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ARKANSAS LOTTERY DRAWINGS TO BE COMPUTERIZED

Topic closed. 29 replies. Last post 7 years ago by Litebets27.

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Grovel's avatar - f800e6a39fbfea795d1dcbb09f2244
Little Rock, AR
United States
Member #68365
December 19, 2008
241 Posts
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Posted: August 2, 2009, 1:17 pm - IP Logged

Well, I guess I am just going to be playing powerball than.

    Think's avatar - lightbulb
    Marquette, MI
    United States
    Member #20541
    August 20, 2005
    705 Posts
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    Posted: August 2, 2009, 9:35 pm - IP Logged

    I Agree!

    California is already computerized, with the exception of SuperLotto Plus.

    California had one of the worst computerized drawing errors ever officially recorded, and sold tickets with no chance of winning for several months. 

    The game was Daily Derby, and if you had certain Race Times, you could not win because the computer programming error excluded certain times from ever being "drawn".  (I use that term lightly, because in a computer there is no "drawing" -- simply a grouping of numbers that is "appointed" by a "random" number generator.) 

    A lottery player figured it out eventually by noticing the odd fact that certain numbers never won, and he notified the lottery -- then finally the lottery recognized and fixed the error.  Meanwhile, thousands, maybe even tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, of lottery tickets had been sold with no chance of winning.

    This is the type of drawing system Arkansas lottery players can look forward to.

    Great job Arkansas Lottery.  Major FAIL.

    Michigan Raffles are obviously RNG.  Michigan used to print  raffle numbers on the tickets and told everyone to ignore them.  I beleive they were like pool numbers.  I wonder if tickets from some pools could never win because of some programming error like the California error.

    I don't know if they still account for the tickets that way but the raffle number is no longer printed on the ticket so we will never know.

      Avatar
      New Member
      Sherman, Texas
      United States
      Member #77902
      August 2, 2009
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      Posted: August 2, 2009, 11:47 pm - IP Logged

      This is exactly why people think people from Arkansas are unintelligent, ingnorant, hillibillies. Forget what the people want & deserve, it's what the fatcats, who probably get a kickback, want & they shove it down your throat. I don't trust computerized drawings & you shouldn't either. One wrong entry in a program & your ticket could have no chance of winning. It's already happened in multiple states. You think Arkansas is intelligent enough to not make any mistakes? Also, I believe, & so do others, that it can be secretly programmed to "pull" numbers that no one has! Why not? Bigger jackpots bring more sales. Do you trust the people in power? I don't! They need to be removed from power. Listen to the customer, we're the ones that pay your salary!!!

        Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
        Chief Bottle Washer
        New Jersey
        United States
        Member #1
        May 31, 2000
        23273 Posts
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        Posted: August 3, 2009, 10:46 am - IP Logged

        Michigan Raffles are obviously RNG.  Michigan used to print  raffle numbers on the tickets and told everyone to ignore them.  I beleive they were like pool numbers.  I wonder if tickets from some pools could never win because of some programming error like the California error.

        I don't know if they still account for the tickets that way but the raffle number is no longer printed on the ticket so we will never know.

        You're saying that Michigan raffle tickets do not have the number printed on them?  I think you may be mistaken.  People could not even check their tickets if that was the case.

        Raffles are an example of a game in which the use of computers actually makes sense.  Another example is "Quick Draw" type games, where a new result is available ever 5 minutes or 10 minutes.  Trying to conduct all of those drawings without fail at such a high rate of frequency would not be viable with a ball-drawn method.

        I don't think the answer is to eliminate those games either (raffles and Quick Draw games), because many people enjoy them, and there is not some over-arching uber-truth that "all computers are bad".

        The drawings of once- or twice-per-day lotto games are the most important things the lottery does, so they must adhere to the very highest standards, with complete transparency and accountability.  If players don't trust the foundational games, they won't trust anything.

        If the lottery is doing so poorly that it feels it needs to eliminate real drawings, then it's time to close down the lottery itself.  Getting rid of the live drawings should not even be an option to consider.  If they get rid of the live drawings they might as well print lottery tickets with no numbers on them, because everything is a closed-loop system inside a computer then, so we are all at the mercy of some programmers and lottery executives at vendors like Intralot.

         

        Check the State Lottery Report Card
        What grade did your lottery earn?

         

        Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
        Help eliminate computerized drawings!

          Captain Lotto's avatar - CaptLotto
          Jefferson City, MO
          United States
          Member #55250
          September 20, 2007
          97 Posts
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          Posted: August 3, 2009, 4:18 pm - IP Logged

          Passalaigue... he's a southern gentleman of distinction.  I assume from South Carolina, but that's a Nawlins name if I ever saw one...

          Captain Lotto

          "Every day is a good day!"

            lottocalgal's avatar - Lottery-043.jpg
            CA
            United States
            Member #57222
            December 23, 2007
            587 Posts
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            Posted: August 3, 2009, 7:00 pm - IP Logged

            this is california below lottocalgal.if you just play the state lotto you should be fine although pretty much everything else is computerized.

             

            • California (29% true lottery drawings)
              True Drawings: Mega Millions, SuperLotto Plus
              Computerized: Daily 3, Daily 4, Daily Derby, Fantasy 5, Midday 3

            thanks for the info Lottomike and Todd.  I only Play Superlotto  and Fantasy Five.  I always knew that the SLP was a true drawing.  But I thought so was Fantasy 5. 

            The oddity here?  Yes it was the Fantasy Five drawing where I won the 4 /5 for $372,   last week.  (my regular picks not QP)

            Talk about irony!

            Thanks again for the info.  As much as I check the CA lotto website, I actually missed that tidbit.

            So do you  computer and math LP experts think that the officials (any state) actually sees what numbers are picked-- then in the hour between the cutoff and the actual drawing they manipulate the machines to draw a non picked ticket.

            I'm sorry I cant get passed that feeling. (but yes I still  play)

              Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
              Chief Bottle Washer
              New Jersey
              United States
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              May 31, 2000
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              Posted: August 3, 2009, 7:42 pm - IP Logged

              thanks for the info Lottomike and Todd.  I only Play Superlotto  and Fantasy Five.  I always knew that the SLP was a true drawing.  But I thought so was Fantasy 5. 

              The oddity here?  Yes it was the Fantasy Five drawing where I won the 4 /5 for $372,   last week.  (my regular picks not QP)

              Talk about irony!

              Thanks again for the info.  As much as I check the CA lotto website, I actually missed that tidbit.

              So do you  computer and math LP experts think that the officials (any state) actually sees what numbers are picked-- then in the hour between the cutoff and the actual drawing they manipulate the machines to draw a non picked ticket.

              I'm sorry I cant get passed that feeling. (but yes I still  play)

              I actually think they do not do that.  I think any state that has someone purposely go in and change the drawing in order to be sure it hits (or not) would have been caught by now.

              HOWEVER, I DO think that someone could have --  or could in the future -- have done that "on the sly".  I am telling you will the certainty of my 25 years of experience with computers that it can be done.  AND it can be done such that nobody would find out.

              Again, just to be clear, I do not think that any state lottery is purposely fixing a drawing.  But I believe they are negligent to institute a drawing method in which it could be done -- one that makes it impossible for a layman to observe the means with which the numbers are selected.

              There is no reason for it -- financial or otherwise.

               

              Check the State Lottery Report Card
              What grade did your lottery earn?

               

              Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
              Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                Think's avatar - lightbulb
                Marquette, MI
                United States
                Member #20541
                August 20, 2005
                705 Posts
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                Posted: August 3, 2009, 8:45 pm - IP Logged

                You're saying that Michigan raffle tickets do not have the number printed on them?  I think you may be mistaken.  People could not even check their tickets if that was the case.

                Raffles are an example of a game in which the use of computers actually makes sense.  Another example is "Quick Draw" type games, where a new result is available ever 5 minutes or 10 minutes.  Trying to conduct all of those drawings without fail at such a high rate of frequency would not be viable with a ball-drawn method.

                I don't think the answer is to eliminate those games either (raffles and Quick Draw games), because many people enjoy them, and there is not some over-arching uber-truth that "all computers are bad".

                The drawings of once- or twice-per-day lotto games are the most important things the lottery does, so they must adhere to the very highest standards, with complete transparency and accountability.  If players don't trust the foundational games, they won't trust anything.

                If the lottery is doing so poorly that it feels it needs to eliminate real drawings, then it's time to close down the lottery itself.  Getting rid of the live drawings should not even be an option to consider.  If they get rid of the live drawings they might as well print lottery tickets with no numbers on them, because everything is a closed-loop system inside a computer then, so we are all at the mercy of some programmers and lottery executives at vendors like Intralot.

                "You're saying that Michigan raffle tickets do not have the number printed on them?  I think you may be mistaken.  People could not even check their tickets if that was the case."

                NO, NO, NO!!!!!

                You are confusing the Ticket number with the raffle number which isn't to be confused with the draw number.

                The current tickets have "Draw 13" printed on them and the "Raffle #" which IS the six digit number.

                The early tickets had the six digit Ticket number and something called a
                "raffle number" actually printed on them.  You could get two tickets in a row and one may say

                "raffle number  47"  and the very next one could say "raffle number 296"  it looked like a pool number and they never explained what they were for.  I believe each ticket still has a number like that but they have stopped actually printing it on the ticket.  They never did say what they are for.  I can mail you a photo copy of a ticket or email you a scan of one if you want to see it.  However I have to find a place that has a scanner.

                  Think's avatar - lightbulb
                  Marquette, MI
                  United States
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                  August 20, 2005
                  705 Posts
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                  Posted: August 3, 2009, 8:56 pm - IP Logged

                  A lot of people don't stop and consider that the lottery has all the drawing and test statistics and they have people that know how to analyze them.

                  That information could be fed into computer filters and they could block individual terminals or geographic areas of terminals or block any terminals however they wanted from printing tickets with statisticaly winning patterns.

                  That could work in the other way too and they could pass only statisticaly winning patterns on one or any set of terminals.

                  Do they do this?  Who knows.  But it looks really suspicious when a town that has less than 10,000 in population keeps getting big winners both online and scratch-off.

                  They are able to do it but whether they actually do it is another thing.

                    Avatar
                    NY
                    United States
                    Member #23835
                    October 16, 2005
                    3474 Posts
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                    Posted: August 3, 2009, 10:22 pm - IP Logged

                    A lot of people don't stop and consider that the lottery has all the drawing and test statistics and they have people that know how to analyze them.

                    That information could be fed into computer filters and they could block individual terminals or geographic areas of terminals or block any terminals however they wanted from printing tickets with statisticaly winning patterns.

                    That could work in the other way too and they could pass only statisticaly winning patterns on one or any set of terminals.

                    Do they do this?  Who knows.  But it looks really suspicious when a town that has less than 10,000 in population keeps getting big winners both online and scratch-off.

                    They are able to do it but whether they actually do it is another thing.

                    "statisticaly winning patterns" ? What patterns are those? Are you suggesting that the lottery knows that their games can be predicted, predicts them accurately, then deliberately prevents the 3rd party RNG's in ticket terminals from generating those numbers?  All while nobody playing the lottery has been able to figure out these "statisticaly winning patterns" and predict the winning numbers?

                    Assuming that the lottery didn't care about the possibility of killing their giant cash cow by getting caught deliberately cheating the players, don't you think they're smart enough to conspire to sell most of those fraudulent winning tickets in bigger towns?

                      Think's avatar - lightbulb
                      Marquette, MI
                      United States
                      Member #20541
                      August 20, 2005
                      705 Posts
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                      Posted: August 4, 2009, 8:57 pm - IP Logged

                      "statisticaly winning patterns" ? What patterns are those? Are you suggesting that the lottery knows that their games can be predicted, predicts them accurately, then deliberately prevents the 3rd party RNG's in ticket terminals from generating those numbers?  All while nobody playing the lottery has been able to figure out these "statisticaly winning patterns" and predict the winning numbers?

                      Assuming that the lottery didn't care about the possibility of killing their giant cash cow by getting caught deliberately cheating the players, don't you think they're smart enough to conspire to sell most of those fraudulent winning tickets in bigger towns?

                      The lotteries have all the information on how their machines operate.  They know how the program works and they have all the data from the Test draws and the real draws.  The Players DO NOT  have all the information.

                      The operators certainly can put statistical filters on any or all terminals.

                      While "the lottery" itself has no reason to do this some of the people who work there may. 

                      Do you pay close attention to where the winners in Michigan are sold?

                      I have noticed several strange things over the years because I pay attention.

                        Captain Lotto's avatar - CaptLotto
                        Jefferson City, MO
                        United States
                        Member #55250
                        September 20, 2007
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                        Posted: August 7, 2009, 11:16 am - IP Logged

                        I can't speak for Michigan, but I know Missouri has numerous procedures to prevent tampering.  Even though employees undergo background checks, they employ security divisions to identify and eliminate new ways to cheat.  The Lottery's very existence depends on maintaining integrity, which is the main reason most are state agencies in the first place.  Even though you find a few bad apples, I'd say most are pretty vigilant about preventing fraud.

                        Captain Lotto

                        "Every day is a good day!"

                          Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
                          Chief Bottle Washer
                          New Jersey
                          United States
                          Member #1
                          May 31, 2000
                          23273 Posts
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                          Posted: August 7, 2009, 1:32 pm - IP Logged

                          I can't speak for Michigan, but I know Missouri has numerous procedures to prevent tampering.  Even though employees undergo background checks, they employ security divisions to identify and eliminate new ways to cheat.  The Lottery's very existence depends on maintaining integrity, which is the main reason most are state agencies in the first place.  Even though you find a few bad apples, I'd say most are pretty vigilant about preventing fraud.

                          I agree, and I don't actually think such a breach is intentional on the part of the people responsible for maintaining a secure drawing.

                          But, just like we all saw yesterday with Twitter -- a service with a multi-million-dollar IT budget -- any computer system can be hacked, and it is rarely done by someone responsible for maintaining the system.

                          ANY computer system can be hacked.  There are fabulous techniques for maintaining security, but there has never been a security technique invented that has not been breached.  Every company suffers failures and breaches, and even systems like the Pentagon's get hacked.  Even the ones that are supposedly not connected to other systems.

                          All these breaches and failures occur despite the best intentions of the people responsible for maintaining security.

                          With this in mind, there is no reason for getting rid of ball drawings.  They are not able to be hacked like a computer can be, and any layman observer can see the means by which the numbers are selected.

                          Every lottery that is currently computerized can generate enormous excitement and generate extra profits by bringing back real ball drawings.  In this period of financial hardship, people are looking for excitement, and it can never come from a computer.

                           

                          Check the State Lottery Report Card
                          What grade did your lottery earn?

                           

                          Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
                          Help eliminate computerized drawings!

                            Avatar

                            United States
                            Member #10720
                            January 23, 2005
                            933 Posts
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                            Posted: August 9, 2009, 1:53 pm - IP Logged

                            Don't play any Doubles or Triples at first!

                            Are people afraid the computerized drawings can't be systemized or that they will have programming errors that make some ticket unwinnable or that they can be more easily fixed? Would we accept computerized drawings if they could be proven to run flawlessly and fairly?

                            Many of the same people who are against computerized Lotteries have no problem with online casinos that are not only computerized but less regulated.

                            I don't like computerized anything in the Lottery...I have yet to win anything in a computerized game higher than $1.

                              Litebets27's avatar - power
                              Maryland
                              United States
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                              January 14, 2005
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                              Posted: August 9, 2009, 2:28 pm - IP Logged

                              Arkansas should consult Maryland's lottery commission and operartors on how to operate an all ball drawing system and still bring in at the least a Billion dollars each fiscal year.  LOL

                              Feeling,  PRICELESS!!!Banana

                              Come on Jackpot!!!