Yeah, Thomas Jefferson was about as religious as you! BTW, Muslims seem to be more respectful of Jesus than Christians are of Muhammad. It's a moot point though as I think the planet would be better off if the followers of both were to adopt Humanism instead. But progress in that direction is slow, very slow. Unfortunately, your approach in the recent atheist thread probably didn't help in that regard. I think a better way is to lead people to mindfulness by introducing them to the kinds of essays available at the American Humanist website and/or to the books of people like Deepak Chopra. JMHO

I agree Jimmy, and i also do enjoy Deepak's work.

Below is something folks may want to know concerning the founding fathers, and the misconceptions about their beliefs...

One of the many attacks on our country from the Religious Right is the claim that our country is a Christian Nation...not just that the majority of people are Christians, but that the country itself was founded by Christians, for Christians. However, a little research into American history will show that this statement is a lie. Those people who spread this lie are known as Christian Revisionists. They are attempting to rewrite history, in much the same way as holocaust deniers are. The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true. They were Freethinkers who relied on their reason, not their faith.
If the U.S. was founded on the Christian religion, the Constitution would clearly say so--but it does not. Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms. When the Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3)   This provision was radical in its day-- giving equal citizenship to believers and non-believers alike. They wanted to ensure that no religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had.

The Declaration of Independence gives us important insight into the opinions of the Founding Fathers. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the power of the government is derived from the governed. Up until that time, it was claimed that kings ruled nations by the authority of God. The Declaration was a radical departure from the idea that the power to rule over other people comes from god. It was a letter from the Colonies to the English King, stating their intentions to seperate themselves. The Declaration is not a governing document. It mentions "Nature's God" and "Divine Providence"-- but as you will soon see, that's the language of Deism, not Christianity. The 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion" (see the image on the right). This was not an idle statement meant to satisfy muslims-- they believed it and meant it. This treaty was written under the presidency of George Washington and signed under the presidency of John Adams.

None of the Founding Fathers were atheists. Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible. They did not deny that there was a person called Jesus, and praised him for his benevolent teachings, but they flatly denied his divinity. Some people speculate that if Charles Darwin had lived a century earlier, the Founding Fathers would have had a basis for accepting naturalistic origins of life, and they would have been atheists. We'll never know; but by reading their own writings, it's clear that most of them were opposed to the bible, and the teachings of Christianity in particular.

Yes, there were Christian men among the Founders. Just as Congress removed Thomas Jefferson's words that condemned the practice of slavery in the colonies, they also altered his wording regarding equal rights. His original wording is here in blue italics: "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable." Congress changed that phrase, increasing its religious overtones: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights." But we are not governed by the Declaration of Independence-- it is a historical document, not a constitutional one.

If the Christian Right Extremists wish to return this country to its beginnings, so be it... because it was a climate of Freethought. The Founders were students of the European Enlightenment. Half a century after the establishment of the United States, clergymen complained that no president up to that date had been a Christian. In a sermon that was reported in newspapers, Episcopal minister Bird Wilson of Albany, New York, protested in October 1831: "Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism." The attitude of the age was one of enlightened reason, tolerance, and free thought. The Founding Fathers would turn in their graves if the Christian Extremists had their way with this country.

Consider this: IF indeed the members of the First Continental Congress were all bible-believing Christians, would there ever have been a revolution at all?

"For rebellion as is the sin of witchcraft." 1 Samuel, 15:23

This passage refers to humans rebelling against god, a statement that establishes the precedence of unconditional subservience which is further illustrated, very explicitly, by the following two passages:

1 Peter 2:13: "For the Lord's sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right."

Paul wrote in Romans 13:1: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

Would our Founding Fathers have initiated a rebellion if they thought it was a sin equal to witchcraft (a crime punishable by death)?   The bible gives clear instructions to Christians on how to behave when ruled under a monarchy, as the Founders clearly were. The Founders obviously did not heed what was written in the bible. If they were in fact good Christians, there would never have been an American Revolution. Compare the above passages with what is written in the Declaration of Independence:

"When a long train of abuses and usurpations... evinces a design to reduce (the people) under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..."

Who were the Founding Fathers? American historian Richard B. Morris, in his 1973 book Seven Who Shaped Our Destiny: The Founding Fathers as Revolutionaries, identified the following seven figures as the "key" Founding Fathers: John Adams
Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
John Jay
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
George Washington

My opinion is that religion is the major cause of most conflicts in the world in the past and in the present and I guess it will be in the future. People have the right to worship how they wish as long as it is their choice and not force on them. Religion is just another way to control the masses. We are so brain washed most people don't even know it so they will fight and argue about something they don't know for sure whether this or that is true. This is my thinking. If so and so religion makes you a better person as a whole then by all means practice it until you die. No harm no Foul. I use to follow a religion and I am so happy I left it long, long ago. I feel free. That has worked for me. It's not to say I don't believe in a 'higher power'. It's not to say I don't believe that we have a creator and a purpose. Religion is simply man made to as I said control the masses. If you really look into the history behind the Bible and other 'holy book', you will be so disappointed to learn the truth. I'm glad Todd locked the thread. It was getting out of hand. Anyway, I enjoy MOST of your lottery postings and keep on keeping on. Just my 2 cents.

I couldn't have said it any better Jackpotismine. I guess the part that bothers me the most out of this whole thing how someone can believe so hard in one religion as the true one when there are so many others claiming to be the true one. They're so confident they are right, and every other religion is wrong, especially when there is nothing they can ground their decision on. They may try to convince others they have a monopoly on truth, but their attempt in doing so makes them even harder to take seriously.

I also agree with you that being spiritual is a good thing. We're all made of energy, so there is a good chance that a part of us may pass on to another plane of existence. But for one person or a group to claim they know the exact details of the next existence is ludicrous and delusional. No one knows anything for sure whatsoever. Last time I heard, no one came back from the dead and solved the puzzle.

Right. I also believe that nothing dies. It just changes form. That's why to say we are all just energy seem about right to me. If people only knew that the Bible is not even what it is crack out to be. First of all the book is not even the original and complete. http://www.bibleufo.com/anomlostbooks.htm
Have you read 'Chariots of the gods‘？Great book! Also about the Sumerians and all that jazz. Highly interesting. I was reading online and the question was asked, if God exists, why doesn't he(it) regrow limbs? Of all the 'so called' miracles, we never hear about regrowth of limbs. Just Google: Why doesn't God grow limbs? Very interesting read. I like to listen to Esther Hicks & Abraham. There insight is very interesting and so on point. Law of Attraction. Anyway， In the end when you and I pass on, then and only then will we surely know. In the mean time, I'll just keep on truckin'.

Yup, you're right on track buddy. Not just because you're in agreement, but all the peripheral things you write are right on the money as far as common sense goes.

I've read some on the limbs growing. It's funny how healing stops right there...lol

The Bible was plagiarised, and I've written about this many times. it was derived from Pagan religions amongst other beliefs. I've even posted worthy videos that most who are brainwashed will never wacth because they don't want to hear the truth. They put their hands over their ears. What a shame huh?

What amazes me is that even after the holy rollers on TV like Jim Baker and Swaggert got busted, gullible people still send money to fund their BS again!!!!....WHAT?

It's like If I found out a system player never had the intention of writing a system for pick-3 and was busted on copyright infringment or whatever, and then I send him ANOTHER $29.95 for another system after the fact...That's why I call religious people delusional. No matter what, at the end of the day, all they want is comfort regardless of the cost or how rediculous it makes them look.

You two have covered the bases pretty well, so about all I can add is a point of logic. One of the important similarities between Islam and Christianity is the tendency of adherents to anthropomorphize their god, I.E., to think of and describe their god using terminology normally used to describe human characteristics. God is a "He." God is "good." God is "benevolent." God is "just." God "loves" humans. (etc.) I've had Christians tell me that the reason god created things was because "He" was "lonely." To me, it's logically inconsistent that people are willing to accept as the force behind the universe an entity that is good, benevolent, just, and loving, but at the same time has been lonely, implying weakness, and demands worship, implying vanity.

A way to resolve this contradiction is to simply abandon the perception of "God" as a powerful human-like entity, and spend time searching for more plausible ways to explain existence.

Very good point Jimmy. Another example is when God supposedly says that after the flood, he will no longer wipe out life on Earth, as If he realized he made a mistake. I thought God was omnipotent, and makes no mistakes.

As you state, he does seem to have human qualities. I've heard the lonely factor too. Also, he's the only one allowed to be jealous. Another human trait that God should be outside the realm of.

There are so many inconsistencies that are replete throughout the explanations and interpretations of what many think what God is supposed to be, it makes my head spin. So many folks and groups claim to know the intentions of an entity that is debatable at best.

I believe that there is a universal intelligence that is self containing, meaning, a set of laws that govern the universe based on attributes that are both entropic and fruitful. One must obey these laws to achieve well being and balance in the eternal ether. A sort akin to a mass consciousness with the living and unanimated matter, both coexisting in understanding with each other. Non-living material have their influence as well, so in order to fully grasp what life is at the atomic and Quantum level is equally important.

Like I've written many times before and will write again and again, there is no black and white. There are too many gray areas for any side to be correct. This is also replet throughout nature. A good example is the weather. it's never the ideal temperature. It's either too cold or too warm. The only exception is in San Diego....lol....Other than that, it's a universe with extreme settings that can flucutate at any given moment. That should be a lesson when applied to every other aspect in life. It's a liquid existence. Anything is possible as long as the observer can imagine it so. Quantum Physics dictates it.

As one person wrote, I forget who...right behind your head is a quantum soup of possibilities full of electrons and protons. Once you turn your head and look behind you, the brain makes sense of them and paints a picture. (paraphrasing of course)

Very good points Jimmy & Joker. Actually if you read the Old testament about God, Whoa! What a mean mother...ker is he, isn't he. Alot of those commandments makes Hitler, Stalin, etc. look like Angels. Ha..ha. Anyway, it was interesting talking about this. Don't take life too seriously because it's all pluck up, if you know what I mean.

Yep,
You guys pretty much covered my thoughts on religion.
I just leave my thoughts & options open for something there after death.
I say a prayer now and then.

I think religion was first started to keep the masses of people in check,as there were no police,etc. at that time.

Exactly Scorpio. Fear,Fear,Fear. That the key. You don't do this, you're going to Hell. You do this, you're going to Heaven. Ha..ha. Keep the masses in fear and they will follow anything.

No need for religion or worship in this computer simulation we call reality.

First do no harm.
Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Contribute to the creation in a positive manner.

Everything else is superfluous.