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Tennessee Lottery: confusion not being cleared up

Tennessee LotteryTennessee Lottery: Tennessee Lottery: confusion not being cleared up
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Lottery CEO not making audit intentions clear

The Tennessee Lottery is investigating a handful of glitches since changing the system for pulling winning numbers to a computer, but then again, are they really?

That's a question that nobody outside the lottery seems to know the answer to for sure.

State Senator Bill Ketron, the co-chair of the Lottery Oversight Committee, is calling for a complete audit of lottery procedures.

"We want to go back and look at all the processes up till we got to this point," he said.

Senator Ketron said he is surprised an investigation on lottery machines won't include information on three recent glitches.

He said, "I thought we were handling it correctly in the beginning when we said, ‘okay, you are being proactive, you have called for an outside audit.'  I thought that was going to take care of everything."

KPMG is getting paid almost $90,000 to do the audit.

In a letter to the Lottery Commission they said, "We understand the vendor has corrected this issue and now the lottery wishes to engage KPMG to conduct an independent audit of the updated ADMs or automated draw machines."

That means KPMG will only look at the newer machines.

Ketron said he has spoken to Lottery President Rebecca Hargrove.

Ketron said, "She said they have an internal auditor who will be checking what the problem is and that they know what the problem was... Okay, if they know what the problem is then what's the problem?"

The answer is what Ketron and the Lottery Oversight Committee are hoping to get to the bottom of.

Lottery officials said they will work with KPMG and the Lottery Oversight Committee to pinpoint the problems.

"So I don't know if that means an additional fee that they are going to tack on to the existing contract to do what I thought we were getting to begin with, I don't know," said Ketron.

He said he is making sure the Lottery Oversight Committee is doing their due diligence to protect the people of Tennessee.

The Tennessee Lottery Oversight Committee will next meet on November 1.

WKRN

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21 comments. Last comment 9 years ago by psykomo.
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United States
Member #9519
December 10, 2004
492 Posts
Offline
Posted: October 4, 2007, 7:04 pm - IP Logged

Fire the CEO ! ! !

    RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
    mid-Ohio
    United States
    Member #9
    March 24, 2001
    19831 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: October 4, 2007, 7:15 pm - IP Logged

    I would have thought that the software and computers was completely checked and audited before they were installed as part of the normal job of the people at the lottery.  The fact that someone failed to enter the proper command that controlled how the computer picked numbers was identified as the problem and now it seem they going to spend even more money to confirm it. 

    Now I'm wondering how much was really expected to saved by switching to computers if people at the lottery was eliminating their work while expecting to keep their job.

     * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
       
                 Evil Looking       

      Avatar
      Kentucky
      United States
      Member #32652
      February 14, 2006
      7322 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: October 4, 2007, 9:49 pm - IP Logged

      "Ketron said, "She said they have an internal auditor who will be checking what the problem is and that they know what the problem was... Okay, if they know what the problem is then what's the problem?"

      The problem is simply; the Tennessee Lottery Commission lied to the players when they said the computer programs were tested and double numbers were drawn.

      I wonder if it will be the same internal auditor who checked the computers after the players complained that no doubles were drawn and assured them by email that after testing, doubles were indeed drawn?

        Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
        Indiana
        United States
        Member #48725
        January 7, 2007
        1954 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: October 4, 2007, 10:13 pm - IP Logged

        "Ketron said, "She said they have an internal auditor who will be checking what the problem is and that they know what the problem was... Okay, if they know what the problem is then what's the problem?"

        The problem is simply; the Tennessee Lottery Commission lied to the players when they said the computer programs were tested and double numbers were drawn.

        I wonder if it will be the same internal auditor who checked the computers after the players complained that no doubles were drawn and assured them by email that after testing, doubles were indeed drawn?

        Could you or someone else give me a link to where you found out where it specifically states that the lottery said there were doubles drawn during the time of the glitch?

        Gonna win.Big Smile

          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
          Chief Bottle Washer
          New Jersey
          United States
          Member #1
          May 31, 2000
          23275 Posts
          Online
          Posted: October 4, 2007, 10:15 pm - IP Logged

          Could you or someone else give me a link to where you found out where it specifically states that the lottery said there were doubles drawn during the time of the glitch?

          You can find the e-mail posted on Lottery Post.  Many people posted it.  Do some searches around the time of the first major articles in August.

           

          Check the State Lottery Report Card
          What grade did your lottery earn?

           

          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

            Guru101's avatar - rw6jhh
            Indiana
            United States
            Member #48725
            January 7, 2007
            1954 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: October 4, 2007, 10:53 pm - IP Logged

            I found this thread:

            http://www.lotterypost.com/news/161445

            There were 3 paragraphs I was most interested in.

            "It's just kind of odd it went so long without anybody noticing it and with people calling and sending e-mails about it, and they still said there was no problem," said Allen Lowe, a player who lives in Clarksville.

            Lowe said he began sending e-mail messages through the lottery Web site the weekend of Aug. 11 when the drawings produced no duplicated number. 

            He said the lottery replied with a message saying others had made similar inquiries but testing by security staff showed no problems, with double digits coming up in the random test draws.

            Now, the third paragraph is the one I'm looking at the most. It says that Lowe said that the lottery said. Now, when he says the lottery said there were duplicate numbers drawn, did the lottery themself specifically state in the email that "duplicate numbers were drawn", or perhaps did he see a response such as simply "there were no problems" and then interpret that as "there were duplicate numbers drawn" and then repeat that as so?

            Gonna win.Big Smile

              four4me's avatar - gate1
              MD
              United States
              Member #1701
              June 18, 2003
              8364 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: October 4, 2007, 11:07 pm - IP Logged

              Now I'm starting to get confused..... not really.

              Whatever the investigation is, it needs to go back to the day Rebecca Paul Hargrove made a decision to switch drawing types what processes she and the committee took. And include every detail from the day she and her committee made arrangement to put in place computerized drawings clear up to the present day.

              This report should include every email sent to the Tennessee lottery from the time the glitch was first discovered by the people, all news paper articles all the facts and figures and everything connected to the case involved.

              What has happened since the computer glitch was corrected is practically irrelevant. All this will show is that the PC has drawn numbers but it doesn't clear up any misconception's on the players part, doesn't prove that the computers cant be manipulated.

              Lottery officials are trying to side step any wrongdoing on their part.

                Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                Chief Bottle Washer
                New Jersey
                United States
                Member #1
                May 31, 2000
                23275 Posts
                Online
                Posted: October 5, 2007, 7:07 am - IP Logged

                I found this thread:

                http://www.lotterypost.com/news/161445

                There were 3 paragraphs I was most interested in.

                "It's just kind of odd it went so long without anybody noticing it and with people calling and sending e-mails about it, and they still said there was no problem," said Allen Lowe, a player who lives in Clarksville.

                Lowe said he began sending e-mail messages through the lottery Web site the weekend of Aug. 11 when the drawings produced no duplicated number. 

                He said the lottery replied with a message saying others had made similar inquiries but testing by security staff showed no problems, with double digits coming up in the random test draws.

                Now, the third paragraph is the one I'm looking at the most. It says that Lowe said that the lottery said. Now, when he says the lottery said there were duplicate numbers drawn, did the lottery themself specifically state in the email that "duplicate numbers were drawn", or perhaps did he see a response such as simply "there were no problems" and then interpret that as "there were duplicate numbers drawn" and then repeat that as so?

                No, the actual a-mail reply was posted by members.  Don't look for the news stories themselves.

                 

                Check the State Lottery Report Card
                What grade did your lottery earn?

                 

                Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                  Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                  Chief Bottle Washer
                  New Jersey
                  United States
                  Member #1
                  May 31, 2000
                  23275 Posts
                  Online
                  Posted: October 5, 2007, 7:11 am - IP Logged

                  Now I'm starting to get confused..... not really.

                  Whatever the investigation is, it needs to go back to the day Rebecca Paul Hargrove made a decision to switch drawing types what processes she and the committee took. And include every detail from the day she and her committee made arrangement to put in place computerized drawings clear up to the present day.

                  This report should include every email sent to the Tennessee lottery from the time the glitch was first discovered by the people, all news paper articles all the facts and figures and everything connected to the case involved.

                  What has happened since the computer glitch was corrected is practically irrelevant. All this will show is that the PC has drawn numbers but it doesn't clear up any misconception's on the players part, doesn't prove that the computers cant be manipulated.

                  Lottery officials are trying to side step any wrongdoing on their part.

                  I agree.  It should also include transparency into the financial comparisons showing exactly how many "dollars for education" were going to increased or decreased by going computerized.  After all, at least $90,000 "dollars for education" are being spent on an audit that would never have taken place if they didn't make the bonehead switch.

                   

                  Check the State Lottery Report Card
                  What grade did your lottery earn?

                   

                  Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                  Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                    KyMystikal's avatar - 1457224010054
                    Florence, Alabama
                    United States
                    Member #8658
                    November 13, 2004
                    1993 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: October 5, 2007, 10:37 am - IP Logged

                    I found this thread:

                    http://www.lotterypost.com/news/161445

                    There were 3 paragraphs I was most interested in.

                    "It's just kind of odd it went so long without anybody noticing it and with people calling and sending e-mails about it, and they still said there was no problem," said Allen Lowe, a player who lives in Clarksville.

                    Lowe said he began sending e-mail messages through the lottery Web site the weekend of Aug. 11 when the drawings produced no duplicated number. 

                    He said the lottery replied with a message saying others had made similar inquiries but testing by security staff showed no problems, with double digits coming up in the random test draws.

                    Now, the third paragraph is the one I'm looking at the most. It says that Lowe said that the lottery said. Now, when he says the lottery said there were duplicate numbers drawn, did the lottery themself specifically state in the email that "duplicate numbers were drawn", or perhaps did he see a response such as simply "there were no problems" and then interpret that as "there were duplicate numbers drawn" and then repeat that as so?

                    This is the email that was sent to me and at the bottom is what I had sent the TN lottery to get this reply.

                     

                    Sent: Wed 8/15/07 11:16 AM
                    To: KyMystikal

                    Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.

                    The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.

                    For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.

                    We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn.

                     

                    -----
                    This email is in response to the comment below:

                    I would like to know if there is a problem with the computer that draws the lottery numbers? Every since you(Tennessee Lottery) have switched the way the numbers are chosen there hasn't been a double digit come out in ANY draw. I know that the drawings are supposed to be random but it is highly unlikely that no double would fall in any draw in 18 days.

                    I love doubles and remember, it's just a game!!!!!!

                      takeitez's avatar - japheth
                      Carters Lake, Ga.
                      United States
                      Member #5313
                      June 29, 2004
                      1065 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: October 5, 2007, 11:56 am - IP Logged

                      The players in Tenn have missed a chance to show what they think about all this mess. They should have stopped playing P3 and P4.

                      But they did not.

                      Now the lotto knows they are hooked. They may even drop the payout or block certain numbers from being played. They could raise the cost of a ticket.

                       They know the people there will just keep buying tickets.

                      Wake up people!

                      ez

                                No Pity!Guitar  Drum ........ in the long run........

                        CARBOB's avatar - FL LOTTERY_LOGO.png
                        ORLANDO, FLORIDA
                        United States
                        Member #4924
                        June 3, 2004
                        5912 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: October 5, 2007, 12:02 pm - IP Logged

                        The players in Tenn have missed a chance to show what they think about all this mess. They should have stopped playing P3 and P4.

                        But they did not.

                        Now the lotto knows they are hooked. They may even drop the payout or block certain numbers from being played. They could raise the cost of a ticket.

                         They know the people there will just keep buying tickets.

                        Wake up people!

                        ez

                        EZ, you can't make it any clearer than that!!!!!

                          CARBOB's avatar - FL LOTTERY_LOGO.png
                          ORLANDO, FLORIDA
                          United States
                          Member #4924
                          June 3, 2004
                          5912 Posts
                          Offline
                          Posted: October 5, 2007, 12:12 pm - IP Logged

                          This is the email that was sent to me and at the bottom is what I had sent the TN lottery to get this reply.

                           

                          Sent: Wed 8/15/07 11:16 AM
                          To: KyMystikal

                          Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.

                          The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.

                          For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.

                          We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn.

                           

                          -----
                          This email is in response to the comment below:

                          I would like to know if there is a problem with the computer that draws the lottery numbers? Every since you(Tennessee Lottery) have switched the way the numbers are chosen there hasn't been a double digit come out in ANY draw. I know that the drawings are supposed to be random but it is highly unlikely that no double would fall in any draw in 18 days.

                          KyMystikal,

                            If you haven't done so already, send a copy of this email to every elected state offical. This proves they have been lying since the fiasco started.

                            Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                            Chief Bottle Washer
                            New Jersey
                            United States
                            Member #1
                            May 31, 2000
                            23275 Posts
                            Online
                            Posted: October 5, 2007, 12:47 pm - IP Logged

                            This is the email that was sent to me and at the bottom is what I had sent the TN lottery to get this reply.

                             

                            Sent: Wed 8/15/07 11:16 AM
                            To: KyMystikal

                            Thank you for playing the Tennessee Lottery and for your comments.

                            The security and integrity of our games is of utmost importance and this greatly impacted our decision to go to these type drawings. The Tennessee Lottery goes to extreme measures to protect the integrity of its games in order to maximize dollars for education in the state.

                            For any one drawing, each of the available combinations of numbers has the same likelihood of being selected. Additionally, numbers selected in any one drawing has no relationship to a future or past drawing, since each drawing is a unique, separate and distinct occurrence.

                            We have had some other inquiries about the lack of double digit winning numbers, so we had our security staff run several random test draws, and double digits were drawn.

                             

                            -----
                            This email is in response to the comment below:

                            I would like to know if there is a problem with the computer that draws the lottery numbers? Every since you(Tennessee Lottery) have switched the way the numbers are chosen there hasn't been a double digit come out in ANY draw. I know that the drawings are supposed to be random but it is highly unlikely that no double would fall in any draw in 18 days.

                            Thank you for finding and posting it.  I fixed up the formatting of your post so everyone can read it. 

                             

                            Check the State Lottery Report Card
                            What grade did your lottery earn?

                             

                            Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                            Help eliminate computerized drawings!