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# Indiana's response to my e-maik

Topic closed. 11 replies. Last post 12 years ago by Maverick.

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United States
Member #66
October 19, 2000
218 Posts
Offline
 Posted: March 19, 2005, 10:24 pm - IP Logged

Dear sir: I hope this email finds itself to you as I had some
problems sending it the first time. We received your email and I wanted
come across before, so you obviously have an appreciation for Lottery
games.  I realize you are trying to understand some of the differences
between the states, but I felt compelled to explain some fundamental
concepts that you seem to be ignoring with your comments. I found it a
little odd that you copied so many people considering the answer to your
issue is a simple answer from the basis of statistics and probability.
Despite what you may think, there are no tricks ... only mathematics.  I
wasn't sure what your comment meant of what the Lottery is "doing to the
hard working people of Indiana" or "how can you people sleep at night?"
Matrices and expected values do not lie and do not change. The odds of
winning a straight wager, for example, on Daily 4 in Indiana are exactly
the same of those odds in Ohio.  In both cases, the odds are 1:10,000
and both games pay out a top prize of \$5000.  Your comment about Ohio
paying off so much more even though a specific draw was only off one
number is irrelevant to the prize matrix and game itself.  Ohio pays out
more in total dollars than Indiana because a lot more people play in
Ohio and live in Ohio than in Indiana.  However, if you studied the
numbers more closely, you would see that the long-term percentage
payouts of both Indiana's game and Ohio's game are nearly the same.  In
other words, Indiana pays out the same amount of money to players as
Ohio as a percentage of sales.  What does that mean?  Individual players
win no more money in Ohio than they do in Indiana, but more people win
because more people play.  Think of it another way.  There are probably
people in Ohio right now just like you that are complaining that New
York pays out a significant amount more money in Daily 3 and Daily 4
than Ohio.  Why?  Because New York sells a lot more tickets than Ohio to
its much larger population.  On the other hand, Indiana sells a lot more
and pays out a lot more than a state like South Dakota. Comparing state
to state is not so easy.  There are many facts that you need to
consider, but I will let you know a fundamental concept of probability.
That is, if you were to play the same numbers in Ohio and Indiana for a
"long" period of time and not miss a draw, then the probability would
tell you that you could expect to win nearly the same amount of money in
the end in total payout back to the individual player in either state. I
wish very much that we paid out total prizes on the daily games like a
state like Ohio because that would mean we would be selling a lot more
tickets.  I am all for that.  I hope that we can develop ways to grow
the sales of these games.  Recently, we have had several new people come
in to positions at the Lottery.  I think you will see in time that we
are dedicated to making our games, including the daily games, more
exciting than ever before. Thanks again for the questions and comments.
We take our players and our games very seriously and strive to maintain
ethical standards and products at all times.  Again * no tricks * just
mathematics! If we can be of further assistance please e-mail us again
or call our Customer Service Department directly at 1-800-955-6886.
Thank you

>>> <Email Address Removed> 3/15/2005 10:16:20 AM >>>
last nights eve pick four was 3613 our prize payout was 13,280.00
ohio pick 4 eve was 3623 with a prize pay out of 113,700.00
we have a extra 2 hours of buying time yet we are 11% prize pay out of
ohio !

How do you people sleep at night.

C.C.
Robert Alderman
CBS 48 Hours

mid-Ohio
United States
Member #9
March 24, 2001
19901 Posts
Offline
 Posted: March 19, 2005, 10:39 pm - IP Logged

Maybe you should take their suggestions and start buying your tickets in Ohio.  I'm sure Ohio will welcome the extra money.

RJOh

* you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket *

East of Atlanta
United States
Member #6191
August 11, 2004
1389 Posts
Offline
 Posted: March 19, 2005, 10:48 pm - IP Logged

The question I would pose is, where does Indiana provide the data relating sales to pay-out percentages? I think GA will provide the data on request. Truthfully, not sure of any state that actually tells their total sales. But for them to base the response on percentages, the gross intake must be made public so that everyone can see for themselves, the net payout to actual sales. I don't say anything is more or less honest then another. But if one wishes to use the gross sales volume as the basis of defense, then one must show that for a reasonable comparison. Just my personal and not so humble opinion, but then again, not the first time I didn't know what I was talking about.

Sir Metro

Humility is the ability to say your sorry without being sorry for doing so.

South Carolina
United States
Member #6
November 4, 2001
8797 Posts
Online
 Posted: March 19, 2005, 11:23 pm - IP Logged

I am curious as to what their triple 5 payout will be for todays mid-draw.
Trips generally run at a higher percentage.

Oo'Ka

Greenfield
United States
Member #3587
February 2, 2004
557 Posts
Offline
 Posted: March 20, 2005, 4:06 am - IP Logged

If there are no tricks then go back to balls! I have enough tickets here to prove the odds dont happen here. I am bankrupt because of it!  When I see all my tickets and then check the Indiana payout screen it confirms everything Jim and I have said. My question, why are the payouts so low for a 16 year lottery. Why does Indiana lead the nation in Bankruptcy. The ticket scandal we had prettty much confirms everyones opinion that things are not right. We need TV coverage!

Help Oprah, Montel, Maury!

Greenfield
United States
Member #3587
February 2, 2004
557 Posts
Offline
 Posted: March 20, 2005, 4:09 am - IP Logged

Thanks Mark for the help----we know things are funny in dodge.  Lets stay on this until we get a fair drawing. From the looks of the payouts absoultely no one in Indiana is playing--are they bankrupt or have they just figured out its impossible to win.

United States
Member #4416
April 22, 2004
1075 Posts
Offline
 Posted: March 20, 2005, 7:29 am - IP Logged
Quote: Originally posted by JAP69 on March 19, 2005

I am curious as to what their triple 5 payout will be for todays mid-draw.
Trips generally run at a higher percentage.

There were 358 winning tickets on the 555 at midday in Indiana yesterday.

Total payout was \$179,000.00

The last time a quad was drawn (0000 on 10-12-04 evening), there were 64 winning tickets.

Total payout for that draw was \$320,000.00

aye'

Chief Bottle Washer
New Jersey
United States
Member #1
May 31, 2000
23349 Posts
Online
 Posted: March 20, 2005, 11:14 am - IP Logged

Mark,

Thanks for sharing that e-mail from Indiana.

Since they are speaking of mathematics, I wonder if they have mathematically learned if more people per capita play in other states?  If so, a big reason for that may be the dopey computer drawings, rather than conducting drawings with traditional ball machines.

I don't understand what's getting into the heads of these lottery directors.  I think there may be a hidden agenda, that something in the future will be easier or better for them if they change to computerized drawings.  The annual savings is too little to make a significant impact, so it must be something else.

Check the State Lottery Report Card

Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
Help eliminate computerized drawings!

United States
Member #66
October 19, 2000
218 Posts
Offline
 Posted: March 20, 2005, 1:41 pm - IP Logged

I was glad they responded the way they did.

It gave me more to work with, they made the comparison to New York, which has sent me on a data comparison with that state.

Ohio is 59% the population size of New York

Indiana is 54% the population size of Ohio, and 32% the size of New York

The prize payout comparisons are

Ohio to New York 57 to 61%

Indiana to Ohio  18 to 21%

Indiana to New York 7 to 10 %

how can the prize payouts of Ohio to New York be a close relation to the population diference and Indiana is not.

I wonder how they will respond to this comparison.

And how did they end up comparing Indiana to South Dakota when South dakota doesn't have a pick 3 or pick 4 drawing

This is continuing to become interesting I'll keep everyone up dated as to the latest.

Mark

P.S. Thankyou, Todd, losingjeff,jim695 for your support.

United States
Member #66
October 19, 2000
218 Posts
Offline
 Posted: March 20, 2005, 2:18 pm - IP Logged

I am curious as to what their triple 5 payout will be for todays mid-draw.
Trips generally run at a higher percentage.

There were 358 winning tickets on the 555 at midday in Indiana yesterday.

Total payout was \$179,000.00

The last time a quad was drawn (0000 on 10-12-04 evening), there were 64 winning tickets.

Total payout for that draw was \$320,000.00

aye'

Yet on 3-17 eve we had 333 come in with only 39 winners with a prize payout of 20,000.00

In January of this year Ohio had 333 come in with a prize payout of 934,000.00

Just maybe the 358 winners of the 555 might be a result of the presure that is being put on the hoosier lottery,

everytime I e-mail them I post here, e-mail Mr. Alderman, and 48 hours.

AS the Hoosier lottery says, it's all mathematics, and there right, math does not lie, nor does statistics.

I consulted with my brother inlaw on this just yesterday, He writes computor programs for a major company.

He told me that it would be very easy to write the program to draw the numbers that had the least amount of purchases for that day, and game so in turn have the least amount of payouts.

Look at this example for a minute if Indiana is 54% the population of Ohio

and ohio's prize payouts average 200,000 dollars

Then Indiana's payout's should average 108,000 dollars

with all things being equal

but if there payouts are averaging 40,000 dollars

then the real question is where is the 68,000 dollar difference going?

and this is for only one drawing, we have 2 so this is 68,000 times 2 a day 6 days a week and once more on Sunday.

this comes out to 476,000 a week 52 weeks a year, over 24,000,000 a year less.

Folks this is why it is so important that we sign the petition to stop computerized draws.

It's bad enough that we love this game of chance, but when there stacking the deck against us, it becomes criminal.

Thanks, Mark

United States
Member #379
June 5, 2002
11296 Posts
Offline
 Posted: March 20, 2005, 2:24 pm - IP Logged

mark:

SD has a pick-5 game however.

USA
United States
Member #8242
October 29, 2004
1133 Posts
Offline
 Posted: March 20, 2005, 6:31 pm - IP Logged
Quote: Originally posted by mark on March 20, 2005

And how did they end up comparing Indiana to South Dakota when South dakota doesn't have a pick 3 or pick 4 drawing.

I wonder how they will respond to this comparison. Doh!

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