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Proposed Buffett Rule and How It Would Apply to Some Lottery Winners Who Invest

Topic closed. 122 replies. Last post 3 years ago by haymaker.

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Should there be a minimum of 30% tax on long term capital gains?

Yes, the wealthy should pay their fair share. [ 15 ]  [28.85%]
No, things are just fine the way they are. [ 9 ]  [17.31%]
Neither, put in a flat tax for all types of income [ 18 ]  [34.62%]
Neither, I will explain below. [ 10 ]  [19.23%]
Total Valid Votes [ 52 ]  
Discarded Votes [ 5 ]  
Kumo's avatar - ebDWVf6 jpg?1

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Posted: February 13, 2012, 9:38 am - IP Logged

Some of the wealthiest Americans are just only at around 14% of their annual income due to long term capital gains. While others in the Middle class and Upper Middle Class pay up to 35% in taxes. What are your thoughts about the proposed Buffett Rule?

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    rdgrnr's avatar - walt
    Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
    United States
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    Posted: February 13, 2012, 10:27 am - IP Logged

    Some of the wealthiest Americans are just only at around 14% of their annual income due to long term capital gains. While others in the Middle class and Upper Middle Class pay up to 35% in taxes. What are your thoughts about the proposed Buffett Rule?

    Buffett is a jerk who's always trying to make himself look good. If he paid his secretary in stock, she'd be paying the same rate as him but that wouldn't make a nice touchy-feely story to deflect from his fighting tooth and nail to keep from paying taxes he already owes. He's just a fraud.

    And when you say you want the rich to "pay their fair share" as obama puts it, are you saying you want them to pay less taxes?

    Because factually, they already pay most of the taxes paid in this country.


                                                 
                         
                                             

     

     

     

     

                                                                                                       

    "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                --Edmund Burke

     

     

      CDanaT's avatar - tiger avatar_04_hd_pictures_169016.jpg
      TX
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      Posted: February 13, 2012, 10:55 am - IP Logged

      Buffett is a jerk who's always trying to make himself look good. If he paid his secretary in stock, she'd be paying the same rate as him but that wouldn't make a nice touchy-feely story to deflect from his fighting tooth and nail to keep from paying taxes he already owes. He's just a fraud.

      And when you say you want the rich to "pay their fair share" as obama puts it, are you saying you want them to pay less taxes?

      Because factually, they already pay most of the taxes paid in this country.

      Millionaire or billionaire, doesn't make that much difference when it comes to taxes....if Bufett pays less than 35%, so what.....what deductions does he have to get him down to the alleged 14% level or whatever level hes at ?  giving to charities  or running non profit organizations  pay medical expenses of other people through anonymous donations.... Who gives a rats "behind" if W.B pays 14% on his earnings...14% of 10 million dollars earned or whatever his earnings are at is a HECK OF ALOT than anyone will pay.... Funny, a large number of people all scream, "make the rich pay their fair share" but its the government who can't live on a what they take in....Want to really be fair to everyone equally ???  charge a flat tax and put the United States Government on a budget diet.   Patriot

      Stay Positive, Believe and good things will come your way

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        Kentucky
        United States
        Member #32652
        February 14, 2006
        5650 Posts
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        Posted: February 13, 2012, 11:08 am - IP Logged

        Some of the wealthiest Americans are just only at around 14% of their annual income due to long term capital gains. While others in the Middle class and Upper Middle Class pay up to 35% in taxes. What are your thoughts about the proposed Buffett Rule?

        Mitt Romney paid about $3 million in taxes from capital gains of about $21 million and someone winning $21 million from a lottery jackpot probably paid over $7 million. If the rules were changed, Romney would pay $7 million but there would be zero benefit to the lottery winner. Don't want to get into a discussion that probably belongs in a blog, but if the capital gain tax rules were changed, the "super rich" will probably invest much less or not at all so I don't see how that would benefit anyone.

          Kumo's avatar - ebDWVf6 jpg?1

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          January 27, 2012
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          Posted: February 13, 2012, 11:22 am - IP Logged

          Buffett is a jerk who's always trying to make himself look good. If he paid his secretary in stock, she'd be paying the same rate as him but that wouldn't make a nice touchy-feely story to deflect from his fighting tooth and nail to keep from paying taxes he already owes. He's just a fraud.

          And when you say you want the rich to "pay their fair share" as obama puts it, are you saying you want them to pay less taxes?

          Because factually, they already pay most of the taxes paid in this country.

          Heya rd. I'm keeping most of my own thoughts personal for a few days. I've not yet voted in my own poll.

          However, the Buffett Rule definitely looks like a political move by Mr. Obama.

          To answer your question, I am curious to see what other folks here think about it. Especially since it would likely apply to some current and future lottery jackpot winners.

            sully16's avatar - sharan
            Listens to the wind
            Michigan
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            Posted: February 13, 2012, 11:33 am - IP Logged

            Make the rich pay their fair share comes from the current government using class warfare.

            Having a billionaire pay more does nothing for me.

            We pay to much tax as a country in whole, enough is enough, government needs to curb is spending, stop the pork and the earmarks.

            Get rid of entitlements period, welfare..plain and simple ,YOU DON'T GET NONE !!!!!!

            The only people I hear screaming " make the rich pay more," are scuzzy polititions who want to get re-elected and people collecting entitlments.

            You get rid of WIC AND WELFARE, SECTION 8, GUESS WHAT, LESS PEOPLE WILL BE GETTING KNOCKED UP JUST SO THEY GET PUT INTO THE SYSTEM.

            Do you know what "mamas little money maker means? thats when people have their daughters get pregnant, they turn around and become foster parents (which pays very well ) and tada, the whole family benefits.

            Then you have the dis-abilty cheats, sucking the life out of SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICAID AND MEDICARE.

            You get rid of entitlements and 4 things will happen..

            1. People will pay more attention to birth control

            2. more people will find that job,

            3. they won't vote for <snip>s who feel they can take and take and take.

            4. with more people working and a more responsible government, guess what, no more financial problems. we all benefit.

             

            This post has been automatically changed by the Lottery Post computer system to remove inappropriate content and/or spam.

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              CDanaT's avatar - tiger avatar_04_hd_pictures_169016.jpg
              TX
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              Member #121198
              January 4, 2012
              1266 Posts
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              Posted: February 13, 2012, 11:45 am - IP Logged

              Make the rich pay their fair share comes from the current government using class warfare.

              Having a billionaire pay more does nothing for me.

              We pay to much tax as a country in whole, enough is enough, government needs to curb is spending, stop the pork and the earmarks.

              Get rid of entitlements period, welfare..plain and simple ,YOU DON'T GET NONE !!!!!!

              The only people I hear screaming " make the rich pay more," are scuzzy polititions who want to get re-elected and people collecting entitlments.

              You get rid of WIC AND WELFARE, SECTION 8, GUESS WHAT, LESS PEOPLE WILL BE GETTING KNOCKED UP JUST SO THEY GET PUT INTO THE SYSTEM.

              Do you know what "mamas little money maker means? thats when people have their daughters get pregnant, they turn around and become foster parents (which pays very well ) and tada, the whole family benefits.

              Then you have the dis-abilty cheats, sucking the life out of SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICAID AND MEDICARE.

              You get rid of entitlements and 4 things will happen..

              1. People will pay more attention to birth control

              2. more people will find that job,

              3. they won't vote for <snip>s who feel they can take and take and take.

              4. with more people working and a more responsible government, guess what, no more financial problems. we all benefit.

               

              This post has been automatically changed by the Lottery Post computer system to remove inappropriate content and/or spam.

              I Agree!   AAAMEN & very well put Sully !  Kudos to you on that one.......... Only issues that I can see is "you can't fix stupidityBash , issue common sense and stop political greedYellow Eyes".... When we solve those issues, man what an even greater country we will have.   God bless America !!!  Patriot

              Stay Positive, Believe and good things will come your way

                Kumo's avatar - ebDWVf6 jpg?1

                United States
                Member #122240
                January 27, 2012
                168 Posts
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                Posted: February 13, 2012, 12:15 pm - IP Logged

                Heya rd. I'm keeping most of my own thoughts personal for a few days. I've not yet voted in my own poll.

                However, the Buffett Rule definitely looks like a political move by Mr. Obama.

                To answer your question, I am curious to see what other folks here think about it. Especially since it would likely apply to some current and future lottery jackpot winners.

                A bit of a follow up, illustrates what led me to this question.

                I've done some old calculations in the past on CVO's after the 35% Uncle Sam share. They were fairly simple but accounted for the post 2012 Capital Gains tax of 20% as well as very conservative interest rates on investments. Each year further in the future was updated with the new totals of the principal balance as well as gained income that was reinvested.

                If something like the Buffett Rule goes into effect, it completely throws of my old calculations. Granted there are many other factors that can affect an investment, but I was looking at more of the long term picture when I did the math.

                  sully16's avatar - sharan
                  Listens to the wind
                  Michigan
                  United States
                  Member #81740
                  October 28, 2009
                  20605 Posts
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                  Posted: February 13, 2012, 12:20 pm - IP Logged

                  I Agree!   AAAMEN & very well put Sully !  Kudos to you on that one.......... Only issues that I can see is "you can't fix stupidityBash , issue common sense and stop political greedYellow Eyes".... When we solve those issues, man what an even greater country we will have.   God bless America !!!  Patriot

                  Thanks, I should have added a number 5, watch the national obesity rate drop.

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                    time*treat's avatar - radar

                    United States
                    Member #13130
                    March 30, 2005
                    2171 Posts
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                    Posted: February 13, 2012, 9:30 pm - IP Logged

                    Some of the wealthiest Americans are just only at around 14% of their annual income due to long term capital gains. While others in the Middle class and Upper Middle Class pay up to 35% in taxes. What are your thoughts about the proposed Buffett Rule?

                    The question implies the gov't spends the money in a more useful manner than the people earning it. Which it doesn't.

                    When the wealthy buy a fancy car or yacht, or build another huge house, the construction and upkeep of those items provides work for others.

                    Look around your own house. From the bricks, siding, insulation, wall studs, nails, & drywall, to the fixtures (sinks, baths) and tile & carpet & hardwood flooring, to the light switches and outlets and wiring, to the windows, appliances (washer, dryer, stove, HWH and furnace) and even the furniture -- lots of people making a living putting a piece of that puzzle together and a few more involved in the transportation of all those pieces.

                    Now, extrapolate that to what a wealthy person orders up when they build a new house.

                    How could anyone suggest that it's a better idea to send that money to D.C. rather than spread it out among people who actually do something productive to earn it?  Angry

                    D.C. is the biggest welfare queen of all and the "Buffett Rule" is her way of collecting a bigger check.

                    In neo-conned Amerika, bank robs you.
                    Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a govnoment agency.

                      Bigheadnick's avatar - badluck
                      Taunton, Ma
                      United States
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                      February 11, 2012
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                      Posted: February 13, 2012, 10:20 pm - IP Logged

                      Income tax should be abolished and instead impose a flat 5% federal sales tax on all domestic goods and services and a 6% tax on all imports.

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                        Republic of Texas
                        United States
                        Member #57557
                        January 9, 2008
                        1004 Posts
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                        Posted: February 14, 2012, 12:27 am - IP Logged

                        Income tax needs to be simplified, but a simple flat tax may not work. Taxes can be used for incentives in the free market. A low LT capital gains tax encourages investment, which is a good thing. To expand on that, why not make the first $10k in interest income tax free? These uber-rich who are paying low taxes are not getting all their income from LP capital gains tax, but also from dividends paid on the stock they own, including their own companies. Dividend income is taxed at 15% IF the taxpayer's tax rate is 25% or more. If the taxpayer's income tax rate is less than 25%, dividend income is taxed at 0%. There's an interesting rolling story between LT capital gains and dividend income that could put your tax rate at 0%.....

                        A mortgage interest deduction gives incentives to people to buy homes, as does the property tax deduction. So a flat tax would not benefit the housing market, and possibly hurt the housing market if current homeowner deductions are removed.

                        Even as suggested, an import tax could be added to incentivize US production. However, all these one sided Free Trade Agreements we have would be violated....

                        Lottery and gambing winnings should not be taxed as ordinary income, but should be taxed the same as LT capital gains. Neither are ordinary income for 99.9% of taxpayers.

                        I do believe that beyond a few simple incentives, a flat tax should be initiated, but it would have to take so much into consideration that it would no longer be a flat tax. The tax code needs to be scrapped and simplified, not necessarily flattened.

                        Nor should a consumption tax be the only tax in place of income tax. Lower income tax brackets and a small 1% national sales tax with the usual exemptions (food, services, etc) would be something to look into. However, a consumption tax by itself just invites all kinds of trouble. It starts the fall into VAT (value added tax) and HST (Harmonized Sales Tax - combination of sales & VAT tax) type taxation which taxes production from raw material to finished goods. EVERYTHING is taxed, and in some cases you can reclaim VAT/HST paid, but that is not always the case. I've seen these taxes, work with them every day, and they are a PITA. Not to mention the rates are usually 20-25% at each level of production.

                        face

                        singlewinnersinglewinnersinglewinner   

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                          United States
                          Member #94618
                          July 24, 2010
                          4735 Posts
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                          Posted: February 14, 2012, 4:51 am - IP Logged

                          Income tax needs to be simplified, but a simple flat tax may not work. Taxes can be used for incentives in the free market. A low LT capital gains tax encourages investment, which is a good thing. To expand on that, why not make the first $10k in interest income tax free? These uber-rich who are paying low taxes are not getting all their income from LP capital gains tax, but also from dividends paid on the stock they own, including their own companies. Dividend income is taxed at 15% IF the taxpayer's tax rate is 25% or more. If the taxpayer's income tax rate is less than 25%, dividend income is taxed at 0%. There's an interesting rolling story between LT capital gains and dividend income that could put your tax rate at 0%.....

                          A mortgage interest deduction gives incentives to people to buy homes, as does the property tax deduction. So a flat tax would not benefit the housing market, and possibly hurt the housing market if current homeowner deductions are removed.

                          Even as suggested, an import tax could be added to incentivize US production. However, all these one sided Free Trade Agreements we have would be violated....

                          Lottery and gambing winnings should not be taxed as ordinary income, but should be taxed the same as LT capital gains. Neither are ordinary income for 99.9% of taxpayers.

                          I do believe that beyond a few simple incentives, a flat tax should be initiated, but it would have to take so much into consideration that it would no longer be a flat tax. The tax code needs to be scrapped and simplified, not necessarily flattened.

                          Nor should a consumption tax be the only tax in place of income tax. Lower income tax brackets and a small 1% national sales tax with the usual exemptions (food, services, etc) would be something to look into. However, a consumption tax by itself just invites all kinds of trouble. It starts the fall into VAT (value added tax) and HST (Harmonized Sales Tax - combination of sales & VAT tax) type taxation which taxes production from raw material to finished goods. EVERYTHING is taxed, and in some cases you can reclaim VAT/HST paid, but that is not always the case. I've seen these taxes, work with them every day, and they are a PITA. Not to mention the rates are usually 20-25% at each level of production.

                          Piaceri, you make a lot of good points.  I think the mortgage market would do JUST FINE with out the deduction.  Very few people buy a house for the deduction anymore.  You buy a house because you need/want a place to live.  Remember CASH FOR CLUNKERS, they said once that stopped people would stop buying cars, now look - record profits (and by the way its nice to see)

                          I think it is time to at least TRY some form of a flat tax.  It is nice to at least hear the candidates talking about it, that is the 1st step.  The more they talk about it the better chance it has of coming true.

                          Its time to make some changes and that is not going to be easy for anyone, but its time. 

                            RL-RANDOMLOGIC's avatar - DiscoBallGlowing

                            United States
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                            March 13, 2008
                            2367 Posts
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                            Posted: February 14, 2012, 6:08 am - IP Logged

                            Make the rich pay their fair share comes from the current government using class warfare.

                            Having a billionaire pay more does nothing for me.

                            We pay to much tax as a country in whole, enough is enough, government needs to curb is spending, stop the pork and the earmarks.

                            Get rid of entitlements period, welfare..plain and simple ,YOU DON'T GET NONE !!!!!!

                            The only people I hear screaming " make the rich pay more," are scuzzy polititions who want to get re-elected and people collecting entitlments.

                            You get rid of WIC AND WELFARE, SECTION 8, GUESS WHAT, LESS PEOPLE WILL BE GETTING KNOCKED UP JUST SO THEY GET PUT INTO THE SYSTEM.

                            Do you know what "mamas little money maker means? thats when people have their daughters get pregnant, they turn around and become foster parents (which pays very well ) and tada, the whole family benefits.

                            Then you have the dis-abilty cheats, sucking the life out of SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICAID AND MEDICARE.

                            You get rid of entitlements and 4 things will happen..

                            1. People will pay more attention to birth control

                            2. more people will find that job,

                            3. they won't vote for <snip>s who feel they can take and take and take.

                            4. with more people working and a more responsible government, guess what, no more financial problems. we all benefit.

                             

                            This post has been automatically changed by the Lottery Post computer system to remove inappropriate content and/or spam.

                            I Agree!

                             

                            We need to add a few things to the above. Regulation.  Some say we don't need them but

                            yet, they/we all depend on them every day.  A few relulations in the banking industry could

                            have prevented the housing buble from ever starting.  For those who oppose regulations I

                            would like to say, maybe we should not have any laws at all.  Make murder legal, corporate

                            takeovers should be handled with guns and bombs.  Knock off your competitors with a hit,

                            that sort of thing.  The banking industry has the cake and get to eat it too.  They got the

                            regulations removed which allowed them to take unfair advantage while leaving the ones that

                            protect there butts in place.  To me it was like watching a illegal robbery in process and who

                            was protecting us, Hmmm, no one.  Those who were suppose to be watching over us were

                            in it up to there knees with the bad guys.   Greed is destroying this country and making slaves

                            of us all.   30% is like asking someone to work 4 months out of the year just to pay taxes.

                            I am tired of paying for someone elses mistakes.  All prison systems should include forced

                            labor so that the perpertrators have to pay there depts in full, including room and board.

                            Enforce our borders, expel the illegals, and stop mingling in other countries affairs.   Bring back

                            our manufacturing base.  Stop or greatly reduce imports from China and kill the illegal drug trade.

                            Do these things and the rest will take care of it's self

                             

                             

                            PS. one more thing, it the parents arn't legal the child's not either.

                            RL

                            Working on my Ph.D.  "University of hard Knocks"

                            I will consider the opinion that my winnings are a product of chance if you are willing to consider

                            they are not.  Most great discoveries come while searching for something else

                            US Flag


                              United States
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                              May 25, 2011
                              6323 Posts
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                              Posted: February 14, 2012, 10:26 am - IP Logged

                              Make the rich pay their fair share comes from the current government using class warfare.

                              Having a billionaire pay more does nothing for me.

                              We pay to much tax as a country in whole, enough is enough, government needs to curb is spending, stop the pork and the earmarks.

                              Get rid of entitlements period, welfare..plain and simple ,YOU DON'T GET NONE !!!!!!

                              The only people I hear screaming " make the rich pay more," are scuzzy polititions who want to get re-elected and people collecting entitlments.

                              You get rid of WIC AND WELFARE, SECTION 8, GUESS WHAT, LESS PEOPLE WILL BE GETTING KNOCKED UP JUST SO THEY GET PUT INTO THE SYSTEM.

                              Do you know what "mamas little money maker means? thats when people have their daughters get pregnant, they turn around and become foster parents (which pays very well ) and tada, the whole family benefits.

                              Then you have the dis-abilty cheats, sucking the life out of SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICAID AND MEDICARE.

                              You get rid of entitlements and 4 things will happen..

                              1. People will pay more attention to birth control

                              2. more people will find that job,

                              3. they won't vote for <snip>s who feel they can take and take and take.

                              4. with more people working and a more responsible government, guess what, no more financial problems. we all benefit.

                               

                              This post has been automatically changed by the Lottery Post computer system to remove inappropriate content and/or spam.

                              Alright sully!!!

                               

                              Go get em", you should run for office, I'm sure most LP members would vote for you immediately!   BananaHyperDance

                               

                              Hail to sully!!!   Patriot