the 1000 three digits combos from being drawn.

If you really believe any type of pre-drawing testing has an effect on the official drawings preventing any of the 1000 three digits combos from being drawn, why not educate the new members?

I'm not not trying start or enhance any existing confusion already here but, I tend to fully concur with amber and her anal... [ More ]

Reply #57

KY Floyd — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 05:38:13 GMT

Do you not find it strange that Texas has the same lottery contractor as Florida and they publish the pre-draws and Florida doesn't?

No, I don't. Maybe it's because I know that Florida and Texas are different states and their lottery contractors operate under the rules of the lottery.

Reply #56

KY Floyd — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 05:35:48 GMT

liquids in space will immediately form a circle.

Well, if you think that in space is the same as zero-G and that a circle and a sphere are the same thing then that's true, as long as other conditions are also met. And, just as with the shape of planets and stars there's a very simple reason why it happens, but it has nothing to do with your delusions about the universe requiring things to balance out.

Numbers drawn in a stand alone atmosphere, without the official's meddling will eventua... [ More ]

Reply #55

Stack47 — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 05:28:03 GMT

What if the 5 draws were 25189?

Looking at the last five Florida Cash 3 Evening drawings, five different digits were drawn in the middle position. There are probably lots of examples where a digit was drawn three times in five drawings and maybe a few times when a digit was drawn five out of eight which is the test conditions for using an alternative ball set.

What is the probability of one of those digits, returning in the real draw.

There is a 50% chance.

Do they have time to c... [ More ]

Reply #54

grwurston — Wed, 29 Jun 2016 01:17:47 GMT

Getting back to the topic...

One time I called the lottery offices and asked for the pre draw test results. They asked me, which day did I want? I said I want them for every day. They said they couldn't do that. I asked why not and they just hung up.

You guys from Texas are lucky that you get to see them, most of us can't.

Reply #53

amber123 — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:36:18 GMT

It's obvious that you and stack would make a great couple sharing the same padded room.

If you really believe it's natural for the number 7 to repeat 50 times in a row, then you need extra padding.

As far as your pathetic understanding of science, liquids in space will immediately form a circle. Numbers drawn in a stand alone atmosphere, without the official's meddling will eventually balance themselves out, but the influence they have makes the numbers show erratically. I don't expec... [ More ]

Reply #52

amber123 — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:23:08 GMT

You really do have a comprehension issue. No matter what I write in response gets twisted around because you have NOTHING of value to defend what I write. It's pointless to continue with a lame brain like you.

Only a moron like you would continue betting money in a Casino If they threw dice five times and it didn't count. Either you're a moron, or a troll. You don't get it, and never will.

A twelve year old could understand this.

Reply #51

CARBOB — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:06:31 GMT

Do you not find it strange that Texas has the same lottery contractor as Florida and they publish the pre-draws and Florida doesn't? That is my biggest concern, they are hiding something. Forget the BS about an auditor. They could have 10 pre-draws and we would never know, unless they were published.

Reply #50

CARBOB — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:40:11 GMT

What if the same digit is nothing, but a disguise? What if the 5 draws were 25189? What is the probability of one of those digits, returning in the real draw. Do they have time to check how many tickets were sold using those digits. Who is to say, they only have 5 pre-draws

Reply #49

KY Floyd — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 06:01:37 GMT

it's tendency, strictly by nature's own rules, dictates that the same number being less likely to show in the following draws.

Aside from the idea that there's no reasonable basis to think things work that way, the evidence from past drawings makes it incredibly obvious that it doesn't work that way.

Everything in the universe wants to balance itself out, correct itself.

I'm willing to consider the possibility that there's some force, cause, whatever you want to call it, that actuall... [ More ]

Reply #48

Stack47 — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 03:51:04 GMT

Really? Are you telling me you didn't understand what he wrote?

I quoted the Florida rules If the same digit is selected three times during the five draws, . Which part of the same digit are you confusing with pairs?

In Carbob's example, the same digit 7 was drawn multiple times. They put 10 numbered balls into a container, and conduct five test drawings and do the same thing with the other two containers with two other sets of 10 numbered balls.

he is telling you what the odds are fo... [ More ]

Reply #47

Stack47 — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 03:19:24 GMT

What a horrible analogy you wrote above.

It was an explanation of the measures casinos use to create random outcomes, but apparently you don't understand casino or lottery process because you think it's an analogy . Why do you think a Craps dealer offers 5 dice to the shooter?

Why do you think some Blackjack tables use 8 decks?

Well that's fine, but the dealer doesn't say to the shooter, the first 5 rolls won't count, we must make sure those dice aren't rigged..

Show me where I sa... [ More ]

Reply #46

amber123 — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 01:20:36 GMT

If the same digit is selected three times during the five draws, and Let's say 7 happens, then the probability it will repeat is 1/100 or 1% since there is only one way the 7 can repeat as 7 7; there are 99 other ways it does not.

Wow!!!

I'm assuming same digit means exactly that and when one of the 10 digits is selected three times in five draws, more tests are conducted. The odds of seven or any other digit being drawn are 10 to 1, where did you come up with the other 90 digits... [ More ]

Reply #45

Stack47 — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 00:43:28 GMT

I'm not a lottery employee, but these pre-drawing test either have an effect on the official drawing or they don't; which is it?

If the same digit is selected three times during the five draws, and Let's say 7 happens, then the probability it will repeat is 1/100 or 1% since there is only one way the 7 can repeat as 7 7; there are 99 other ways it does not.

Wow!!!

I'm assuming same digit means exactly that and when one of the 10 digits is selected three times in five draws, more tests... [ More ]

Reply #44

grwurston — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 22:24:55 GMT

Yeah, I was thinking, How can I get a straight with only 2 cards. Hmm, . That was a good one.

Reply #43

Lucky Loser — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:37:24 GMT

Now, for Black Jack. You sit down at the table with your favorite drink and are feeling pretty good....nice and tipsy. The dealer shuffles the cards a few times and then deals a hand...you have a 'straight'

Man, I got roasted today on this! Hey, I didn't know you could get a straight in Black Jack!!! Is it like a 'straight twenty-one flush'? Does this also mean that you keep rolling in Craps until you get closest to twenty-one or bust? If I spin a seven or eleven in Roulette on the first spin... [ More ]

Reply #42

Lucky Loser — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 06:16:27 GMT

Stack, come on now...it's me. You and I have discussed this before along with many other current and former members. Have you ever stopped to realize that so many new members come here and re-open this same discussion over and over again? It's happening for a reason, my friend. I'm not not trying start or enhance any existing confusion already here but, I tend to fully concur with amber and her analogy which piggy-backs my casino assertion, okay.

If you complain about the casino process, wha... [ More ]

Reply #41

grwurston — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:50:00 GMT

why would anyone bother with such minuscule data, There has to be a motive, for so much concern with such a small stat.

If it's such a small stat, then why are they so concerned with it? Why would they feel the need to run additional tests when it happens? Wouldn't it be totally random? That's what they claim every thing is, right? The only reason to do additional tests, would be to prevent a digit from going on a hot streak which the players might pick up on. In which case they are trying to... [ More ]

Reply #40

amber123 — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:16:59 GMT

If you played Craps you would know the shooter has to pick two dice out of five or six. Roulette dealers randomly spins the ball clock wise or counter clock wise and that's after wheels are routinely checked for balance. Eight decks of cards are changed on Blackjack tables and decks are changed at least once a shift on other card games.

If you complain about the casino process, what do you think they will tell you?

If you played Craps you would know the shooter has to pick t... [ More ]

Reply #39

CARBOB — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 12:36:39 GMT

Some state lotteries have over $1 billion in annual sales and you believe they care what you call their processes.

You (or nobody else) have offered an explanation of how Florida or any other state's testing prevents any of the 1000 three digits combos from being drawn. It's really simple; if you don't like the testing, don't play.

Why does this part of your post, gives me the impression, you are a Tn Lottery Employee?

From FL Lottery

(e) For CASH 3?, five test draws will be c... [ More ]

Reply #38

Stack47 — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 00:26:42 GMT

I cannot help but to still refer back to my casino scenario where no such method exists.

If you played Craps you would know the shooter has to pick two dice out of five or six. Roulette dealers randomly spins the ball clock wise or counter clock wise and that's after wheels are routinely checked for balance. Eight decks of cards are changed on Blackjack tables and decks are changed at least once a shift on other card games.

If you complain about the casino process, what do you think they... [ More ]

Reply #37

Lucky Loser — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 21:54:00 GMT

I cannot help but to still refer back to my casino scenario where no such method exists. These commissions are preempting the possible draw results based on cycling the numbers through in my opinion. Pre-tests directly affect what happens between the last official draw and the next one by cycling the balls through multiple times, and, it's based on the law of repetition. Just take your time and pick a given state's draw history, along with its' pre-tests, to see how often a single digit repeats... [ More ]

Reply #36

eddessaknight — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 19:12:55 GMT

AYE AMEN TO THAT AMBER

LOTTERY: 'LOVE ON THE ROCKS'

The water cannot talk without the rocks, ~ James Richardson

In Vegas , it's been historically known the only way to extract the truth from game operators is via a court order or by a 45 caliber

Fortes Fortuna Harmonia Juvat

Eddessa_Knight w/Light

Reply #35

helpmewin — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:30:27 GMT

Maybe this testing will be better for the players.

Reply #34

amber123 — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 03:07:23 GMT

Edit: and contacting them to fess up, we know they won't,

I meant that their answer was insufficient. They did reply.

I enjoy Wild Turkey 101.

Reply #33

amber123 — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 02:29:16 GMT

What awesome replies, and contacting them to fess up, we know they won't, but it's nice to know they're reading this and realizing they can't fool us..

I want to start a petition. Dr65 was on the money, we pay for a service WE think is fair and random, not how they think random is defined.

The only thing I can end this with is that we must find a way to beat them at their own game. The way I do it is to bet somewhere else. I need all the edge I can get my hands on, thanks to the Florida... [ More ]

Reply #32

grwurston — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 00:12:03 GMT

Doing pre tests to make sure the machines work properly is a excuse. As stated in the OP, the lotteries already have procedures in place in case of a malfunction. Okay fine, IF the machine screws up, follow the procedure and move on. End of story.

It's like going out at night and starting your car every 15 minutes, because you want to make sure it will start when you leave for work in the morning. There's no guarantee it will start when you leave. Same thing with the pre-tests.

Just have... [ More ]

Reply #31

Lucky Loser — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 23:25:34 GMT

Bottom line is, they are trying to control or alter the true randomness of the games. If they weren't you wouldn't the tests in the first place.

I agree with you, grwurston. A player should just sit down and really ask themselves why the commissions need to draw FOUR TIMES from each chamber. They say that it's to protect the integrity of randomness and to ensure the machines are working properly but, I disagree. Once they go into their 'secret room' all they need to do is fire the 'ball agita... [ More ]

Reply #30

dr65 — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 23:25:01 GMT

If we are paying to play a game where a portion of the profits reaped are

benefitting school systems and education, we need to have it made available

to a certain degree, what is taking place in those games.

The need for disclosure isn't satisfied by calling one draw of 4 to 6 official.

Technically all the draws are official because they were done without error to

reach the final result.

Try taking your car to the car wash and they stop at pre-rinse and tell you, wait,

we... [ More ]

Reply #29

eddessaknight — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 22:14:42 GMT

, about covert intention, always have.....

Eddessa_Knight with Light

Reply #28

CARBOB — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 14:33:10 GMT

Received another call this morning, the response given to me about PRE-DRAWS was, There is really no need to publish the PRE-DRAWS, because they are not part of the official draws . I asked her why they were keeping this from the public, no response? I asked her about RANDOM DRAWS? Does anyone, on this website, believe that Florida's Lottery Draws are RANDOM? They are hiding the truth. Every lottery player in Florida need to be made aware of the PRE-DRAWS.

Reply #27

LiveInGreenBay — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:37:55 GMT

Two days ago I sent the WI lottery an e-mail. I asked why they conducted pre-tests on RNG computer drawings. Haven't heard from them yet. Not like they're using mechanical balls anymore. No reason for it except to confuse people who keep track of the numbers. Believe it or not, there seems to be a pattern (sometimes) with RNG computer drawings. I also noticed whenever there are a large amount of 500 dollar winners the pattern changes.

Reply #26

CARBOB — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:25:36 GMT

Got a call from Fl Lottery. The person claimed, they misunderstood my question. How, I don't know. I specifically stated PRE-DRAWS. She stated , she would try and find the information. I am positive the Pre-Draws started when G-Tech took over . I also asked. why does Texas make their Pre-Draws public and Florida does not.

Reply #25

CARBOB — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 19:16:25 GMT

Received a response from the Lottery, they completely dodged my question. Just like the Attorney General dodged the question at her press conference about the Orlando Terror rampage.

Reply #24

BobP — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 01:15:26 GMT

Reason why we need to view draw results as a sub sampling method. Funny when all their hard work backfires and the same Pick-3 number is drawn twice in a row. When this happens, make sure your computer isn't showing you the cache of the previous day's drawing.

BobP

Reply #23

CARBOB — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 19:13:48 GMT

Made a mistake, the draws I used were from the last part of 2007. Starting with 5/19/08 Mid draws. Every digit, but digit 5 has been drawn 3 times consecutive. Digits 3 and 9 are the only digits drawn 4 consecutive draws, maybe we can use this to our advantage. P1 only.

P2-Every digit has hit 3 consecutive draws. Digits 0,6,7 have hit 4 consecutive draws.

P3- Digit 0 is only digit to hit 4 consecutive draws.

Reply #22

CARBOB — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 18:47:53 GMT

Reply #21

morgothaod — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 13:48:05 GMT

8-8-8 hit yesterday, you know the lottery officials aren't happy. Payouts are always large on triples.

Reply #20

CARBOB — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:17:29 GMT

In Fl Mid, every digit 0-9 has hit a minimum of 3 consecutive draws in Position 1, at least once. How many times would they have hit 4 or more times in the official draw, without pre-tests.

Reply #19

bigdaddy — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 22:23:43 GMT

TN IS RNG AND THEY DON'T pretest atleast I can't tell if thy do.

Reply #18

ArizonaDream — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 21:50:26 GMT

I understand your point better now.

Is there any state known to not do pre-draws

Reply #17

Stack47 — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 21:28:18 GMT

The TN Lottery used the same RNG for its Cash 3, Cash 4, and Tennessee Cash games when somebody programmed it for no repeat digits and no doubles or triples were drawn in Cash 3 or 4 for about six weeks. Do you believe it makes a huge difference in the process any state lottery uses to conduct what they define as a random drawings

Reply #16

grwurston — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 21:15:20 GMT

Here is an example of 3 out of 5, plus the additional 3 tests.

June 6 thru 10 Pos 1. #5 3 out of 5 draws. June 11 thru 13 Pos 1. #5 2 out of 3. This what they are trying to prevent.

WHY? Because they are trying to prevent a number from becoming too hot. WHY? Because it is an advantage to the players.

HOW? It is a big advantage if you already know for certain one number. Now you only need 2 more for P3 or 3 more for P4.

Draw Date Results

Sat, Jun 18, 2016 5-7-0-6Prize Payou... [ More ]

Reply #15

grwurston — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 20:57:12 GMT

Yes there is 10 balls for each position.

My main point was, if a number shows 3 out 5 times in the same position, why does that throw up a red flag? Why do they even think it warrants an additional 3 tests? A number that does that is nothing out of the ordinary.

But if they are concerned about it in the pre-tests and it happens in the official draw, you can bet they will use a different ball set after the 5th draw, which would be why you won't see it in the three draws after that. Bottom l... [ More ]

Reply #14

grwurston — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 20:25:14 GMT

I'm still waiting for an answer from the lottery officials here for my earlier question... I hope I won't have to hold my breath too much longer. Here it is again, in case they missed it.

So, can someone please explain (preferably a lottery official... we know you're here) how with all this security in place, with all the witnesses, and the video taping that goes on, how the weight of the balls is going to change in the time frame between the pre-test draws, the official draw, and the post dr... [ More ]

Reply #13

ArizonaDream — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 20:23:23 GMT

You have examples where the first condition is met, but not the additional 2 of 3 that would disqualify the ball set.But what I'd like to know is if a pick 3 ball set is 10 balls or 30? I thought pick 3 used 3 machines, each machine with a set of 10 balls. If it's 30, I'll agree they set a ridiculous test condition, if 10, not so much.

Reply #12

grwurston — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 19:58:13 GMT

(d) For PLAY 4?, five test draws will be conducted. If the same digit is selected three times during the five draws, three additional test draws will be conducted. If the same digit is selected two additional times, an alternative ball set shall be used.

(e) For CASH 3?, five test draws will be conducted. If the same digit is selected three times during the five draws, three additional test draws will be conducted. If the same digit is selected two additional times, an alternative ball se... [ More ]

Reply #11

lakerben — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 19:56:06 GMT

Get the test numbers and average them ,then 111.

Peace, don't be intimidated by verbage ,act.

Reply #10

ArizonaDream — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 15:34:44 GMT

Are we talking about one digit repeating in any position of 3 or 4? I thought one ball set covered one position. I didn't see any examples of the same number coming up in the same position 4 of 6 and then 2 of 4 times in the few months I checked.

Reply #9

KY Floyd — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 15:18:18 GMT

They just described something that happens every week in every lottery there is, in the official draws. In the Pick 3 or Pick 4

I know this is a wildly crazy idea, but do you suppose that there's any chance that the number of balls used for pick 3 or 4 might, just maybe, be different than the number of balls used for lotto? And, even crazier, that if that's the case the probability of the same ball being drawn might be different for the two games

Reply #8

CARBOB — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 13:25:29 GMT

I agree, 150% with your analysis. I email the Lottery Office, asking this question. When did pre-draws testing begin ? I think it was when G_Tech became the contractor, not sure. Mid draws began shortly after G-tech took control, 5/19/08. I believe they took control, in late 07.

We will see if they answer the question.

Reply #7

zephbe — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 12:38:36 GMT

something doesn't sound right about all that testing . Like the lottery is making sure they don't have a lot of winners. Keep testing until you get numbers no one has played.

Reply #6

gonecrazy — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 12:27:44 GMT

What can you say. Florida is a money hungry state. Some one has to pay for the interstate 4 toll road.

Reply #5

dr65 — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 03:14:39 GMT

That is ridiculous. Do one and done and call it official. If they want to test the equipment,

maybe testing two days per month is sufficient.

Something smacks about ditching results as test runs. They're voiding perfectly fine

drawings in the names of up and up, honest and integrity.

Reply #4

amber123 — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 02:53:32 GMT

It's harder with RNG because of a certain code written by the programmer that deletes itself after the draw, so no trace can be detected. I read about this a while back. Not sure on the details.

Reply #3

grwurston — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 02:49:42 GMT

Good question. Maybe they're checking to make sure the number that comes up is the one they programmed to hit.

Reply #2

LiveInGreenBay — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 02:34:46 GMT

I wonder how this works in States that have RNG computers? I know they have pre-tests also, but what are they looking for in those pre-tests? There aren't any mechanical balls or machines.

Reply #1

grwurston — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 00:16:56 GMT

Wow!!! So if the same digit hits 3 times out of 5, or 4 times out of 6, they think there is problem with the balls?

They just described something that happens every week in every lottery there is, in the official draws. In the Pick 3 or Pick 4 if the digit 1 hits on Monday and Tuesday, skips Wednesday and Thursday, and hits on Friday, it just met their criteria for a problem with the ball set. Are you kidding me???

(11) Following removal of the balls from the drawing machine, the ball set... [ More ]

Florida's ridiculous ball and machine testing scam

amber123 — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 15:17:09 GMT

What a bunch of BS. There would be a better chance of me believing their excuses if they told me the Little red riding hood story.

DEPARTMENT OF THE LOTTERY

RULE NO.: RULE TITLE:

53ER14-40 Draw Procedures

SUMMARY: This emergency rule sets forth the draw procedures for the following Florida Lottery online terminal games: FLORIDA LOTTO?; FANTASY 5?; LUCKY MONEY?; PLAY 4? and CASH 3?. This emergency rule replaces Emergency Rule 53ER10-49.

THE PERSON TO BE CONTACTED REGARDING THE EME... [ More ]