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Lottery Taxation

Topic closed. 41 replies. Last post 11 years ago by Chewie.

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United States
Member #17555
June 22, 2005
5582 Posts
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Posted: August 14, 2005, 6:52 pm - IP Logged

I say we adopt the Fair Tax which eliminates all income tax, all payroll tax and in turn should wipe out all income taxes on lottery winnings.

Check out the article in my blog which gives a rough outline of the proposal and highlights a recently written book which throroughly explains what the Fair Tax will accomplish. 

 http://blogs.lotterypost.com/konane/

Flat tax will never happen.

You're asking a Congressperson to limit the amount of a pay raise they can give themself. The power of Congress come from MONEY. No way is a person going to put any sort of restriction on how they spend money. Money is power. The control of money is the ultimate power. What would happen to entitlements when the flat tax money runs out - will they be cut-off. Heheheheheh! Polyana thoughts! As long as Congress can raise a tax, they can buy anything they want. Think of a Congressperson sitting in their corporate paid jet, on their way to a corporate paid vacation, to play corporate paid golf. Think of all the tax deductions that would be removed: charities, business trips, business planes, corporate complexes, energy efficiency (cheaper gas), home ownership mortages - the list goes on. Remember, you can't get an amendment to the Constitution without first getting a bill through Congress.  Do you really think they would eliminate that without a fight to the death?

Senators Byrd or Lautenburg don't stay in office because they loves America. They, along with all their cronies, stay in, because they don't have enough buildings and roads named after themselves. That ego-buying costs money. Money comes from taxpayers. When was the last time Congress voted down all Pork-Barrel spending? The same vote that authorised the flat-tax!

 

You know? I never thought of that. I'm totally against the fair tax. I want to send Neal Boortz what you wrote. Then maybe he can climb down from his lofty la-la land ideas and see how an LP member can tell the truth about greed within the govt.

Kudos to people like you out there. No matter how prestigious a person is, as like an AM radio station talk show host, They will always be so caught up in their delusions, that they will never admit or wise up to the facts. That is because they have some obligatory ties, somewhere within the govt. Either they are benefiting in the ratings, or some hidden agenda.

A nice, but angry little old lady calls these shows, concerning this and other govt. control issues, such as the Illuminati and the elite who run the economy. She almost always is hung up on. They don't have or want to have an open mind. The ratings are more important.

Just to let everyone know that the U.S. Government doesn't own any of the money. That's right...The World Bank owns it. Don't believe me? PM me and I'll prove with the origination of it in recent history on how this happened.

Please everyone out there, don't get me wrong....I wouldn't want to live anywhere other than the good old U.S. of A. Just remember that our founding fathers were in the minority at the time. They always said never let the government get too powerful. This idea, at first did not go over well with the people.

This country was bought and sold a long time ago. The s##t they shuffle around every four years as George Carlin said....BS.


    United States
    Member #5565
    July 11, 2004
    260 Posts
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    Posted: August 14, 2005, 7:00 pm - IP Logged
       

    I say we adopt the Fair Tax which eliminates all income tax, all payroll tax and in turn should wipe out all income taxes on lottery winnings.

    Check out the article in my blog which gives a rough outline of the proposal and highlights a recently written book which throroughly explains what the Fair Tax will accomplish.

    http://blogs.lotterypost.com/konane/

    Here are my problems with the "Fair Tax':

    1. The actual tax rate is much higher than that advertised by the author of the plan. He claims that only a 23 percent consumption tax rate on retail sales, exclusive of food and medical products, is needed to produce the same amount of revenue as the current tax code. First of all, the tax rate is actually 30 percent since for every 77 cents of a good or service that is purchased, another 23 cents is added on in the form of this national sales tax. I can assure that a 30 percent sales tax will not result in a robust economy and the tax will have to be raised.

    2. Since the tax does nothing to address the current shortfall in the budget, the tax will have to rise in the not too distant future. The current shortfall in the budget is $ 400 billion so we'll need at least a 20 percent increase in this sales tax to address this. As the Bush Medicare fiasco kicks in in later this decade, the deficit will widen once again (still much more if his Social Security plan is passed). The real tax rate will have to rise to the range of 35 to 45 percent, which is on a par with the onerous VAT taxes in Europe.

    3. The tax plan exempts used goods. This opens up an area ripe for corruption and fraud where goods can be smuggled in through the underground economy and escape the taxes.

    4. Another problem is what to do with returned or damaged new goods. Do these items have to be destroyed or can they be resold after remediation? If these goods are repaired and resold, the plan says these products don't have to be taxed. It doesn't seem fair that much of the same public and private infrastructure exists to serve the commerce of used goods as well as new goods, yet used products are sold tax-free. It too would seem to open up an area for corruption where businesses can traffic in recycled products that escaped the tax system.

    5. Businesses, governments, charitable organizations, and churches are exempt from the tax. This too would seem to open up an area of fraud where people can buy the products free of the tax and then try to profit by reselling the item in a market where new products are artificially inflated in price.

    6. The fair tax amounts to a double taxation on a significant number of people who'll retire at some point in the near future. Many people are retiring using savings that were accrued over a lifetime and were already taxed according to the present income tax system. When that money is withdrawn and spent at the present time, it doesn't encounter a tax. Implementing a national sales tax will tax a significant amount of retirement income that was accumulated through after-tax savings and through the sale of their primary residence.

    7. The program which provides a payment to the poor, either as a rebate or as a prebate, is another welfare plan. I can't understand any fiscal conservative that would buy into a tax system where the government has to supplement the income of a significant number of the public. If the "fair" tax were enacted, this feature is going to be an attractive feature for the progressives to have the government set a de facto minimum wage for the public. I can see this rebate amount rising to $ 10,000 or $ 15,000 which would in turn require the sale tax rate to be set much higher. This "fair" tax could become a luxury tax on the middle tax.

    I think the fair tax and the flat tax plans are trojan horses. The Republicans have totally screwed up the management of the federal budget. By discarding the current tax structure before the date of reckoning (2015 or thereabouts), they hope to push the burden of the rebalancing of the budget onto the middle class. The poor (or the bottom 40%) don't have the money.

      Bradly_60's avatar - disney37
      Atlantic Mine, Michigan
      United States
      Member #416
      June 23, 2002
      1614 Posts
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      Posted: August 14, 2005, 7:23 pm - IP Logged

      This is a very fun topic to debate.  Our current tax system is pathetic.  My family has always been considered a low income family.  (single mom three kids)  What I don't understand is how in the heck my mom has always gotten more money back then see has ever paid in in a tax year.  The rich pay almost a third of their income to taxes just to give the poor money they should not get.  I can see the lower income people not paying any taxes getting all the money back that they pay in.  But more than pay in.  What is up with that?  The fair tax is a step in the right direction.  We need something new.  And I agree only income from work should be taxed.  If you win in a lottery or on a gameshow you should not have to pay taxes on it.  I think that is ridiculous winners have to pay taxes.

      0-$20k 2.5%

      20k-50k 5.0%

      50k-100k 7.5%

      100k-250k 10.0%

      250k-1m 13.5%

      1m+ 19%

      I believe this would be an excellent way to reform the tax.  Everyone pays taxes but every gets less taken out of their paychecks than they do now.  And a lot less.

      Brad

        four4me's avatar - gate1
        MD
        United States
        Member #1701
        June 18, 2003
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        Posted: August 14, 2005, 7:38 pm - IP Logged
        Arnold Schwarzenegger said it as plain and as clear as one could say it on 60 minutes.  
        Quote: (for every dollar we take in the legislation spends $1.10) Un-quote.
         Now that's progress for you, taxation with representation.

          United States
          Member #17555
          June 22, 2005
          5582 Posts
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          Posted: August 14, 2005, 7:44 pm - IP Logged

          Does that mean that I'll have to start paying taxes? Especially on Lotteries. Go figure!!!!!


            United States
            Member #14188
            April 22, 2005
            21 Posts
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            Posted: August 14, 2005, 8:28 pm - IP Logged
            Holly Christ this group sounds Libertarian.  Now if I could just
            convince all of you to influence just one more person to your way
            of thinking, remembering we are the government  (we
            the people?) and if both of you will take up the AK-47 I will buy
            you, with amunition, we will convince the robbers in Washington
            that they are not the power of these United States. 
             
            Thomas Paine in his "Common Sense" influenced the early fathers
            to rise up against the King of England when they had
            questionable thoughts and just as sure we can do it too, if we will get off our soap boxes and do something. 
              Avatar
              New Mexico
              United States
              Member #12305
              March 10, 2005
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              Posted: August 14, 2005, 8:51 pm - IP Logged

              You just grab that AK and run right on ahead, jporter.  I might join you if things look good after the first volley or maybe sometime later.  Don't wait up.

              Meanwhile, do some convincing of your own.  I can't get real excited about convincing anyone about anything.  I'm too stupid, and they're mostly too stupid to know what they need convincing of.

              Jack

              Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

              It's about number behavior.

              Egos don't count.

               

              Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

               

                four4me's avatar - gate1
                MD
                United States
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                June 18, 2003
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                Posted: August 14, 2005, 9:07 pm - IP Logged
                American people as a whole have a hard enough time getting the janitor to clean the bathroom let alone get the government to listen to and act on their wishes. The last time a large contingent protested at the white house was when the truckers on Feb 22, 2000 protested the rising gas prices. Less than three days later they went whimpering home with their tails between their legs.
                  Avatar
                  Amarillo/Austin
                  United States
                  Member #1424
                  April 25, 2003
                  696 Posts
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                  Posted: August 14, 2005, 9:19 pm - IP Logged

                  I have a theory about taxes and it goes like this.  The government basically gets ALL of our money as it moves through the economy.  It goes like this: Mr. A pays a  tax when he deals with Mr. B.  Mr. B pays a tax when he deals with Mr. C and on down the row.  The only element of difference is the rate of taxation.  The 10% rate moves the tax down the line slower than a 25% rate.  The end result is the same.  The government gets all of our money at the end of the day. 

                  In other words, $1.00 becomes 90 cents.  90 cents becomes 80 cents and on through the economy until it is all gone.  Don't challenge the exact math on this because I am a lowly English major.  I believe the principle is valid.

                  Orangeman                                          Scared

                   

                    konane's avatar - wallace
                    Atlanta, GA
                    United States
                    Member #1265
                    March 13, 2003
                    3351 Posts
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                    Posted: August 14, 2005, 9:20 pm - IP Logged

                    Our Senators, Representatives, President and Vice President all have email addresses ... you don't have to go to Washington, call Washington long distance or spend the cost of a stamp to let your opinion be known.

                    Good luck to everyone!


                      United States
                      Member #17555
                      June 22, 2005
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                      Posted: August 14, 2005, 9:22 pm - IP Logged

                      You're preaching to the choir brotha.....

                       

                        Avatar
                        New Mexico
                        United States
                        Member #12305
                        March 10, 2005
                        2984 Posts
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                        Posted: August 14, 2005, 9:55 pm - IP Logged

                        I have a theory about taxes and it goes like this.  The government basically gets ALL of our money as it moves through the economy.  It goes like this: Mr. A pays a  tax when he deals with Mr. B.  Mr. B pays a tax when he deals with Mr. C and on down the row.  The only element of difference is the rate of taxation.  The 10% rate moves the tax down the line slower than a 25% rate.  The end result is the same.  The government gets all of our money at the end of the day. 

                        In other words, $1.00 becomes 90 cents.  90 cents becomes 80 cents and on through the economy until it is all gone.  Don't challenge the exact math on this because I am a lowly English major.  I believe the principle is valid.

                        Orangeman                                          Scared

                         

                        Sounds as though you've about summed it up.

                        Not bad for an English major.  Good job.

                        Jack

                        Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                        It's about number behavior.

                        Egos don't count.

                         

                        Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                         

                          Avatar
                          New Mexico
                          United States
                          Member #12305
                          March 10, 2005
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                          Posted: August 14, 2005, 10:10 pm - IP Logged

                          The real question is this:

                          Which US Government functions are the American public willing to demand be given up to curtail the spending of all that money? 

                          The fleet of new government automobiles every year?  A drop in the bucket. 

                          Say, 50-75 percent of military spending?  Gotta start minding our own business if we want to quit having an interminable series of wars shooting off weaponry it takes a hundred average taxpayers a year of taxes to buy one of.  But that's not anywhere nearly enough to even stabilize government spending.

                          Prisons?  We could quit imprisoning criminals who commit victimless crimes.  Another drop in the bucket.

                          Reduce all those Federally funded State and local copshops to something the locals can afford.  Another drop in the bucket.

                          Disaster assistance for all those hurricane victims on the Atlantic and Gulf coasts who insist on buying houses and rebuilding houses in hurricane floodprone areas?  Another drop.  People who live in areas of riverine flooding?  Another drop.  People who build where wildfires and mudslides and earthquakes are prone to hit?  Another drop.

                          Superhighways carrying freight that ought to be carried by trains, so the pavement's not constantly torn up by heavy truck traffic?  Another drop.

                          It all adds up, but Americans are going to have to demand to be deprived of a lot of US Government functions they now think of as their 'rights' before government spending can ever be  reduced and taxes on everything imaginable won't be necessary just to keep the deficit spending somewhere this side of the moon.

                          Jack

                           

                          Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                          It's about number behavior.

                          Egos don't count.

                           

                          Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                           

                            Avatar
                            New Mexico
                            United States
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                            March 10, 2005
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                            Posted: August 14, 2005, 10:29 pm - IP Logged

                            I see a lot of people on these threads singing the virtues of all the educational benefits accruing to educational systems from lottery contributions.

                            Think about it.  An education has always been available in this country for people who wanted it badly enough, even in the most difficult times and circumstances.

                            Who, precisely, are all these people who are getting the benefits of that funding?

                            What's wrong with parents taking responisibility for the cost of educating their own children?

                            Where's the evidence that kids (and young adults) are better educated today than they were when all these benefits, and all this funding and administrative cost wasn't there?

                            There's a lot of conventional wisdom, a lot of urban myth, a lot of pure brainwashing going on to help us understand what's supposed to be going on, as opposed to what is actually going on.

                            I came from what, today, would be considered a 'poor' family.  My parents never paid a penny toward any higher education for me.  The Veterans Administration paid out a couple of thousand bucks on the GI Bill over three years.  But I was the first person  in the history of my family to ever get a college degree.  I had to work hard for it, and it took longer than the usual one.

                            There's nothing to keep any American from doing that.  Lotteries, or no lotteries.

                            Jack

                            Absorb the good, ignore the bad, weigh the ugly.

                            It's about number behavior.

                            Egos don't count.

                             

                            Dedicated to the memory of Big Loooser

                             


                              United States
                              Member #17555
                              June 22, 2005
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                              Posted: August 14, 2005, 10:36 pm - IP Logged

                              The tangled web in which we weave. God help us all!!!!