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The Problem with Keno

Topic closed. 8 replies. Last post 11 years ago by pumpi76.

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Member #20982
August 29, 2005
4715 Posts
Posted: August 31, 2005, 10:00 am - IP Logged

Dear reader, i am a researcher in state lotteries and
i have been researching state lotteries for some
The problem with KENO [a lottery game that selects 20
random numbers out of 80] is that the odds of matching
the right numbers are too high, and the laws of wheeling
[mathematically arranging the numbers in a way to give
a person a greater chance] does not work on
for a pick 7 game [a game that selects 7 random
numbers out of 49] uses a vast size of numbers, now
imagine wheeling for keno, which is pick20.....The
advantage of Wheeling is that players make bigger
bets....This is good for a casino; more bets mean more
money thrown into the lottery jackpot......The problem
with Keno is that people make single bets when playing
it.....Because wheeling does not work for keno players
tend to make single bets.....Lotteries where numbers
can be wheeled means that players are going to make
bets in bigger quantities when playing them because
the numbers can be wheeled.....Example of lotteries
where numbers can be wheeled in a good way are pick3,
pick4 and pick5 [pick 3 is a lottery game that selects
3 numbers out of 10, while pick 4 selects 4 numbers
out of 10, pick 5 selects 5 random numbers out of 39
while pick6 selects 6 random numbers out of
for pick6 & pick7 a person would
have to play a huge amount of numbers.....Because
pick6 & pick7 uses huge amounts of bets for numbers to
be wheeled, people in turn make single bets instead of
bigger bets.....However if you where trying to create
lottery as hard as pick6, pick7 or keno, the best
thing to do is to create lotteries with fewer number
picked at once,in this case pick3 and pick4, but
with LONG even or uneven ranges....For example, a
pick4 where the numbers range EVENLY from 0 to 30 or
from 0 to 40 and to win the first prize a player would
have to match the numbers exactly the way they come
out[straight and not box]...The second lower prizes
would be won by those who match the numbers box
[either way the numbers play]....
If you were trying to create hard lotteries the best
thing to do is not to create lotteries that pick lots
of numbers at once like keno but to create lotteries
that pick fewer numbers at once but with long ranges
like for example pick3 & pick4 but with ranges where
the numbers go from 0 to 15 or from 0 to 20,
etc....This type of lotteries are much easier to wheel
because they pick fewer numbers at once.....
  The problem with lotteries that pick lots of numbers
at once like keno is that the numbers can not be
wheeled, and if they can be wheeled they use a vast,
vast amount of combinations to do it and because of
this players will make single bets instead of bets in
bigger quantities.....
  Not only that, you also need to know that lotteries
depending on their configurations carry certain weight
among them....For example lotteries that have numbers
combined with letters tend to be hard to crack....So
if you were trying to create a lottery easy to play
yet tough to crack all you have to do is add letters
to them...This would certainly guarantee for it to be
hard to crack...Letters however make lotteries also
hard to wheel, thus making players make single bets
when playing them....The reason is that there is no
software available so far that would wheel
combinations of numbers combined with letters....Such
software would take years to develop [currently it
takes 3 years to develop a lottery software] and would
be very unprofitable because they would be tailored
for a particular lottery and would not be mass
produced....Example of weight among lotteries; a
lottery that selects 4 numbers [a mixture of letters
and numbers] out of a range of 35 balls carries the
same degree of difficulty as a lottery that selects 5
numbers [numbers alone] out of a range of 39 balls,
despite that 4 number lotteries have less combinations
than 5 number lotteries[pick5]....Same thing, a
lottery that
selects 5 numbers, combined with letters, out of a
range of 35 carries the same degree of difficulty as
a lottery that selects 6 numbers out of a range of 44
all this despite that 6 numbers lotteries[pick6] have
a lot more combinations than 5 numbers
lotteries[pick5]......The answer of weight between
these lotteries is in the mixture of letters and
numbers....Because a lottery that have a mixture of
letters and numbers are difficult to wheel if not
impossible they would be hard to crack...And because
it would be hard to wheel, players are going to make
single bets instead of bigger bets......Here is a
website that demonstrates the odds of lotteries with
different selection number:

Not only that, most states have a pick3 lottery and it
attract huge crowds but why not create a pick2
lottery, a lottery that select two numbers....You
could make them select 2 numbers from a range for
example let us say 25 or 40.....Now from a range of 25
that's 625 combinations to choose from and if you
select a range of 40 that will be 1600 combinations to
choose from....The range is infinate.....A pick2 would
attract a lot of attention because it would be a
lottery better than the ones offered by the State.....


michael brown

    retxx's avatar - mrthumbs
    United States
    Member #48
    September 9, 2001
    3611 Posts
    Posted: August 31, 2005, 10:16 pm - IP Logged

    I like your theory on keno. All I would add is that I found to keep the odds in ones favor is to play as I do and that is to treat it as some fun and not try and beat house odds. I play just 3 numbers which only pays me $25.00 for 3 of 3 hit. This seems to favor me much better than going beyond that even paying $100.00 for a 4 of 4 hit of which increases the odds considerably in the house favor. After some research in my keno game i came up with playing these 3 numbers which seems to repeat enough times to keep me ahead for some time. They are 16-38-44. Call it luck or something else but if works don't knock it right. At least in Mass. anyway.Thanks for listening.

      RJOh's avatar - chipmunk
      United States
      Member #9
      March 24, 2001
      19895 Posts
      Posted: August 31, 2005, 10:58 pm - IP Logged

      pumpi76 says:

      Dear reader, i am a researcher in state lotteries and
      i have been researching state lotteries for some
      The problem with KENO [a lottery game that selects 20
      random numbers out of 80] is that the odds of matching
      the right numbers are too high

      Most lottery players come to the same conclusions about every lottery they played.


       * you don't need to buy more tickets, just buy a winning ticket * 
                   Evil Looking       

        United States
        Member #4267
        April 6, 2004
        36 Posts
        Posted: September 10, 2005, 1:02 am - IP Logged

        there is one easy way to 'cut the odds' in half; and that is to 'cut it in half'!  Here in GA., we have keno under the name 'quick cash".  What it boils down to is this; you can bet up to 10 (out of 20), and if your 10 #'s are  within that group of 20, you win.  Which means ,  on average, you'r going to have about 1o numbers in the top part; (1-40) & 10 numbers in the lower part.  (41-80)  Your odds  are literally 'cut in half'  and you could play sometype of wheel.  Simple, is'nt it? Or you could do the 'window' pain wheel; where, on average, you'r going to have groups of 5 numbers in the upper right or lower left part, as well as in the upper lest & lower rigth.  Like a window pane.  Choosing 7 digits is the best odds & value for your money. 


          Member #20982
          August 29, 2005
          4715 Posts
          Posted: September 10, 2005, 12:24 pm - IP Logged

          Guys, if you go to the following address: and type 20 numbers out of 80 you are going to see that:  http://www.easysurf.cc/lotodd.htm the odds are really high, extremely high...This website is a lottery odd calculator...YOu put how many balls are drawn from your particular lottery and you put how many balls in total there are in that particular lottery and it will give you the odds...

          Also, to wheel 7 numbers it requires lots and lots of combinations, now imagine 10, it will require a vast amount of combinations to wheel, even if is a balanced wheel....No matter how you look at it, it has ridiculously too many combinations...


          michael brown

            Bradly_60's avatar - disney37
            Atlantic Mine, Michigan
            United States
            Member #416
            June 23, 2002
            1614 Posts
            Posted: September 10, 2005, 1:15 pm - IP Logged

            When playing keno games try to play the so called 4-spot and 7 spots games.  Both of those games usually have the best odds of winning(1 in 4).  They also have the better prize structure.  Since Michigan has introduced Club Keno that is all I usually play.  The odds range from the 1 in 4 to 1 in 16. 



              United States
              Member #1826
              July 11, 2003
              2645 Posts
              Posted: September 10, 2005, 2:27 pm - IP Logged

              All "wheeling" does is lower the odds, which is a natural consequence of buying more combinations.

              And Keno does not allow players to pick 20 numbers. You can only pick up to 10, but you can pick less than that. They always draw 20 numbers. So, you pick 10, they draw 20.

              And there are no Pick 7 games in the United States at this time, the only ones I know of are Canada's Super 7 and Norway's Lotto.

              And there are plenty of pick-2 games. They're just in disguise as pair plays, which are not available in GA, so that probably how you suggested a pick-2 game.

              (insert signature here)


                United States
                Member #119
                February 19, 2002
                527 Posts
                Posted: September 10, 2005, 3:08 pm - IP Logged

                As I've mentioned at LP before, first comes number selection, THEN comes wheeling.  HOW you select your numbers to put in the wheel is key! 

                I've also mentioned before, I've won 4/6 numbers four times in the past 12-16 months using number selection strategy, not wheeling.

                I have been studying a Keno game for 2 months now.  For some to most of the next 30 days I will play it for free.  And some of the time I will use a wheel which I recently ordered and am waiting to receive.

                Based on what I have learned about Keno from the software I use, I intend to apply some of its (& my own!) strategies to win.  When I play for free, I will post my results.  Heck, when I spend money I will post my results as well!  I'm very eager to test the strategies I've been devising based on how I've studied the game and trust me when I tell you that I have spent HOURS studying!

                So I will let you know IF I win and keep on winning (but will not share my strategies because then the state I'm playing in will change the darn number field and besides,  I've worked too hard on them and I think I deserve to make some money back from all the money I've paid for various tickets the last few years! 


                So now is the test!  I'm excited, so we'll see what happens.  By the way, for what it's worth, I'll play Keno anyday over PB or MM.  Chasing zillions is nice, and SOMETIMES I do it, but I'd rather chase likelihood.



                  Member #20982
                  August 29, 2005
                  4715 Posts
                  Posted: September 10, 2005, 5:35 pm - IP Logged

                  Dear Jimmy there are no Pick7 here in the united states but i wanted to remind you that in Maine the megabucks uses 6 numbers plus the bonus ball making it seven numbers: http://www.mainelottery.com/games/megabucks.shtml  ...Even though it may not be considered a pick7 it does selects 7 numbers if you think about it...

                  michael brown