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Your Position on position tracking

Topic closed. 4 replies. Last post 12 years ago by WPR85.

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New Member
United States
Member #9859
December 24, 2004
3 Posts
Posted: December 25, 2004, 1:28 am - IP Logged

Hello and Merry Holidays.

I'm new and delurking on this board with the following questions:

How many of you track positional hits? I'm in California and I have been playing the Fantasy 5. I have been using Lotto Pro and Lottowhiz for statistical tracking. Positional tracking is intriguing to me but I assume you have to have exact draw positions in order to make it work. Lottowhiz in their drawing entry only allows you to enter the drawings in ascending order (lowest # 1st, highest # last). I don't understand how the program can interpolate that data into proper positional hits.

Lotto Pro does not offer positional tracking at all though it does allow you to enter the draw in any order.

If you think that this is relevant what means would you use via software to track the hit position of various numbers in a 5/39 game.

My second query is about games that have their balls loaded in a rack and then drop them into the lotto sphere. It seems to me that the load order would greatly effect the bias of the balls once they are loaded into the sphere and begin to be tossed about. I suspect that they may in fact cluster somewhat while they are tumbling about ie if high numbers were racked together then they might tend to cluster near one another as they tumble about.

In the California game the machine starts drawing the numbers fairly rapidly so they don't get a chance to really get mixed up. If the machine were to run for lets say 10 or 20 minutes before the 1st draw then I would assume that the original clusters would have broken up and it starts to resemble a pseudo random number draw, but that is not the case.

I assume that the phenomena that we call hot and cold numbers might be a bias that is introduced by the lottery operators by changing the racking order of the balls before they descend into the machine. This of course only would apply to lotteries that observe this kind of practice. If they simply pour the balls in from a bucket and then turn on the machine the consequence might be different.

Would like to hear you thoughts about this.


    JKING's avatar - Kaleidoscope 3.gif

    United States
    Member #5599
    July 13, 2004
    1192 Posts
    Posted: December 25, 2004, 11:29 am - IP Logged


      For me, postional tracking merely establishes ranges, ie the lowest value ranger would be 1-18 for a sorted ball 1. Positonal tracking techniques can also be used for occurrences, pairing, history, roots...etc.

        As far as the California 5/39, something is right with it. All you have to do is look at the current odd/even imbalance over the last 50-75 games. HIGHLY IMPROBABLE!!!!!

    You are a slave to the choices you have made.  jk

    Even a blind squirrel will occasioanlly find an acorn.

      ayenowitall's avatar - rod serling4.jpg

      United States
      Member #4416
      April 22, 2004
      1075 Posts
      Posted: December 25, 2004, 4:39 pm - IP Logged


      It sounds like you're getting draw order and postional hits mixed together in your thinking. Any numbers can be drawn in any order, but as johnph77's chart shows, there are some frequency limitations on the ordinal positions that any given number can assume. That information may or may not be useful to you, but it's quite different from tracking the positions that numbers have taken based on the draw order history of a game. I think the latter is what you're after. Good luck with your results in tracking and analyzing it.

      The answer to your second query depends largely on what your concept of randomness is. From what I've read, even mathematicians can't agree entirely on that. I certainly can't say definitively what randomness is and I'm not entirely sure that I want perfect randomness in lottery drawings. I just want my numbers to be drawn.

      Good luck,


        BobP's avatar - bobp avatar.png
        Dump Water Florida
        United States
        Member #380
        June 5, 2002
        3114 Posts
        Posted: December 26, 2004, 2:31 am - IP Logged

        I would split positional tracking into two data bases, those draws where the lowest number drawn is between 01-10 and the draws where the lowest number drawn is between 11 on up.  For larger games I use 01-13 and 14 on up.  I also leave out the wacky draws that just throw your data off.  This means one true data base and several with bias.

        I would say ten seconds is enough to mix the balls, can't you tape a draw and watch it on slow second by second?


          New Member

          United States
          Member #9842
          December 24, 2004
          20 Posts
          Posted: December 26, 2004, 5:22 pm - IP Logged

          Hey i don't know from experience but if you search around in www.saliu.com there are all sorts of programs for tracking and stuff Pick-3 Pick-4 Lotto 5, Lotto 6, Powerball. they will do position tracking i have only used the pick 4 program though