Welcome Guest
Log In | Register )
You last visited January 18, 2017, 9:18 pm
All times shown are
Eastern Time (GMT-5:00)

MA screwing pick 4 players

Topic closed. 8 replies. Last post 11 years ago by NewClub.

Page 1 of 1
PrintE-mailLink
Avatar
MA
United States
Member #11452
February 14, 2005
74 Posts
Offline
Posted: March 27, 2006, 1:01 pm - IP Logged

The MA Numbers game claims to be "a 60% pari-mutuel game" which should mean that the prize for an exact 4 match should flucuate, but average out to $6000.  Actually, they pay less than $5000 on average.

 I've studied the payoff values (you gan get historical data at http://www.masslottery.com/games/winningnumbers.html ), and it turns out they always make the match 4 pay 7.14 times what the match 3 (first 3 or last 3) pays.  So if the exact 4 pays $5000, the exact 3 pays $700.

This means that the match 4 players are subsidising the match 3 players.  And it means MA pick 3 is possibly the best daily number in the country (kind of, but I'll get to that).  MA's payback ratio on match 4 is similar to many states that have a 50% ratio.  But this is still a kind of strange way of doing things.

 Except for one thing:  taxes.  You get a W2 for any prize you win over $600.  By beefing up the exact 3 prizes, MA pretty much ensures that a match 3 exact hit on a $1 bet will get reported on taxes.  (Note to the tax people who read this: I report ALL of my wins.  I know that people gat nailed if they report too many big wins and no small ones, so I keep records.)  The average pick 3 player in MA probably has enough losses over the course of the year to offset their gambling winnings over the course of a year, but that only works on federal taxes; MA is greedy and won't let you deduct losses.

Anyway, this means that if you're into winning the lottery and not paying taxes on your winnings, you should play 25 or 50 cent bets on the MA pick 3. 

    LOTTOMIKE's avatar - Lottery-063.jpg
    Tennessee
    United States
    Member #7853
    October 15, 2004
    11338 Posts
    Online
    Posted: March 27, 2006, 1:03 pm - IP Logged

    does sound kind of like people are being screwed....

      masslottery's avatar - dragon eye.jpg

      United States
      Member #34117
      February 28, 2006
      757 Posts
      Offline
      Posted: March 27, 2006, 1:12 pm - IP Logged

      the prize levels drops depending on how many players hit a certain number but i have notice when a 3 comes in to play the payout is bad like $3700 our less . thats why i only play pick 3 50cents any order our 50 exc and i'll throw a couple of 50 cents combo and mass is a higher paying state thats why its so hard to hit but when you do hit $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ tax free if you played 50 cents and not the dollar. and one more thing if you hit over $600 you get double tax here first they taxyou when you cash1099, No Pity! and its taxable income at years end ................

       

        Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
        Chief Bottle Washer
        New Jersey
        United States
        Member #1
        May 31, 2000
        23349 Posts
        Offline
        Posted: March 27, 2006, 1:26 pm - IP Logged

        A "60% game" does not mean that the top prize should be $6000.  It means that 60% of the money collected is returned in the form of prizes.  So, that 60% is spread among all the prize levels.

        I don't agree that the MA Lottery is "screwing Pick 4 players".

         

        Check the State Lottery Report Card
        What grade did your lottery earn?

         

        Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
        Help eliminate computerized drawings!

          masslottery's avatar - dragon eye.jpg

          United States
          Member #34117
          February 28, 2006
          757 Posts
          Offline
          Posted: March 27, 2006, 1:30 pm - IP Logged

          A "60% game" does not mean that the top prize should be $6000.  It means that 60% of the money collected is returned in the form of prizes.  So, that 60% is spread among all the prize levels.

          I don't agree that the MA Lottery is "screwing Pick 4 players".

           do you think its right to get double tax on winnings above 600 ?What?

            Todd's avatar - Cylon 2.gif
            Chief Bottle Washer
            New Jersey
            United States
            Member #1
            May 31, 2000
            23349 Posts
            Offline
            Posted: March 27, 2006, 6:34 pm - IP Logged

            Most states happen to tax lottery winnings over $600, and everybody is subject to federal tax.  Do I think it's right?  I'm not sure how what I think is going to help anyone, because no state government is going to repeal a tax.

            That's why I can never understand these people who fight tax cuts.  When there is an opportunity to get rid of some taxes, go with it, don't fight it, and don't believe the morons who say stupid things like, "tax cuts for the rich."

             

            Check the State Lottery Report Card
            What grade did your lottery earn?

             

            Sign the Petition for True Lottery Drawings
            Help eliminate computerized drawings!

              Avatar
              MA
              United States
              Member #11452
              February 14, 2005
              74 Posts
              Offline
              Posted: March 30, 2006, 4:33 pm - IP Logged

              A "60% game" does not mean that the top prize should be $6000.  It means that 60% of the money collected is returned in the form of prizes.  So, that 60% is spread among all the prize levels.

              I don't agree that the MA Lottery is "screwing Pick 4 players".

              It absolutely IS screwing Pick 4 players. 60% of the money collected in total for The Numbers Game is paid out in prizes, yes. But basically this amounts to 50% of the pick four money collected goes to pick four prizes, 60% of the pick three money collected goes to pick three prizes, and 10% of the pick four money collected goes to pick three prizes.

              Most states separate their pick three and pick four games. MA gets away with what it does because because they call both games "the numbers game" and only pick one number! In reality, PICK 3 AND PICK 4 ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE GAMES!!!

              Think about it this way: would it be fair to call it a 60% game if 50% of the money people spent went to that game and 10% went to people who played pick 3 in another state? Or funded prizes for scratch tickets? Or increased the MM jackpot? Of course not! A 60% game means that 60% of the money collected goes to prizes in THAT GAME. Why not just say that 90% of the money collected goes to prizes, because the "local aid" money that is the state's profit is a prize shared by everyone in the state?!?!?

              I've worked in a store selling lottery tickets for several years. Every regular player plays EITHER pick 4 OR pick 3. Maybe 1% of the people play both. It's NOT fair to call them the same game.

                Avatar
                MA
                United States
                Member #11452
                February 14, 2005
                74 Posts
                Offline
                Posted: March 30, 2006, 4:38 pm - IP Logged

                the prize levels drops depending on how many players hit a certain number but i have notice when a 3 comes in to play the payout is bad like $3700 our less . thats why i only play pick 3 50cents any order our 50 exc and i'll throw a couple of 50 cents combo and mass is a higher paying state thats why its so hard to hit but when you do hit $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ tax free if you played 50 cents and not the dollar. and one more thing if you hit over $600 you get double tax here first they taxyou when you cash1099, No Pity! and its taxable income at years end ................

                 

                It's not really double taxed, it's taxed at the regular rate. You get a tax credit for whatever's withheld when you get your w-2g. You do wind up paying taxes twice if your win is less than $5k: 5% state tax when you get your check, and then federal tax when you file your taxes later.

                  Avatar

                  United States
                  Member #12495
                  March 15, 2005
                  76 Posts
                  Offline
                  Posted: March 31, 2006, 8:58 am - IP Logged

                  Most states happen to tax lottery winnings over $600, and everybody is subject to federal tax.  Do I think it's right?  I'm not sure how what I think is going to help anyone, because no state government is going to repeal a tax.

                  That's why I can never understand these people who fight tax cuts.  When there is an opportunity to get rid of some taxes, go with it, don't fight it, and don't believe the morons who say stupid things like, "tax cuts for the rich."

                  Really? State only tax winning over $600? I thought all winning are subject to state income tax. In addition, some states like MA wouldn't allow you deduct your lost, which means if you win $100 and lose $100, you pay tax for $100 on actual winning nothing.

                  I think statement like "tax cuts for the rich" is reasonable.  Goverment needs to spend money no matter where tax come from. So if one part of tax is cut, goverment would come up with some other ways to tax people later. That changes the profile about who pays how much. I heard right now social security have three year surplus, which means on paper, SSA would still be able to pay SS benefit for three years without collecting a penny. But, those money are in the format of goverment bond. So if SSA really want to spend those money, goverment has to impose tax on people in order to give money back to SSA. Well, so much for paying SS benefit for three years without collecting a penny; that money actually does not exist at all. Goverment is like Enron, they hide their debt until the debt is due; goverment is worth than Enron, since they wouldn't collapse, they just tax more on people. Tax cut is shuffling money, tax cut is money laundry. Only spending cut is for real.

                  Right now we are in a good shape on our tax rate. Just wait for 20 more years, our sons and daughters would have to pay double of what we pay.