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Washington man to fight state lottery; says new scratch card 'misleading'

Topic closed. 28 replies. Last post 3 years ago by rdgrnr.

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Think's avatar - lightbulb
Marquette, MI
United States
Member #20541
August 20, 2005
705 Posts
Offline
Posted: June 17, 2013, 4:42 pm - IP Logged

"We are the first to offer a scratch card that plays on the front and back, ...."

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ NOPE! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

Michigan had a scratcher that played on both sides awhile back.  If Michigan did then other states must have also.

    psykomo's avatar - animal shark.jpg

    United States
    Member #4877
    May 30, 2004
    5124 Posts
    Offline
    Posted: June 17, 2013, 5:28 pm - IP Logged

    "We are the first to offer a scratch card that plays on the front and back, ...."

    BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ NOPE! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

    Michigan had a scratcher that played on both sides awhile back.  If Michigan did then other states must have also.

    THINK:

    "No legimate lottery will ask you for money up-front" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    that must B written somewhere on UR ticket somewhere?????????????!

    WARNING:

    US residents who play R may not play can "B" RIPPED

    Evil LookingMail For You  Evil Looking>>>>>>>>>OogleIdeaOogle>>>NOT>"AGAIN" !!!!

      Avatar
      Keokuk,Iowa
      United States
      Member #116504
      September 12, 2011
      305 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: June 17, 2013, 5:38 pm - IP Logged

      "We are the first to offer a scratch card that plays on the front and back, ...."

      BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ NOPE! WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

      Michigan had a scratcher that played on both sides awhile back.  If Michigan did then other states must have also.

      Missouri had scratchers that had plays on both sides,too.

        Avatar
        GA
        United States
        Member #110378
        May 2, 2011
        4786 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: June 17, 2013, 6:19 pm - IP Logged

        i was all for him fighting until i read the part about front and back sides LOL 

         

        You big dummy

        -

        You win bully, you and your pathetic minions are going to have to

        find someone else to pick on now.   And there are plenty for you here

        since you pretty much hate all but about 3 or 4 people that post here.

        SAD SAD Person.  What comes around goes around.

          psykomo's avatar - animal shark.jpg

          United States
          Member #4877
          May 30, 2004
          5124 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: June 17, 2013, 7:11 pm - IP Logged

          i was all for him fighting until i read the part about front and back sides LOL 

           

          You big dummy

          rzbr:

          UR so SMART>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Big Grin Santa

          Have U read>>>>>FRONT>>>>>>>BACK<<<<<<<<SIDE<<<<<<??????????????????????????Noel

          "NO legimate lottery will ask you for MONEY UP FRONT" ThudTHEY LOOK OUT FOR "YOU"Thud

          THANK'$ 4 LP >does LP>"RING A BELL"

              PartyPartyDanceDanceDancePartyParty

            haymaker's avatar - Lottery-012.jpg
            Egg Harbor twp.south Jersey shore
            United States
            Member #112968
            June 29, 2011
            3856 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: June 17, 2013, 7:28 pm - IP Logged

            Frivolous lawsuits are a cancer on this country.

            When Mr. Goldsmith loses his case, he should have to pay court costs, and possibly opposing attorney's fees. In addition, we need to have a point system for lawyers that bring these types of cases. Like if you get too many points on your driver's license, then you get your license suspended.

            I Agree! To bad it will never happen.

            Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds    -- Charles Mackay  LL.D.

              dallascowboyfan's avatar - tiana the-princess-and-the-frog.jpg
              Oklahoma
              United States
              Member #82391
              November 12, 2009
              6290 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: June 17, 2013, 10:52 pm - IP Logged

              If he's been playing a long time, then he knows that each game is played separately on these multiple grid
              tickets.
              Does he really expect to be paid? Wow.

              I Agree!

              I Love Pink & Green 1908

                Avatar
                Seattle, Washington
                United States
                Member #121153
                January 3, 2012
                120 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: June 18, 2013, 2:45 pm - IP Logged

                This guy reminds me of those boneheads who misread a Publishers Clearing House e-mail (that said "We'll tell you "You're a $10,000,000 winner"... if your number is drawn..."), went out & bought a brand new doublewide manufactured home, only to find out they'd screwed up.  So, what did they do?  They waged a hard core publicity campaign, demanding PCH "pay up".  Boneheads...

                  luckyshoes's avatar - butterfly neg.jpg
                  Pennsylvania
                  United States
                  Member #79502
                  September 2, 2009
                  6396 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: June 19, 2013, 11:53 am - IP Logged

                  Some are so determined  to get a big win that they ll even sue to obtain it.  No No

                  Is common sense the 1st thing to go when theres money at stake? Seen it before.

                    Avatar
                    New Member
                    Kennewick
                    United States
                    Member #144072
                    June 23, 2013
                    1 Posts
                    Offline
                    Posted: June 23, 2013, 11:14 am - IP Logged

                    A Kennewick, Washington, man plans to fight the Washington State Lottery in court over a scratch card payoff that didn't pan out.

                    Ken Goldsmith, 55, recently bought one of the newest scratch cards, Red Hot 5s, and thought he scored the top prize of $55,555 by matching one of the numbers.

                    But when he scanned the card at a lottery kiosk, it came up a loser.

                    "I called the lottery office in Olympia to find out why it scanned a loser, but they knew what scratch card I was referring to before I even mentioned it," Goldsmith said.

                    The language on the Red Hot 5s scratch card says to match a number on the card to one of the winning numbers and win that cash prize.

                    The language also states that there are more numbers on the back side of the card to play. What it doesn't say is that the front and the back of the ticket are two different games, and that's where the confusion sets in, Goldsmith said.

                    "I matched a number on the back to the $55,555 winning number on the front, so I thought for sure I'd won," he said. "The people at the lottery office told me it was made clear on their website that this scratch card was two different games, but it should have been made clear on the scratch card, and the fact that it isn't is very misleading."

                    Seems Goldsmith isn't the only player confused.

                    "The Red Hot 5s scratch card has caused some confusion with people," said Arlen Harris, a lottery spokesman. "But we have no intention of pulling the ticket from the market because the cost factor would be excessive."

                    The Red Hot 5s is the first double-sided scratch card issued across the country, Harris added.

                    "We are the first to offer a scratch card that plays on the front and back, and we hope to add another one in the future," he said. "We've learned from this experience, however, and we will be more explanatory with future scratch cards like this one."

                    Goldsmith isn't satisfied with the lottery office's explanation. He thinks the tickets should be honored because the correct game rules were not printed on the cards.

                    "People don't go to the lottery website to check the rules," Goldsmith said. "They expect them to be on the card."

                    He plans to fight the issue in court, and has asked the Washington State Bar Association to recommend an attorney to represent him.

                    "I am not ignorant about how scratch cards work, since I've been buying them for 15 years," Goldsmith said. "I read all the rules on the cards, but I am amazed at how many people don't do that and will throw away a ticket that is a winner because they didn't read all the rules on how the game wins."

                    That's why he picks discarded scratch cards out of the trash wherever he sees them.

                    He's never thrown away any of his loser cards, either. He keeps them stored in boxes according to the year they were purchased.

                    "I've won a decent amount of money many times on those castoff tickets," Goldsmith said. "And that's why this Red Hot 5s game has me annoyed. Nowhere on that ticket does it say the front and the back are two separate games."

                    News story photo(Click to display full-size in gallery)

                    For everyone who has posted  negative comments here, maybe you should be aware of the facts before you type.

                    The fact that the Lottery only posted the the comment of Two games on one ticket,  each game played separately on the Lottery website and not on the game is deceivieving the public. You shouldn't have to go to a website to read new rules .

                     

                    Also, seems there must be something in his favor now - the WA State lottery has now pulled the game from retailers.  And not only this game but the Cold Hard Cash game as well.  Seems they are trying to cover up the fact that they made a mistake.  They lied to the reporter who covered the story saying that this was the first double sided scratch game in the country where in fact it was the cold hard cash game. and they said they would be more carefull in the future with clarity.

                     

                    You people were beating this guy up for what he believes to be a problem matic ticket at least open for interpitation.  Read the story again, they said that they had no intentions of pulling the game, so why do you think that on Friday the 21st, the lottery pulled the game if there was no merit to his statements.

                    He is fighting for what he believes is right and it looks like he has their attention.

                    He also has a lawyer now willing to represent him on a conginentcy to open a class action lawsuit for many who feel they have been wronged as well

                    I hope he wins and shows the public not to be afraid to stand up for whats right

                      Jon D's avatar - calotterylogo
                      Los Angeles, California
                      United States
                      Member #103813
                      January 5, 2011
                      1530 Posts
                      Offline
                      Posted: June 23, 2013, 9:07 pm - IP Logged

                      For everyone who has posted  negative comments here, maybe you should be aware of the facts before you type.

                      The fact that the Lottery only posted the the comment of Two games on one ticket,  each game played separately on the Lottery website and not on the game is deceivieving the public. You shouldn't have to go to a website to read new rules .

                       

                      Also, seems there must be something in his favor now - the WA State lottery has now pulled the game from retailers.  And not only this game but the Cold Hard Cash game as well.  Seems they are trying to cover up the fact that they made a mistake.  They lied to the reporter who covered the story saying that this was the first double sided scratch game in the country where in fact it was the cold hard cash game. and they said they would be more carefull in the future with clarity.

                       

                      You people were beating this guy up for what he believes to be a problem matic ticket at least open for interpitation.  Read the story again, they said that they had no intentions of pulling the game, so why do you think that on Friday the 21st, the lottery pulled the game if there was no merit to his statements.

                      He is fighting for what he believes is right and it looks like he has their attention.

                      He also has a lawyer now willing to represent him on a conginentcy to open a class action lawsuit for many who feel they have been wronged as well

                      I hope he wins and shows the public not to be afraid to stand up for whats right

                      Monkeybutt, (nice screen name...your real name wouldn't be Ken by any chance? Wink ...just kidding)

                      Is the game cancellation confirmed anywhere? Any link? Or is this just word of mouth or from a clerk? I don't doubt you, just would like to confirm.

                      If so, I have no problem with that. If the game is confusing or misleading, then maybe they should pull it. The lottery will then just have to recover those losses later on. And I wouldn't be surprised if they did pull it in this case. We know the mere threat of a lawsuit causes businesses to make changes or concessions, regardless of whether they are right or wrong. This is the power of litigation.

                      But if Ken is trying to go for the money, that is another story. There are rules and regulations that every state lottery publishes. These are not printed on the ticket, and not shown on the main website along with the games. But they are always in effect.

                      Here is your WA lottery relevant rules:

                      http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=315-10-070

                      Note section 1(e) covers misprints, which is what is typically used for defense, but may not be relevant oin this case. But you always have section 1(h) that covers the ticket codes. There are only 5 tickets having ticket and lottery numbers with matching top prizes. Ken is asking for a top prize for a ticket without a matching code.

                      In fact, on the back of the Red Hot 5s game, I see it says "All Games are subject to Title 315 WAC" as noted above.

                        bandit999's avatar - Lottery-029.jpg
                        New Member
                        Yakima, WA
                        United States
                        Member #144303
                        June 30, 2013
                        1 Posts
                        Offline
                        Posted: June 30, 2013, 10:34 pm - IP Logged

                        A Kennewick, Washington, man plans to fight the Washington State Lottery in court over a scratch card payoff that didn't pan out.

                        Ken Goldsmith, 55, recently bought one of the newest scratch cards, Red Hot 5s, and thought he scored the top prize of $55,555 by matching one of the numbers.

                        But when he scanned the card at a lottery kiosk, it came up a loser.

                        "I called the lottery office in Olympia to find out why it scanned a loser, but they knew what scratch card I was referring to before I even mentioned it," Goldsmith said.

                        The language on the Red Hot 5s scratch card says to match a number on the card to one of the winning numbers and win that cash prize.

                        The language also states that there are more numbers on the back side of the card to play. What it doesn't say is that the front and the back of the ticket are two different games, and that's where the confusion sets in, Goldsmith said.

                        "I matched a number on the back to the $55,555 winning number on the front, so I thought for sure I'd won," he said. "The people at the lottery office told me it was made clear on their website that this scratch card was two different games, but it should have been made clear on the scratch card, and the fact that it isn't is very misleading."

                        Seems Goldsmith isn't the only player confused.

                        "The Red Hot 5s scratch card has caused some confusion with people," said Arlen Harris, a lottery spokesman. "But we have no intention of pulling the ticket from the market because the cost factor would be excessive."

                        The Red Hot 5s is the first double-sided scratch card issued across the country, Harris added.

                        "We are the first to offer a scratch card that plays on the front and back, and we hope to add another one in the future," he said. "We've learned from this experience, however, and we will be more explanatory with future scratch cards like this one."

                        Goldsmith isn't satisfied with the lottery office's explanation. He thinks the tickets should be honored because the correct game rules were not printed on the cards.

                        "People don't go to the lottery website to check the rules," Goldsmith said. "They expect them to be on the card."

                        He plans to fight the issue in court, and has asked the Washington State Bar Association to recommend an attorney to represent him.

                        "I am not ignorant about how scratch cards work, since I've been buying them for 15 years," Goldsmith said. "I read all the rules on the cards, but I am amazed at how many people don't do that and will throw away a ticket that is a winner because they didn't read all the rules on how the game wins."

                        That's why he picks discarded scratch cards out of the trash wherever he sees them.

                        He's never thrown away any of his loser cards, either. He keeps them stored in boxes according to the year they were purchased.

                        "I've won a decent amount of money many times on those castoff tickets," Goldsmith said. "And that's why this Red Hot 5s game has me annoyed. Nowhere on that ticket does it say the front and the back are two separate games."

                        News story photo(Click to display full-size in gallery)

                        I have read all the negative comments concerning this man and the lawsuit and am kind of angry.  I am from WA State and have played scratch tickets for over 20 years - in many states beside here when traveling.

                        I have never before been confused about whether the tickets were winners or losers until 3 days ago when I bought a Red Hot 5s ticket.  The instructions on the ticket say nothing about the game on the back being separate from the front - at first I kinda of thought they would be since it did have different symbols listed under the numbers on the back - but then I matched one of the numbers on the back to one of the 5 "winning numbers" on the front and thought "WHY WOULD THEY HAVE NUMBERS ON THE BACK MATCHING THE WINNING NUMBERS ON THE FRONT IF THEY WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE CONSIDERED????"  For Pete's sake there are only 5 winning numbers per card - if they didn't want the ones on the back to be considered why have any that MATCH!!  The card says "scratch the back for more chances to win"  Not "scratch the back and match the symbols to win" .  This ticket is very poorly designed - I was going to take it in to a retailer to have it checked - since it looked like a $30 winner and the ticket claims on the top front that there are over 41,000 prizes of $30 or $50 - I figured it maybe was a winner.  I applaud this guy for standing up to the Lottery - even if he doesn't win anything it will make them more careful in ticket design - they make a fortune off us - I at least expect some instructions on the ticket!!  I also went out to the Lottery website (the first time I have done so since I won big and needed a claim form) and did see the separate games message - HOWEVER, HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED BINGO CARDS?  THEY SAY EACH GAME IS SEPARATE - BUT DO YOU EXPECT SEPARATE NUMBER FOR EACH BINGO GAME????    OF COURSE NOT!  SO IF A GAME HAS NO NUMBERS TO BE MATCHED WHY HAVE NUMBERS USED AT ALL!!!  They could have just put some random symbols in the play area on the back and then the winners would have the symbols listed - save the confusion! 

                        Plus it appears most of you haven't even seen the ticket!  This is my first post so you can tell you've all pretty well ticked me off!

                          Romancandle's avatar - moon
                          Upacreek
                          United States
                          Member #136306
                          December 8, 2012
                          429 Posts
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                          Posted: July 1, 2013, 12:01 am - IP Logged

                          I didn't see anything either about WA pulling the game... if they did... who absorbs the losses in that scenario? 

                          And holy smokes... he must have at least $55,555 worth of losing tickets in those piles!

                          -RC

                            rdgrnr's avatar - walt
                            Way back up in them dadgum hills, son!
                            United States
                            Member #73904
                            April 28, 2009
                            14903 Posts
                            Offline
                            Posted: July 1, 2013, 8:47 pm - IP Logged

                            Frivolous lawsuits are a cancer on this country.

                            When Mr. Goldsmith loses his case, he should have to pay court costs, and possibly opposing attorney's fees. In addition, we need to have a point system for lawyers that bring these types of cases. Like if you get too many points on your driver's license, then you get your license suspended.

                            "In addition, we need to have a point system for lawyers that bring these types of cases. Like if you get too many points on your driver's license, then you get your license suspended."

                             

                            I like that idea.  Thumbs Up


                                                                         
                                                 
                                                                     

                             

                             

                             

                             

                                                                                                                               

                            "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

                                                                                                                        --Edmund Burke