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Hoosier Lottery...worse than you thought!

Topic closed. 11 replies. Last post 11 years ago by LOTTOMIKE.

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Indiana
United States
Member #29196
December 29, 2005
280 Posts
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Posted: December 29, 2005, 1:38 pm - IP Logged

Greetings friends and neighbors, boys and girls, moms and dads and anyone I may have omitted.  Allow me to introduce myself:

My name is Jim.  I'm a lottery junkie from Indiana. I've been a lurker here for quite sometime and I finally decided to register.  Before I begin my diatribe let me first say a special hello to a few of the folks I have enjoyed reading here at Lottery Post.  A special hello to Todd, Tenaj, Cash Only, Sir Brad, Lotto Mike and to my fellow Hoosiers Loosing Jeff and my namesake Jim.  (You 2 guys will want to pay attention to this.  You'll love it!)  And I also want to say a special word to a long time Lottery Post member I have especially enjoyed reading:

Preach on Brother Chewie!  Preach on!

Let's get right to it.  I've seen the polls and read the posts here on Lottery Post about the best and worst state lotteries.  Some of you are critical of your state's respective lotteries and consider them to be the worst in the country.  Well, just be thankful you don't live in Indiana.  Our lottery is hands down the worst in World!

I have been critical of the Hoosier Lottery for some time now and I have taken the time to call them and write them and express my concerns to them.  While I don't believe my efforts have been as fruitful as those of my fellow Hoosiers (Jim and Jeff) they have produced some interesting results and revelations.  Recently I had a series of e-mail exchanges with the Executive Director of the Hoosier Lottery, Esther Q. Schneider and some of you might find the results interesting.

In November of this year, (after several fruitless phone calls) I wrote the Hoosier Lottery to express my concerns regarding the integrity (or more appropriately the lack thereof) of the Hoosier Lottery.  My main concern was of course the computerized RNG used to pick the winning numbers along with the secretive nature of the drawings.  (The drawings are not televised and are conducted in a "closed" security room at the Hoosier Lottery.)  I had several other complaints as well ranging from the disclaimer in the back of Hoosier Lottery tickets requiring winners to participate in press conferences, media and public relations interviews, agreeing to allow the Hoosier Lottery "lifetime" rights to use their picture and comments in promotions, to poor prize payouts, rigged scratch off games and the disproportionate number of winners from Marion County (the seat of the State Capital).  The upshot of it all was I told them I had come to  believe the Hoosier Lottery was rigged and that I would no lnger play.  (NOTE: I sent them several links to stories and remarks posted here at Lottery Post.  Much to my surprise they were completely unaware of anything that had ever been said here [and seemed completely stunned by my remarks that the Hoosier Lottery is often considered to be the most crooked and corrupt Lottery in the country] and claimed they didn't even know the site existed.)

I was quite surprised to receive a reply form the Executive director of the Hoosier Lottery herself.  It was rather short and said simply that she had read my e-mail and would like to reply.  She said she had several pages of documentation to attach and asked if I would provide my mailing address so she sould send them to me.  I readily agreed and thanked her for her her time and concern in the matter.  Do I have to tell you that over a month went by and I recieved absolutely nothing from the Hoosier Lottery.

The night of the Christmas Eve Hoosier Lottery drawing I went to Hoosier Lottery website to check my numbers.  (Yes, despite saying I would no longer play I broke down and bought a few tickets.)  As Loosing Jeff has pointed out here the results were not posted.  but more disturbing than that was the information I found posted under the game section of the website.  The Hoosier Lottery has made some significant changes to the way the jackpot prize is paid out and they (in their infinite wisdom) chose not to make a public announcement that they were doing so.

The Hoosier Lottery has not been won since July 27th (I think that's the correct date).  In the 5 months and 47 draws it has rolled over it has reached $23 million and is reported to be the 5th largest jackpot in the history of the Hoosier Lottery.  Now this in itself concerns me.  The Hoosier Lottery is a straight pick 6 from a field of 48 and it seems incredible to me that it could roll over 46 times (now 47) without a winner.  Remarks I have read from different "experts" put the odds of this happening of somewhere between 1 in 2.5 to over 1 in 3 Billion! 

Previously the rules for the Hoosier Lottery have stated that the jackpot is paid as a 25 year annuity or in a one time lump sum cash value that is the actual amount of cash accumlated in the jackpot pool.  The cahs value was guranteed to be somewhere between 40% to 50% of the advertised annuity value.  The last Hoosier Lottery winner won an advertised prize of $10.5 million and cashed out at something around $4.6 million (before taxes).  that worked out to something like 42% or 43% (in round numbers).

But when nobody was looking over the Christmas Holiday the Hoosier Lottery changed the payout.  The annuity jackpot prize is now paid over 30 years!  fice years have been added to the term of the annuity and the jackpot amount has not changed.  There is no increase in the jackpot amount and no adjustment for inflation.  Just an increase in the term of the annuity and most importantly no public announcement or explanation is offered.

Furthermore, the Hoosier Lottery has eliminated any formula or reference the cash value amount.  The language referring to the actual amount of cash accumulated had been eliminated as well as the gurantee of 40% to 50% of the advertised annuity value.

And something else of interest also happened.  The Hoosier Lottery changed the rules regarding a winner making a decision as to whether they want the annuity or the cash.  The new rules now state that if the winner does not make a choice then they will be paid (an unspecified) one time lump sum.  (This may bring a warm fuzzy feeling to the heart of Cash Only but given the nature of the Hoosier Lottery it is my belief that this was done because poor sales cannot support the inflated annuity value of the advertised jackpot and by eliminating any reference to the amount of cash to be paid they can now simply pay whatever they they choose to pay.)

NOTE: It is important for you all to understand the this has been done by the Hoosier Lottery before.  Under the old rules the annuity jackpot was set at $1 million and the cash value was set at $500,000 for the first draw.  However, earlier this year someone won a hoosier Lottery jackpot of $1 million and instead of paying him the guranteed $500,000 the Hoosier lottery paid him $400,000.  This information was posted on their web site.

So, Uncle Jim, what does this have to do with the Executive Director you ask?  Well, when I saw this i fired off an e-mail to the Executive director.  And I'm afraid I wasn't very nice.  I chided her for not responding to my previous e-mail and not sending me the information she had promised to send.  I blasted her for changing the rules of the game without making a public announcement or offering an explanation was to why the changes were made.  I complained bitterly about the results not being posted in a timely fashion on the website and then being posted incorrectly.  (The jackpot was posted at $25 million and later revised down to $23 million.)  I told her attitude of arrogance and indeference towards the players was utterly contemptable and told her I intended to contact my state legislators and insist on serious lottery reform.

Her reply; she claimed to have never received the e-mail containing my address and said she would look into what happend with regard to her not receiving it.  She also said she was very disturbed by the hostile tone of my e-mail but promised me I would receive her information in the mail within one week.

My reply; I told her my e-mail was sitting in my sent box and shown as delevered and I had not received anything from any postmaster saying it was never delivered.  I then asked her a series of very specific questions regarding the changes; why were they made, why the public was not informed, what is the new cash value, how is it determined?  Et cetra, et ctera...

She has of course chosen not to answer any of my questions. 

In my anger I'm afraid my sarcastic nature got the better of me and I suggested that the Hoosier Lottery change their slogan to something more appropriate than the current:

Guided by benchmarks of integrity and profitability, the Hoosier Lottery has returned 2.5 billion to the state of Indiana since 1989 to lower driver's license costs, supplement firefighter, policemen, and teacher's pensions and much more

to:

Setting new standards in corruption and deceit, the Hoosier Lottery has scammed it's players out of more than 2.5 billion and lined the pockets of it's friends and neighbors while providing the politicians of this state with a never ending source of revenue. 

I bet that warmed her right up! 

So there you have it.  The latest trick form what I consider to be the most crooked and corrupt lottery in the world.  I'll be interested in hearing the opinions of Lottery Post members as to whether or not they think changing the the prize payout without public public announcement or explanation...especially in the middle fo a huge jackpot run...is as dirty a trick as I think it is or if you all think Uncle Jim needs to go back to the doctor and have them increase his meds.

ttfn,

Jim

PS As I am looking forward to posting here I will try in the future not to be so long winded. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Money frees you from doing things you dislike.  Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy.  - Groucho Marx

    Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
    Chief Bottle Washer
    New Jersey
    United States
    Member #1
    May 31, 2000
    23262 Posts
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    Posted: December 29, 2005, 3:01 pm - IP Logged

    Welcome to Lottery Post, Jim.  Glad to see another Hoosier watchdog join the ranks.  Please keep us informed of what you find out.

    Cheers

     

    Check the State Lottery Report Card
    What grade did your lottery earn?

     

    Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
    Help eliminate computerized drawings!


      United States
      Member #379
      June 5, 2002
      11296 Posts
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      Posted: December 29, 2005, 3:35 pm - IP Logged

      Thanx for mentioning me at least twice, UJ. At least Hoosier Lotto continues to have a cash option, although I don't care for computerized draws either.

        Zoozie's avatar - back
        South Fort Myers
        United States
        Member #26835
        November 23, 2005
        454 Posts
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        Posted: December 29, 2005, 3:47 pm - IP Logged

        I myself live in Indiana and do NOT play the lottery here... for exactly the reasons above, plus I am extremely p*ssed when I deliver my children to school each year and have a tremendous HIGH cost to "rent" their school books, while our property taxes increase to offset the cost of having a school in our area.

        Not only is the money NOT flowing into our education system, but we have gambling boats down here also - where are those billions of dollars going?  I can tell you where they are NOT going!

        So I play online and play other states!  :)  I actually laugh when I see people purchasing lottery tickets here at the stores.  One thing you do not see is people standing in long lines waiting to purchase tickets.

        Welcome Jim!

         

        Zoozie  Dance

         

        "Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve"
        Napoleon Hill

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          Columbia City, Indiana
          United States
          Member #2978
          December 9, 2003
          381 Posts
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          Posted: December 29, 2005, 4:47 pm - IP Logged

          Welcome to LP.com, Uncle Jim, and thanks for an informative post.

          Here's something you might find interesting:

          IC 4-30-3-5  Commission Studies

          Sec. 5  The Commission shall make a continuous study of the following:

          (1)  The lottery, in order to ascertain any amendments necessary to this article, or to rules adopted under this article that could prevent any abuses in the administration of the lottery.

          (2)  The operation and administration of similar lottery laws in other states and of federal laws that may affect the lottery.

          (3)  The reaction of the public to existing and potential features of the lottery.

           

          I wrote to Ms. Janna Shisler, Hoosier Lottery's legal counsel, over a year ago, asking for copies of these studies. I have yet to receive a reply, and I doubt that I ever will, since they probably don't exist.

          The Hoosier Lottery is above the law, and is being protected by our governor, state lawmakers and attorney general. "My Man Mitch" wrote back, thanked me for expressing my concerns about the Hoosier Lottery and promised he would "give the matter his utmost attention." Our attorney General wrote and told us that, if any wrongdoing were proven, his office would be defending the crooked lottery officials. State Representatives Robert Alderman, Robert Cherry and Republican Chief-of-Staff Leslie Davis Heiner (who sat in for Republican House Leader Brian Bosma) have all seen the evidence we've collected against the Hoosier Lottery. Alderman's reaction was, "We can take care of this quietly; no one needs to lose his job or go to jail." The other two were more concerned with learning how much we knew about the scratch-off ticket scandal, which hadn't yet become public knowledge, although they did agree our evidence was damning. Representative Tiny Adams was also notified, after pretending to be an advocate for integrity in state agencies. He never replied.

          Since the Hoosier Lottery is a privately-held corporation, I took the liberty of sending copies of selected pages from our file to the U. S. Securities and Exchange Commission. I sent that off around two years ago, but haven't heard from them, either.

          We've made four attempts to inform the FBI, all without success. They won't even give us the time to show them what we have, despite the claim by three different attorneys that our evidence is "probably sufficient to convict on at least three RICO predicates." The attorneys won't file the case, though, because they say "the statehouse can make it very difficult for us to make a living."

          The Marion County Grand Jury investigators, the Marion County prosecutor, Carl Brizzi and the Indiana State Police are all aware of what the Hoosier Lottery is doing. I know they're aware of it because LosingJeff and I have told them about it. They don't want our evidence; they don't even want us to tell them about it. The State Police are getting their pension fund restored via Hoosier Lottery revenues, so how aggressively could we expect them to pursue this investigation?

          None of the television news magazines were interested - 60 Minutes, 48 Hours, MSNBC Investigates and so on and on... We even wrote to Oprah Winfrey and Ralph Nader's consumer advocacy group! We have a list of over fifty state and federal agencies and individuals we've contacted about this corrupt agency.

          No one is going to help us with this. The teams have been chosen and, like it or not, it wound up being us - the players - against them - everybody else. 

          The standard idea of letting things go until the players finally get their fill and stop playing isn't going to work this time. Circumstances being what they are, the end result would be that the lawmakers and lottery officials would agree that the people of Indiana have simply lost interest in their state lottery, so it must be shut down in order to save money, and everyone walks away with the millions they stole, so nobody loses, see? The Marion County Grand Jury will then go through the motions of conducting an investigation, the outcome of which will be predictably "inconclusive," as it was with their inquiry of the bankrupted Build Indiana Fund. 

          I have no idea when or how these crooks will be caught, but LosingJeff and I aren't going to quit until we find a way to expose them. We could certainly use your help, Uncle Jim, if you'd care to work with us. Please send me a PM so we can exchange email and telephone info. 

          Come, Pinky; we must prepare for tomorrow night...

          Jim

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            United States
            Member #1826
            July 11, 2003
            2645 Posts
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            Posted: December 29, 2005, 5:11 pm - IP Logged

            Good to have someone continuing the fight against corruption is lotteries. But at the same time, make sure to praise lotteries that do things right. If you don't, you might inadvertantly make all lotteries look bad.

            (insert signature here)

              LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
              Tennessee
              United States
              Member #7853
              October 15, 2004
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              Posted: December 29, 2005, 5:21 pm - IP Logged

              all its going to take is indiana lottery officials making a mistake at the wrong moment and their whole world is going to come crashing down.i believe the guilty eventually always pay.can't get away with this forever.their time is gonna come......and it won't be pretty.


                United States
                Member #379
                June 5, 2002
                11296 Posts
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                Posted: December 29, 2005, 5:23 pm - IP Logged

                all its going to take is indiana lottery officials making a mistake at the wrong moment and their whole world is going to come crashing down.i believe the guilty eventually always pay.can't get away with this forever.their time is gonna come......and it won't be pretty.

                Would it happen if the same pick-3 is drawn three consecutive times like in Kansas?

                  LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                  Tennessee
                  United States
                  Member #7853
                  October 15, 2004
                  11338 Posts
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                  Posted: December 29, 2005, 5:26 pm - IP Logged

                  all its going to take is indiana lottery officials making a mistake at the wrong moment and their whole world is going to come crashing down.i believe the guilty eventually always pay.can't get away with this forever.their time is gonna come......and it won't be pretty.

                  Would it happen if the same pick-3 is drawn three consecutive times like in Kansas?

                  i'd love to see that happen.lol.they would be ripped to shreds.....no actually i'd love to see a glitch where 300 or 400 people all have the winning indiana jackpot lotto numbers.

                    LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                    Tennessee
                    United States
                    Member #7853
                    October 15, 2004
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                    Posted: December 29, 2005, 5:27 pm - IP Logged

                    jim i'm with you in your fight for a fair state lottery!!!!!


                    hang in there.......

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                      Indiana
                      United States
                      Member #29196
                      December 29, 2005
                      280 Posts
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                      Posted: December 30, 2005, 12:46 am - IP Logged

                      I would like to thank everyone here for the warm reception!

                       

                      @Cash Only:

                      Yes, at least Indiana has a cash option but what is it?  That's the point!  They will not tell you what it is.  They will not commit to anything other than saying it exists.  What's the big secret?  I mean after all these people are running a lottery and it is not unreasonable for a player to ask for the value of the cash option and to get a straight answer.  (BTW...you're welcome.)

                      @Zoozie: 

                      Well, I have no children, and my property taxes have tripled in the last 2 years and most of that goes to pay for local schools.  And we have a lot of gambling boats here in northwest Indiana.  So I agree...where does all the money go?  Well stay tuned because I have gathered some information on how the money is distributed...or perhaps I should say where.  By the way I have researched the subject and there is very little mention in any state documents about lottery funds going to education.  In fact the language I found says the state legislators have the authority to spend it as they see fit.  If you can believe the propaganda put out by the Hoosier Lottery the biggest perchantage of the money has gone to lower the cost of liscense plates in Indiana.  Next comes the teachers retirement fund, then Public School tuition and way down on the list is school technology.  The breakdown of the top 3 items looks like this:

                      $794,300,000 has gone to lower the cost of license plates.

                      $477,600,000 has gone to the teacher pension fund.

                      $293,200,000 has gone to public school tuition costs. 

                      and way down on the list at a paltry $99,000,000 is the school technology fund.  (Whatever that is?)

                      Now accounting my not be my strongest subject but $794,300,000 sounds like a lot of money to spend on lowering the cost of license plates.  Well at least it does to me.  I mean damn!  Aren't those things made by the convicts in the Michigan city pen?

                      @jim695:

                      I have admired the efforts you and Loosing Jeff have made ever since I first started reading this board.  My study may have differed a bit from yours in that I tried to focus on the money.  Where it went, who got it et cetra.  I came to the conclusion that nobody in Marion county is going to do a damn thing and the reason is quite simple.  The vast bulk of Hoosier Lottery money goes to Marion County.  (For those of you unfamilar with Indiana geography Marion County is home to the City of Indianapolis, seat of the state Capital and home to the Hoosier Lottery.)  Take a look at this:

                      Since the inception of the Hoosier Lottery in 1989 and it's original incarnation "Lotto Cash" there have been a total of 32 jackpot winners from Marion County.  According to the latest census figures marion County has a population of approximately 863,000 people.

                      Now compare that to the entire Northwest Indiana Region; Lake, Porter, LaPorte, St Joseph, Elkhart, Newton, Jasper, Starke, Pulaski, White, Cass, Fulton, and Marshall counties...a geographic area that is approximately 15 times the size of Marion county with a population of approximately 1,328,000 people and how many winers do you find?  A grand total of 18.  There are almost half again as many peope in the Northwest part of the state spread out over a vastly larger geographic area and yet there are almost twice as many jackpot winners from the state capital.  And if you look at scratch off contest winners the numbers are even larger.  By the way this comparison will hold true for almost geographic are of the state including Tippecanoe and Allen counties.  It is a simple fact that the majority of Hoosier Lottery winners come from Marion County. 

                      Now the Hoosier Lottery will tell you that this is because the sales of lottery tickets is greater in Marion County than anywhere else in the state.  That may be true.  But getting sales figures from the Hoosier Lottery is not an easy task.  Remember a few years ago the Indianapolis Star had to file suit against the Hoosier Lottery to get them to release them.

                      And if you look at how the money from the Hoosier Lottery is distributed you will see that once again Marion County gets the lion's share.  More than $239,993,236 has gone to Marion County.  Compare that to the next largest recipient, Lake County at $141,877,955.  And just for kicks look at Allen County (Fort Wayne) and it's $81,219,005 or Tippecanoe County (Lafayette) total of $30,614,856 and it's easy to see that the Hosier Lottery definitely believes that charity begins at home.

                      I mean no offense when I say this, but given the distribution of Hoosier Lottery winners and funds, why in the world would anyone in Marion want to rock the boat?

                      And you are quite correct when you say that waiting for people to get fed up is not working.  I work for a retailer who sells lottery tickets and i can tell you that the biggest ally the Hoosier Lottery has are the Hoosiers themselves.  The vast bulk of people I talk to either believe the Hoosier Lottery is corrupt and refuse to play or are absolutely clueless about what is really going on.  I have talked to dozens of people who don't even know the Hoosier lottery uses a computerized RNG to pick numbers!  These people think the Hoosier Lottery still uses a ball machine!  I've even talked to people who think the drawings are still televised! 

                      Unbelievable!

                      More to follow.

                      ttfn,

                      Jim  

                       

                       

                       

                       


                      Money frees you from doing things you dislike.  Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy.  - Groucho Marx

                        LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
                        Tennessee
                        United States
                        Member #7853
                        October 15, 2004
                        11338 Posts
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                        Posted: December 30, 2005, 4:35 am - IP Logged

                        i can't wait for the next bit of news you post uncle jim.those scavengers who call themselves lottery officials in indiana have their days numbered.........