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Frustration re: Osama bin laden


This is just a follow-up to my comments in Jay's blog.  I thank Todd for making these discourses possible and it is truly a chance for each of us to voice feelings about things that may be more important to us than the lottery and contributes to the greatness of this country.  Good debate leads to a successful democracy.

I have been enjoying the various opinions expressed by other members regarding the elections and our current political landscape. 

I consider myself a moderate independent voter and I vote on ideological basis..  If I feel the current government is leaning too far to the left or right I vote against the incumbent party.

In all of my years of voting (since 1968) I have never seen such a tilt in the ideology of a governing party and am frightened about the direction this current ideology is taking us. 

Religion and 'moral values' have come into the mainstream of governmental policy.  This is a scary scenario.  Why is it scary?  Because the Islamic Fundamentalists who are bent on ruining the peace of this world have included these same 'moral values' (albeit their moral values) into their government and dealings with those who think differently.  Neither of these has a place in a secular government that insists on separation of church and state.  And the separation of church and state is an iron-clad fact proposed by our founding fathers which is unrefutable.  If you think it is refutable, then I would suggest you read the history of why people came and colonized this country.  The colonizers were not allowed to practice their religion freely in their home countries because their governments insisted that the government's religion was the only religion allowed in their country.  Our founding fathers had the foresight to separate religion and government.  This is not a debateable issue, it's a factual point of history.  I will not debate this with anyone because one who would debate it either does not know how or why our country was founded or are so obstinate as to not believe truth.  No argument will convince these people and I won't waste my time discussing it.

Moral values is a vague expression saying "my morals are right and yours are not".  People who profess to embrace moral values are the first ones to condone war and capital punishment which kills living, walking, breathing human beings and yet they are appalled that a scientist would like UNCONCEIVED embryos taken from a placenta in order to save more walking, living human beings.  Where is the logic in this?  There is no logic. 

There also is no logic in wanting to change our constitution to BAN gay marriages...reminds me of the amendment to ban alcohol, there is no place in the constitution for these personal 'moral' issues.  Read the Bill of Rights.  Again I will not debate this point because anyone who can read English and has an IQ over 50 can understand the Bill of Rights.  If not I suggest you read it again slowly.  In my 8th grade class we had to memorize this and understand it and take a test on it before we could graduate 8th grade.  If you still don't understand it then you shouldn't have the right to vote for the leaders of our country.

If you are a follower of Jesus Christ and the Bible, the review of the book would have read simply like this, one sentence...."Treat others as you would have them treat you".  If each and every one of the 6 billion-plus people on this planet would embrace this single concept as professed by all major religions, their holy books and history, then we would not be back in the Crusades as we are now, Muslims vs. Christians.  If you are not living this in your daily life than you have no such thing as a moral value.  Any person supporting outright murder of walking, breathing human beings has no right professing 'moral values' or complaining that an unconceived embryo being used for research is less moral than murder of a walking breathing human being who has parents, siblings, children who will mourn their death.  He is a hypocrite of the worst kind. 

It's time to keep our faith in our back pockets and practice it according to our beliefs, on our time and in our own way.  Those who would disagree should read the Bible pertaining to the hypocrites who pray the loudest....it doesn't guarantee them a ring side seat in heaven.

The blacksmith who forges the sword to kill is just as guilty of transgression as the man weilding the sword to kill.

The "compassionate" normer governor of TX and the current governor of FL ......these two states lead the nation in capital executions and not just by a little bit, but by a huge margin.  The lives of people are not as important as an unfertilized embryo.  It's OK to lynch a man but heaven forbid if you make use of a placenta that will be discarded by the hospital in a uncermonious way.  Many of the executions in TX have since been held up to question because of proven shoddy forensic evidence provided by that state's labs.  How many innocent people have been murdered by the states because of blind prosecutorial zealotry  and yet those same states are the most indignant at the idea of scientists using UNCONCEIVED embryos from a placenta for stem cell research.  Is this an example of "moral values"?  Is killing mothers and children in Fallujah morally right? 

The hypocrisy will get you folks.  I'm not religious at all but I believe firmly in Karma and what goes around comes around whether you are the blacksmith or the warrior.

Meanwhile get off your high horses because you are behaving no better than the scarf-faced bedouins shooting mortars at our sons and daughters and unblinkingly flying jumbo jets into our office buildings.  Either you value life or you don't.  You cannot have it both ways.

I've said my piece.

Entry #5


WIN  DComment by WIN  D - November 7, 2004, 1:54 pm
I understand your point.....but people will never take their values out of their votes. The other side's trick will be to get you to lay down your values first. Once they are the majority then they will do the same thing for you. Riiiiii....ght
WIN  DComment by WIN  D - November 7, 2004, 2:36 pm
It was interesting reading about "your" Particular religion however.... and your "peculiar" values. I for one will be on guard for members of your cult. Those of you who would try to impose these weird non-values and enforce them on our country. Rest assured ...we will guard against your kind of wild religious ideas and values. We must keep this sort of thinking separate and out of our good government! Get it?
WIN  DComment by WIN  D - November 7, 2004, 2:57 pm
Interesting ...the last sentence of your opening paragraph says, "Good debate leads to successful Democracy."
Then...in your paragraph about the separation of Church and State you say,"I will not debate this with ANYONE!!....blah blah..." LOL
You go on to say...." and I won't waste my time discussing it"
Wow.... flip-flop-ology! LOL
Now how are we going to have a shot at that Good Democracy you were talking about?
Rick GComment by Rick G - November 7, 2004, 3:16 pm
I agree Win D, and people SHOULD consider their own values when voting. We all do it and it is a good thing. My only point is that one's values should be consistent across the whole spectrum of their lives. My problem is that the current government opposes abortion and stem cell research, but to kill thousands of innocent women and children Iraqis is OK. I don't understand the logic of these conflicting moral values. How is one different from the other? Either you cherish the gift of life or you don't. There is no middle ground otherwise it is an oxymoron.

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