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Joe W. - Welfare for the chosen few?


Last Edited: November 8, 2008, 3:55 pm

As you already know, someone who claimed he was a plumber planning to purchase a business approached Obama while he was campaigning.  Since that's old news, I'll only review this briefly.  (a) he was not a plumber or even a licensed contractor (b) the most he ever earned was $40K and he does not have the savings or credit to purchase a business (c) there is a lien on his home for non-payment of personal income tax  (d) the business was not for sale  (e) his boss makes about $100K a year which means that the $280K "Joe" was projecting would be more than 2-1/2 times what the current business owner makes.  (f) both Joe and his employer would benefit with Obama's tax plan much more than McCain's.  This is not liberal rhetoric, but facts stated by economists after analyzing both tax plans. 

Just a side note:  I always wondered how this "plumber" could be working the 12 hour days he talked about while appearing on TV and traveling around the country.  Who is paying his mortgage?  By the way, although citizens from around the country have sent this man lots of money, according to news sources, the lien is still unresolved.  Joe just doesn't sound like someone I'd want representing me as the average, hard-working middleclass citizen.  But, as I already wrote, that's old news.

Oh yeah.  Then there's a 2007 civil filing that shows a record for a $1,200 bill owed to a creditor, St. Charles Mercy Hospital.  So Joe doesn't even believe in paying for medical expenses, yet he speaks negatively about Universal Healthcare.  I guess what he really means is that we should just not pay our bills!

Oops!  Sorry.  That's also old news.  So what's new?  On Fox (not exactly the left, liberal media) Joe was recently questioned about his family history that shows he's been on Welfare & Food Stamps.  In fact, his family lived on Welfare for some time. 

Joe said that "he paid into it" which shows he doesn't understand how it works.  Welfare is not unemployment, it is not Medicare or social security.   Welfare is government assistance paid to needy families.

Now, if anyone on LP is on Welfare or gets Food Stamps, please do not think for a moment I am judging you.  We all need to put food on the table so our children aren't malnourished.

However, what this does prove is that, not only is Joe a hypocrite, but I sense some racism here (and some very poor vetting by the Republicans!)  Anyone who knows me understands that I absolutely hate it when a White person (like yours truly) is called a racist just because he or she has different viewpoints.  I've gotten into many debates about Affirmative Action, but that doesn't mean I'm a bigot. 

In Joe's case, he seems to feel that it's acceptable for him to receive Welfare but, as he put, there's "too much abuse" by other people.  I would like someone here to tell me who these other people are?  The bigotry is so blatant he might as well come right out and say it. 

Entry #169


JAP69Comment by JAP69 - November 8, 2008, 4:34 pm

Have you ever thought about why it is necessary for people that work sometimes need assistance.
I will tell you how I have it figured.
A lot of employers know that federal assistance is available to people at different income levels. Well these employers could possibly be paying the hired help more but why do they need to when they can offer a job and pay what they can get employees to work for. Now these employees can not meet cost of living on that wage. Sooooo the employee files to receive benefits that they are eligible for.
So what all that boils down to is that your tax dollars are supplementing that employers payroll.
Now employers are other people.
jarasanComment by jarasan - November 8, 2008, 4:40 pm
When you get food stamps, welfare, or unemployment, do you have to pay it back?
justxploringComment by justxploring - November 8, 2008, 5:15 pm
I guess there is no point in posting, since people seem to ignore the topic. When did I ever say that people who work don't need assistance?

I was talking about hypocrisy. I've never taken welfare or food stamps, but I have received unemployment compensation (entirely different.) In fact, based on my income this year, I do qualify, but I can never get assistance as long as I have savings. But that's a whole different subject.

Still, I wasn't even commenting on that matter. The first 2 comments here don't even touch on the subject of my post. Last time I blogged about the violence & unrest following the election Tues and people posted about Obama's policies and whom he is appointing to office. This time my post clearly discusses how a person calls taxing the wealthy an extra 3% is "socialism" when he's taken government assistance. To me, a graduated tax is not socialism. However, what else would you call welfare? Read my blog again.

Jarasan, unemployment has nothing to do with your income level and is not based on need. It's is tax paid by you and your employer in the case of a layoff to keep you afloat until you find a job elsewhere. I do not understand your question. Still, you are changing the subject.
justxploringComment by justxploring - November 8, 2008, 5:22 pm
I made a lot of typos in my last comment. Sorry, I was just frustrated. So, please, no personal attacks! :-)

Let me make this clear. A man goes to the hospital and doesn't pay his bill. He earns money and cheats on his income tax.   He's received welfare twice. Then he complains about a system that would give a tax break to the middle class.
jarasanComment by jarasan - November 8, 2008, 7:08 pm
Hey JX thanks for dumbing it down for us! Since your post has to do with food stamps, welfare and complicated civil stuff, I would like to know, still, do you have to pay that stuff back?

Also is there a guarantee of healthcare in the Constitution Of the United States for everybody USAmericans or not USAmericans in this USAmerica?

If somebody smokes crack, shoots heroin, eats deep fried foods, and drinks too much Robert Mondavi 1985 Cabernet should the USAmerican govt. guarantee their healthcare?
JAP69Comment by JAP69 - November 8, 2008, 7:30 pm
"I would like someone here to tell me who these other people are?"
Other people are who the listener or reader has in their mind who they are.
I gave an example who I felt other people are.
I was talking about the employer taking advantage of the system.

NBey6Comment by NBey6 - November 8, 2008, 7:42 pm
I've heard so many patriots say, "If you don't like American, you can leave!"
Hey, afterall, it is what it is.

time*treatComment by time*treat - November 8, 2008, 8:24 pm
There is some hypocracy in his actions, but calling it racism is a bit of a stretch. Sometimes "other people" simply means other people. To project *your* suspicion of what *he* means by "other people" is a reflection of how *you* are defining it.
time*treatComment by time*treat - November 8, 2008, 8:54 pm
Grr, *hypocrisy*; the internetz has killed my 5p3ll1ng :-)
jarasanComment by jarasan - November 8, 2008, 9:21 pm
The fact he WAS just asking a question and now HAS his financial failures a part of the public record is disturbing. He IS now being labeled, ridiculed, and judged by the illegal disclosure of his PRIVATE records. It is a modern day stoning in America for political pay back in a campaign.

The financial proctologists that gave Joe his exam fail to tell the positive aspects of his financial picture and/or anything positive about the man. We know more about his financial failings and history than we do about Obama, as Charlie Rose and Tom Brokaw were musing right before the election about Obama, "we really don't know who he is.".

What I see in Joe the plumber is a veteran who is trying to make ends meet in Ohio, and raising his son, and I don't blame him for making some serious money off his moment of fame.

Obama made several million during the Bush economy why can't the homies get any off the Obama economy? Heck they are already selling Obama collectible money on the FOX news channel. Check this out, for $9.99 you get a painted Obama $1 coin, and for $5.99 you get a $.50 cent piece from the Franklin Mint, they have serial numbers too! What a deal.
TenajComment by Tenaj - November 8, 2008, 9:22 pm
jarasan, you do have to pay welfare and food stamps back in some states. I think NY is one of them. But you don't have to pay unemployment back because you paid into that yourself. That's your money and it's based on how much you made during a certain period of time.
jarasanComment by jarasan - November 8, 2008, 9:37 pm
Thanks T: Well if that's the case, does anybody think the USAmerican govt. will get back the $6 trillion dollars it has paid out since the new deal? If we could somehow get that paid back, we would have $4 trillion surplus and we wouldn't need tax increases.
justxploringComment by justxploring - November 9, 2008, 1:12 am
Jarasan wrote: "The fact he WAS just asking a question and now HAS his financial failures a part of the public record is disturbing. He IS now being labeled, ridiculed, and judged by the illegal disclosure of his PRIVATE records. It is a modern day stoning in America for political pay back in a campaign."

In a way I agree, except the blame should be placed on John McCain for using the example of "Joe the Plumber" 29 times in one debate. Then I heard about "Joe" at every rally.   McCain took 3 words (spread the wealth) out of a long answer (watch the entire video) where Obama explained to Joe that he wouldn't have struggled so long to reach his goal had he been given a break. (apparently since he got welfare, he did get a break..more than once) Obama not only spent a lot of time talking to this individual, which was impressive for a presidential candidate, but patiently told him he would need to review his financials in order to assess if he would be taxed at a higher rate.

The words "spread the wealth around" were taken out of context. When Palin was condemned for saying the war is "a task from God" I defended her, since it was also taken out of context. I even yelled bulls*** at the TV when Gibson said "exact words." She was praying in a church, asking God for guidance.   I don't agree with her, but fair is fair. I am only saying that you can take a few words out of any discussion, conversation or even a prayer, and change the meaning.

Thanks to Tenaj for answering your question, Jarasan, but it still has nothing to do with my original topic, which is that everyone, including Joe, kept saying Obama would turn this country into a welfare state and used the discussion with him as an example. Joe continued to appear on national television and criticized Obama's tax plan when, in fact, it would clearly have helped him.
justxploringComment by justxploring - November 9, 2008, 1:16 am
Just one more thing since we've strayed off the subject anyway.

Let's say I work at the same job as Bob, but Bob has 3 kids, he pays less tax. If Bob makes less money, he also might receive an Earned Income Credit that I'm not eligible for and possibly some assistance (like food stamps) if he meets certain requirements. Again, I am not judging those who get these tax credits or additional assistance, but how is this NOT some form of Marxism? It's "to each according to his needs" isn't it? If not, why can't I get the same tax breaks? Why, if you have money in the bank, can't you get Medicaid or Food Stamps? It's because you don't have the NEED according to the system and you have the ABILITY to pay. Socialism in this country is nothing new. Social Security & Medicare are forms of Socialism. So why has this suddenly become a dirty word?

Time*Treat, regarding the bigotry I mentioned, maybe he wasn't talking about race, but to me it is some form of prejudice to think you deserve something that others don't because "they're" the abusers.   I totally agree that many people abuse the system, but taking money and then blaming the very system that fed you is like justifying your abortion because your situation was different from the woman down the block whom you called a murderer.   

It's funny that you keep saying we don't know who the real Barack Obama is, when he's been working in public office for so many years, has been in numerous debates, written books about his life and has had more people digging into his life than any candidate in history. Still, he won the election. I guess people woke up and realized that character assassinations don't work when the person you are trying to discredit has a lot of character.
DrannyMa7Comment by DrannyMa7 - November 9, 2008, 9:05 am
What an example we are setting for our children, if you work the system whether you're rich or poor, this society will reward you.
jarasanComment by jarasan - November 9, 2008, 9:21 am
Yes, Obama did debates, and he did have his past examined and that is the problem, no one cares or understands his nefarious rise to stardom. The media is corrupt they picked a president, it is clear two to one stories etc. favoring Obama, and everybody knows it! A sweet face and charisma make not a president, that is what most voted for, we've seen the people on the street interviews, they had no idea of his positions that we're aware of, like abortion for eg..

During his speeches and debates, he said nary a thing of his plans or agenda, he (his speech writers) is/are masters of saying nothing and or leaving one wondering what he just said. No teleprompter, no hope or change and who knows if yes we can.

We all hope, change is inevitable, and of course yes we can. He ran a good campaign in colusion with the fawning/leftist media and has yet to prove any experience other than running for the next office. Well, he has nothing to run for now and in a few weeks he will be on the job and we will see how a sweet face and charisma run the USAmerica.

As far as socialism goes, it doesn't work, never has never will, $6 trillion dollars down the tubes and the precentages are still the same. There is no sense in exapanding a failed experiment. We will wait and see. As VP-elect Joe Biden said, "he will be tested in the first 6 months of his administration." We will see the true Obama trial by fire in the highest office in the land.
TenajComment by Tenaj - November 9, 2008, 11:53 am
jarasan, I know the real issue you and a lot Obama haters have = FEAR of not being in control anymore. Guns sells have tripled since Obama was elected under the guise of gun control.   We won't kill you while you sleep and flood the unemployment and welfare offices and rise up as militants. It's scary being on the other side isn't it. I'm laughing at you.
time*treatComment by time*treat - November 9, 2008, 12:42 pm
@jxp: I'm not aware of having said "we don't know who he is". Maybe you've mixed me up with someone else? ;-). I made my support based on the candidates voting records and bill proposals. People bashing McCain didn't convince me to support Obama. People bashing Obama didn't cause me to support McCain.
justxploringComment by justxploring - November 9, 2008, 1:15 pm
Time*treat - Yes, I was directing that paragraph at Jarasan. Sorry. I knew you'd notice that, but after writing 2 long comments, I didn't feel like going back and writing another one saying "oops, that was meant for Jarasan." Blog comments get very long when you're quoting people.

I agree with you when you say "people bashing John McCain didn't convince me..."   I never vote for someone based on the negative comments of others. I strongly defend any candidate when they are wrongly misquoted, just as I did McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden.
jarasanComment by jarasan - November 9, 2008, 5:16 pm
@Tenaj: Obama could have been satan and you would have still voted for him, that is the problem with blind belligerent fanaticism.

Other handicaps you have are your preconceptions and anger you have towards me and others who simply want answers. You perceive legitimate questions as “bashing”.

I am not afraid of Obama, your hand, or anybody else, that is ridiculous, to make that statement.

As far as control goes, I don’t control anyone, never have, never will, and I don’t aspire to that.

But I am going to try and enlighten you once again, the democratic party has been controlling millions of people for nearly sixty years promise after promise: “Oh yeah we’ll get that for you……….. just vote for us again, those repubs they are bad.” Have the Dems delivered? No. And they fooled you again.

The only thing holding anyone back is themselves, the only one, one should control, is themselves, there is nothing in this USAmerican country that anyone can’t do, just ask Obama.

Remember this video.


You need to watch all the way thru. Copy/paste to the address bar Press enter.
TenajComment by Tenaj - November 9, 2008, 5:40 pm
I repeat:

I know the real issue - a lot Obama haters are consumed with FEAR of not being in control anymore. Guns sells have tripled since Obama was elected under the guise of gun control.   

We won't kill you while you sleep and flood the unemployment and welfare offices and rise up as militants. It's scary being on the other side isn't it. I'm laughing at you.
justxploringComment by justxploring - November 9, 2008, 6:39 pm
Jarasan wrote to Tenaj - "Obama could have been satan and you would have still voted for him, that is the problem with blind belligerent fanaticism."

Jarasan, after Hillary lost the nomination, I decided to support McCain. Unfortunately, he selected the wrong running mate. Still, I kept an open mind and, since Lee & Collier counties are very Republican, attended functions with friends who supported the Republican ticket. I even went to a rally. What I heard frightened me. Then I listened to some very high profile Republicans like Powell, Fried, McClellan (and many more) along with newspapers that hadn't endorsed a Democrat in over 100 years. I realized that by voting Republican, I was not voting my conscience. I thought back to better days when we lived in a time of progress and prosperity. Then I voted for Barack Obama. If that's "blind, belligerent fanaticism" than I proudly join some of the greatest political minds, some of the most accomplished business people and government officials, many who served under Reagan, Nixon, Ford, Bush 41 & 43 and even Eisenhower.

As Richard S. Seline, Finance Director, Republican Party of Texas said:

"Why do I support Obama as a Republican? His vision and focus is what I want for my child and my country."

As Scott McClellan, Former Press Secretary to President George W. Bush so eloquently put it:

"From the beginning I have said I am going to support the candidate that has the best chance for changing the way Washington works and getting things done and I will be voting for Barack Obama and clapping."

I agree with Tenaj. It's not just you, but fear was the message of the McCain campaign, not hope.   I'm not laughing at you, just concerned that you are so deaf you cannot hear the music.

justxploringComment by justxploring - November 9, 2008, 6:44 pm
Oops - typo. meant "then I proudly" (not than) who cares, right? Time*treat, you don't have to apologize for spelling errors. Even phonetically spelled comments are accepted here as long as you get your point across. :-)   
I wonder if I should have spelled phonetically phonetically.
jarasanComment by jarasan - November 9, 2008, 7:32 pm
@JX @tenaj means at Tenaj.

@Tenaj: Your belligerence shines brightly. No new thoughts?

And I am glad you are laughing, how long has it been, eight years? You probably should save some of that laughter, you are going to need it.
jarasanComment by jarasan - November 9, 2008, 7:45 pm
@JX: We'll hear music soon enough.
ICNUMBERSComment by ICNUMBERS - November 9, 2008, 8:59 pm
I went to my local gov. website to try to help you all out with some of the questions that you were asking about welfare. It wasn't very informational but what I do know is in the state of MI the father has to pay back any assistance that the mother has gotten if paternity and child support has been established. Which I think is still unfair in many ways because why is the father just being penaltilized. Welfare is a very technical subject and is often brought across as a handout but most states just don't implement programs to make people be more self suffecient. I think it has alot to do with keeping people under a certain social norms to go from one system to another but who am I to say. Whatever happened to helping those who help themselves. Somedays it just seems as if it doesn't pay to do things the right way because people like Joe the Plumber will help the gov. kick you before you even get down.
TenajComment by Tenaj - November 9, 2008, 9:49 pm
no jarasan, no new thoughts for you but in case you didn't understand - let me say it again so that you can began to heal.

I repeat:

I know the real issue - a lot Obama haters are consumed with FEAR of not being in control anymore. Guns sells have tripled since Obama was elected under the guise of gun control.   

We won't kill you while you sleep and flood the unemployment and welfare offices and rise up as militants. It's scary being on the other side isn't it. I'm still laughing at you.

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