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Legal question?

Topic closed. 36 replies. Last post 10 years ago by justxploring.

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fast eddie's avatar - lasvegas2
Chicago,IL.
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Posted: July 21, 2006, 7:23 am - IP Logged

Let's say I win a large amount of money in the lottery (this post to GOD's ears) and give a nice amount to a close friend of mine who is married but that could change at any minute. My question is can he put the money somewhere where he is only entitled to it if the end up getting divorced or does half the money I gave him become hers no matter what? Just curious . Thanks

"Money won is twice as sweet as money earned"

    LOTTOMIKE's avatar - cash money.jpg
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    Posted: July 21, 2006, 7:34 am - IP Logged

    if he has the money and they are still married she is entitled to half.as long as they are married its that way even if they are seperated but still married.i'd wait until he is officially divorced before i'd let money change hands.

      Jorli D's avatar - nw saucyelf2.jpg
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      Posted: July 21, 2006, 10:14 am - IP Logged

      A legal separation would bar the wife from recieving the money you give your friend in some circumstances.  If the wife knows about it, and their are  minor children involved, a judge might find that money to be necessary to finance the well being of the children. But Eddie, this whole thing could backfire, because if you are giving your friend this money and it is taxable, your friendship could be on the line when the question becomes which of you will pay the gift tax?

        MillionsWanted's avatar - 24Qa6LT

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        Posted: July 21, 2006, 10:42 am - IP Logged

        If you know they're about to separate, wait until it's finished and give him the money then.

          BaristaExpress's avatar - BaristaExpressMX zpsfb0d8b5d.png
          Magnolia, Delaware
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          Posted: July 21, 2006, 10:55 am - IP Logged

          The gift tax only comes into effect when the amount is 10k or above. So anything below that amount is not taxable, unless you choose to report it to the IRS as income or a gift! But who would do such a thing? Never mind what I just said, some people are just to honest with the government for their own good! The Gift Taxes that are due are the sole responsibility of the person who is giving the gift, not the one who receives the gift. Oh one more thing, you can set up a trust for anyone you wish and stay as the administrator of said trust, that way they don't get any money unless you OK the transaction. You see your friends wife could know about the trust but she can't touch it, not even the court system! Why you ask, well it's the simple fact that your friend isn't the administrator of the trust, you are! But it will be considered by the court as expendable income, so they will just add it to what he can afford to pay in alimony or child support! Alimony isn't enforceable in any state, but child support is! So in the long run it would be best to keep the money until the divorce is finial.

          Keep dreaming the impossible dream, it just may come true! Thumbs Up

            Jorli D's avatar - nw saucyelf2.jpg
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            Posted: July 21, 2006, 11:58 am - IP Logged

            The gift tax only comes into effect when the amount is 10k or above. So anything below that amount is not taxable, unless you choose to report it to the IRS as income or a gift! But who would do such a thing? Never mind what I just said, some people are just to honest with the government for their own good! The Gift Taxes that are due are the sole responsibility of the person who is giving the gift, not the one who receives the gift. Oh one more thing, you can set up a trust for anyone you wish and stay as the administrator of said trust, that way they don't get any money unless you OK the transaction. You see your friends wife could know about the trust but she can't touch it, not even the court system! Why you ask, well it's the simple fact that your friend isn't the administrator of the trust, you are! But it will be considered by the court as expendable income, so they will just add it to what he can afford to pay in alimony or child support! Alimony isn't enforceable in any state, but child support is! So in the long run it would be best to keep the money until the divorce is finial.

            A decent, moral person would report it to the IRS, that's who. Also, there are circumstances where the donee can agree to pay the gift tax, so it is not correct the donor is solely responsible for this tax.

              Blackie's avatar - Norfolk 20Sunrise%20Nov%2016.jpg
              Norfolk , Va
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              Posted: July 21, 2006, 12:05 pm - IP Logged

              Just a thought. Someplaces money  and property is devided equally unless one or the other had it prior to a marriage. Unless of-course you live in VA. Look at the state flag. May be wrong but thats what I had always thought.

               

               Good Luck,

              Blackie.                           

                truecritic's avatar - PirateTreasure
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                Posted: July 21, 2006, 12:24 pm - IP Logged

                Since it is cash you are giving - he could always bury it in the backyard and use it just when he needs to. Of course, who knows, he might want to share it with his wife - divorce or no divorce in the future.

                  Raven62's avatar - binary
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                  Posted: July 21, 2006, 12:55 pm - IP Logged

                  For a definitive answer one should consult with an Attorney that specializes in such matters from the State in which the giftee resides.

                  In most states, whether they follow a community-property or equitable-distribution scheme, the property that each spouse owned before the marriage, as well as property given to or inherited by one spouse during the marriage, remains that spouse's separate property. It may, however, be considered as part of the total circumstances in determining a fair allocation of the marital property.

                  In addition, if non-marital property is not kept separate from marital property, it may lose its separate characterization and become subject to division.

                    BaristaExpress's avatar - BaristaExpressMX zpsfb0d8b5d.png
                    Magnolia, Delaware
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                    Posted: July 21, 2006, 10:10 pm - IP Logged

                    A decent, moral person would report it to the IRS, that's who. Also, there are circumstances where the donee can agree to pay the gift tax, so it is not correct the donor is solely responsible for this tax.

                    Only a person who's not so bright would pay taxes on something when they don't have too by law/ tax code. I never could understand anyone with that type of mentality!

                    Who says anyone who pays just what they have to pay without over paying taxes is any less DECENT or MORAL than you Jorli D (Holier than thou)? If you think for one minute that by you over paying taxes makes you a decent and moral person than anyone else, I SAY YOU'RE NOTHING BUT A F_ _ L that's soon parted from their money! And yes, the the person who receives the gift can pay the taxes, but not many if any do! Besides the taxes have to be paid in advance before such gift (of taxable amount 10K or above) can given! So that tells me if the receiver of said gift can pay those taxes on said gift before receiving the gift, why would they need said gift in the first place? That's why 99.9 percent of the time the giver of the gift pays all taxes due on said gift before giving the gift!

                    Plus if the donor of the gift pays the tax on the gift, the person who receives said gift doesn't have to tack it on to their income at the end of the year when they file their taxes! Why? Because the tax has already been paid on the gift by the donor! Now the donor has a tax write off at the same time, because of the taxes they paid on said gift! Nothing like giving a Friend or family member a gift and getting another tax deduction at the same time! Now that's AMERICAN WAY! You Gotta Love It!

                    Keep dreaming the impossible dream, it just may come true! Thumbs Up

                      Clairvoyance's avatar - eye storm.jpg

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                      Posted: July 21, 2006, 10:27 pm - IP Logged

                      Since it is cash you are giving - he could always bury it in the backyard and use it just when he needs to. Of course, who knows, he might want to share it with his wife - divorce or no divorce in the future.

                      Exactly If there is no paper trail as in putting it into a bank etc. Then one can say what money? I'm not sticking up for either party. All I am saying is people do it all the time! And Lawyers can't find money that has no paper trail as far as they are concerned what money? If they can find it .....Its not there!

                        Jorli D's avatar - nw saucyelf2.jpg
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                        Posted: July 21, 2006, 10:57 pm - IP Logged

                        A decent, moral person would report it to the IRS, that's who. Also, there are circumstances where the donee can agree to pay the gift tax, so it is not correct the donor is solely responsible for this tax.

                        Only a person who's not so bright would pay taxes on something when they don't have too by law/ tax code. I never could understand anyone with that type of mentality!

                        Who says anyone who pays just what they have to pay without over paying taxes is any less DECENT or MORAL than you Jorli D (Holier than thou)? If you think for one minute that by you over paying taxes makes you a decent and moral person than anyone else, I SAY YOU'RE NOTHING BUT A F_ _ L that's soon parted from their money! And yes, the the person who receives the gift can pay the taxes, but not many if any do! Besides the taxes have to be paid in advance before such gift (of taxable amount 10K or above) can given! So that tells me if the receiver of said gift can pay those taxes on said gift before receiving the gift, why would they need said gift in the first place? That's why 99.9 percent of the time the giver of the gift pays all taxes due on said gift before giving the gift!

                        Plus if the donor of the gift pays the tax on the gift, the person who receives said gift doesn't have to tack it on to their income at the end of the year when they file their taxes! Why? Because the tax has already been paid on the gift by the donor! Now the donor has a tax write off at the same time, because of the taxes they paid on said gift! Nothing like giving a Friend or family member a gift and getting another tax deduction at the same time! Now that's AMERICAN WAY! You Gotta Love It!

                        Barista are you feeling a bit sensitive? I never called you a name, but apparently the shoe fits.  The only fool is those who find comfort in stealing, and that's what evading taxes is. Then when they're caught, they go kicking and screaming like the fools they are.

                        Please inform me how someone doesn't have to pay taxes when they don't have too.  What you really mean is someone doesn't have to pay taxes if they think they can scheme and get away with it.  That still makes them a thief. 

                        As far as me being holier than thou, that's your right to feel that way, but I prefer to call myself moral, a part of character you lack.

                        You talk a good game Barista, but I'm not in the mood to listen to your bantering and pompous attitude.  You don't have to like my comments and I don't give a rat's behind if you do or not.  I've stated my position on this and I am not asking you for your approval. I hope you didn't waste too much of your pathetic life trying to call me out. 

                          AlecWest's avatar - alec
                          Vader, Washington
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                          Posted: July 23, 2006, 9:01 pm - IP Logged

                          I wanted to make certain of something.  Is the gift tax assessed "per taxpayer" or "per gift?"  For example, if I decided to make a $10,000 gift to one friend, a $10,000 gift to a second friend, and a $10,000 gift to a third friend, would I be exempt from paying a gift tax - or would the IRS say that only the first gift was exempt and other gifts over $10,000 per year by the same taxpayer were taxable under the gift tax?

                          For what it's worth, there are a number of ways to give a friend more money that would be under the IRS's radar screen.  Example.  Let's say I have a friend named Bob.  And I want to give him a million dollars.  Fine.  I collect my lottery winnings and open up a bank account in my name only, depositing one million dollars into it.  And, I ask the bank to give me a generic ATM card (no VISA or MC logo).  When I receive the card, I give it to Bob and say "Go for it."  Bob wouldn't be able to get all of it at once.  But, he'd be able to get a minimum of $200 a day from any ATM machine - as well as additionally using it at stores and gas stations that accept generic ATM cards.  As far as the IRS would know, I'd be banking my own money and withdrawing my own money.  And as long as Bob didn't do something stupid like depositing over $5,000 into his own bank account in one deposit (banks report all transactions over $5,000 to the IRS), he'd get the money and no one would pay the gift tax.

                          A more ingenious way of doing things would be to fly to Germany with Bob, visit any DeutschBank office, and buy several bearer bonds in small denominations - giving them to Bob.  Bob opens up a safe deposit box - putting most of them in the box - but cashing in a few thousand dollars worth of them.  Then he goes to a local American Express office and converts the cash into traveler's checks - which Bob flies home with.  He uses the traveler's checks as needed ... then takes another German vacation to cash in more bearer bonds when funds get low.

                          On July 21, 2006, BaristaExpress wrote:

                          So anything below that amount is not taxable, unless you choose to report it to the IRS as income or a gift! But who would do such a thing?

                          To which Jorli D replied:

                          A decent, moral person would report it to the IRS, that's who.

                          A decent, moral government, wouldn't attempt to tax a man twice for the same money - just because he wishes to be generous with it.

                            guesser's avatar - Lottery-017.jpg

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                            Posted: July 23, 2006, 9:26 pm - IP Logged

                            WHY ??

                             

                            WHY is that indecent or immoral to not report it (gifting) lottery winnings, or anything else for that matter ?

                             

                            If you win a jackpot, pay taxes, then gift some out, and they have to claim it, isn't that double-taxation ? 

                             

                            Do you know the Gov't takes about 55% of lottery winnings before you (we) ever see them ?   THAT is immoral.

                            Win 100 million, take home 45 million, 55 million to the Gov't, that's just wrong.

                             

                            8 co-workers in Nebraska won/split 365 million, after all was said and done, they each got 15.5 million, that's 128 million out of 365 million, I'd say that's nuts to have to pay 241 million in 'taxes'. 

                            To those that say 'I can't complain because I still end up with 45 mill', let me ask, what would you do if the gov't took 55 percent of every one of your paychecks ? 

                              AlecWest's avatar - alec
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                              Posted: July 23, 2006, 9:45 pm - IP Logged

                              BTW, someone earlier suggested that a person could deduct the gift tax from their own income tax at the end of the year.  This is not true ... which is why it constitutes being taxed twice for the same money.  For the proof, visit the IRS FAQ page on gift/estate taxes and scroll down to the question:

                              Q: May I deduct gifts on my income tax return?

                              http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=108139,00.html